Men don't need marriage!

[MySugaree]

I can clearly see why I really must stay away from the "The Other Man / Woman" section. And I'll try to restrain myself from posting my view on that subject - because (just thinking about it makes my blood boil) it's a section where each will fight their own little corner to death.

 

Well said: The most vicious battles are fought, here. And, at the end, feelings are hurt, people are insulted and no one is any better for the exchange.

[luvtoto]

Well said: The most vicious battles are fought, here. And, at the end, feelings are hurt, people are insulted and no one is any better for the exchange.

Yep. We all want to be right, but in the end, it doesn't really matter.

[katiebour]

Besides cases of the habitual cheater, are you saying the Husband in the case of a cheating wife had nothing to do with that woman's decision to cheat or the wife in the case of the cheating husband.

 

 

I agree with some of the previous posters on this- if it came to cheating I would rather break up with my boyfriend (or divorce him if he was my husband) than cheat on him. He deserves better. I would probably first talk with him, go to a counselor with him, and if the problem of needs not being met was not resolved, I would give him a choice- either attempt to rectify the situation or be prepared for a divorce.

 

Nowhere in there is it assumed that cheating would solve the problem or hold the marriage together. And frankly, if you are the type of person who would honor your marriage vows, then you know that cheating is wrong! It isn't about justifying behavior, it's about judging whether behavior is right or wrong, and making your own choice about your actions.

 

And for those of you who say divorce is not an option? Here's an interesting article on annullments:

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/Catholic-annulment.html

 

Annulments are granted for a variety of reasons. The most common reasons presented to tribunals are a lack of due discretion, defective consent, and psychological incapacity. Some annulments are for minor technicalities, and rarely involve more than filling out the correct forms. For example, if one of the parties had a prior bond (was married in the Catholic sense of the word) at the time of the wedding. There is also defect of form, which includes marriages performed by a non-Catholic minister, or weddings held outside of a Catholic Church. More than half of all the annulments granted are for defect of form.

 

 

 

Annulments granted for lack of due discretion are given in cases when the complainant hastily chose marriage when this would not have been the best option. Such as a woman who found herself pregnant and rushed to the altar, only to find out her husband didn't take care of his family. Defective consent includes cases where a party to the marriage said "I do" to a complete lie. That is, one of the entrants to the marriage presented a false picture of him- or herself. The annulment is granted if the deception is substantial enough to amount to a serious fraud.

 

 

 

Finally, an annulment may be granted for psychological incapacity, in the case of a mentally-challenged individual or a minor. It is impossible for a person to promise to do something that he or she is not capable of doing. The Roman Rota has traditionally upheld that people who are mentally handicapped, or those diagnosed with certain neuroses, psychoses, or with paranoid schizophrenia, are not capable of living up to the conditions of a canon marriage.

 

It sounds like there's some wiggle room. If I were a Catholic trapped in a bad marriage (I am neither) I would seek out this process.

 

/shrug

 

If you can't get out of it because you honor your marriage and don't believe in divorce, then continue to honor those vows by remaining faithful, or reconsider your views on the subject.

[Scrivdog]

Exactly! People crack me up when they say crap like "why didn't you just stay single?" or even better "Why don't you do the honorable thing and get divorced (and abandon the kids)?"

 

Men have too much to lose in these situations and so many hang on to the idea that things will turn around in the relationship at some point in the near future. They want to see their kids every day and they have no desire to live in a 1-bedroom apartment.

 

At the same time, it's a bit much to ask that a guy live a life of sexual deprivation when what he promised was monogamy, not celibacy.

 

 

Many cake men intend on having a happy, loving and long lasting marriage but after years of being married to a woman that

 

Nags him 24/7

Resents for reasons he can't even begin to figure out

Refuses to be intimate with him

Constantly walks around with that sour look of contempt. Men know what I am talking about when I say that look

 

it feels good when another woman actually treats him well. Most of these men are trapped because if they leave they will never see the kids again and they will be cleaned out in divorce so they seek love elsewhere to take the edge off the crap at home.

[lonelybird]

Isn't a marriage about getting your needs met in some form or another ?.. well if you don't get your needs met then moving on to a relationship where you do might be something to look into..

 

If a supplier of yours is missing his deadlines and backorders stuff on you then charges you high prices for crappy service and after you call them out on the carpet and they keep up the same bad service do you not replace them with a new supplier ?....

Sounds terrible. Marriage is about "how to serve other" and "how to grow as a mature person", not "how to meet my needs". IF society today know this, won't have so many divorces. and if every time your spouse cannot meet your needs, you change parters, how can you grow spiritually?

[lonelybird]

If Divorce wasn't an option … but committing adultery was … I'd say that person placed more value on the 'marital contract' than the actual human being they were married to.

 

People aren't papered possessions. And I would sooner spit on a contract than in the face of someone I was supposed to care for and protect.

No, "commit adultery' and 'break vow' are all sinful in God's eyes. You cannot avoid a mistake by commiting another mistake.

People tend to put their feeling or chemical before spiritual growth.

[johan]

From what I've observed it's women who file the majority of divorces. I've also noticed that women deal with being single much better than men do. I'd say the title of this post has it backwards. It's women who don't need marriage.

[lonelybird]

Don't know what to say. Today's women and men were feeded too much negative things by this society. I hate Satan.

[Moose]

If you can't get out of it because you honor your marriage and don't believe in divorce, then continue to honor those vows by remaining faithful, or reconsider your views on the subject.

My whole point is that my views aren't open to reconsideration. I made those vows not only in the presence of mere man, but with God present as well.

 

So I will honor my vows, and remain faithful regardless of the wordly view(s).

 

Men don't need marriage?

 

Marriage needs more men.

[Scrivdog]

My whole point is that my views aren't open to reconsideration. I made those vows not only in the presence of mere man, but with God present as well.

 

So I will honor my vows, and remain faithful regardless of the wordly view(s).

 

Men don't need marriage?

 

Marriage needs more men.

 

Ever consider that your sanctimonious BS hides your fear of making a choice? It's easier to lay it on on God than to accept that staying in a sexless marriage is a choice you're making every day. Your persistent advertisement of your "honor" is not only nauseating, but it clearly shows that you're getting a payoff for this. Maybe you get a kick out of being a victim. Every sexless night and every rejected advance is just another martyr's whip lashing on your back. You can then brandish the scars and welts on your back, come on this board and talk about the fact that you can take it and in fact, you're ready for more as though this somehow makes you a "man".

[CynicalP]

Ever consider that your sanctimonious BS hides your fear of making a choice? It's easier to lay it on on God than to accept that staying in a sexless marriage is a choice you're making every day. Your persistent advertisement of your "honor" is not only nauseating, but it clearly shows that you're getting a payoff for this. Maybe you get a kick out of being a victim. Every sexless night and every rejected advance is just another martyr's whip lashing on your back. You can then brandish the scars and welts on your back, come on this board and talk about the fact that you can take it and in fact, you're ready for more as though this somehow makes you a "man".

 

 

Ouch, kind of a low blow there. Why attack the man for his personal beliefs? They have no impact upon you.

[Scrivdog]

Ouch, kind of a low blow there. Why attack the man for his personal beliefs? They have no impact upon you.

 

Hey, I'm on his side here. I think he's being victimized and he's allowing to happen under the covers of a belief. But now he's using that belief to make himself out to be superior. I'm afraid that's all a smokescreen from the discomfort of a painful decision.

[a4a]

Sounds terrible. Marriage is about "how to serve other" and "how to grow as a mature person", not "how to meet my needs". IF society today know this, won't have so many divorces. and if every time your spouse cannot meet your needs, you change parters, how can you grow spiritually?

 

 

Well the first step is not to change partners but find a way to get them to meet your needs. If you exhaust this and have tried 110% to get them to realize this then you should leave them.

 

You can grow spiritually through yourself..... no partner needed for that. At times I think we grow and learn more with the more partners we have had in life.

 

Love is selfish, you do not stay with someone unless they are providing you with something that you want. Fantasy unconditional love is not a reality...... you can love through obligation and guilt however. But then you are getting something as well..... relief from guilt.

[a4a]

Hey, I'm on his side here. I think he's being victimized and he's allowing to happen under the covers of a belief. But now he's using that belief to make himself out to be superior. I'm afraid that's all a smokescreen from the discomfort of a painful decision.

 

well I got to wonder how a god feels about this.......

 

I am not being a smartass but does any god want a believer to suffer?

 

Do you get some sort of bonus points when you hit the gates and say..... "I made a promise not to divorce and I have suffered greatly for it"

 

not a religious/belief attack at all...... and I don't think he needs a divorce I think he needs to be blunt with his wife and use some other tatics to refresh his marriage and perhaps not be so rigid in his thinking in general. IMHO.........

[Topper]

It's funny, Some think That divorce isa sin. Thats not at all true. The Bible does have clear provisions for divorce. In fact to be Biblical a Man or a Woman can get Divorced if they say publicly I divorce you three times. Thats all it takes.

[Moose]

Hey, I'm on his side here. I think he's being victimized and he's allowing to happen under the covers of a belief. But now he's using that belief to make himself out to be superior. I'm afraid that's all a smokescreen from the discomfort of a painful decision.

Just because I don't believe divorce is an out, doesn't mean I'm sitting back letting these things go.

 

In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact that divorce isn't an option for me forces me to work it out with my spouse and come to a MUTUALLY beneficial solution.

 

It may take a day, a week, a month or 10 years. It doesn't matter to me, as long as we continue to recognize the issue and continue to work for the solution.

Do you get some sort of bonus points when you hit the gates and say..... "I made a promise not to divorce and I have suffered greatly for it"

I don't know about that.....it's certainly not my thought.....

[Art_Critic]

The fact that divorce isn't an option for me forces me to work it out with my spouse and come to a MUTUALLY beneficial solution.

 

Does your wife think the same way ? and if she does then does she think no sex life is mutually beneficial ?

[JackJack]

Just because I don't believe divorce is an out, doesn't mean I'm sitting back letting these things go.

 

In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact that divorce isn't an option for me forces me to work it out with my spouse and come to a MUTUALLY beneficial solution.

 

 

I can see this, and I agree. For me its about trying to work on things and come to some kind of understanding if possible. I can't see bailing on a marriage because something is not going my way. Marraige is work its true. And I do think those who do not want to do the work in a marriage, are the ones who probably should not get married. JMO.

[Moose]

Does your wife think the same way ? and if she does then does she think no sex life is mutually beneficial ?

Yes, she thinks the same way. But no she doesn't think a no sex marriage is beneficial.

 

She knows it's damaging. And she's well aware of the problem especially here lately. She is working with me on it, and she's owned up that it's mostly her fault. (although THAT'S still in the air, I'm not one to let her take the whole fall).

 

We both know it's going to take communication and work to get to the root of that problem.....

[serial muse]

I wanted to PM you, Cynical, so as not to thread-jack. But I don't think your PMs are enabled. So I'll respond more generally.

 

My point to a4a quote is how a person reacts to their envirnoment impacts the decisions that they make. Sure people can choose not to cheat, but if they were in a good relationship and their needs being met by the other partner the person making the decision is less likely to do so. She's right that ultimately that person is responsible for that decision but there where causal factors that help contribute to that decision in the first place. There are two sides to every story and as I said no decision is made in a vacuum which I believe also to be true. You cannot dismiss nor ignore those causal factors.

 

But you see, this is NOT a gender issue, which prompted my original response. Why make it into one? Regardless of whether or not I agree with you about cheating, this has nothing to do with men or women. My "sister" comment existed solely because a4a is a woman, who said something I agree with. That's it!! Taking it as some sort of female solidarity against men is a weird kind of paranoia.

 

To answer your question, No, I have never cheated on anyone. To share some of my life story, My father cheated on my mother with multiple women. I hated my Father for the longest time. I was just a teenager when my Mother discovered the truth and it was devasting to her. My parent seperated for about five years, but as soon as I left home my father moved back in with Mom. They never divorced because as catholics they are taught divorce is not an option.

 

Now before you label father as just a cheater also know the good qualities he possessed. He was a loving, hard working, and very devoted to his family. He did whatever he could to ensure that his wife and kids where well feed, comfortable, and free from want. He was heavily involved with his church and helped out his community whenever he had a spare moment. He would never purposely hurt anyone. Overall he has a decent, moral man, but he was also human.

 

Now that I am in a sexless marriage, I can understand why my father decided to cheat. My mom while I never discussed it with her (sex was never mentioned in my household ever.), probably only had sex in order to have kids. I doubt she fulfilled my Dad sexual needs at all. My Dad being a relatively attractive man and more importantly very successful man, falter to the temptations. He made that decision that alot people try to rationalize in the heads that they can satisify both their marriage obligations and satisfied their phyiscal/sexual needs. Unfortunately, despite his discreetness his history caught with him and my Mom did discover the truth.

 

So I understand the dilemma in a new light now. My mom made the decision to ingore his needs and He made the decision to find relief of his needs outside his marriage. Knowing the character of my father, if my mother did satisfy his needs I doubt he would have made that decision to cheat. I have forgiven my father but I have learned from his mistakes.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. It's not that I'm unaware of the different potential causes of cheating, or that I haven't spent years thinking about them. I'm a former BS and I've spent plenty of time examining my own situation and seeking to place the blame on myself. I've also spent a lot of time on these boards, looking for answers and thinking about everyone's stories, like yours and those on the infidelity boards and the OW/OM boards, and trying to take them all in and think about why people can be so awful to each other rather than owning their own behavior.

 

And the one answer that I have come up with is this: am I partially to blame for the end of my marriage? Yes. I have spent plenty of time thinking about it and crying over it - no need to worry that I'm blaming it all on the menfolk. Gentlemen, please hear me: many women that I know (and also see on these boards) are experts at blaming themselves, far past the point of reasonableness. This paranoia that women take no responsibility is GROSSLY misplaced.

 

But, do I think I am to blame for him cheating? No, I don't. He chose that path, out of many possible paths and ways to handle his unhappiness. Everything else is, as you say, semantics. I understand that it's not easy - nothing ever is. But it is simple. And that's all I have to say about that.

 

Your absolutely right I don't know your life story should I be aware of your history before I can make a comment?

 

Before you can make a personal comment, regarding my potential outlook and what I meant to say? Well, yeah, of course I would prefer that.

 

My point was, I have strong feelings about cheating, having been cheated on, so I responded to her comment thusly. What I said has nothing to do with this nonsense gender war that is ongoing on these boards and in this very thread...it was about infidelity, full-stop - which I contest is not a gender issue.

 

Sorry you don't like "you go girls" and they summon up negative feelings in you about women and so forth. But that is neither here nor there, because I think it's clear I was responding quite specifically to a particular comment about infidelity, which I agreed with, rather than trying to stir up the sisterhood to beat down on the men.

 

Sigh.

[Sevenmack]

JackJack wrote:

 

In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact that divorce isn't an option for me forces me to work it out with my spouse and come to a MUTUALLY beneficial solution.

 

And this is why problems in relationships have to be worked on from day one, before they become unmanageable. If you simply let things slide just to avoid uncomfortable discussions or maintain a false face of happiness, you're just going to end up with almost insurmountable issues later on.

 

All relationships require communication and consideration to survive. Discussing issues is key. So is realizing that the person you love is a separate human being whose experiences and backgrounds can differ significantly from yours. This means reaching common ground.

 

And if you don't do the small, sweet things that everyone remembers -- a quick serenade via phone during the workday; making him a cup of coffee when he didn't even ask for it -- along with simply cleaning the house and checking up on them when you're out on a business trip, then it's going to be hard to make time for all that later on when children and the rest of the life pull at time.

 

And speaking of time: Make time for each other. If you're not scheduling time with one another, then the relationship is going to get lost in the shuffle of life. It happens way too often in relationships and almost always to the detriment of one another. Distance doesn't make the heart grow fonder, it just makes the heart indifferent to the one you love.

[crazy_grl]

I can see this, and I agree. For me its about trying to work on things and come to some kind of understanding if possible. I can't see bailing on a marriage because something is not going my way. Marraige is work its true. And I do think those who do not want to do the work in a marriage, are the ones who probably should not get married. JMO.

 

Right on.

[JackJack]

JackJack wrote:

 

In fact, it's quite the opposite. The fact that divorce isn't an option for me forces me to work it out with my spouse and come to a MUTUALLY beneficial solution.

 

 

Actually I wasn't the one who wrote that. Moose was, but I agreed with his point.

[CynicalP]

Thank you serial muse for your reply, I understand where you are coming from. I know full well the devasting effects cheating does to the person mental and emotional well being. I witnessed it first hand with my mother and I resented my father for the longest time. It's ugly situation for all involved.

 

I will admit there are men who will cheat regardless because believe they can get away with it or just don't care about the consquences of thier actions. However after spending some time reading this particular forum and reading numereous threads from men all describing a similiar situations I know exactly where they are coming from. They are stuck in an unfortunate situation and coping with it the best they can. Some say they should just get a divorce if they are unhappy, but most are not in hopeless marriage just a sexless marriage. They know and love their wives and value their marriages and famalies. These men are vulnerable though, and all it takes is that nudge of oppurtunity,temptation, and a moment of poor judgement. They might rationalize to themselves into thinking they can successfully juggle family man and having an intimate relationship with another woman. This is where my father failed and our family paid the price.

 

 

I might be overly sensitive to concerning my "you go girl" comment but I think it is justified. You can't watch T.V. , catch a movie , or flip through a magazine without seeing how the typical man is portayed either as a drooling, slackjaw nitwit or an intolerant abusive jerk. Show's like Oprah are a dime a dozen promoting woman's issues while at the same time bashing men. There is nothing wrong with promoting strong indepedent women but not when it is at the expensive of men. Our society has swung far from "father knows best" to "Father is a deadbeat idiot". I am really tired of men being society's scapegoat for all that is wrong. Perhaps this is the part of the reason why men are starting to feel marriage is just not worth it anymore.

 

I am sorry I unfairly single you and justagirlfover out. Both your comments just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

 

I too, do not wish to highjack the topic so if you wish to continue the dicussion we can create a new thread.

[MySugaree]

Males are easy to demonize--especially as our culture becomes increasingly feminized. That "boys will be boys" is neither politically correct nor terribly fashionable especially among the effete, professional, chattering classes.

 

Marriage contributes to the unmanning of many a man. Whether it's because of his spouse's endless badgering, sheer bossiness or sexlessness, more and more men are saying "no" to Marriage.

 

If that makes these marital deserters less than "men" in the eyes of many, so be it. Often it takes much more courage to leave a bad marriage than to stay and slog through a dead relationship to the bitter end. Marriage legitimates. Divorce and being single is hard.

 

Saying this, I have no sympathy for men who abandon their families physically, emotionally or financially. Those guys are turds.

 

At the end of the day, I'm infinitely happier single in my little apartment than I was after more than 20 years of exile in my sub-zero marriage. It's great to finally come in from the cold.