The honeymonn is over

[quankanne]

salty chocolate balls, anyone?

 

wog – the hardest thing you're ever going to do is be married, because frankly, no matter how much you care about the other person, you still don't know him or her, or what his/her response is going to be to X issue. The best thing you can do for yourself and your relationship is to start with a clean slate. Yes, she's a female, yes you have a history of mistrust of females, but you've got to make that leap of faith based on "she has given me the best of herself (the pre-nup, the pre-wedding jitters, etc), that she deserves to not be my whipping boy for my fears." Not an easy thing to do, and it'll take intervention (counselling), but it can be done.

 

not everyone is wired for cheating on their SO/partner, most often because they don't want to be done dirty themselves and because they have a vested interested in that particular relationship.

 

what was it about her that attracted you to her (non-physical)? If it was something about her personality that led you to understand she was capable of great loyalty, work with that ... let that be your lifeline, instead of your worries of her screwing you over just because she can.

 

my guess is that if she jumped through hoops before marriage AND she stuck around while you wigged out over certain issues, she's committed to the relationship because she trusts in the love she has for you. Follow her example; don't push away the very thing that could help you heal ...

[lonelybird]

Woogle

 

Please bear me if I sound harsh, but I think this will help a little

 

Hatred is contagious. Your mom hate men, then the hatred passed to you, now you hate women in general. Personally I think you are punishing your wife by what other women did to you, and you let the past to ruin your future.

 

Prenup is a form of distrust, no trust, no love. It is hurt!

 

Don't want to have a child with the woman in you life, is HURT. As a woman, can not accept the fact that the man who claims love her, not want a child with her. If you don't want to punish her, then what are these?

 

Considering forgiveness, maybe we should ask ourselves, WHAT DID MAKE THE HATRED DIFFICULT TO GO? It is because our EGO got hurt, then we hold on our ego, the more tighter we hold onto it, the more hurt we get and hurt others. Ego is selfish and self-centered, belongs to flesh.

 

Think of Jesus, he could sacrifice his life for all human being, then how cannot we crucify our ego???? after crucify our ego, it is FREEDOM. Spirit rule your life, not ego anymore. But if we hold on our ego, it would be lonely life.

 

I really think you should do some serious thinking, your wife is a blessing to you, please don't ruin it.

[Flyin in Clouds]

Earlier last night my wife and I had a fight over kids. I told her that divorce can be very hard on children and I don't know if I want to have children with her because if she decides to walk out on me I won 't get to see my children grow up. She got mad and asked me if I trusted her and I told her that I don't know. That is when she blew it and told that I have no clue what marriage is about and that I need to stop punishing her for what other women have done. Right now we are not even speaking to each other and both of us are too proud to apologize to each other.

 

She blew it? No you blew it. (and I haven't read the whole thread...). So because something bad might happen in the future you're not going to try? Hell, better to never have loved than to have lost? Is that it? Yes, you might get a divorce and not see your kids. BUT you might also NOT get divorced and live happily ever after. Are you going to let fear of failure rule your life?

 

The child could die. It happens. Are you going to let that possibility stop you from having a child?

 

You could get hit by a car tomorrow. Maybe you should stay in bed.

 

Where she's wrong is that she has to take into account your past experience with women - those are going to affect her and her relationship with you. If she had been raped that would color her opinion of men and affect her relationship with you, wouldn't it.

 

Friends of ours decide not to have children. She wantd children, but he has watched his brother die when he was a child and he didn't want to go through that kind of pain again if their child died. So they remained childless. And it's sad because he would have been a good father.

 

Don't let fear of failure cripple you.

 

You could have a child. She could divorce you. The child could die as a teenager in car crash. Are you going to miss out on life because of what might go wrong?

 

Also a female friend of mine, L, had the same distrust of men that you seem to have of women. Her father cheated on her mother, which drover her mother into wild behaviors - doing drugs, pickup any tom, dick or harry that would screw her, ... So L hated all men. We were all scumbags. She stated publicaly that if she got pregnant with a male child she'd have an abortion. Her pre-nup said that in event of a divorce any female children were to stay with her and the male children with the father. She berated him in public and eventually drove him into the arms of another women. Don't let your distrust of women, because of what some women did to you, ruin a good thing.

[Flyin in Clouds]

It seems that even if I am a good and decent husband she will cheat on me and walk out on me.

OK, assume that is true. Someday she might cheat on you and walk out. You going to not enjoy life now? Even worse, suppose she's 100% faithful, for say 10 years and you've grown to love her more than life itself, and then, God forbid, she gets cancer and dies. She didn't walk out or cheat but you've lost her none the less? Or she gets hit by a drunk driver or a meteor fall out of the sky... are you going to ruin the happiness you could have today because something bad can happen in the future? And here's the real kicker. Someday she will die. Maybe you'll die first but someday she's going to die and be gone.

 

Life does not come with guarantees.

 

But life is short. Too short. You better enjoy it while you can. Live for today, and be thankful when you get up in the morning for another day. Thankful you have her in your life.

 

Yet you're so insecure about your marriage and you think she is going to cheat on you. SHE IS NOT GOING TO CHEAT ON YOU.

If she does cheat on you I'm fairly certain you will have driven her to it with all your distrust. She'sll probably divorce your first though.

 

If any man accused me, for no reason, of being a cheater, I would have his balls on a platter.

he didn't say his wife was a cheater. He was afraid she might cheat and or leave him.

 

I remember thinking "well, ALL men are a**holes and they ALL want to cheat. F*** men." I was so anger I couldn't shake it off for days. But eventually I realized it wasn't true ..

Well not to burst your bubble Totoro, but all men do want to cheat. Some of use are willing to make a bargain that goes like this. "If you don't cheat, I won't either". Doesn't mean we don't want to, just means we won't. (unless you do then all bets are off).

 

Nah you were no fool SC..

Art, yes he was. Only fools fall in love. Love makes fools of us all. But would you rather not be a fool and therefor have never experienced loved?

 

Falling in love is a risk. Woggle's wife is taking a big risk with him because of his "issues" with women. She's willing to take that risk. You want it risk free Woggle? Sorry, doesn't work that way.

 

This is a serious cancer that is eating away at him.

That very well may be. Like my friend that destroyed her marriage because of her insecurities about men in general and her fear her husband would turn out like her father.

 

Instead you drag your insecurities into your marraige and its eating away and destroying the very one thing you thought never possible.

Yeah, but don't try to hide your insecurities from your wife. Help her to understand you, and she needs to understand he needs to help you overcome those insecurities and fears, but also accept her that she's not like other women. You need to understand her too.

 

He trusts no women except those who have somehow "proved" themselves to him - as though that were something they should in any way have to do.

whoa... there girl. If a woman isn't willing to "prove" she's trust worthy then I'd bet dollars to donuts she isn't.

 

But he prefers to pre-emptively view 50% of the population as evil,

Well, on that I agree with Woggle 100%. Women are evil. Sometimes they aren't evil enough;) and other times too evil.

[sb129]

 

If everyone had that kind of attitude, nobody would even DATE let alone get married or have kids.

 

Dating/marriage/love is a risky business- we open ourselves up to getting hurt. Sometimes the hurt doesn't happen- alot of the time even!!!

There ARE people out there who will not ever cheat. Men too.

[Island Girl]

I just have a hard time believing that I somehow married the only woman in the world who doesn't think it is ok to cheat on her husband and treat him like crap then blame him for it all. I makes me wonder what the catch is.

 

 

Yeah

 

-- you should have a hard time believing that ---

 

BECAUSE IT ISN'T TRUE!

 

There are plenty of women who do not agree with cheating, would not cheat, don't treat the spouses like crap or blame them for all problems!

 

I am one -- and NOT married to you.

 

You have MAJOR issues. Really.

 

I have thought this from your posts before and have felt sorry for your wife before but not nearly as much as I do right now.

 

She invested in you and pledged her life to you.

 

You did too.

 

What makes your word believable and hers not?

 

There is the same amount of evidence on both sides that either of you would cheat.

 

She could point out MANY men -- many more than women -- who cheat on their wives. But she doesn't look at you and say "you're just like THEM" because you have never given her any reason to think that you are.

 

That is fair right? She shouldn't assume you will cheat because Bill Clinton did.

 

And yet that is what you are doing to her.

 

Not because of her actions. Not for anything she has said or done.

 

But because she is female?

 

Absolutely ridiculous. Couldn't be any more absurd.

 

So she is walking around with this undeserved black mark that is held against her. Awww that is so sweet. --- NOT!

 

You are lucky to have married her. You are lucky to have someone like her who obviously loves you to put up with that attitude as long as she has already.

[luvstarved]

The old question "do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?" comes to mind. Also the term "self-fulfilling prophecy": you mistrust (read "abuse") her until she can't take it anymore and leaves, then you can say "Aha!!! I was RIGHT!" THAT will keep you warm in your old age.

 

Yes you clearly are a misogynist, I have not read all your threads but apparently your mother was a misandrist. So...let's keep the cycle going because it can be rationalized? Or...I am entitled to punish my wife because I was punished?

 

serial muse wrote an excellent post so I won't rehash further.

 

Listen, we know it isn't easy and I think in general people here care a lot and want to see you embrace what should be your happiness. Sounds like you have been through a lot and that stinks, but think about it: by continuing on this path, you essentially continue to let the poisoned people in your past CONTROL your life.

 

Don't you realize that the best way to gain true victory over the wrongs committed against you is to no longer let them affect you?

 

Jesus, I have plenty of problems of my own, but I am sorry to read this evidence that you are sabotaging your own potential happiness. I hope for your sake and your wife's that you will find a way to conquer this.

[Woggle]

This post is old but I think it is very hard for a woman to understand where I am coming from with my trust issues. Women don't know what it feels like to worry that one day you will come and your spouse has left and took the kids with them. They don't know what it feels like to be the best spouse you can be and still have your spouse wake up one day and want to throw you out of the family. Just look at the men on this forum. They put aside their issues and decided to trust a woman and look at what they got for it. I just find it hard to believe that I managed to get one of the very few good women left. I look all around and see men getting screwed and having their hearts ripped out left and right so how can I be sure I won't be the exception. I am sorry if you think this makes me a misogynist but I look around and this is what I see.

[sb129]

This post is old but I think it is very hard for a woman to understand where I am coming from with my trust issues. Women don't know what it feels like to worry that one day you will come and your spouse has left and took the kids with them. They don't know what it feels like to be the best spouse you can be and still have your spouse wake up one day and want to throw you out of the family. Just look at the men on this forum. They put aside their issues and decided to trust a woman and look at what they got for it. I just find it hard to believe that I managed to get one of the very few good women left. I look all around and see men getting screwed and having their hearts ripped out left and right so how can I be sure I won't be the exception. I am sorry if you think this makes me a misogynist but I look around and this is what I see.

 

Woggle thats crazy. Do you think women don't have feelings? That women don't worry that their H may find someone else and leave them to bring up kids alone? (just ONE example of a thousand different hurtful scenarios).

 

There are HUNDREDS of posts on here from women who put their trust in a man and got their hearts ripped out.

 

I know SAME SEX couples both M and F who have had their hearts ripped out.

 

This isn't a GENDER issue, and I really wish you would stop fixating on it as such, its quite concerning.

 

Its a PEOPLE issue. AS long as there are people out there willing to love eachother, a proportion of them will get hurt.... its human nature for SOME of us to do things to hurt our fellow human beings.

 

Of course you see people having their hearts ripped out on LS- its a relationship advice forum. People generally join here when they have problems. Its not a group thats absolutely representative of the entire population.

 

There are MANY good women out there that are good partners and wouldn't ever cheat on their man.....myself, stargazer, polywog, island girl, priscillia, norajane, to name but a few (sorry I know there are more of you, but I am in a hurry)

 

Woggle, you are so focused on the negative "maybes" that you are losing sight of the positives that are REAL.

[Trimmer]

It seems that even if I am a good and decent husband she will cheat on me and walk out on me.

 

I look all around and see men getting screwed and having their hearts ripped out left and right so how can I be sure I won't be the exception.

 

Woggle - somewhere between "she will cheat on me" and being sure your life will be perfectly safe is the vast middle ground where we all live, both men and women. Neither gender bears the sole burden, and neither gender is uniformly squeaky clean.

 

You can generalize and claim that your past justifies demonizing a whole gender, but that's just a dodge - a way of avoiding committing to and working on your relationship. You as an individual, and your wife as an individual, and the life you've chosen to build together.

 

You aren't safe, Woggle. There are no guarantees for anyone. It's a roll of the dice for all of us, men and women. Lock yourself inside, stay in bed with the shades drawn and your pillow over your head. Or go out and take a chance on a world with sharp edges, slippery slopes and danger around some corners.

 

Somewhere between "she will cheat on me" and perfectly safe. Where do you want to live, and how will you find your way there?

[Woggle]

I believe that most women don't have any feelings at all for men. Most women couldn't care less if their husband was killed. In fact they would probably jump for joy because they would be free again.

[lonelybird]

I believe that most women don't have any feelings at all for men. Most women couldn't care less if their husband was killed. In fact they would probably jump for joy because they would be free again.

:laugh: WRONG

[Trimmer]

I believe that most women don't have any feelings at all for men. Most women couldn't care less if their husband was killed. In fact they would probably jump for joy because they would be free again.

I won't even bite here by addressing whether I believe you to be right or wrong. You are using your beliefs about "most women" to avoid dealing with your own relationship, or maybe even, you are using them to sabatoge your own relationship.

 

What do you believe about your wife, in your relationship? That's what matters.

[Island Girl]

I believe that most women don't have any feelings at all for men. Most women couldn't care less if their husband was killed. In fact they would probably jump for joy because they would be free again.

 

And you would be wrong on all counts. Continuously and stubbornly wrong.

 

I don't feel sorry for you for what you are missing out on.

 

You are making your own choices.

 

I feel very sorry for your wife who also pays for your skewed views. I don't know how she stands it.

 

I love my husband but if he steadfastly did not trust me by my words and by demonstration of my actions when I have never given him a reason not to that would be a serious problem.

 

I would put in effort to show him what he needed to see as long as there was also effort on his side to move toward a time when that would be unnecessary.

 

If he was as injudicious and insular as you are, I know our marriage couldn't withstand that.

 

There is just no way I would spend the next 40 to 50 years trying to prove something that exists right in front of him.

[Woggle]

I say this with the utmost respect but in less than 10 years you will probably have an affair or walk out on him because you want to be free again.

[Trimmer]

I say this with the utmost respect but in less than 10 years you will probably have an affair or walk out on him because you want to be free again.

Irrelevant and still avoiding the main point. And redundant, too: we already know you feel this way about all those other women out there...

 

What do you believe about your wife, in your relationship?

[Woggle]

I just got done reading that entire Women's Infidelity book online and it really makes me doubt women in general. I hope my wife is the exception but I will be extra careful from now on.

[lonelybird]

Fear is a reflection. If you want to cheat, then you think your wife probably cheat. SO why do you want to walk out on your wife?

[Island Girl]

I just got done reading that entire Women's Infidelity book online and it really makes me doubt women in general. I hope my wife is the exception but I will be extra careful from now on.

 

Why do you continually seek out, read, and absorb only those items that support your view?

 

There are books out there about women who do not cheat.

 

There are supportive threads on this forum where women have the same vews on cheating that you do.

 

Yet those are tossed by the wayside while you pour over any thread or posts where a man who has been cheated on is responding.

[Woggle]

Every time I read stuff like this my opinion of women becomes lower and lower. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t119896/

[Island Girl]

Every time I read stuff like this my opinion of women becomes lower and lower. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t119896/

 

 

You seem to fail to realize that people come here for advice or help.

 

This isn't the place where you just come and start threads about how wonderful your relationship is. If it is you would not be searching for support.

 

There are members here who have happy loving relationships but, although there may be the occasional humorous post or question - they don't need assistance.

 

And you going on and on reading negative after negative - and only the ones that show what you believe to be true - not the other side at all.

 

You are unreasonable. Unwilling. In need of serious help but too stubborn and entrenched in your head to reach out.

 

So you are going to sit in your black hole - never knowing how great it is to actually enjoy a person who truly loves you - because you blame her for being female.

 

Tunnel vision is what is going on. But you refuse to see it or work on changing it. Even though it is extremely unhealthy for your relationship and you personally.

 

Well, -- when it does fall apart -- you can come back to this thread and read here how just about everyone said they wouldn't put up with how you treat her. And then maybe you'll realize why.

[Trimmer]

Every time I read stuff like this my opinion of women becomes lower and lower. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t119896/

So, Woggle - now it seems just like you are trolling - throwing the same thing out there over and over again without any willingness or interest in having a discussion.

 

We get your point.

 

What are you looking for here? What's your next move?

[sb129]

I believe that most women don't have any feelings at all for men. Most women couldn't care less if their husband was killed. In fact they would probably jump for joy because they would be free again.

 

Last week, I was listening to a talkback show on the radio about widows under the age of 50.

A women whose husband had DIED IN HER ARMS was describing the utterly debilitating grief she experienced afterwards. It made me cry.

If anything happened to my BF, I would be devastated.

 

How dare you make assumptions about and insult those of us who love our SOs, and those people who have sadly loved and lost in such a flippant way.

 

I love my husband but if he steadfastly did not trust me by my words and by demonstration of my actions when I have never given him a reason not to that would be a serious problem.

.

 

Me too. and I would expect someone to eventually have a problem with me if it was me with all the suspicions.

 

I say this with the utmost respect but in less than 10 years you will probably have an affair or walk out on him because you want to be free again.

 

IG replied to that insult with dignity, but I am shocked at such rudeness.

 

This isn't the place where you just come and start threads about how wonderful your relationship is. If it is you would not be searching for support.

 

There are members here who have happy loving relationships but, although there may be the occasional humorous post or question - they don't need assistance.

 

And you going on and on reading negative after negative - and only the ones that show what you believe to be true - not the other side at all.

 

You are unreasonable. Unwilling. In need of serious help but too stubborn and entrenched in your head to reach out.

 

So you are going to sit in your black hole - never knowing how great it is to actually enjoy a person who truly loves you - because you blame her for being female.

 

Tunnel vision is what is going on. But you refuse to see it or work on changing it. Even though it is extremely unhealthy for your relationship and you personally.

 

Well, -- when it does fall apart -- you can come back to this thread and read here how just about everyone said they wouldn't put up with how you treat her. And then maybe you'll realize why.

 

Exactly. Which is what i tried to say in my post too.

 

Woggle, your W is an amazing woman to put up with this kind of insulting attitude.

[Woggle]

I calmed down now but that book had me ready to file for divorce on the spot. I am trying to treat my mariage as the exception but it is really really hard to trust a woman when so many women show that they are not trustworthy.

[serial muse]

I say this with the utmost respect but in less than 10 years you will probably have an affair or walk out on him because you want to be free again.

 

So much for the old, why get mad if it doesn't apply to you argument. Apparently, Woggle, you have stopped talking in silly generalities and have now moved to full-on direct insults. It's really rather cruel - both this comment and the one about women not caring if their men died. I realize you don't get it, because it's part of your pathology. I'm equally sure that you haven't even noticed how tolerant many people here are of what you say to them - they do not respond in kind, and they just try to point out, in a personal way, why what you're saying is so incredibly inaccurate. I think perhaps this tolerance is because it really does feel like you've crossed a line and people are more seriously concerned than angry with you at this point. You should take that to heart.

 

Please, find a new therapist and return to therapy, a man if that makes you feel more comfortable. It's not okay to say these things, and it's worrisome that you're so far removed from understanding that. It doesn't even appear to be on your radar.