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Natural Hair in the workplace


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TwinkletOes26

I came across an article just now that stated that african american men and women who wore their hair in its natural state were passed over for promotions and if worn for a job interview were turned down. Now this concerns me bc as an african american female i would like to think if i ever wanted to stop relaxing my hair and wear it naturally i could without discrimination.

 

I dont see why people would discriminate against someone or wearing their hair the way God made it...the whole idea is crazy to me. Is it because people still think that those who wear their hair naturally are making a politcal statement?

 

like this

 

Anywho thoughts comments?

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It seems like a reach.

 

Race aside, the person who looks more well kept gives the impression of being more progressive, more up to date, more successful, more responsible, less overwhelmed.

 

I'm not saying its right or true in any sense. But were talking about created images, first impressions so thats the way it is. Employers, unless you are being interviewed at a grass roots type of business....

 

Are not looking for natural. They may not even be looking for attractive. But some of them do look for what others consider "high maintenance" attributes. Its the market.

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I watched the clip partway, up to the point where it was blatantly obvious the person in the clip, has a major chip on her shoulders, regardless of natural hair or race.

 

All I'm going to say is that corporate north america, has an image to uphold. A man or woman who's got unkempt ankle-length hair, whether clean or not, doesn't uphold the corporate image. Women like myself with long hair down to our waist or arse, wear our hair neatly confined whether it's put up, in a pony-tail or braid. If I were to wear my hair naturally, since it has a wave in it, it would look like I went to work after a hard night of wild sex. No go...

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TwinkletOes26

so is her hair unprofessional http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moJNdDnEVEo&feature=related?

 

I mean as long as its neat shouldnt that be all that matters? or is the issue that its not striaght? Of course if you are nonafrican american your hair is going to b striaghter than someone with an african descendants. I am not talking about a big afro just like how he girl had it in the first video or even in the video above.

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Her hair , in the video, looked great. Appearance is everything in my field and I could say I could represent her. Of course, if she had on a strapless animal print tube top like in the video...she would be considered unemployable.

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It's reliant on the image the corporation is trying to project. I find her hair okay for the line staff but not for someone in the upper management levels. It's about looking polished v. unkempt. Tight curls regardless of race, tends to look unkempt, unless you tone it down in some way.

 

Even with long, straight hair, if you want to be upwardly mobile, you need to keep it confined or cut it off. I never wore my hair unconfined, even though I straightened it more often, than not.

 

There are women who can get away with shoulder length hair, left unconfined and yes, it's usually relatively straight or with some coiffed waves. It's the cut and the natural way their hair grows.

 

Edit - just took a peek at the new clip and much prefer her hair, although she needs a trim, to get rid of some of that fuzzy aura.

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I watched the clip partway, up to the point where it was blatantly obvious the person in the clip, has a major chip on her shoulders, regardless of natural hair or race.

 

All I'm going to say is that corporate north america, has an image to uphold. A man or woman who's got unkempt ankle-length hair, whether clean or not, doesn't uphold the corporate image. Women like myself with long hair down to our waist or arse, wear our hair neatly confined whether it's put up, in a pony-tail or braid. If I were to wear my hair naturally, since it has a wave in it, it would look like I went to work after a hard night of wild sex. No go...

 

Me too! :lmao:

 

I agree with every word.

 

The assistant outside my door occasionally wears her hair natural, but it's still well-kept (i.e., not in dreads) and very clearly worked into a "style."

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TwinkletOes26

~looks around~ stargazer we agree on something :laugh::lmao: its a miracle ...i keed i keed.

 

but you get what im saying i wear my hair in bantu knots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbsLAwCxRO4

 

now her hair is longer than mine (i have shoulder length hair) but this is bascially what it looks like. Wouldnt this be considered a neat style?

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I think the only reason an employer should have any say over what someone does with their own hair would be A: if it is distracting or makes them seem disheveled or irresponsible in someway or B: if it literally affects their job, like say a person who works in a cafeteria or restaurant, waiter or cook, that may choose to wear their hair back or wear a hat (or may be required to) simply for the sake of sanitary purposes.

 

In my opinion none of the videos listed on this thread have anyone who looks unkempt or unbusinesslike (not that I am an expert on businesslike, I am a very casual southern girl, but I think I have a general idea) or distracting , and personally I have always really thought black hair is beautiful (I am a white girl, I have slightly wavy hair..never really straight, never really curly, naturally at least, that tends to be very very dry much like black hair, but definitely is not black hair in it's shape and general texture), ESPECIALLY when it is either natural or in made into the traditional styles like braids, etc. I find those bantu knots especially cool and attractive, by the way. I find it a little bit of a shame that so many beautiful black women straighten their hair all the time, when they might be even more attractive if they didn't.

 

So I think unless someone wether male or female has some crazy huge out of control afro that literally gets in peoples way and may also draw attention when they and their employers really would ideally want attention to be drawn to the quality of their work...I'm all for natural hair.

 

Also, I will note, as I have been on a bit of a TV kick the last month or so, that the new show with Jada Pinket Smith where she plays a nurse has her with natural hair. But in the scenes where she is taking care of patients she has it pulled back into a low pony tail, which I would assume would be to keep it out of her character's face and keep her on her game and focused and also for sanitary reasons around patients. But in the scenes in the hospital where her shift is over or she is in an office doing work that is not treating patients or when she's at home with her daughter she tends to have it just down natural and it is very beautiful.

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Long hair is an occupational hazard in my job, and its a requirement that it is tied back and neat.

 

Failure to comply would mean a warning. Nobody I have ever worked with has ever had a problem with it.

 

How your hair is kept is just an extension of a dress code- lots of workplaces have dress codes.

 

For the same reason, I can't wear a watch or arm jewellery, and if I got really technical about it I should only really wear my wedding band and tape it up.

 

If you do a job that requires you to dress/look/groom a certain way, bucking the trend isn't going to do you any favours.

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Ideally an employer should have no say about your hair style.

But what you look like and how you present yourself to your employer are key factors between hire or not.

 

An employer also should disregard tatoos. But they dont. Fair isnt going to get someone a job.

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~looks around~ stargazer we agree on something :laugh::lmao: its a miracle ...i keed i keed.

 

but you get what im saying i wear my hair in bantu knots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbsLAwCxRO4

 

now her hair is longer than mine (i have shoulder length hair) but this is bascially what it looks like. Wouldnt this be considered a neat style?

 

It's neat, but it's a "young" style. You won't get past secretary/assistant roles with that. If you're looking to move up, something more polished is required. You have to look like you're ready to face people in the boardroom, not the break room for support staff.

 

Just like you have to dress for the job you want (not the one you have), your hair also has to look the part.

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p.s. Twinkle,

 

If you wear your hair in Bantu knots and they look pretty much like the girl in the video...I don't know how those are styled, I mean how it is done, but it looks to me just eyeballing it that they are pretty secure kind of like little ballet buns, just more of them, instead of just one in the back. And I would consider that about as "neat" as you can get, meaning the hair is pulled back and secure so it doesn't get in your face or anybody elses who may bump into you or whatever.

 

It is not too visually outlandish either. It's not a typical American hairstyle ,but it's not totally out there...meaning if some stranger (who was not a total shameless racist) looked at you and had never seen a hairstyle like that before, they may either say in their mind, "hmmm, that is a funny hair style, never seen anything like that before, not sure I like it"...or they may say like me, "wow that is really a lovely hairdo"...but either way they are literally going to take a few seconds to think it through and then their mind will turn to something else (unless they've got the hots for you or something ; ). So in a work situation, it SHOULD pose no problem whatsoever.

 

I really hate to say this because although I am not a racist and am all for equality in everything, am usually one to say to people, at least think it through before immediately "pulling the race card"...calling something racism. Really think it through and then if you are sure about it, speak your mind, but just think for a minute about the real issue, this particular issue, whatever it is. As a white person, I feel threatened sometimes that some (not all by any means, not most, but a small portion) black people may assume I'm racist simply because I am pale until I prove to them I'm not...kind of guilty until proven innocent. Only I most likely won't get the chance to do that, because most likely I will only become friendly with black people that do not have that mindset...being a shy person and all and of course people with that mindset would probably be reluctant to be friends with me as a white person as much as I am uncomfortable around them. I understand where the anger and pain comes from, only there is not much I can do about it.

 

And I think that there are sometimes in our country when we are silent about wrongs having to do with race when we really should be speaking up (both black and white people) and other times there are times when something really was not about race in the truth of the matter that God sees, but will be portrayed as such anyway because of hype, and just because emotions get charged...and I feel like sometimes that does more harm to race relations than good.

 

I feel it's really important to express indignation about things that really are wrong...and not just express anger about things that are wrong through other things that really weren't so wrong, but can be made to look that way. Does that make sense? It's kind of like when you discipline a child...you should not discipline children for a true accident, because they will learn they are not allowed to make mistakes and they will become anxious children, and basically that they are just bad for being who they are. But if you discipline them for things they really did wrong intentionally, and they knew were against the rules, but they did anyway...then they learn right from wrong and that their are consequences, but they also know they are not bad or stupid people, they just need to try to do the right thing.

 

Not that we should all treat eachother like children,but you get what I mean?

 

Anyway I was getting to the hair stuff....what I was getting at is that there is nothing wrong, unbusiness like or distracting about this hairstyle ...and I hope you don't encounter this, but if you do encounter someone, a boss or coworker saying something about your hair, like they don't think it is appropriate for work...In my mind it could be nothing else but racism.

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Ideally an employer should have no say about your hair style.

.

 

Unless its for hygiene/ hazard reasons?

In those kind of jobs (healthcare, the food industry etc) I think they have every right to expect people to comply with the dress codes (which include hair).

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yes sb, I think a few of us have mentioned that. If you have a job where you need to wear your hair back and neat for the sake of safety of others, or your own safety (healthcare, food business, factory jobs, firefighters, construction possibly, maybe law enforcement even, etc.), it's completely understandable that there is a dress code, including hair, and it should be complied with.

 

But I think what we are talking about here is jobs that do not have a physical element most of the time that puts anyone in danger...like secretarys, or any sales job, or business men and women, accountants, real estate agents...there are probably as many jobs that do not have a physical element that requires a certain hair dress code , as jobs that do. And in some of these jobs people are expected to dress very formally and to look their best (as long as they don't look too awesome, right, as in sexually attractive,to be distracting or not be taken seriously, although in some cases, that might actually be an advantage)...so actually I think it's a pretty big deal if certain people get to decide WHAT exactly counts as looking "professional".

 

We get accustomed to certain things in a culture, whatever our culture is, and then when we see something different we can assume that it is one way, when really in their culture it is seen a totally different way.

 

If a black woman wears her hair natural, but in a neat and attractive way, for it to then be considered unprofessional simply because it is not what OUR culture is accustomed to...that is blatant racism if I have ever seen it.

 

It is basically saying that you as you are, are not good enough. Now yes people, especially women, of ALL races, will put in a lot of time and effort to looking good, hair included. But many white women simply wash, condition, and dry their hair. Then brush it, use a little mouse or hairspray and fool around a little with it, and that's basically it. I have recently had more trouble with my hair and it's dryness as it's mentioned (it's always been dry my whole life but seems to have gotten worse lately), but as a white woman I know that depending on how you have it cut and humidity in the air (frizz has been occasionally a problem for me), if you want to get your hair to just look at least DECENT and presentable, maybe not amazing like you just left the salon, it really doesn't take all that much work..maybe a lot more than mean, but.at least comparitively to black women..even though hair care products are getting better and better these days, at least I've heard it still takes a lot of time and trouble to relax hair and get it the way they want it. Or perhaps the way other people want it.

 

To say that a white women can basically wear her hair the way it has grown naturally, what she was born with, with just a little product and taking a few minutes every day..And a black woman cannot do the same, even if the hair is not distracting and looks lovely and is not a safety issue for her particular job...It's saying you're hair as it is, is not good enough, and therefore saying, you as you are are not good enough, which is racism, plain and simple.

 

Now I don't know about the Bantu knots looking young. I guess they do look a little funky and young, but of course I am not of the belief that there are rules about that like what looks young and what doesn't. (my mom has always had beliefs like that, to me it's kind of silly like wearing white shoes after labor day, or NOT wearing them?)...However if your employer would be more happy with you wearing a different style, I would compromise and wear your hair in another natural style that may look more grown-up. In this economy, and if you like your job, I would not risk losing it over hair, even if it really is about something bigger. But at least stand up by wearing it either in a more subdued traditional african style, or just wearing it down naturally curly, without relaxing it, but keeping it neat and not too too long or big. then you can keep your job and your integrity.

 

And I don't know how long it takes to do the knots or who does them for you, or if you can do them yourself and how long you keep them in for..but you could possibly wear them on weekends or vacations etc. and when you go out.

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Ideally an employer should have no say about your hair style.

 

What about that employer's clients, customers, and other contacts?

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What about that employer's clients, customers, and other contacts?

 

I would think they should have even less to do with it.

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I would think they should have even less to do with it.

 

Well in an ideal world, yes, but the world of business and employment just doesn't work like that.

 

Society on the whole expects certain standards of grooming from certain professions- it may be right it may be wrong, but its THERE.

 

I am a dentist in a cosmetic dental surgery.

Would you still see me as a patient if my teeth were yellow, crooked and I had a missing front tooth?

I could still do the job just as well if I did, but I bet your bottom dollar I would lose a HUGE amount of my clients if I let my teeth get to that state, as their perception of me being able to deliver good dental care to them would change.

 

By the same token, our reception staff are critical to our client base. We cater to a certain area of the market, and the receptionists are usually the first people any new clients see.

We expect our reception staff to be well groomed and not wear anything too "extreme"- we have a professional reputation to uphold and certain things (for example dreads, overly revealing clothing etc etc) do not fit in with our marketing model.

Conversely, our reception staff would look very out of place working in a music store or a funky clothing store.

 

Exclusive? Yes. Personal? Not at all- its business, and at the end of the day, as harsh as it may seem, employers are PRIMARILY concerned about making money, not massaging egos.

Usually an employer has a better idea of how their business is going to make money than their employees, and has a right to expect their employees to conform to their idea of their own successful business model.

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yes sb, I think a few of us have mentioned that. If you have a job where you need to wear your hair back and neat for the sake of safety of others, or your own safety (healthcare, food business, factory jobs, firefighters, construction possibly, maybe law enforcement even, etc.), it's completely understandable that there is a dress code, including hair, and it should be complied with.

 

But I think what we are talking about here is jobs that do not have a physical element most of the time that puts anyone in danger...like secretarys, or any sales job, or business men and women, accountants, real estate agents...there are probably as many jobs that do not have a physical element that requires a certain hair dress code , as jobs that do. And in some of these jobs people are expected to dress very formally and to look their best (as long as they don't look too awesome, right, as in sexually attractive,to be distracting or not be taken seriously, although in some cases, that might actually be an advantage)...so actually I think it's a pretty big deal if certain people get to decide WHAT exactly counts as looking "professional".

 

We get accustomed to certain things in a culture, whatever our culture is, and then when we see something different we can assume that it is one way, when really in their culture it is seen a totally different way.

 

If a black woman wears her hair natural, but in a neat and attractive way, for it to then be considered unprofessional simply because it is not what OUR culture is accustomed to...that is blatant racism if I have ever seen it.

 

It is basically saying that you as you are, are not good enough. Now yes people, especially women, of ALL races, will put in a lot of time and effort to looking good, hair included. But many white women simply wash, condition, and dry their hair. Then brush it, use a little mouse or hairspray and fool around a little with it, and that's basically it. I have recently had more trouble with my hair and it's dryness as it's mentioned (it's always been dry my whole life but seems to have gotten worse lately), but as a white woman I know that depending on how you have it cut and humidity in the air (frizz has been occasionally a problem for me), if you want to get your hair to just look at least DECENT and presentable, maybe not amazing like you just left the salon, it really doesn't take all that much work..maybe a lot more than mean, but.at least comparitively to black women..even though hair care products are getting better and better these days, at least I've heard it still takes a lot of time and trouble to relax hair and get it the way they want it. Or perhaps the way other people want it.

 

To say that a white women can basically wear her hair the way it has grown naturally, what she was born with, with just a little product and taking a few minutes every day..And a black woman cannot do the same, even if the hair is not distracting and looks lovely and is not a safety issue for her particular job...It's saying you're hair as it is, is not good enough, and therefore saying, you as you are are not good enough, which is racism, plain and simple.

 

Now I don't know about the Bantu knots looking young. I guess they do look a little funky and young, but of course I am not of the belief that there are rules about that like what looks young and what doesn't. (my mom has always had beliefs like that, to me it's kind of silly like wearing white shoes after labor day, or NOT wearing them?)...However if your employer would be more happy with you wearing a different style, I would compromise and wear your hair in another natural style that may look more grown-up. In this economy, and if you like your job, I would not risk losing it over hair, even if it really is about something bigger. But at least stand up by wearing it either in a more subdued traditional african style, or just wearing it down naturally curly, without relaxing it, but keeping it neat and not too too long or big. then you can keep your job and your integrity.

 

And I don't know how long it takes to do the knots or who does them for you, or if you can do them yourself and how long you keep them in for..but you could possibly wear them on weekends or vacations etc. and when you go out.

 

I agree. And hair straightening on tightly coiled hair is very damaging-so we risk our hair falling out just to keep up with those who don't have to do anything at all to it

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On a side note, I am fascinated by the afro caribbean hair industry....

 

It definitely seems very high maintenance! It must cost a fortune to maintain.

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TwinkletOes26

<--- is going to finish her masters program in counseling starting next spring...bc corporate america is kinda like highschool imo i made sure to pick a major that would steer me in positions away from that sector is at all possible.

 

 

As far as batu knots go all i see it as a way to make ones hair curly without use of heat. So only women with straight hair will move up beyond a secretary?Im not concerned because my end goal is to become a counselor in my sector education is the key to move up (ie have my own practice). What about curly haired caucasian women? do they have to straighten their hair to move past being a secretary? Ive seen nonaa women whose hair is VERY tightly coiled and they were in a professional environment.

 

My bantu knots in fact its not really a aa style i learned how to do them from a blonde haired blue eyed girl on youtube:lmao::lmao:...thats just what aa call them. All you do is put buns all over your head when its damp and go to sleep and let it air dry. In the morning youll have curls.

 

Is corporate america prejudice again CURLS...not just black curls but curls in general. This was a discussion on naturally curly and intergrated site that i love so much harmony there. I learned that not just black women have the issue of frizz and worrying about dryness after working out. You know if people got together and talked we would all see that we are not all that different...anywho gets off my we are the world soap box lol....

 

So in order to get up in corporate america you have to have stick straight hair?:confused::confused:

 

im not being funny i wanna hear all povs

 

btw im glad that this has been handled in a mature adult manner no name calling a condescending comments.

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TwinkletOes26
p.s. Twinkle,

 

If you wear your hair in Bantu knots and they look pretty much like the girl in the video...I don't know how those are styled, I mean how it is done, but it looks to me just eyeballing it that they are pretty secure kind of like little ballet buns, just more of them, instead of just one in the back. And I would consider that about as "neat" as you can get, meaning the hair is pulled back and secure so it doesn't get in your face or anybody elses who may bump into you or whatever.

 

It is not too visually outlandish either. It's not a typical American hairstyle ,but it's not totally out there...meaning if some stranger (who was not a total shameless racist) looked at you and had never seen a hairstyle like that before, they may either say in their mind, "hmmm, that is a funny hair style, never seen anything like that before, not sure I like it"...or they may say like me, "wow that is really a lovely hairdo"...but either way they are literally going to take a few seconds to think it through and then their mind will turn to something else (unless they've got the hots for you or something ; ). So in a work situation, it SHOULD pose no problem whatsoever.

 

I really hate to say this because although I am not a racist and am all for equality in everything, am usually one to say to people, at least think it through before immediately "pulling the race card"...calling something racism. Really think it through and then if you are sure about it, speak your mind, but just think for a minute about the real issue, this particular issue, whatever it is. As a white person, I feel threatened sometimes that some (not all by any means, not most, but a small portion) black people may assume I'm racist simply because I am pale until I prove to them I'm not...kind of guilty until proven innocent. Only I most likely won't get the chance to do that, because most likely I will only become friendly with black people that do not have that mindset...being a shy person and all and of course people with that mindset would probably be reluctant to be friends with me as a white person as much as I am uncomfortable around them. I understand where the anger and pain comes from, only there is not much I can do about it.

 

And I think that there are sometimes in our country when we are silent about wrongs having to do with race when we really should be speaking up (both black and white people) and other times there are times when something really was not about race in the truth of the matter that God sees, but will be portrayed as such anyway because of hype, and just because emotions get charged...and I feel like sometimes that does more harm to race relations than good.

 

I feel it's really important to express indignation about things that really are wrong...and not just express anger about things that are wrong through other things that really weren't so wrong, but can be made to look that way. Does that make sense? It's kind of like when you discipline a child...you should not discipline children for a true accident, because they will learn they are not allowed to make mistakes and they will become anxious children, and basically that they are just bad for being who they are. But if you discipline them for things they really did wrong intentionally, and they knew were against the rules, but they did anyway...then they learn right from wrong and that their are consequences, but they also know they are not bad or stupid people, they just need to try to do the right thing.

 

Not that we should all treat eachother like children,but you get what I mean?

 

Anyway I was getting to the hair stuff....what I was getting at is that there is nothing wrong, unbusiness like or distracting about this hairstyle ...and I hope you don't encounter this, but if you do encounter someone, a boss or coworker saying something about your hair, like they don't think it is appropriate for work...In my mind it could be nothing else but racism.

 

 

I agree when someone is mean to me the first thing in my head is that they are a jerk not that they are racist. I dont automatically think someone is racist unless they give me reason to. Now if someone ask me something about my hair i dont get offended. I have family who would but i dont like them cos they are quite ignorant and racist. My bff who is white asked me why dont i wash my hair more than once a week.I told her bc my hair is very kinky and kinky hair is usually dryer. The natural oils that come from the scalp dont reach the entirety of the shaft like with straighter hair. So my hair needs every bit of natural oil it can get so washing it three four times a week is actually bad for my hair. She said oh ok and we went off to dinner and had a good time. She wasnt asking out of malice she was asking out of curiousity.

 

So im not implying anyone is racist. I just was wondering why people would discriminate against someone for something they cant help. Your hair texture is as much out of your control as your skin color.

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