[2sunny]

I'm super sorry to point this out but I feel like the affair is just ongoing but underground.

It's her behavior that leads me to have that conclusion.

Have you placed a voice activated recorder in her purse yet?

I still have this nagging feeling she's doing things she doesn't intend for you to find out. I think it's beyond time to see what she may be saying to someone else while you're not with her. Put it in her purse.

I'm not big on spying - but since it seems like she's never going to give you her total honesty you have every right to find out what she's thinking.

[Owl]

NH...here's the problem. His method 'assumes' she has an interest in repairing the damage done by her affair...which is not the case at all in your situation.

There's no remorse, no regret, no acceptance for responsibility of her actions.

There's no desire to admit that there was damage done by her affair.

How does he plan on getting her to the point where she's willing to repair the damage she's done? That's the part that seems to be missing here.

Or even on that "broader level plan"...your wife isn't willing to participate in working to fix anything. She's not willing to admit that SHE has any changes to make at all.

HOW does he plan on getting her to that point before you lose interest in trying to rebuild the marriage/pay him for this advice?

HOW does he plan on getting her to attend?

IF his plan all hinges on getting her willing cooperation...his plan's first step has to be how to get that cooperation.

Otherwise your wasting time and money.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by Owl

NH...here's the problem. His method 'assumes' she has an interest in repairing the damage done by her affair...which is not the case at all in your situation.

There's no remorse, no regret, no acceptance for responsibility of her actions.

There's no desire to admit that there was damage done by her affair.

How does he plan on getting her to the point where she's willing to repair the damage she's done? That's the part that seems to be missing here.

Or even on that "broader level plan"...your wife isn't willing to participate in working to fix anything. She's not willing to admit that SHE has any changes to make at all.

HOW does he plan on getting her to that point before you lose interest in trying to rebuild the marriage/pay him for this advice?

HOW does he plan on getting her to attend?

IF his plan all hinges on getting her willing cooperation...his plan's first step has to be how to get that cooperation.

Otherwise your wasting time and money.

Yup, and that's why I don't plan on doing anymore Harley sessions unless my W is part of it...or it's her solo session.

I'm going to talk to her about it 1 more time this week. I'm also waiting to see if OM comes back knowing I'm there now.

If she is not going to do anything..and if OM is there again on Fri, I'll expose to sensei at least this weekend. I actually tried to call OMW yesterday to warn her I was thinking of that. She didn't answer though...and I had to hear his accursed voice on the answering machine D= I called from work, so caller ID wouldn't tell it was me...though they could possibly guess it was me. I might try to call her again. I'm dying to know where she stands in all of this. It kills me that I put together all that info for her and I still haven't heard anything 2 months later.

[Ninja'sHusband]

HAH!!! Look what I found!


Exposure: When Should An Affair Be Exposed? - Marriage Builders® Forums

tidbits from it:

I know from my own counseling with Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers around D-day that she was very careful, almost reticent, about exposure. I KNOW that she was NOT for exposing to the world, and I believe all the Harleys were in some stage of reconsidering it. I think someone on the Forum quoted Steve Harley as saying he was more conservative than his dad about this issue, and even his dad was reconsidering it.

Dr. Harley’s answer to Forum member’s questions:

It’s true that I have only addressed the issue of exposure on Marriage Builders® Radio and on the private Forum that is only available to those who attend the Marriage Builders® Weekend. So here goes my definitive answer that will help explain what may seem as contradictions from both Steve Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers.

There you go, there's dissension among the Harleys on this.

[Ninja'sHusband]

HAH!!! Look what I found!

Tidbits from an article I found:

I know from my own counseling with Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers around D-day that she was very careful, almost reticent, about exposure. I KNOW that she was NOT for exposing to the world, and I believe all the Harleys were in some stage of reconsidering it. I think someone on the Forum quoted Steve Harley as saying he was more conservative than his dad about this issue, and even his dad was reconsidering it.

Dr. Harley’s answer to Forum member’s questions:

It’s true that I have only addressed the issue of exposure on Marriage Builders® Radio and on the private Forum that is only available to those who attend the Marriage Builders® Weekend. So here goes my definitive answer that will help explain what may seem as contradictions from both Steve Harley and Jennifer Harley Chalmers.

There you go, there's dissension among the Harleys on this.

[Bellechica]

NH.....I hate to say it but I think she is still longing for him. In some ways she might be a lot like me....sorry, I know you don't want to hear that. Quiting the OM is hard when there is still contact and she is choosing contact.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by Bellechica

NH.....I hate to say it but I think she is still longing for him. In some ways she might be a lot like me....sorry, I know you don't want to hear that. Quiting the OM is hard when there is still contact and she is choosing contact.

Hard for me to know through the lies... there are other understandable reasons she clings to this dojo (posted before)...but every second I get more resolve to just expose this damn thing and watch where the pieces fall. I've done my plan A. It worked. She's back in the M. Seems kinda sadistic to get her back in love w\me and the effing knife her in such a way..but she's knifing me every week and it has to stop! And now is the perfect time, if she's like to stay it's now, after I've wooed her back.

My knife is simply the truth, and the truth is good no matter how painful. The other way is filing for D, which I don't want, she doesn't want, and my daughter most definitely doesn't want. D will hurt all of us in much worse ways than me telling the truth. Aggggg F Steve...

patience...patience. I'm giving things until Saturday...then I'm am so set. This **** is coming out. If she D's me after that, the D and the A are on her. All I did was tell the truth and it's the right thing to do for sure.

[Bellechica]

How is the intimacy with her NH? Is she doing loving things for you?

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by Bellechica

How is the intimacy with her NH? Is she doing loving things for you?

Everyday stuff yes. Being a good fun companion, keeping care of the house, cooking, sex, and recently saying she loved me. It's feeling more and more like it's supposed to...except with OM bursting his evil head into my life and her providing the means for it to happen.

Apart from seeing OM at the dojo on Fri, the last 2 weeks have been our best in a long time. Feels kinda wrong to destroy it all(hopefully temporarily), I just know it's not sustainable for me.

[Bellechica]

She should tell you she loves you everyday. I think if she knows that it's killing you inside that age goes to the dojo and OM is there then she should not go. She should do anything you ask.....

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by Bellechica

She should tell you she loves you everyday. I think if she knows that it's killing you inside that age goes to the dojo and OM is there then she should not go. She should do anything you ask.....

I wish she'd do that, and tell me she was truly sorry every day ='(

[Bellechica]

Have you told her about what everyone in your "support group" is saying? Even me.....the one living the lie believes she needs to do more. You're giving so much when she is the one who should give to you.

[drifter777]

Originally Posted by Ninja'sHusband

My knife is simply the truth, and the truth is good no matter how painful. The other way is filing for D, which I don't want, she doesn't want, and my daughter most definitely doesn't want. D will hurt all of us in much worse ways than me telling the truth. Aggggg F Steve...

As Jack Nicholson would say, "you can't handle the truth!" Saving your marriage has been a lost cause for months and you continue to live in a fantasy world.

Your wife has demonstrated through her behavior that she doesn't want to stay married. You are not saving your daughter from anything by continuing to live a lie. You've said over and over that you don't think the current situation with you and your wife is affecting your daughter at all because you hide it so well. I don't believe that it is possible to hide what is going on from her no matter how hard you try.

It takes courage to do the right thing. Do you honestly think staying in your current situation is the right thing? Believe me, I know that the idea of leaving your marriage and starting a new life is terrifying. I know that right now you cannot imagine a life without your wife. You need to (finally) take a leap of faith that life will get better when you leave this dead, hollow shell of a marriage behind. You care so deeply for your daughter I can't see that a divorce would affect her as much as the high stress, high tension atmosphere you are subjecting her to now. Being a good father is not dependent on you living with her mother.

[2sunny]

Originally Posted by Owl

NH...here's the problem. His method 'assumes' she has an interest in repairing the damage done by her affair...which is not the case at all in your situation.

There's no remorse, no regret, no acceptance for responsibility of her actions.

There's no desire to admit that there was damage done by her affair.

How does he plan on getting her to the point where she's willing to repair the damage she's done? That's the part that seems to be missing here.

Or even on that "broader level plan"...your wife isn't willing to participate in working to fix anything. She's not willing to admit that SHE has any changes to make at all.

HOW does he plan on getting her to that point before you lose interest in trying to rebuild the marriage/pay him for this advice?

HOW does he plan on getting her to attend?

IF his plan all hinges on getting her willing cooperation...his plan's first step has to be how to get that cooperation.

Otherwise your wasting time and money.

This is all very true.

Since there no admitting that things need to CHANGE (from HER end) - you can expect NO CHANGE.

But - you CAN only expect change IF IT COMES FROM YOU.

She obviously likes the status quo as for now - which is part of what makes me suspicious that she's still in contact with her OM.

You're somewhat "off her back" and she's keeping you quiet with playing pretty wife - getting sex- and NOT having to DO everything you require! The perfect situation to resume her affair... Of course it means you need to not notice certain nuances - ones you won't notice since she's over accommodating and overcompensating "enough" to where you won't dig deeper and find her little loophole.

Affair partners always have backup plans and plan for "that loophole".

She's banking on you not digging into the fine details to see "her evidence" that it has resumed.

I think the OM's wife may be a good source at this point!

She may be capable of providing some info you can deem useful.


You can spend money on counseling. It will be useful money spent if you go at it with the idea of becoming the best YOU you can possibly be (wih or without your W). A divorce is more costly than counseling! ;-)

Improving yourself will NEVER be wasted money!!!

The counselors you've been using aren't helping - so I'd suggest changing therapists. Harley isn't the ONLY one who can help you. We've all been in YOUR SHOES... Life experiences counts for a lot. I can tell you what worked for me and what didn't. We all know it's up to YOU to make decisions that are in your best interest. Don't knock us for throwing out there our truth and what we've lived through - there's value in what everyone here has experienced.

It's best to honor yourself and to NOT allow her to dishonor YOU.saying NO has value.

Since she says she lives you - it would be nice if she had further action and growth that showed that EVIDENCE by becoming WILLING to repair the damage she's done. It's not YOURS to fix.

If your wife makes a decision NOT to improve HERSELF - then all she's offering you is her same OLD cheating self. If that's the case - YOU DESERVE BETTER. No need to settle! Love yourself enough to not settle.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Originally Posted by Bellechica

Have you told her about what everyone in your "support group" is saying? Even me.....the one living the lie believes she needs to do more. You're giving so much when she is the one who should give to you.

Yes I have. I told her I have a whole crowd of people screaming at me to leave her. She just doesn't answer. She once told me she's just waiting for that other shoe to drop. Well it may just drop. I'm actually a little afraid for myself if I tell sensei...she's gonna go nuts...but I've been surprised before. She wasn't mad at all when she found out I had contacted OMW. When I told FIL, he already knew.