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Separation and Divorce Considering ending your marriage? Going through a divorce? Let us know!

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Old 7th January 2019, 9:37 PM   #46
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How long should I take it? (Part 2 of 20 years gone?)

HI All,
I thought I would start a new thread since my last one sat a little dormant, and this is almost a new subject.


Well, at the end of my last thread, I thought it was all over an done with. This couldn't be farther from the truth. After her... "I don't want to be married to you" comment, she came to me and said I pushed her into that answer. Since I REALLY didn't want things to be over... I said, "OK" and lets just take a step back. I also told her again that I couldn't live in a loveless marriage. I also said that she would have to put on a happy face, and really want to make an effort of fixing the problems.

In that time ( a couple weeks now) we will have a few good days, and then a bad day. The good days feel like "Normal"... but the bad days are ugly. It will generally start with her acting mad for no reason, and then being very distant. That makes me feel neglected, and puts me into the "Why me" or the "Why am I trying" stage. That winds up in the heated debates. Oh... and mind you... she will not say "I love you" back to me. (This absolutely kills me, and is really to core of the problem. No Love = No Marriage)

A few nights ago... we were having a heart to heart, but was going the wrong way. As the tension built... I eventually said... "We are just re-hashing the same things we have talked about, and I will not live without love." (Not talking about sex, just simple gestures at this point) But as I was walking out of the kitchen... she started down the path of... " you didn't even want the kids". This was loud, and our 7 year old was sitting in the living room. At that point, I pop'ed, and told her to get out. Her response was why should I ? At that point I turned around and said... "You just took this to a new level, and nothing should make these kids feel bad". So... she asked if she should pack a bag... and I said... "I don't want you to go, but you need to cool off, and get your head on straight... so you decide how long you need to leave."

Half a day later, I find out she went to my folks house to talk with my dad. He knew of the problem, but my wife also knew I was keeping it from my mom because I didn't want her to worry about me. Needless to say, her showing up at my folks brought my mom into it. (upset about that)

From the meeting with my dad... she agreed to go to counseling, and she has gotten back onto some meds. But the back and forth of good days and bad are still happening. OK... at this point... yes, it's only been one session, and only about 4 or 5 days of her new meds... but I really can't take it anymore. I love he dearly, and don't want things to end... but I'm literally going to have a stroke or heart attack because of the stress levels.

This is where the new question is............I'm on a biz trip at the moment, and won't be home for a few days. before I left, she ironed my shirts, and helped me get ready as she always does. (that was very nice to have) But, still can't simply say... "I love you too" or any other affectionate response. Before I left, I told her that she will have most of a week to really think about things, and I won't take "I don't know what I want" as an excuse anymore. (she has said she needed time and some space alone) I'm just afraid that when I get home, it's going to be the same thing.

FYI... I told her to go to the courthouse and file the papers the other day, but she didn't. So... how long should I have to put up with this? It really hurts, and I'm worried that she will force me into making the decision that she can't when I get home. I know she may need time for more counseling, and the meds to balance... but without any love in return... I don't know why I should give her the time she is asking for. I even told her just to say it for now... it may be good for her soul. But she won't.

Oh.... one last thing. She did say it a few days ago, but then I learned that I was on speaker, and our 12 year old was listening. So... it was just a lie in front of our kid.

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 19th January 2019 at 11:41 PM.. Reason: Link to previous thread, edit for topical content, fix spacing
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Old 7th January 2019, 9:49 PM   #47
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If these are antidepressant meds they take more than 2 weeks and up to 4 weeks to show any benefit. at all
Some people also need to be on different meds before they find one that works, and counselling can take a long long time.
So expecting one session and 4-5 days of meds to be a miracle cure is unrealistic.
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:02 PM   #48
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If these are antidepressant meds they take more than 2 weeks and up to 4 weeks to show any benefit. at all
Some people also need to be on different meds before they find one that works, and counselling can take a long long time.
So expecting one session and 4-5 days of meds to be a miracle cure is unrealistic.


Yes... I understand... but I'm just so lost and hurt that I don't know if I can hold it together any longer. Being in my hotel room sux right now. My thoughts when alone aren't putting me in a happy place... I just think about not cooking breakfast for my kids, and enjoying what I have accomplished over the years.


I guess more than anything... I'm just looking to get a few things off my chest.
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Old 8th January 2019, 3:17 AM   #49
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I guess more than anything... I'm just looking to get a few things off my chest.
You're your own worst enemy right now. Your expectations are unrealistic, you're reacting emotionally and pushing her when she's not ready. The whole "say I love you" thing is unproductive when you're just trying to establish ground rules.

Is there a reason you're not going to counseling together? Yelling hurtful things at each other isn't communication and it seems you both need a reset in order to truly listen to the other person. I know you're frustrated but this isn't the right way to go about it...

Mr. Lucky
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Old 8th January 2019, 3:27 AM   #50
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Hey, I didnt read your first thread, but I thought I would contribute.

Ease up on her. I know its frustrating but you gotta give her a chance to miss you and come to love you on her terms if its even possible. You can't logic and twist a woman to love you because its what you want. You have to be irresistible and interesting and funny and mysterious. Otherwise you are asking her to be in love with a set of instructions that has a penis. It wont work. Stop telling her you love her because you are only doing it to see if she will say it back. You probably once had a woman that was coming after you and excited about you. She can't get there with you making demands.

Focus on what you are doing in your life and leave her be whatever way she wants. Every ounce of pressure you put on her will be pressure that is pushing her away. If she feels no pressure, it gives her a chance to think and miss you.

You are stressing yourself out because you are trying to control another persons emotions and you are going to face infinite unmet expectations and stress is the only thing you are going to receive for your efforts.

She already knows what you want, you dont have to tell her anything, your job is to become an awesome person and by doing so you will make yourself happy. You are the only person that can, she can't, even if she loves you and does everything you ask. Once you make yourself into the awesome person you are, she might find you attractive again but you wont really care if she doesn't because you are so happy with yourself.


You might try getting some therapy for yourself. Has anyone suggested listening to Corey Wayne videos and reading his book? Podcasts are also available. The goodguys2greatmen web site has a bunch of good stuff that you would like as well.

Last edited by GinON; 8th January 2019 at 3:30 AM..
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Old 8th January 2019, 8:04 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lucky View Post
You're your own worst enemy right now. Your expectations are unrealistic, you're reacting emotionally and pushing her when she's not ready. The whole "say I love you" thing is unproductive when you're just trying to establish ground rules.

I guess you are right. It just feels like a knife twisting in my chest when it's the woman I've come to love over 20 years.

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Is there a reason you're not going to counseling together?

Not really. When this all came down, I said I would do what she wanted, but I thought a normal "Marriage Councilor" would be a waste of time. The reason is... I'm willing to listen, and work on anything that has been brought up between us already. So... she's seeing a professional to help her with her pent up anger, and some emotional issues. (She use to see someone long ago but stopped)


Just as a re-cap... when she blew-up... she was blaming me for things that happened even before we got married. (Things I didn't remember) She also blamed me for things that eventually turned out good !!! For example, money was tight after paying taxes one year, and we went down to the freezer in the basement to see how we could stretch the groceries for a couple weeks. In doing that, we threw away A LOT of freezer burned food. (money in the trash at the moment) Also, our pantry was full, but... "We didn't have anything to eat". (lots of ingredients but nothing to finish a meal) So, I said we need to plan meals for a week at a time, and ONLY buy what we need. This worked great, and kept the shopping $$$ to a minimum until we got back on track.


OK... so during one of our "Now" arguments, she yelled at me for MAKING HER do a list for meal planning, and that was "controlling to her". My response to that was "Fine, I'm sorry, and if you don't want to do it anymore, then stop." I was then met with a "Well, it makes shopping and figuring out what we will have for dinner easier." (I can list several more like that)


So... as you can see, I'm in the middle of a Dammed if I do, Dammed If I don't situation. There's a lot of that right now... and that's why she is seeing someone by herself. She is very smart, and logical. She graduated #1 in her collage class, and when I can get her to take a step back, and to look at the situation... those are the times where there is some clarity and piece for a few days. (I think she is borderline manic at the moment)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Lucky View Post
Yelling hurtful things at each other isn't communication and it seems you both need a reset in order to truly listen to the other person. I know you're frustrated but this isn't the right way to go about it...

Mr. Lucky

The "Now" arguments aren't really shouting matches. They are heated, emotional debates for the most part. They are very draining because of that. Honestly, if I could have gotten her to open up, (like this) and talk about issues as they came up over the years, we wouldn't be here now. She internalized everything. I say it like it is.


On that note... that was probably our first argument as newlyweds. I normally cooked when we first got married, but she wanted to try. I didn't care for what she made, and she was VERY upset. I wasn't mean or cruel about it, but when she asked, I told her I didn't like it. She got upset but I told her... "Am I supposed to eat something I don't like for the next 50 years?" (She didn't make it bad, I just didn't like what it was)


Quote:
Originally Posted by GinON View Post
Hey, I didnt read your first thread, but I thought I would contribute.

Ease up on her. I know its frustrating but you gotta give her a chance to miss you and come to love you on her terms if its even possible. You can't logic and twist a woman to love you because its what you want. You have to be irresistible and interesting and funny and mysterious. Otherwise you are asking her to be in love with a set of instructions that has a penis. It wont work. Stop telling her you love her because you are only doing it to see if she will say it back. You probably once had a woman that was coming after you and excited about you. She can't get there with you making demands.<snip>
Sure... I understand all of that. But just a small recap from my other thread....

I thought everything was perfect, and one day she hit me with 20 years of pent up "Stuff" that has angered her. She acted like she didn't want to resolve things, and said, "I don't love you", "I fear for my safety", and she said she didn't know what to do about it. She also said "If I could make this all happen on my own, I would". (referring to the life we have now)

At this point, she is seeing someone, and back on her meds... but still hasn't even said... "Yes, I want this to work out".
SO... the question in my head is... Does she really want things to get better, or is she just buying time to figure out what she wants? Like I said above, she is very smart, and once in a while I can get her to look back into the situation she has created.

As far as counseling for me... I don't really see the point. I generally let things "Roll off my back" and don't hold grudges. Yes, I'm sad, lost, upset... so on. But to me, this is like bad tooth. if it gets fixed, the pain in gone. If it gets pulled... the pain will be gone after the healing. (now that I typed that, it's a good analogy)

Oh well... I need to get to a morning meeting. Thanks for listing to me.

Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 19th January 2019 at 11:42 PM.. Reason: Truncate quote and fix spacing
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Old 11th January 2019, 7:33 AM   #52
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Hi all,


I'm packing to head home from my trip this morning. If there's any advice you can give before I get home... I would love to hear it. I know I'm my own worst enemy because of my own thoughts... I would love to know what to do about that.


Is there any way to rebuild the trust? I just feel that the last 20 years have been a lie because of the way she has handled all of this. To me, this is a HUGE point. Even if I get home and she says clearly... "I want it all to work"... How can I believe her, since she already said if she could do it on her own, she would? (would this just be her keeping her true feelings in again to keep the life she has made)


If nothing else... I'll give you an update later tonight.




Thanks for listening to me. I've gotten more self peace chatting here than chatting with the one local friend I felt I could open up to.
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Old 11th January 2019, 9:29 AM   #53
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I'm packing to head home from my trip this morning. If there's any advice you can give before I get home... I would love to hear it. I know I'm my own worst enemy because of my own thoughts... I would love to know what to do about that.
My advice is, as soon as you get home... Find a good individual counsellor for yourself, and if you hope to save your marriage make an appointment to see a marriage counsellor.

And, set the absolute ground rule with your wife that there will be absolutely no arguing or hurtful comments made in front of your children. That simply can not happen again.

Good luck!
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Old 12th January 2019, 6:27 AM   #54
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Well..........I'm sitting here at 5am typing. I got home yesterday, and was hopping for any sign that things would be different... but nope. She was acting distant, and the same as when I left. But, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and I waited until the kids went to bed. After about an hour.... I got up and started to head to bed... but I stopped to ask... "did you come to any conclusions while I was gone?" I was met with the same crap. "You are tying to push me into an answer"

What it comes down to is....
1) She says she doesn't love me anymore.
2) She knows she can't continue life as she has become accustom to without me part of it.
3) Doesn't want to disturb the kids life.

She actually had the balls to say "People stay together for a long time until things get worked out." (WTF) My response was "There is still a glimmer of hope, and there is still some love". Heck, she still hasn't even said that she want's to work on things. She basically just wants me to be OK that she doesn't love me, and wont' show me any affection, but still wants use to live together like room mates. I've had one hour sleep, but I couldn't just lay back in the room anymore. Right now my ring has come off my finger, and I'm going to ask for her's back.

What a figgen waste of time. I don't just mean the last 2 months... I mean the last 20 years.

Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 25th February 2019 at 11:07 AM.. Reason: Fix spacing
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Old 12th January 2019, 6:40 AM   #55
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My advice is, as soon as you get home... Find a good individual counsellor for yourself, and if you hope to save your marriage make an appointment to see a marriage counsellor.

And, set the absolute ground rule with your wife that there will be absolutely no arguing or hurtful comments made in front of your children. That simply can not happen again.

Good luck!

I would love for this to work out... but she really doesn't at this point. She actually said "We can go to a marriage councilor together." My response back was "Do you want to give it an honest try, or is this just going to be another ploy to extend the inevitable?" I can't force her to love me. I know that sounded one sided... but for the past 2 months I've done nothing other than to try to figure out the core of the problem, and I've offered so many possible solutions. She simply will not agree to anything because of the lack of love. I would go to the councilor with her if I though there was really any chance of it changing things. But without at least a small amount of love... how can I even get through a couple days?


Before I tried to go to sleep last night... I told her once again that it was 100% her choice on what happens to this family. (despite my best efforts to save things) heck... she couldn't even say "Good Night" to me. She's just mad to her core, and I've become the target of all that is bad over the past 20 years.




I think on some level it would have been easier to find out she was cheating on me. At least I would know why I was upset. This relation ship literally went from "I love you" one day to "The love is gone" the next.
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Old 12th January 2019, 9:53 AM   #56
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Perhaps Iíve missed this, but is it possible that she has another man on the side? Thatís often the case in situations like this...

Regardless, you wife has been very clear with you what she wants. Either you accept her terms, or make other arrangements to divorce. Iím sorry.
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Old 12th January 2019, 10:01 AM   #57
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She actually said "We can go to a marriage councilor together."

If you want this to work out then you need to go to MC together.


I think it would be a good idea if you arranged IC for yourself too.
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Old 12th January 2019, 10:37 AM   #58
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Perhaps Iíve missed this, but is it possible that she has another man on the side? Thatís often the case in situations like this...

We've touched on that here... but I really can't find any evidence of that.

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Regardless, you wife has been very clear with you what she wants. Either you accept her terms, or make other arrangements to divorce. Iím sorry.

Yes and no. YES... she's clear that the love is gone... but NO... she won't say what she wants. The MC was just after I got back from this trip.

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If you want this to work out then you need to go to MC together.


I think it would be a good idea if you arranged IC for yourself too.

I understand, and you've been a nice clear voice in this. (thank you) but I really don't think this is an honest gesture from her. Just buying time. Let's be honest here... for a MC to have a chance to work, both sides need to have to want it to work. Right? Last night I asked her if she is really looking for this to have a positive resolution. Guess what???? She couldn't answer me. (no surprise there) If come back to my other thread... All I'm looking for is an answer to the question.... "Is there hope, or is there no hope?" I'm not looking for a time line, or a promise.... just a direction. She dropped all of this on me 2 months ago, and offered no resolution, and "Needs more time to figure it out"... but she is bring up stuff that+17 years old.


As far as the IC for me... Don't really need it. I will recover if she just makes a choice. Right now, she is being cruel to me.
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Old 12th January 2019, 11:09 AM   #59
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YES... she's clear that the love is gone... but NO... she won't say what she wants.

As far as the IC for me... Don't really need it. I will recover if she just makes a choice. Right now, she is being cruel to me.
She has been clear to you. She does not love you, she will not be affectionate toward you - she is barely being civil toward you. For all intent and purpose, your marriage is over. She is staying only for the lifetyle that your provide and “for the children” - which is a convenient excuse that makes it somehow acceptable for her to use you to maintain her current lifestyle.

That’s clear as day - I’m just not sure you are ready to accept it.

I think IC would be a GREAT idea for you. Unless something changes with the meds, MC would be a total waste of money, considering that she has been quite clear that she has no intention of changing anything or re-investing in the marriage.

Last edited by BaileyB; 12th January 2019 at 11:15 AM..
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Old 12th January 2019, 11:15 AM   #60
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MC would be a total waste of money, considering that she has been quite clear that she has no intention of changing anything or re-investing in the marriage.
She is angry and she is lashing out over years of resentment, but she has suggested going to MC and I think the OP will regret it if he doesn't at least try.
They need to hash things out in a neutral space.
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