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Struggling guys told to "date-within-your-league"


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Old 8th November 2017, 10:58 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by OneLov View Post
"The results showed that as long as a man was considered attractive or moderately attractive, both mothers and daughters would pick the guy who had the most desirable personality traits. But when an unattractive male was paired with the most highly desirable personality profile, neither daughters nor mothers rated him as favorably as a potential romantic partner, compared with better-looking men with less desirable personalities."
That makes sense to me, meaning the existence of a threshold in physical attractiveness below which the lack of attractiveness is truly qualitative/disqualifying, and above which it is quantitative and combined with other selection criteria. I personally function similarly.
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Old 8th November 2017, 11:28 AM   #47
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They call it the Lovett test
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Old 8th November 2017, 11:43 AM   #48
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It's not about settling.


When most people hear "league" they think looks. Telling somebody to date somebody they aren't attracted to is not helpful.


However, encouraging somebody to date people with like interests & like lifestyles is good advice. While big stretches & fairy tale romances do happen they are unlikely.
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Old 8th November 2017, 12:22 PM   #49
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You said you're not sure about leagues concept because you've seen people in "lower leagues" with people in "higher leagues". So you're not denying leagues may exist, you're just saying if they do you've seen people will date outside their league often.
There's this study I remember reading is that women are happier when married to less attractive men. Both people are happier and the marriage is less likely to dissolve.
Similar studies have been replicated numerous times. http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?do...-3200.22.1.135
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._and_behaviors

Basically, in the study that I am referring to, they took newlywed couples and had strangers rate the individuals (incidentally, the strangers rated them pretty similarly, lending to the idea that there is some 'objectivity' to attractiveness) and then they rated them for satisfaction. The women who were married to men viewed as less attractive were the happiest, followed by men with attractive wives(previous studies have concluded this), then people with similar attractiveness lvls.
Sure. Men and women are drawn to different things though. Men are drawn primarily to looks, whereas women are drawn more to strength of personality, confidence, ect. These strangers were evaluating these men's attractiveness on the basis of looks, which matters much less.

But even that...chances are the couple connected, and the connection can't simply be explained by 'we're both about as good-looking as each other' or even 'I'm better-looking than he is but he has a better career and makes more money so I fell for him' (I am assuming that the couple is genuinely in love and that these aren't marriages where at least one person decided to settle). Hell, if you read the threads on here, lots of women and men go for partners with lots of problems all the time. People aren't evaluating potential romantic partners with some scorecard or anything.

If a guy struggles with women, it probably isn't his looks. But I digress. Getting back to the original topic, OP, where do you think "unattractive" guys are told to go for "less attractive" women, and why do you think guys are given this advice more than the opposite gender is? As I mentioned in my other posts on here, I am not seeing this.
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Old 8th November 2017, 12:31 PM   #50
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Hell, if you read the threads on here, lots of women and men go for partners with lots of problems all the time.
And I'd bet my right b**b those partners are out of their league in terms of something. Most of the women that come on here complaining about a guy shes been on a few dates and slept with and he faded her and I know he's good looking and/or successful. Same with the guys who put up with cheating and other crap from the women...bet you she's good looking relative to him.

Last edited by Cookiesandough; 8th November 2017 at 12:41 PM..
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Old 8th November 2017, 2:32 PM   #51
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And I'd bet my right b**b those partners are out of their league in terms of something. Most of the women that come on here complaining about a guy shes been on a few dates and slept with and he faded her and I know he's good looking and/or successful. Same with the guys who put up with cheating and other crap from the women...bet you she's good looking relative to him.
I think Cookies has a dog, and its name is Bingo!

The fact that a lot of guys operate under this misguided belief that looks aren't all that important to women is likely the answer to OP's question. More average looking guys go after "super hot" women because they do not respect that we, men and women--humans, are more alike than different when it comes to attraction. And because they hold onto the belief that looks aren't that important to women, they do not understand why they are not having success going after women more objectively attractive than themselves despite being having some mutual interests and having a great personality, job, status, etc..

In reference to the Live Science article:

"Guys, however, are less concerned with their own looks when deciding whom to date, the findings suggest. So while a man might have no qualms about going after someone much better looking than he is, a woman will tend more to choose partners with compatible looks.

Another recent study suggests that, in general, for both men and women physical attractiveness guides cupid's arrow
."

If you accept that both men and women value physical attractiveness, I can see how this would be more of a problem for guys.
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Old 8th November 2017, 2:37 PM   #52
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Leagues are mostly about looks but other factors affect it. Is he rich? Broke? Is she a single mom with 4 young kids by different dudes? Does the guy have a respectable career like a doctor? Is she a crazy drug addict? All of those things can affect it, and who you are able to date.

Yes, if you are struggling dating, man or woman, if you lower your standards your struggles will pretty much cease. I can guarantee it. Dudes, if you can't get a girl to dig you, it's because she doesn't wanna bang you, end of story. Those less attractive girls you don't notice as easily, they might be a bit more willing. Problem solved. Ladies, if men keep ghosting on you after sex, he can do better, or at least he thinks he can. Maybe date a dude that drinks a 6 pack instead of sculps one on his abdomen. He might stick around for another date.

99 times out of 100, dating issues are just superficial.
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Old 8th November 2017, 2:41 PM   #53
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Whenever I hear someone telling a struggling guy to date in his league, I assume that the person giving the advice has no clue about involuntary celibacy. Guys who struggle with dating aren't failing because of their pickiness. Instead, they are struggling because of major problems like anxiety, social awkwardness, isolation, mentalillness, and cognitive impairments.

A lot of incel guys lackbasic life skills. They can’t live on their own because their parents never taught them simple life skills and these guys are unable to motivate themselvesto get out their comfort zone. Some of these guys are lazy. Others of them are struggling with cognitive impairments like Autism. These guys need to see a therapist or life coach. I don’t think that these guys are going to solve anything dating a woman who has some extra pounds.

It’s so obvious why these guys are incel. They stand out in a bad way by dressing up like a little kid. Or they are so quiet and stifled that they can’t do something simple like showing more than one emotion or expressing an opinion.

I could care less about what scientific study you guys cite. These guys are behind in the dating game because they fail to do minimum things like smiling or following simple directions.They need professional help.
By the way, I do see incel guys wasting their time hitting on the hottest women in the room. Their pickiness is only a symptom of the fact that they lack basic awareness about what women are attracted to.

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Old 8th November 2017, 3:08 PM   #54
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Yes, if you are struggling dating, man or woman, if you lower your standards your struggles will pretty much cease. I can guarantee it. Dudes, if you can't get a girl to dig you, it's because she doesn't wanna bang you, end of story. Those less attractive girls you don't notice as easily, they might be a bit more willing.
Dating down has never worked for me, probably because it becomes obvious very easily. What always worked for me instead is expanding number or types of women you are considering. (She may not be interested, but her friend is just as cute.)

But ultimately a lot of factors come into play. I used to be a skinny, pimply, stuttering science nerd in my early 20s, studying something that had a 30 to 1 male to female ratio. I had no trouble finding women, and that has to do with being willing to do whatever needs to be done, regardless of the associated risk. (A skill that helps me in my professional life to this very day.)
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Old 8th November 2017, 3:31 PM   #55
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Dating down just never (almost never) works for one simple reason the inferior partner faces daily her/his worst fear: seeing he/she cannot measure up to the standard set by the superior partner.

The result: the inferior partner either cheats on the superior one (in attempt to show them he/she has power to negatively affect them) or try to sabotage them in some other way (eg playing up their weaknesses).
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Old 8th November 2017, 3:56 PM   #56
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http://http://nypost.com/2017/09/13/...rince-science/

Science is fun! Women are happier with uglier dudes.
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Old 8th November 2017, 4:10 PM   #57
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this whole thing makes me want to participate in relationships even less!!!

Last edited by Cookiesandough; 8th November 2017 at 4:20 PM..
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Old 8th November 2017, 4:22 PM   #58
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Head's up on a wider issue brought to our attention which could impact this and similar threads...

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/08/...nce-crackdown/

We'll be watching threads like this one more closely for gender warring, misogynist/misandrist postings, etc. The directive is to address the topic and refrain from hyperbole, name-calling, baiting, etc.

Thanks!
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Old 8th November 2017, 4:43 PM   #59
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I couldn't agree more with those who are discussing social skills as being the problem rather than leagues. Often, the guys who can't get a girl are ones who also have few friends. They often have a history of not being able to talk with women. They don't like socialising in typical ways.

The one thing I would say about leagues is to suggest a 'social league'. If a guy struggles with the usual social connections, he's more likely to succeed with a woman who's similar.
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Old 8th November 2017, 4:53 PM   #60
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Yes, Basil. For instance, I don't have thousands so-called friends or followers on social medias and have only a dozen true and life long friends. I'm barely social and I wouldn't post on forums otherwise. Yet I am quite able of socializing during an event, and people will even tell my mutual friends "This guys come accross as a pretty good, knowledgeable fellow".

So I am more comfortable about dating someone like me. A bit geeky, possibly nerdy who doesn't wish or need to party every evening.

I also agree that regarding career, fairy tales aren't common. I have all the respect due to a simple firefighter or janitor, but they rarely land a relationship with a lawyer or doctor. Life is cruel like that.
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