the "thrill of sneaking around" myth

[norajane]

norajane, i dont remember you being this bitter in the past, has something happened?

 

Well, I spent 2 hours on the phone tonight with one of my girlfriends whose bf just broke up with her because he freaked out about something innocent she did yesterday. His ex-wife had cheated on him, and he had been SAYING he's over it, but the trust and jealousy issues he's suffering from are all still messing up his life 3 years later...and now messing up my friend's life because she fell in love with him.

 

So, yes, I'm seeing that cheaters just don't seem to "get" what they're doing to the people they married, the people that love them, and, honestly, they can't see past their own selfish desires to consider how their actions affect other people now, and in the future.

[sadbuttrue]

i agree norajane, cheating is very ugly. i am sorry your friend is being punished for someone else's mistakes.

[bish]

Well, I spent 2 hours on the phone tonight with one of my girlfriends whose bf just broke up with her because he freaked out about something innocent she did yesterday.

 

Was it really innocent? I'm not doubting what you say, but you have to look at it from the bf's point of view.

 

When you have experienced being with a cheater, you know what signs to look for in future mates. its possible that your friend did something that threw up a red flag to her bf. Thats the thing about being cheated on...it makes you very cautious and more strong willed to not put up with similar behaviors in future relationships.

 

Its none of our business, but any chance of saying what this "innocent" act was?

[HappyAtLast]

it would be interesting, just for the sake of conversation, to know what the "innocent act" was.

 

I, like you was betrayed (although many years ago) and I, unlike you, chose to cheat many years later. I have to say though that for the fifteen years that I stayed, after my XW cheated, I did not believe a word that she said. She never knew this, but it is the truth. Makes me glad that I waited fifteen years to enter into another R, as truly, had my XW and I divorced early on, I am afraid that I would have been unable to trust, even in the simplest things.

[serial muse]

Was it really innocent? I'm not doubting what you say, but you have to look at it from the bf's point of view.

 

When you have experienced being with a cheater, you know what signs to look for in future mates. its possible that your friend did something that threw up a red flag to her bf. Thats the thing about being cheated on...it makes you very cautious and more strong willed to not put up with similar behaviors in future relationships.

 

Its none of our business, but any chance of saying what this "innocent" act was?

 

 

That's true, bish, but I will say that I sometimes find myself overreacting to something merely insensitive that my current BF might do by imagining all sorts of cheating-related scenarios - when previously I would have been willing to hear him out before getting pre-emptively upset, or would have had a milder, less relationship-threatening reaction. I have to be very conscious of this reactive state now, and try to rationally calm myself. And I don't always succeed. Partners of people who have been betrayed really do need to be particularly sensitive.

 

I'm not a fan of the victim mentality, but there's no doubt that I've been struggling with trust issues - both in others, and in myself - for the past few years, as a direct result of what happened. Those issues helped destroy one relationship (well, that exBF did his share too ) and have, on occasion, helped threaten my current one. So what norajane says here:

 

So, yes, I'm seeing that cheaters just don't seem to "get" what they're doing to the people they married, the people that love them, and, honestly, they can't see past their own selfish desires to consider how their actions affect other people now, and in the future.

 

is just so deeply true.

 

My exH - the one who cheated - recently contacted me out of the blue as though it was all water under the bridge now. He wants to be "friends." No concept of the extent of the emotional damage he did - he sees it as "we broke up," like people do all the time. But the dissolution of a marriage due to an affair isn't remotely like a college breakup. And he can't process that, because it requires too much introspection.

 

I'm trying to remember what I ever saw in this guy. Needless to say, I firmly shut down all expectations that we'd "hang out."

[Cliche]

There are so many similarities in the OW/MM stories here. And we focus on them, and rightly should. They are warning signs.

 

But there is also simply the truth that no two relationships are alike. Some MM use both women to satisfy their selfish sexual needs. Some MM are truly in love with two women at the same time (it happens). Some MM really do get involved in an A in the expectation that it will end an unhappy marriage. Some MM never plan to fall in love and start an A to begin with...it just happens. Some of the OW/MM relationships eventually work out. Many others don't. And sometimes whether the MM stays in his marriage or leaves, it is not about who he "loves" more, but about a host of other reasons.

 

I did know MM was married when I met him, but he told me he had been separated for 2 years (he wasn't physically separated). I was okay with that, because I had no issues with my ex dating when we were separated, so I assumed the same about this situation.

 

I was not the secret in this relationship. His W was. I have been involved in most aspects of MM's life, including being introduced to friends he has had for half a decade that knew I was his girlfriend, but didn't know he had a W.

 

The pain of being an unwilling participant in a three-way relationship is very heavy and very real. It is getting better now that we're healing since #3 is leaving of her own accord. But I would never ever recommend anyone else go through this, even if my eventual end is that I have my "happily ever after."

 

But I don't think any of this makes me a whore, stupid, self-hating, family wrecking or a host of other ill chosen words. Perhaps it makes me a tad naive, with my head in the clouds. I'll even give you foolish. But there are very few of us--OW or BS--who, when confronted with "true love," think with our logical heads over our aching, yet sometimes joyous and overflowing hearts.

[annabelle75]

There are so many similarities in the OW/MM stories here. And we focus on them, and rightly should. They are warning signs.

 

But there is also simply the truth that no two relationships are alike. Some MM use both women to satisfy their selfish sexual needs. Some MM are truly in love with two women at the same time (it happens). Some MM really do get involved in an A in the expectation that it will end an unhappy marriage. Some MM never plan to fall in love and start an A to begin with...it just happens. Some of the OW/MM relationships eventually work out. Many others don't. And sometimes whether the MM stays in his marriage or leaves, it is not about who he "loves" more, but about a host of other reasons.

 

I did know MM was married when I met him, but he told me he had been separated for 2 years (he wasn't physically separated). I was okay with that, because I had no issues with my ex dating when we were separated, so I assumed the same about this situation.

 

I was not the secret in this relationship. His W was. I have been involved in most aspects of MM's life, including being introduced to friends he has had for half a decade that knew I was his girlfriend, but didn't know he had a W.

 

The pain of being an unwilling participant in a three-way relationship is very heavy and very real. It is getting better now that we're healing since #3 is leaving of her own accord. But I would never ever recommend anyone else go through this, even if my eventual end is that I have my "happily ever after."

 

But I don't think any of this makes me a whore, stupid, self-hating, family wrecking or a host of other ill chosen words. Perhaps it makes me a tad naive, with my head in the clouds. I'll even give you foolish. But there are very few of us--OW or BS--who, when confronted with "true love," think with our logical heads over our aching, yet sometimes joyous and overflowing hearts.

 

Excellent post. The bolded parts really are true. MY story is alot like yours, just minus the happily ever after. Every realtionship is different. I think we all need to rememebr that, OW and BS alike.

[Cliche]

Excellent post. The bolded parts really are true. MY story is alot like yours, just minus the happily ever after. Every realtionship is different. I think we all need to rememebr that, OW and BS alike.

 

Thank you.

 

And I don't have an happily ever after yet. But it is a bit more calming now to know that if we don't get there, it will be due to plain ole' incompatibility instead of feeling that the entire relationship was a lie.

[norajane]

Was it really innocent? I'm not doubting what you say, but you have to look at it from the bf's point of view.

 

When you have experienced being with a cheater, you know what signs to look for in future mates. its possible that your friend did something that threw up a red flag to her bf. Thats the thing about being cheated on...it makes you very cautious and more strong willed to not put up with similar behaviors in future relationships.

 

Its none of our business, but any chance of saying what this "innocent" act was?

 

A work colleague was in town for business - a man she's worked with for 10 years - and they had planned to all go out to dinner that evening. She's a sales VP and always has work dinners like that, and she really wanted to introduce her bf to her co-worker.

 

Her bf was returning home from a business trip of his own that night, but ended up being very late. Bf didn't call her to tell her he'd be late until just before they were all supposed to meet. So she told bf she would go ahead and meet her colleague, and bf could join them when he arrived. Bf totally blew up at her and wanted her to cancel the dinner and just go to his place. She thought he was out of line for yelling at her like that and for expecting her to cancel dinner at the last minute, and refused and told him she'd call him when she got home.

 

She actually did cancel the dinner and just went home. But he wouldn't take her calls that night, and the next day when bf called her, he just told her he was 'done' and broke up with her.

 

And for further background, her bf's ex-wife had an affair with a guy who worked at the Starbucks near their house, which is why they ended up getting divorced when he found out. He married her after she left her previous husband...they had been having an affair together and then she got divorced to marry him.

[Trialbyfire]

But there are very few of us--OW or BS--who, when confronted with "true love," think with our logical heads over our aching, yet sometimes joyous and overflowing hearts.

This is a trap for the unwary. Think with your mind, not your...errr...joyous and overflowing hearts only.

[Tomcat33]

A work colleague was in town for business - a man she's worked with for 10 years - and they had planned to all go out to dinner that evening. She's a sales VP and always has work dinners like that, and she really wanted to introduce her bf to her co-worker.

 

Her bf was returning home from a business trip of his own that night, but ended up being very late. Bf didn't call her to tell her he'd be late until just before they were all supposed to meet. So she told bf she would go ahead and meet her colleague, and bf could join them when he arrived. Bf totally blew up at her and wanted her to cancel the dinner and just go to his place. She thought he was out of line for yelling at her like that and for expecting her to cancel dinner at the last minute, and refused and told him she'd call him when she got home.

 

She actually did cancel the dinner and just went home. But he wouldn't take her calls that night, and the next day when bf called her, he just told her he was 'done' and broke up with her.

 

And for further background, her bf's ex-wife had an affair with a guy who worked at the Starbucks near their house, which is why they ended up getting divorced when he found out. He married her after she left her previous husband...they had been having an affair together and then she got divorced to marry him.

 

 

Just playing devil's advocate here ok? to add a different spin to this story..

 

If her guy was out of town for business and they had not seen each other for a few days/weeks whatever...wouldn't she want to go and see her man instead of going out for dinner with a male co-worker?

No excuse for his blowing up but can kind of see, given the info provided, why it would somewhat bother him that she prefered to go off to dinner with another guy rather than go and see him.

[Tomcat33]

Oh and one more thing...in my experience and in what I see (I work closely with VP types) work related "events" soemtimes even unecessary ones that could very easily be skipped on, tend to take priority over theirr personal relationships. Now I know it is smart business strategy to attend as many work social events as possible when you get to that level of seniority in the corporate word, but sometimes you have to choose what's more important your marriage to your work or your marriage to your partner?

 

Norajane

 

Again, this is just an observation but your friend's guy blowing up due to his scars from a past infidelity, could be less about that and more about the dynamic that is happening in the current rel. with this VP woman who needs to be relaly focused on work?

[norajane]

Just playing devil's advocate here ok? to add a different spin to this story..

 

If her guy was out of town for business and they had not seen each other for a few days/weeks whatever...wouldn't she want to go and see her man instead of going out for dinner with a male co-worker?

No excuse for his blowing up but can kind of see, given the info provided, why it would somewhat bother him that she prefered to go off to dinner with another guy rather than go and see him.

 

They had just spent the whole weekend together. It was only a couple of days that he was away.

 

And she didn't prefer to go off to dinner with the other guy rather than see her bf - that was not the scenario. She would have seen her bf if he had joined them for dinner when he arrived - he'd just be late in joining them. And she would have gone home with him after dinner.

[norajane]

Oh and one more thing...in my experience and in what I see (I work closely with VP types) work related "events" soemtimes even unecessary ones that could very easily be skipped on, tend to take priority over theirr personal relationships. Now I know it is smart business strategy to attend as many work social events as possible when you get to that level of seniority in the corporate word, but sometimes you have to choose what's more important your marriage to your work or your marriage to your partner?

 

Norajane

 

Again, this is just an observation but your friend's guy blowing up due to his scars from a past infidelity, could be less about that and more about the dynamic that is happening in the current rel. with this VP woman who needs to be relaly focused on work?

 

He owns his own $40M a year company. I don't think the problem is her job responsibilities - he's got plenty of his own. They aren't married. They've been dating 6 months.

 

And in this case, they arranged dinner specifically so she could introduce her bf to her colleague that she's known 10 years. It wasn't an 'unnecessary' dinner. It was her introducing her bf to the people in her life.

[Tomcat33]

He owns his own $40M a year company. I don't think the problem is her job responsibilities - he's got plenty of his own. They aren't married. They've been dating 6 months.

 

And in this case, they arranged dinner specifically so she could introduce her bf to her colleague that she's known 10 years. It wasn't an 'unnecessary' dinner. It was her introducing her bf to the people in her life.

 

 

Oh ok well that's a different story, the way you had explained it before it didn't sound like this.

 

I don't see why he blew up either then. Furthermore I'm missing the connection of how being cheated on in the past has anything to do with him simply being in a foul mood because his trip got delayed and blew up on your gf!?!? sounds like he is just a sourpuss :-)

[Tomcat33]

Oh and one more thing I just thought of:

 

If the whole point of the dinner was for her man to meet all of her colleagues, what was the point of her going anyway to the dinner if her guy couldn't be there????

[Trialbyfire]

Well no TC. When you've been cheated on, you will find that there are irrational trigger points. Each person's trigger points will differ.

 

It doesn't excuse the behaviour. It just is.

[norajane]

Oh and one more thing I just thought of:

 

If the whole point of the dinner was for her man to meet all of her colleagues, what was the point of her going anyway to the dinner if her guy couldn't be there????

 

He COULD be there. He was just going to be LATE getting there. So he wanted her to cancel the whole thing instead of spending any time alone with her colleague. And she DIDN'T actually have dinner alone with him. She canceled it - as I explained earlier, but was so mad at bf for being such an ass toward her, that she didn't want to see him that night after their conversation. And she did call her bf when she got home, but he wouldn't take her calls.

 

I don't see why he blew up either then. Furthermore I'm missing the connection of how being cheated on in the past has anything to do with him simply being in a foul mood because his trip got delayed and blew up on your gf!?!? sounds like he is just a sourpuss :-)

 

I was asked what this innocent thing was that she did, and I explained it. I chose not to detail what he said when he blew up at her. What he said made it very clear what his issues were about - jealousy and mistrust.

[Tomcat33]

Well no TC. When you've been cheated on, you will find that there are irrational trigger points. Each person's trigger points will differ.

 

It doesn't excuse the behaviour. It just is.

 

 

Oh I know that all too well, I have been cheated on many years ago and I know my triggers too. I was cheated on with my bf's coworker.

 

 

Now back to NJs friend's situation:

 

Again, at some points you say she was going out with co-workers at other points you say she and her male co-worker alone.

 

In all honesty I don't know that I would want my boyfriend going out to dinner with his female co-worker of 10ys alone either, but then again I was like that before I was cheated on too...As I would not do that either to my partner because I can appreciate there are certian situations that will inspire jealousy mistrust and all sorts of negative emotions on my partner, so why even go there?

 

What I would do is make sure my man is available to meet this coworker and only go through with the plan when I know for a fact my man is available, I wouldn't go through with my dinner plans with my co-worker, simply because my prority is NOT my co-worker it's my man.

 

AS per the he could be there, he was coming back from a trip maybe he was just tired and wanted to go home instead of out to entertain people?

[Tomcat33]

So he wanted her to cancel the whole thing instead of spending any time alone with her colleague. And she DIDN'T actually have dinner alone with him. She canceled it - as I explained earlier, but was so mad at bf for being such an ass toward her, that she didn't want to see him that night after their conversation. And she did call her bf when she got home, but he wouldn't take her calls.

 

Well by that point they had prob faught about it and initially may have given the impression she was going anyway and that is what made their fight escalate. By the time she cancelled the dinner the fight had already gone down.

 

I mean if all it took was her getting on the phone and saying "you can't make it? I will not go with my co-worker to dinner"and her man blew up anyway then he has anger management issues not residual unresolved issues of a past infidelity.

 

See what I'm saying? The fight prob escalated because she prob fought him on making it out to this dinner and eventually made it seem like she would go anyway...I dunnow you kind of see how the fight happened.

 

It sounds more of what typically happens in couples than it is a person who was scarred for life because he was cheated on.

[Tomcat33]

Question:

 

If you are aware of your patner's past and you know that cetain scenarios might be triggers why go there?

 

See either way I think when you take on a relatioship with someone you also accept thier scars from their past, do you want to work on them with him or do you want to do things that will only aggravate their mistrust?

[norajane]

Well by that point they had prob faught about it and initially may have given the impression she was going anyway and that is what made their fight escalate. By the time she cancelled the dinner the fight had already gone down.

 

I mean if all it took was her getting on the phone and saying "you can't make it? I will not go with my co-worker to dinner"and her man blew up anyway then he has anger management issues not residual unresolved issues of a past infidelity.

 

See what I'm saying? The fight prob escalated because she prob fought him on making it out to this dinner and eventually made it seem like she would go anyway...I dunnow you kind of see how the fight happened.

 

It sounds more of what typically happens in couples than it is a person who was scarred for life because he was cheated on.

 

Uh-huh. And how do you interpret "so are you going to f*ck him after dinner?"

[Tomcat33]

Uh-huh. And how do you interpret "so are you going to f*ck him after dinner?"

 

 

I intepret that as an issue your partner has not got a grasp on yet and therefore it's up to you to avoid certains situations for the wellbeing of your new union. But again that's just me.

 

If the dinner was soley for the purpose of the two meeting, there is no point of fricction you partner can't make it for whatever reason? cancel the dinner.

[norajane]

Question:

 

If you are aware of your patner's past and you know that cetain scenarios might be triggers why go there?

 

See either way I think when you take on a relatioship with someone you also accept thier scars from their past, do you want to work on them with him or do you want to do things that will only aggravate their mistrust?

 

My point in bringing up my friend is that cheaters don't get that when they cheat, they are damaging a person, not just in that relationship, but in future relationships. So when partners have to walk on eggshells and change their whole lives around to accommodate a BS's triggers, they are being affected by the fallout of the affair, long after it is over. This is not something cheaters think about when they start their affairs - they do not think of how their cheating will have repercussions long after their marriage is toast.

[norajane]

I intepret that as an issue your partner has not got a grasp on yet and therefore it's up to you to avoid certains situations for the wellbeing of your new union. But again that's just me.

 

And that's my point. BS's have problems long after the affair is over, and long after their marriage is over. Cheaters don't get that. They don't get the long lasting damage they inflict.