_For those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

I forgot to ask:

What are you doing besides meds to cope with the shyness.

Have you looked up EMDR therapy?

Some times I feel that I dont know what to say or for instance I can go so far with asking her questions about wheres shes from and small talk things but I would like to be able to carry out conversations better.

how can I be more "talkative"

Another SA guy here. I'll leave that out of the equation, since there's only so much someone can do about that.

My problem seems to start from this: I'll see a beautiful woman while I'm out, and, while I'm right near her--instead of being spontaneous in the situation, I act out the scenario (of what I would say to her) in my mind. Usually when I do that, I picture them rolling their eyes and walking away. I'm always worried about a girl considering a cold approach "creepy", and while I don't look anywhere near menacing or creepy, I don't want to come off as if I am.

Another thing that seems weird about this is the change in my voice when I want to talk to a woman. I can talk just fine to friends and stuff, but my voice seems to change when I'm preparing to talk to a woman. Even my "hi" sounds kinda weird and that kinda messes with my psyche.

Aside from those mental walls above, my main issue is simply not knowing how to talk to women. Seriously, this has to be my biggest weakness ever. I lack the proper ability to approach a woman with confidence and actually have something interesting to say to them. Of course you can always be basic, but don't women consider that boring? I've read plenty of topics and excerpts from books on this, and I really feel lost at this point.

Is this something that can still be obtained....at 23? I never look at anything as impossible, but the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to feel that being a good communicator to women is unreachable for me. I don't really want to believe that. I really don't understand why I'm like this towards women. It just feels ridiculous. I really feel like this is destroying my social life before I even have a chance at experiencing it.

That really does make me feel better. I mean, really.

 

If what's on offer is a bunch of stuck up bitches who think that the world shines out their ass, then maybe I'm better off alone? I was born this way, I've always been shy...it's not like I suddenly became shy overnight.

 

And I can't change. I'm on medication for anxiety, and while it has helped with the panic attacks, it hasn't cured me of my shyness. That is a personality trait that won't disappear, ever.

Leaning, I'm sorry but I know little about social anxiety.

The others here are providing you better help than I could on this topic.

Be sure that the "stuck up bitches" attitude isn't gonna help you. Some women may hold that attitude, but you need to remain positive through your dating. Negativity never helps with anything in life.

I was once shy like a lot of guys. Alone at 25, I decided I just had to take things into my own hands and start approaching women.

I'd suggest trying to meet women in singles groups, religious and otherwise. You can get into conversation with them and soon it will seem natural to invite one to continue the conversation over a lunch or dinner.

Do a little here, a little there, some more the next weekend, etc. Cold calls. Soon, it won't feel as funny.

TBH, I only did a "cold call" on one or two women, but if it lands you a date, which could lead to many more dates, one is all you need.

A few things

I dont think im attractive

i fear rejection it reinfroces im not attractive to women

Im shy around strangers and have no idea what to say to a women whos a total stranger..i mean i could make small talk for a minute or two but cant fathom having a long interesting convo with a stranger

How do I show sexual interest so that girls don't think I just want to be friends?

I'll take a shot at it.

 

How can I stop being the guy women want to date in a serious LTR? (these are women I know have NSA fun, and I want NSA fun from them, not a LTR)

This thread is more for guys that have a hard time getting dates or attracting women. Many of them would love to have the "problems" you have.

That is great that you have all of that going for you, but like any product that wants to sell itself, you need to find your consumer base and market yourself properly.

 

In truth most women out there are going to be less concerned with your dollar value; they will be interested in your intelligence though, proven time and time again). But more often they will be interested in your ability to socialize. Men with verbal acuity do extremely well with women, in fact all of the sexual addicts that I know that did the multiple women thing are all incredibly good at socializing, scarily so. I am not saying become a sexual addict, but that they clearly developed what worked in order to deceive swaths of women into sleeping with them and carrying on pseudo-relationships with them. A lot of that came with how they marketed themselves.

Indeed, and I said these things not to give myself additional "dollar value" but as a demonstration that I am more certain about my future than most guys my age. I can also be fairly talkative.. it's just finding girls to talk to!

I have to admit I'm a bit hesitant to join "fight against breast cancer" type of groups... as it smells to me of desperation, and also is probably a huge time commitment (I seriously work like 50+ hours in the lab, spend 10+ hours gym related things... and then keep good order/cleanliness in my apartment and don't really eat out.. thus I have very finite free time). But at the same time I agree that that's one place which will be female dominated

Indeed, and I said these things not to give myself additional "dollar value" but as a demonstration that I am more certain about my future than most guys my age. I can also be fairly talkative.. it's just finding girls to talk to!

 

I have to admit I'm a bit hesitant to join "fight against breast cancer" type of groups... as it smells to me of desperation, and also is probably a huge time commitment (I seriously work like 50+ hours in the lab, spend 10+ hours gym related things... and then keep good order/cleanliness in my apartment and don't really eat out.. thus I have very finite free time). But at the same time I agree that that's one place which will be female dominated

Are you of a certain faith?

When I was in college, there were student groups like the Luthern campus group, the Catholic, the Baptist, etc. If you get involved with one of those, they may have activities.

Churches in the larger cities and college towns tend to have singles groups or singles activities.

I'd check those venues.

Looking through my college yearbook, I recall groups like a film club - people would get together to watch old movies, chess club, Mensa as someone mentioned in another thread, speech/debating groups, student govt., there was one on responsible alcohol use, groups involving your field of study (ala the medical society) and of course the political groups (prob. not a good idea as politics can be divisive) etc.

Those might be places where you'd meet young ladies outside of classes.

How do I show sexual interest so that girls don't think I just want to be friends?

Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner, dude.

Can't say I know how to overcome that hurdle.

If you get into conversation with them and say the talk leads to a certain subject, like sports or movies. In the conversation, you could naturally bring up how you like that topic too and there's this classic film or sports game or art fair going on this weekend and would like her to join you....

That might show you want to be more than just friends...

Ask her to go out with you in that way (where it naturally flows with the topic of conversation) instead of just saying that you'd like to go out with her...

*******

Can you try touching? I mean slight or gentle touching.

Like when you talk with a woman one-on-one, hold your hand out and lightly touch her arm. That should send some signals and get attention.

Now, this may be too forward. I dunno. But may be worth trying.

Maybe someone else here can chime in.

I say this bec. I had women do that to me....

< May be a little bold but maybe that's what's needed sometimes.

Wow Floridaman, this is a really good thread!

Even though I am not a male seeking dates some of the advice can be used with a little modification to help females find dates!

Muse mentioned being kind of chubby and feeling like that turns girls off. Well there was a guy that followed me around, very friendly, confident fellow. Not the best looking guy, stuttered if you held eye contact too long, but he was a good conversationalist, fairly intelligent, and quite the friendly one.

I would call him "puppy" because of his habit of following me around. Nevermind that, the things I liked about him were not necessarily his dashing good looks because those didn't exist. The stuttering was a turn off as well, the following me around like a... puppy... was cute but ultimately a needy behaviour.

No, what was attractive about him is that he was friendly, he carried himself well, he would maintain eye contact (I got a hella stare not surprised he would stutter), and well... he exuded a confidence, an air of being assured of himself. That was a turn-on. Too bad he was 23 lol

Floridaman's advice is pretty top notch on this thread. If I follow it all I will have armfuls of bitches in no time

Thanks Floridaman.

From what I've been through, inviting a girl to go somewhere with me may or may not be enough for her to see interest. It really depends on how savvy she is.

I'm starting to get more into touching. I didn't do it at all for a long time but I'm working on it.

But I think the real trick is flirting with my words, and that's something that I have a really hard time with.

How do I show sexual interest so that girls don't think I just want to be friends?

Don't offer to go shopping with them.

I suspect that one of the biggest problems with those guys is that they never approach any women in public. A lot of good women won't use online dating and the only way to meet many of them is to go up to them and start a conversation. This can be very scary for many guys. The first time I did this, I was so nervous. However, I have found that it does get easier after doing it a few times and I feel more confident.

Thanks Floridaman.

 

From what I've been through, inviting a girl to go somewhere with me may or may not be enough for her to see interest. It really depends on how savvy she is.

 

I'm starting to get more into touching. I didn't do it at all for a long time but I'm working on it.

 

But I think the real trick is flirting with my words, and that's something that I have a really hard time with.

For starters, look at her intently while you speak to her. Look straight into her eyes and don't look away. And stand a little closer to her than you would with regular people. Getting inside her space and maintaining eye contact are clear indicators of sexual interest. And remember: she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet.

I don't think it's so much what you say or what you do, but how you say it. Body language is key.

 

For starters, look at her intently while you speak to her. Look straight into her eyes and don't look away. And stand a little closer to her than you would with regular people. Getting inside her space and maintaining eye contact are clear indicators of sexual interest. And remember: she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet.

This is good.

I don't think I did a lot of that when I dated.

A couple of years ago, there was this woman who used to work where I work.

While talking with me at the office printer area, she would stand so that her face was like 3" from mine. Or so it seemed. (Maybe it was 10", but it seemed perilously close !!!)

It drove me crazy. I was married and so was she, but having her stand that close to me while in conversation, that really sent out vibes that she liked me or something. It got me to thinking how I could see going out with her.

That's a critical mistake you're making.

The "hot" ones have lots of choices and guys always going after them.

OTOH what's hot to one guy may be a total dud to another.

I have my own ideas of feminine beauty.

I’ve seen many “I’m a shy guy and can’t get any dates!” type of threads by guys in their late 20s, 30s and 40s who need help.

 

Some of these guys have never asked a girl out or only dated sporadically.

Hmm... maybe because we grew up knowing we should mind our own business and not butt in or hit on others?

I don't think it's so much what you say or what you do, but how you say it. Body language is key.

 

For starters, look at her intently while you speak to her. Look straight into her eyes and don't look away. And stand a little closer to her than you would with regular people. Getting inside her space and maintaining eye contact are clear indicators of sexual interest. And remember: she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet.

Why is this something that most guys (myself included) who have problems dating/getting a girlfriend etc. have trouble understanding or learning? I mean did we miss some big meeting when we were teenagers where they handed out textbooks and gave instructional workshops on this sort of thing? This is something that I've had a problem with for as long as I can remember. The last girl I went on a date with I barely managed to hug her at the end of the second date. Intellectually I understand it (most of the time after the fact), but instinctively it's just not there.

Originally Posted by Floridaman

That's a critical mistake you're making.

The "hot" ones have lots of choices and guys always going after them.

OTOH what's hot to one guy may be a total dud to another.

I have my own ideas of feminine beauty.

You prob. do have your own views.

Personally, I like a variety of women and think women in general are alluring.

By "hot" I'm talking the super-beautiful, attractive, "cheerleader" types or Hooter Girls that get all the guys' attention.

If we were to use a "scale," these would be the 8-10s. Most women are 4-8.

I think I ended up with a 6-8.My profile pic has a pic of me and her in 1997.... See how you would "rate" her. I think I'm a 5-6...

I'd personally recommend shying away from the hotties.

Oh, you may land one but why try?

It's simply a case of supply and demand.

Originally Posted by Floridaman

I’ve seen many “I’m a shy guy and can’t get any dates!” type of threads by guys in their late 20s, 30s and 40s who need help.

 

Some of these guys have never asked a girl out or only dated sporadically.

It's a matter of seeing a girl you like and chatting her up.

That's what I did in HS. And most I think would call her "plain" or "average."

I just wanted someone to date.

Kinda doubt I could have landed one of the "in-crowd" "hotties..."

Hmm... maybe because we grew up knowing we should mind our own business and not butt in or hit on others?

So cowering in the corner at the social function, while all the other guys are talking with the girls, that's a good strategy?

You'd rather stay on the porch while the "big dogs" are out roaming the neighborhood?

So cowering in the corner at the social function, while all the other guys are talking with the girls, that's a good strategy?

I never go to those things anyways, so the gist of the question is lost on me.

You'd rather stay on the porch while the "big dogs" are out roaming the neighborhood?

Some so-called prizes aren't worth winning. If you lose, you lose, but if you win, you REALLY lose.

Originally Posted by Floridaman

So cowering in the corner at the social function, while all the other guys are talking with the girls, that's a good strategy?

I never go to those things anyways, so the gist of the question is lost on me.

There's a guy on enotalone who posted how he went to a social event for singles. Got there, saw the men and women, but wimpered in the corner bec. he was afraid to go up and talk with people.

I was talking about places were men and women interact, like social functions, a get-together after work at a restaurant or bar, a pool party at a friend's home -- one of his friends brings a single female you could talk with - that's how I met a woman I once dated for 2-3 mos. ....

Originally Posted by Floridaman

You'd rather stay on the porch while the "big dogs" are out roaming the neighborhood?

Some so-called prizes aren't worth winning. If you lose, you lose, but if you win, you REALLY lose.

Interesting theory on dating.

You view women as some kind of consolation prize? Or like dating your sister?

Sure. You don't HAVE to apply for that great job. But if you don't put yourself forward, you'll never get the job. People can't read your mind and know you want the job.

Never was a "player" and hated making "cold calls" and "hitting on" women (as you call it).

But at 25, I wasn't just gonna sit around and hope one day to awken and "let love find me..."

After 5 years of purposeful meeting women and going out with them, and trying to win them over with my charms:p, at the "old age" of 30 I met a wonderful "prize" --

She wasn't just some woman I only had eyes for but one who wouldn't return my affections...

Or one that I could see marrying ... but one that WANTED to marry me as well!

Thanks Floridaman.

 

From what I've been through, inviting a girl to go somewhere with me may or may not be enough for her to see interest. It really depends on how savvy she is.

 

I'm starting to get more into touching. I didn't do it at all for a long time but I'm working on it.

 

But I think the real trick is flirting with my words, and that's something that I have a really hard time with.

Flirting with your words... hmm... banter, or wit I think it's called. If a guy can master banter and wit without being a douchbag he's got me hooked bad. I might not want to date him (if he has dealbreaker issues), but its gonna give me fits to not do it.

I don't think it's so much what you say or what you do, but how you say it. Body language is key.

 

For starters, look at her intently while you speak to her. Look straight into her eyes and don't look away. And stand a little closer to her than you would with regular people. Getting inside her space and maintaining eye contact are clear indicators of sexual interest. And remember: she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet.

I can work on the body language thing. Good tips to remember.

As for "she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet." I absolutely hate that concept. During the first few minutes I meet a girl I don't have a clue what I want from her. I'm also most likely focused on making myself not scared of her so I can talk.

Flirting with your words... hmm... banter, or wit I think it's called. If a guy can master banter and wit without being a douchbag he's got me hooked bad. I might not want to date him (if he has dealbreaker issues), but its gonna give me fits to not do it.

I'm not really good at banter. Sometimes it just happens, mostly not.

That's probaly a big reason why I never get anywhere with women. I'm just usually so focused on trying to find something to say.

I can work on the body language thing. Good tips to remember.

 

As for "she's going to evaluate you as a potential BF during the first few minutes you meet." I absolutely hate that concept. During the first few minutes I meet a girl I don't have a clue what I want from her. I'm also most likely focused on making myself not scared of her so I can talk.

Try to remove the fear before you walk up to her, so you don't act so nervous when you meet her.

I'm not really good at banter. Sometimes it just happens, mostly not.That's probaly a big reason why I never get anywhere with women. I'm just usually so focused on trying to find something to say.

Just work on it. The more you engage in idle conversation, you'll get more comfortable doing it and soon, be better at it.

Find something to talk about. Like if you're at some social function, ask her why she's here. Or how she knows the person hosting the event, birthday, etc.

If she says something about her career, start asking her questions about her work/field of study and keep thinking of things you can ask her through what she tells you.

Keep the conversation focused on her. Don't monopolize the conversation by making it about you (I'm sure you know better than to do that).

Let her do most of the talking. She should ask you questions as well as she'll likely get tired of talking about herself, so the conversation will become more interactive.

YOU CAN SAY....

"Yeah, I have a cousin who's studying molecular ..... too"

OR....

"I've traveled to Europe.... What parts did you like best?"

Practice makes perfect.