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No Contact or Friends? 27F broke up with 30M


Breaks and Breaking Up It happens to most everyone at some point in life! Share your experiences!

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Old 31st January 2018, 10:11 AM   #61
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I'm seeing the counsellor me and my ex went to for our IVF appointments in 2015-2016. I don't think my ex would be receptive to having a counselling session


I may have missed something. Why would she go to counsellor now?
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:13 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Young mind View Post
...I was in the same shoes in September, and left for her coworker, throwing away everything we had for someone she just met.
Off course everything seems brand new and great, no arguments like you had and now she can enjoy, let her.
As you have been advised take time to heal, don't jump into relationships, try live , sort out your problems and trust me you will be in a better place.
My heart goes out to you man
Thank you. Of course our relationships, and exes, are different but I guess there are those questions that I have since you are a few more months down the line from when the break up occurred with my ex...

First, I guess you tried/try to avoid finding out but did the new relationship with the co-worker last all that long, is it still going? Again no pressure to answer and maybe you were successful in completely not knowing.

Second, has she tried to get back in touch? Did you try get back in touch a few months later? Again no pressure.

I have heard negative feelings reinforce over time but then again some dumpers may mellow after a break up so I just wonder :/
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:25 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by CantTakeMySmile View Post
I'm seeing the counsellor me and my ex went to for our IVF appointments in 2015-2016. I don't think my ex would be receptive to having a counselling session
I may have missed something. Why would she go to counsellor now?
She cried to me during the break up that she wanted to remain friends, I then asked her days later if she would go to a counselling session with me to see if we could resolve issues between us (not to be a couple because she was standing by the break up but just in general to clear the air to be on good terms) she agreed but then I saw her with the guy so that changed everything and I went NC for a week before writing a heartfelt four page letter (the only letter I have written to her in the time from BU) to which she called sounding devoid of emotion wanting to organise a time to come over and get stuff .

Even though during the breakup speech she said she wasn't considering counselling and it was final, she has been through a gamut of emotions since then. Maybe she wouldn't feel comfortable attending a session with me but maybe it would help her in some ways considering the issues she still has with her health but it's up to her really. When we went to the counselling sessions even though it was her going through the pain of the premature ovarian failure diagnoses she was the one really concerned with me because I had always been so clear on having kids one day. I can see now how selfish it seems but I viewed her as my partner for life so it was impacting me as well and even though I never left her when those big questions came up - could you be with me for the rest of your life without kids, what about adoption, I just couldn't answer, couldn't reassure. It was too much and I was probably in denial. She needed more, she needed a rock or at least someone who could seem strong or more casual about the future. I just wanted kids so bad with her, we could raise together a product of us as in the letter I shelved:

"In 2015 we were also dealing with your IVF struggles so it really was a double setback for our relationship and I admit I could have been more reassuring. I understand it is a larger shock for you because you are the one with the health diagnoses but I was really picturing us together forever and kids were a big deal to me.

Kids were always so important to me because I didn't have much family (as you know single child, dad left at a young age, raised by grandparents both deceased) and I wanted to bring little people into the world which had beautiful traits of you in them (which is why I was so sad and despondent because I loved who you were – your unique beauty and brilliant mind).

Now (as trite as it sounds) I see it's much more important sharing life with someone you really love and care about and even if we could never have kids with your eggs it’s how we would have raised kids which is really the reflection of the love we shared.

I can see how my denial and closed mindedness to consider other options affected you feeling secure in our relationship and my love for you. It hurts really bad because I was just in no state to deal with it but I never left. Even though you might not have felt it and would say things like ‘I love you more than you love me’ when you would cry in my arms when we hugged each other. But I was there, I’m sorry I had issues expressing my emotions more."
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:25 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by ConfusedLuke View Post
Thank you. Of course our relationships, and exes, are different but I guess there are those questions that I have since you are a few more months down the line from when the break up occurred with my ex...

First, I guess you tried/try to avoid finding out but did the new relationship with the co-worker last all that long, is it still going? Again no pressure to answer and maybe you were successful in completely not knowing.

Second, has she tried to get back in touch? Did you try get back in touch a few months later? Again no pressure.

I have heard negative feelings reinforce over time but then again some dumpers may mellow after a break up so I just wonder :/
It's only about 5 months since they started , actually I didn't handle the news in the most mature way but I guess I was only angry, after the first post she made of them together, at this time we were friends on fb, I just checked , I wrote her a 'closure ' message, expressing my sadness that she threw away our relationship for someone she just met, she didn't reply ofc, a week later I found out I was blocked and been curious I found out she posted some more when they were on a holiday the same night I was blocked , and the following weeks and eventually the ultimate 'in a relationship ' but a few months I gave in, acceptance took over and I started to move on.
I don't know how the relationship is going but like every other relationship there is always the honeymoon period where both partners and they ant imagine their lives without each other, and you will get to the stage where you accept and realize it's really not your worry anymore, her problems are no longer yours , however she chooses to act is entirely her burden.
Don't have bitter feelings, wish her well, I do too, if she's happy then I am, I didn't my best to make her happy same like you, my work took the better part of me and maybe I couldn't provide that excitement anymore, this is the same with you, but mature partners understand that, our exes are not one of those 1%, they are eternally searching for happiness which trust me will never come until you look inside.
This is definitely monkeybranching/ rebounding, but the quality is the difference not the length.
She hasn't contacted me but I reached a stage of indifference, if she contacted me tomorrow, I will wish her well and Be on my way like a stranger I met on the bus, no hard feelings, I still love her but now I know what I need in a partner, and believe me you will learn from this, sadness will come but there's always light at the end of the tunnel.
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:27 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by ConfusedLuke View Post
She cried to me during the break up that she wanted to remain friends, I then asked her days later if she would go to a counselling session with me to see if we could resolve issues between us (not to be a couple because she was standing by the break up but just in general to clear the air to be on good terms) she agreed but then I saw her with the guy so that changed everything and I went NC for a week before writing a heartfelt four page letter (the only letter I have written to her in the time from BU) to which she called sounding devoid of emotion wanting to organise a time to come over and get stuff .
I know you mean well, but you must accept the finality of this breakup, that is when your healing starts, remove the session from your plan, I doubt she will turn up, and DO NOT send her a letter, it's futile

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Old 31st January 2018, 10:32 AM   #66
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...she didn't reply ofc, a week later I found out I was blocked and been curious I found out she posted some more when they were on a holiday the same night I was blocked , and the following weeks and eventually the ultimate 'in a relationship ' but a few months I gave in, acceptance took over and I started to move on.
I don't know how the relationship is going.
Since you were blocked I'm guessing she re-added you or a friend told you or you had another account and the relationship status was public?

We now aren't friends on Facebook (or any other social media platform) and neither her or the guy she is seeing have a public relationship status' so I have absolutely no clue (but I guess that's better, right?)
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Old 31st January 2018, 10:36 AM   #67
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Since you were blocked I'm guessing she re-added you or a friend told you or you had another account and the relationship status was public?

We now aren't friends on Facebook (or any other social media platform) and neither her or the guy she is seeing have a public relationship status' so I have absolutely no clue (but I guess that's better, right?)
I found out from a friend In my case,you can see my posts on my profile
In my opinion, you must block her everywhere not to see those posts because beloved me they will come, soon you will forget you did.
The priority has to be yourself not whatever she's doing.
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Old 31st January 2018, 11:09 AM   #68
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She cried to me during the break up that she wanted to remain friends, I then asked her days later if she would go to a counselling session with me to see if we could resolve issues between us (not to be a couple because she was standing by the break up but just in general to clear the air to be on good terms) she agreed but then I saw her with the guy so that changed everything and I went NC for a week before writing a heartfelt four page letter (the only letter I have written to her in the time from BU) to which she called sounding devoid of emotion wanting to organise a time to come over and get stuff .

I think it would be out of line for her to go to counselling with an ex, while she has a new boyfriend. I am also unsure why you would ever go to counselling with an ex, except if the both was hoping for reconciliation, and we both actively trying to work on the relationship.

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Old 31st January 2018, 11:29 AM   #69
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:03 PM   #70
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One thing that sticks out in your thread is how you seem to be waiting on the 'right time" to contact. Also, how you say you want to be friends, but in essence you seem to be using that as a guise to just get back together. Be honest with yourself about what you want. Don't use NC as a means to a end. Trying to manipulate No Contact to work to get her back will be a painful process for you. It seems like it already has been.


And staying in touch with her family and friends is not a good idea... for you. Not because of the way it makes you look to her (though it is probably viewed pretty negatively by her), but it is not good for you to move on. You have to break all connection until you are apathetic to it. That doesn't mean that you stop the love, but you have to stop acting out, desperately trying to reach for something... desperately trying to "do" something. I get it... I do...


"Doing" something gives us something tangible when there is nothing tangible left in the relationship. But, when you think about it... the "something" you think you are doing, is actually nothing. Because there is nothing there any longer.


Not sure if that makes any sense but it makes sense to me, since I have done it as well.
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:08 PM   #71
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This is 95% of the 'friendship letter' I shelved. As it goes into some background I should probably give some Cliff notes on her and myself...

Even though my ex speaks perfect English and has no European accent (her family moved when she was two) she is from Croatia and talked to me about us retiring there one day when we were old.

Siddhartha is a book she read in the last year for uni and was left at my place (with a few other books but that stuck out a bit for me) and 'dream baby dream' is a song that Bruce Springsteen covered she really likes.

She would call me a 'sociologist at heart' when I was editing her essays.

I originally met her when I was living in the unit that has been lost in my mother's bankruptcy fight.

She is currently conducting IVF research (like an internship) not for the clinic she went to with me but somewhere else.

Anyway a little background...

I looked after my grandmother with dementia between the years 2010 - 2013 until my mother who suffers from psychosis (and was somehow my grandmother's power of attorney) told me I couldn't live with my grandmother anymore, called the police on me (my mother fabricated that I pushed her off a chair) and said if I didn't leave she would enforce an order against me in court.

So it was traumatic but I was blackmailed by my mother into leaving the only other person I really cared about (next to my girlfriend) because my mother was having delusions that every one was against her (these were spurred on by my nasty uncles who would provoke her).

She told me I was a pawn of my uncles and was being used to discredit her etc. she still thinks this (among all other conspiracies involving cyber interference and Goldman Sachs - it's too sad and confusing and crazy to really get into).

The irony is that my mother still called me to look after my grandmother when she wanted to go out drinking, or have a break.

After my grandmother died in 2014 I became estranged from my mother and didn't contact her for a couple of years until I heard from the shark lawyers of mine she lost a court case involving the unit (the one I was living in when I met my ex) as she wasn't paying the unit levies and that she was in bankruptcy court (I paid lawyers over the last year $$$ but she finally went bankrupt in December).

My school running coach offered me a room above his place for $200 a week in late 2013 after what happened with my mother but then I had issues with the other flatmates who would get drunk and throw parties, they once took my car DUI and I had to call the police to get it back.

So I went elsewhere but in 2014 it was more expensive to find a room at $250 minimum then summer came and my three month $280 pw sub-lease expired and I couldn't budget anything more than $250 per week for a room (and there was nothing going unless I moved cities) so 'camping' was the way to go.

She was away for about ten months between 2014 and late February 2015 travelling to Europe then volunteering in Nepal during which time I went from living with a running coach (I was hoping to become an international runner - I was state standard) to living with no fixed address.

I wasn't a drug addict (I'm not judgey but yes I have never ever touched drugs from a kid after what I saw they did to my father who became a heroin addict then absent from my life) or anything.

I was just poor, finding it difficult to get work and find a place to rent in the city so ended up 'camping' on headlands and then living out of a rented garage for a few months before finding a place in community housing.

At the time I was no fixed address I was referred to 'Pro Bono' lawyers (they weren't I ended up having to sign a contingent costs agreement of $70,000 successful outcome then I had to transfer because they weren't telling me of court dates or seeking my instruction - they were just running dead and since I've spent money on my mother's bankruptcy lawyers and another new lawyer for the family claim).

So in addition to the ex-lawyers contingency costs - I've spent $25,000 (that is money I've spent from my job and a loan and doesn't include the costs my old lawyers get if my new lawyer is successful in the family claim on my grandmother's estate in April).

These lawyers really added to my stress and screwed with me at a time I was really vulnerable...

I only mention all this because of context for the letter not because I want to turn this into some kind of pity party for me.

The reason I post on this forum is for the unadulterated (sometimes jarring) advice, to add my experience/voice to the mix and see if anyone else has gone/is going through similar experiences.

I think the letter is a good thing to share not that I would ever consider sending it now but perhaps lends some insight into the situation...

In the letter I also propose an eventual friendship, something I don't think will ever be possible given the way I feel about her.

Throughout all the turmoil that has gone on really beginning since my grandmother's dementia she was always there.

Even though the way our relationship ended was crappy I still have so much respect and admiration.

I just want to hold her again

---------------------------------------------

"I hope IVF research is going well and that you are smiling bright.

Please don’t feel any pressure or expectation to respond to this, read it when you feel like it.

I have been thinking about the situation, and reflecting on how I have acted in the last little while. This letter sets out my thoughts and thought process about everything that’s happened. I want to send this to clear the air.

Even though it may be difficult to remember in the beginning when we met in 2008, despite being shy, I was laid back.

I remember not caring to such an extent that I didn't know what was really happening with the unit (compare that to the last year…) I was intrigued by you, I loved your goofy sense of humour and how much you excitement and love you had in your eyes when you saw me.

Probably the biggest care I had at the time was making sure you got back to your unit each night (I thought your mother would get mad at me if you weren’t back) and singing songs to you (including Bruce Springsteen before you really got into him - albeit one your least favourite songs of his Secret Garden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lq8ZUcZDtU ).

Early on I remember us doing things like walking and roller-skating around the park and just chilling out together. When you went away for trips overseas I wasn't anxious, I was confident in our relationship and hoped you were having a great time...

Things went wrong on my end when I became to what to you seemed selfish and all consumed with what was going on with me to not consider your hopes and dreams for your career and study.

I loved your sense of adventure, curiosity of the world and in different cultures but when things got tough with my family (my grandmother's dementia, my mother becoming estranged and forcing me from my family home and then the court cases).

I became wrapped up in me and how to achieve some sort of stability (and I justified this to myself as being for ‘our future’) and when I began working full time last year it only added to the mix. My emotional reserves were depleted and I was spending less quality time with you.

It was like a drug I was blind to it seeing how it affected my behaviour and stress, but unlike a drug addiction where it is obviously in the physical and mental changes you probably just thought I myself was changing into this stressed out uncaring jerk forgetting the about the doting, shy and quirky Luke you fell in love with not linking it to me putting an unhealthy focus on what I thought was the best for ‘our future’.

The good thing about this is that now the sky is clear, the static of the legal cases has gone I am slowly becoming laid back once again and a person that others want to be around. The horrible thing about this is that you are gone.

I was just trying my best, everything I did from spending years looking after my grandmother, to study, to running and whatever I put my mind to I put 100%.

I’m sorry if you thought I wasn’t considering you but everything I did for work, for study, for the legal claims was to try and provide a future for you and I.

At the time it didn’t feel like I had a choice, I thought I would forever regret it if I didn’t try to save my mother from bankruptcy and the unit but now I forever regret the effect it had on us.

I now see how detrimental that was on the health of our fragile relationship.

I actually thought being selfish would be to walk away as we would both never know what it would be like if I at least tried to save the family house, the unit or at least was awarded what my grandma would have wanted for me out of her will through the provisions claim.

Whatever we got I thought we would share. I thought we would live together in the unit and maybe even eventually retire to Croatia.

Everything I did I did thinking of you, of a future for us, I was just worn out, worn down and careless not to see that you were checking out.

Through all the struggles with my grandmother and just life in general we were still a strong couple until about 2014 and the beginning of 2015 when I had major issues with housing and I started dealing with lawyers who had nothing but their own interests in mind.

This lack of stability and legal stress changed my behaviour and attitude. It made me anxious, consumed with how to survive and in many ways repulsive to be around.

Even though I showed support for you when you were away; emailing you all the time, when you got back I must have been subconsciously resentful that you had such a great trip while I was so stressed (by the time you came back in late February I had been living on the headlands, out of a car and a sleeping bag over two months in which time I had eye infections and came down with the flu) though I still wanted to be there for you and cared.

We were there for one another and I never stopped appreciating you.

I hope you see that I was strong getting through a time like this and not pathetic that I ended up in that position but it was difficult after my grandmother died. I tried to find places and some work to supplement benefits but it was difficult four-three years out of my degree and dealing with all the crap at that time.

During this period I engaged with case workers and counsellors and they helped me a great deal until April 2017 (I used to see them every week to second week).

In 2015 we were also dealing with your IVF struggles so it really was a double setback for our relationship and I admit I could have been more reassuring.

I understand it is a larger shock for you because you are the one with the health diagnoses but I was really picturing us together forever and kids were a big deal to me.

Kids were always so important to me because I didn't have much family (as you know single child, dad left at a young age, raised by grandparents both deceased) and I wanted to bring little people into the world which had beautiful traits of you in them (which is why I was so sad and despondent because I loved who you were – your unique beauty and brilliant mind).

Now (as trite as it sounds) I see it's much more important sharing life with someone you really love and care about and even if we could never have kids with your eggs it’s how we would have raised kids which is really the reflection of the love we shared.

I can see how my denial and closed mindedness to consider other options affected you feeling secure in our relationship and my love for you. It hurts really bad because I was just in no state to deal with it but I never left.

Even though you might not have felt it and would say things like ‘I love you more than you love me’ when you would cry in my arms when we hugged each other. But I was there, I’m sorry I had issues expressing my emotions more.

When I moved into community housing in the middle of 2015 I was mentally scarred so looking back can see how I took refuge in watching trash TV (that crap is really dangerous - it’s like a drug too and I haven't watched any TV - only Netflix and YouTube since we split).

Especially reality shows and Fox News - and how that killed our romance and warped my mind-set towards being ‘traditional’ (especially since I always wanted stability and cable news blended the idea of being conservative with other ideas which were and are repulsive to me including the belittling of immigrants and women. I didn't and don't believe in that but I can now see what a dog whistle 'the wall' is).

When I used to watch the shows, I used to want you by my side because I loved being around you and at the same time wanted to get my mind off everything terrible with lawyers and work. I now see how important it was for me to go into the other room, to help out practice Spanish or help with other essays and if you were stretching, stretch with you.

I began to feel you felt my views were distorted (some of them were) and began to lose respect for me as a person.

This was then compounded when I stormed off on the bus, or into the other room, or muttered swear words under my breath, or moaning because you ate the packet of biscuits I bought. Then the ultimatums to clean up even hollow as they may be because when you called my bluff I would say ‘no please don’t go’ were still unpleasant to say the least.

Some of these things may seem petty to an outsider but I see now how they built resentment, a lack of respect and over the long-term amount to repugnant behaviour. I can see how you could lose respect and attraction to me if you no longer felt invested in a future together and I was not seeming to care at all how that was affecting you.

Such petty, pathetic squabbles probably also led to you just feeling like bleh towards me.

Like I was an immature boy and not a strong man who cared about you and what you were feeling. But I was wrapped up and frustrated at you for not seeing how much I was trying at work, with my mother and dealing with lawyers.

I see now I shouldn’t have relied on you that much, I shouldn’t have put all my eggs in the one basket and just thought you knew how I was feeling because you loved me and could clearly see everything that was happening to me being tossed about the place by factors I had little ability to control.

I can see what went wrong. I can see it was like I was some sort of conduit for all the stress and crappiness that permeated through the issues I was dealing with related to my family.

And when you began to detach all the issues that I was facing - trying to preserve a house, contesting a will, saving my mother from bankruptcy instead of our issues for our joint future became my issues alone.

Then when they became my issues alone because you separated your vision for the future from mine all the angst I expressed suddenly became selfish because you no longer shared my view, shared my struggle.

You just saw this pathetic man, flailing about trying to juggle and control everything but failing. And what you viewed as dictating I viewed as give and take, as compromise, as demands just of just being part of a relationship. And I can see how much you really were there for me.

…But if you don't feel the need to put in anymore, if you aren’t invested with them, if you are out of love and somebody is asking you to do something then you feel bad, and by extension emotionally overwhelmed and even controlled or compelled to do something you don't want to do.

This can lead to arguments and feelings of animosity but it was never my intent to make you feel bad, from my perspective I thought you were all-in with me on everything, but the more you detached the more desperate and reliant I became for you to help out and the more you didn't feel like you had to it became a spiral to where it finished in the break up.

It is nobody’s fault here. I feel really sad because you must have gone through heart break too and even though you probably fantasised about rebelling (“do what I want”) and breaking up with me at times it probably was really difficult for you to.

I can see now the questions you were asking ‘Why didn’t you maintain contact with your other exes’ and ‘Are you with me just because you don’t want to be alone?’ were red flags but you never said you were considering breaking to me.

I remember answering to the first one ‘I don’t know because we were young and the relationships only lasted a few months’ and to the second ‘No, I’m with you because I love you’. I wish I knew how you felt.

Another question now would be ‘If you dumped me last year would you still see me from time to time?’ and I would go of course, even if I was seeing someone else because we shared so much and spent all our formative years together.

In my view it’s unhealthy to compartmentalise people and relegate them to ‘the past’ who you spent that much time with (unless they are murderers or rapists of course).

Everyone has feelings and I would like to think that even if I no longer felt like I could be with you I would still be there for you as a good supportive friend.

I can see now because you were checking out you stopped thinking of them as ‘our issues’ and started thinking of them as issues that were to do with me and I was self-absorbed discussing them all the time with you. I apologise.

It was a landslide coming down on me and I was trying to push against it. It was hopeless and it brought our relationship down. I’m sorry if you felt damaged standing by your man for so long.

I’m no longer investing time and energy in the court case – the affidavits and material I’ve submitted will be my case and it will rest – I’ll let this current lawyer do the rest (which is why I said the sky is clear now because I’m not stressed out doing a brief or meeting lawyers all the time).

When it came to the childish tantrums I understand why you didn't feel comfortable pulling me up on any of this at the time because

a) I should have been circumspect to my own behaviour - you shouldn't have had to mother me and

b) I would have probably debated and worn you down with what seemed like selfish arguments or a tantrum anyway... So, what was the point?

But I was blinded by all the crap going on to reflect, only when you broke up with me did it become clear.

The ruptures were apparent and I was spending more time trying to escape the pressures of work, of the court case, spending all this time on silly things like websites looking for deals and staying up watching TV than being in bed kissing and cuddling you.

I respect you so much for standing by me during all this time.

When you began to detach you might not have known but when it dawned on you that you weren't happy at all being with me (you probably found me insufferable, despicable and resented me outright).

I thought you might (even if you still chose to split with me) think that maybe all this crappy behaviour I was displaying was contextual (and yes that is no reason to still be around such selfishness just because it is a reaction due to circumstance but it is a huge difference between the way I react and how I feel and who I am inside beyond the situation I was in).

The other major sadness is that I didn't see your heart that I was so pre-occupied with the lawyers, my mother and work that I didn't see how much you were detaching from me.

At times, I had moments of brief realisation but I channelled them in the wrong way - saying I will quit my job because of how I was feeling (which was stupid). I felt my world was crumbling, when I should have channelled them into being more positive, productive and open with you.

You know it was a really bad situation I was in (my uncles were abusive, my mother went crazy, my last grandparent died and next thing I am in court for three years – the final family provision hearing is in April).

I would probably want to leave me too considering how negative things became (including pressure around kids – pressure which means nothing now because I realise that kids aren’t the be all and end all and meaning of life – the meaning of life is finding someone who can make your heart beat fast and constantly intrigue you).

I hope you understand that I was never trying to be mean to you, to boss you or make you feel insignificant but I was caught in a whirlwind and there is no one who should put up being around that even if you are committed to that person.

I really do get it. Hell, if I was in your position even as much as I love you I probably would have had to detach for my own sake, even if my heart would ache.

I have reflected on this a deeply - when you broke up with me you told me you ‘didn’t like how I made you feel about yourself’ but I had no idea.

I never was with you just because I didn’t want to be alone, you are a gem and were the apple of my eye to which nothing could possibly compare.

You are the most loving, most gorgeous girl and it kills me to think you think I might have made you feel like I didn't consider you.

I don’t have anything inherently wrong with me though in terms of not being able to pick up signs though my therapists said I have anxiety issues, but these things are circumstantial and can improve.

Don’t think I’m going to be this big ball of stress forever, even now I’m much calmer. I would have been unable to type these thoughts without breaking down every paragraph a few weeks ago. I feel so much better for people around me now, if I was still that person who was so stressed I could understand if you or anybody else wouldn’t want anything to do with me.

Anyway, for all my blindness I was still a bit perceptive that something was amiss but I put it down to college stress and hormones and not dissatisfaction with me as a partner. I never intended to make you feel bad I can see though how anyone would feel bad around a moaning misery guts all the time.

This time away in reflection made me realise just how much I forgot to nurture what was important and how much I got lost in the worries and struggles of things I couldn’t really control like my late grandmother's house being sold or the unit being lost in my mother's bankruptcy.

I’m really sorry if you felt you didn’t have a voice.

But I accept I put myself in that situation and even though it was with a good heart it didn’t have a good impact on our relationship.

I can see the more you detached the more I became more frustrated and it was a spiral where I had to wake up to myself or you had to walk away.

I wished we communicated more and cleared all this up before you threw the gauntlet down on the relationship but I understand it had to come to this.

We can both focus on negatives and look back and say everything was a failure and burn all the bridges or make the most of the fact we are still both here, we both are empathetic and caring and we both can be positive about the future (and we aren’t so different even if there seemed to be a grand-canyon between us by the end).

We both see now that things broke down I blame you not communicating, you blame me being fixated and consumed with stress leading to repulsive behaviour.

From now on I think we can both reflect on the past relationship we had and come to terms that it did sour, that the affection and romance did die, that we did become ****ty with one another but we didn't die along with it.

Even though our relationship was a drowning ship at the end it doesn't mean we can't have a great friendship into the future (even if in the coming weeks to months it will take time to adjust and if you need space during this I understand completely).

We can’t control the past or what happened but the future is bright.

I had no idea you were depressed because of me. I wish you said something but understand if you couldn’t. I told you I have never been angry at you, just sad and frustrated at the situation.

I could tell you were down but never for a moment did I feel it was to do with me. It hurts that the well of emotion I had for you ran miles deep but you only saw a puddle on the ground.

I would ask you if you were okay all the time or angry and you would say ‘I’m fine’ never did I know you were grieving our relationship. I thought you were dealing with your **** too and it was just immune problems, hormones or what else and not me that was causing you to be so upset.

It was really difficult to tell and I guess if we communicated more maybe I would have woken up to how tunnel-visioned I had become and how dissatisfied you were becoming with me.

It was impossible for me to read the signs because there was all this other crap going on. When I did ask it was always ‘I’m good.’ or ‘why do you ask if I’m angry all the time?’.

It was only when I saw the days old half-drunk herbal fertility teas in the week or so before you broke up with me and you told me you had already grieved did it begin to dawn that maybe the pressure you felt around me was putting a rift between us.

When you left I did go through an existential crisis because so much of myself was committed to the idea of us being together and invested in you.

In our relationship you were a partner, my family and friends rolled into one and I can see how important it is to have others close to talk to (beyond counsellors of course) none of this crap would have mattered if I thought I was losing you because I wasn’t nurturing more of your dreams.

Everything I did in my mind was for us. When it came down to it even though I expressed reservations with humanities (maybe I was subconsciously resentful because that is something I really wanted to do)

I still supported your decision to study it, looking up subjects, editing essays (sometimes with a ‘do I have to?’ attitude but I was tired!) and calculating the marks you needed for honors which you were focussed on doing.

When it came to your love of travel I never tried to prevent you going even though it hurt me missing you for months at a time. When you emailed me photos it brought a little ray of happiness and made our time apart more bearable.

I wanted to see you chase your dreams. I really wish I had saved enough to come with you but I was looking after my grandmother then dealing with all the crap from the coaches' place and moving around places I found in classifieds to be able to.

I never wanted to leave you over any of your decisions because I wanted to see you flourish, to be the woman you wanted to be. I’m sorry if you thought I was self-centred because I didn’t show more interest in getting to know your friends or going out dancing (for examples on Thursdays) but I was worn out and even though our views and beliefs didn’t perfectly align…

I just miss your perspective on everything.

I want to see you be whatever you choose to be whether it’s a savvy businesswomen or worldwide wanderer (or both!)

I just read Siddartha - it's an amazing book and such an allegory for finding oneself in the world by having to go through torment and different experiences in life - the cycles of being born into knowledge, losing everything, trying to find enlightenment, failing, then finding your own version of enlightenment I can see resonates with me and a lot of other travellers (no wonder it was championed by the hippies in the sixties)

I guess I am a philosopher, or at least sociologist at heart

For now, I have been finding who I am beyond the relationship finding that when the blinding struggle to preserve 'tradition', ‘kids’ and 'heritage' is taken away that I am not such a bad guy.

I have been volunteering more and more down the beach and have put my hand up to teach disadvantaged kids to drive. I really loved that about you, your generous spirit.

When you were talking about volunteering for crisis support hotlines or wanting to be the yoga instructor for woman who had been through trauma I was worried about the effect it might have on your mental health.

That's tragically ironic considering that me worrying about that made you probably feel like I didn't support your dreams and was just being a bully (which led to the end of our relationship).

I understand though you still may be processing, the dust still may be settling for you, so I won’t push it like Christmas when I was saying let’s meet up in the next week or two. Clearly it will take time, but I’m not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, I can’t wait for all this to be so far behind both of us. Doing things for you makes me feel like a great person.

For now I hope you are keeping well, take care and remember… dream baby dream!

Luke '

-----------------------------------

I just want her to know how I feel even if I know her heart won't change
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Old 31st January 2018, 12:25 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by CantTakeMySmile View Post

"Doing" something gives us something tangible when there is nothing tangible left in the relationship. But, when you think about it... the "something" you think you are doing, is actually nothing. Because there is nothing there any longer.


Not sure if that makes any sense but it makes sense to me, since I have done it as well.
I guess there are a few reasons why I'm 'doing something' but taking my time.

a) She will need time and space until she receives any correspondence from me whatsoever to take it to heart, otherwise I risk it being seen as a reflexive desperate action to get her back - not that I have realised what went wrong with the relationship, how I can fulfil her needs now and what I can improve (which I have but I realise it won't be taken seriously fresh from being dumped - even if she wasn't with the guy she is with).

b) She is with the new guy and still experiencing feelings of intense 'love' so the last thing she will want is seeing something from me, she will be totally non-receptive.

c) She may contact me in the intervening period which would be the ideal situation as then it will be a sign that we can start on some middle ground and I won't have to go to the extent of writing a similar letter to what I just posted months or over a year down the line.

d) If I do reach out in six months time etc. it won't be with the letter, a letter like that I will only send if there is no response after a couple of weeks to a 'hi how are you? if you are ready I would like to meet up some time' message.

e) The message will be more of closure to me... There I finally did it put every bit of my heart out there. There is nothing else now at all I can do. I wouldn't feel right if I didn't express the entirety of how I felt one day after months of reflection. Even the friendship letter is obviously effected by a lot of swirling emotions right now...

I realise it's difficult for everyone and it is the best way to heal and it's not straight forward for every person who's been dumped to 'stop caring' but for me she was the reason I got up in the morning and went to work, she was the reason I dealt with crappy lawyers and my mother who would yell insults at me every time I visited her. She was the only one who I could turn to when dealing with seeing my grandmother slip away. She was someone I could chat to over silly things and warmly embrace like no tomorrow.

She was the reason for me to keep going with everything, then to find out that she didn't care about that future anymore and by extension me. That she lost faith and came to view me as selfish, manipulative and that she lost part of herself being with me is soul destroying.

I wanted to travel the world with her, I wanted to see her become a researcher that she wanted to be, I wanted to have a place to call home for stability and to refinance in order to go overseas on months long adventures but I took it as a given she knew that when now looking back I don't think she ever did.

I would always be discussing the latest development with my lawyers or my mother and did not talk about the reasons why I was so pre-occupied that it was for our joint future together pursuing our dreams. She felt alone in the relationship. I was overwhelming. I get it. Now that I'm not paying thousands to lawyers or caught up in all the crappy stress of it all my behaviour will change (and is but her leaving has thrown me).

I just need her to see that I can meet her needs (sexually she told me there was no loss in physical attraction but I was too down all the time and not making the time for romance and emotionally, mentally), but I doubt she will want to give it another go as she made the decision and I think she may be too prideful or consider it weak to try and start with me again given how negatively she began to view me and my effect on her.

Only with time and through circumstance may we be together again but for that to occur I can't be too needy or just keep trying my hardest to forget about her (because the more I try the more I know I will think about how much I love her).

That is why I'm doing something, for if I just go 'NC, NC, NC, NC' every day with nothing to look forward to and no road map ahead I will be prone to doing something I don't want to do. No, not jump off a cliff. Something like text incessantly after another month, or try and call her mother or family. I need to be logical to control the compulsion to reach out, I need to think 'am I making her feel comfortable?'. No one is going to take a 'how how are you?' message months down the line as overwhelming, some may think it's inappropriate but if there is no pressure to it...

The letter on the other hand is more selfish, is more for me, is to remind her how much she meant to me even if it doesn't change the way she feels and she doesn't give a crap about it (I'm sure she will open it unless her personality has changed 180 degrees because of her inquisitive nature).

I understand speaking to a friend of the sister could be viewed as 'sliding in' or potentially making my ex feel uncomfortable but even though my ex and I had no mutuals the sister's friend used to work in mental health area and was highly concerned about my mother (she even visited her once) so she has been like a guardian angel about the place.

I even broached it with the sister's friend during the phone call - 'I don't want to put you in a position where you are conflicted speaking to me because my ex doesn't want me to' to which she replied 'she was good at keeping personal boundaries and would 're-assess if my ex didn't want her speaking to me'.

It would be really good if there was some way of letting her know I'm available for if the feelings do mellow, things don't work out with the exchange guy and she does contemplate giving it another go it would be a barrier if she didn't have some way of knowing my status without contacting me directly. I don't think she would have the courage to do that, but if she somehow knows I'm free it might embolden her to reach out if she is feeling lonely and if I am still feeling lonely why prolong the pain if we both (eventually) realise the breakdown was uniquely circumstantial, if we both reflect on how much we have gone through together, how much we want each other in our lives and see if we can give it another go together. Why fight it? To me it would preferable if she contacts me instead of continuing the dynamic of me chasing her with a puppy dog 'how are you?' message months down the line.

I would also like to know how long it lasts with this guy she branched to just because it's agonising to think that they may last long and that she really does believe it's love and sticks it out for years with this other guy. Not knowing either way is agonising.

Anyway if I just thought she was some floozie then I wouldn't be so hung up but I know how dedicated she was to me, the communication just sucked by the end and I became so worn out that I was an emotional basket case, the fixation with saving the unit and fighting for my grandmother's estate wore me out, me talking about it wore her out. Add working full time and financial pressure taking out loans and no other buddies to chill with and she became moan central. She fell out of love with me but the love was there otherwise she would not have stuck it out for so many years by my side.

History won't repeat because I will never be so wrapped up in these things again (my grandmother's estate case and my mother's bankruptcy issues and losing the family flat were once in a lifetime) and I know if something crops up in the future (like losing a house or a job I've held for years) that I can't be so negative especially around her because even though she keeps a poker face and seems strong, inside she is fragile and being so negative, so moaning all the time builds toxic resentment and takes it's toll. I will take the time to listen to her wax lyrical on what she is going through, what she wants to do, what places she wants to see and do my utmost to support it (after all I won't have the stress to worry about anymore with legal cases or my mother)

Nobody finds a soppy mope of a mess attractive.

Last edited by ConfusedLuke; 31st January 2018 at 1:12 PM..
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Old 31st January 2018, 1:30 PM   #73
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Good Luck with your approach. You have to do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable.
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Old 31st January 2018, 1:36 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by CantTakeMySmile View Post
Good Luck with your approach. You have to do whatever makes you feel the most comfortable.
Thanks, and I understand it isn't for everyone and some may be cynical and thinks it prolongs the misery but for me it allows me some kind of focus.

And I am under no allusions of the outcome being nothing, if it is like at the end I put it all out there.

I would feel absolutely nothing else I could do.
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Old 31st January 2018, 3:17 PM   #75
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Luke, trust me, that letter is far too long to send to someone, especially a recent ex. It will not be received the way you hope. If you must send her something, and I highly advise against it, I would condense it to maybe a page at the most.
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