He says our sex probs are 90% me

[burning 4 revenge]

Wow, you were pretty rough Story. I don't know if I think you guys can ride out the next ten years. If you ride out the next decade I think you'll be together for life, but you seem a bit edgy and resentful. I imagine your husband must be hurt by all this, but I suppose it's necessary.

 

If you want to leave you should do it soon. If you feel you will only end up hating him for taking your life's opportunities then maybe you should do what you know needs to be done. It's worse if you stay with him and hate him for things he cannot change.

[Storyrider]

Wow, you were pretty rough Story. I don't know if I think you guys can ride out the next ten years. If you ride out the next decade I think you'll be together for life,

 

Is that because we will have evolved beyond the age at which sex is necessary? Haha.

 

but you seem a bit edgy and resentful. I imagine your husband must be hurt by all this, but I suppose it's necessary.

 

Did I seem rough? I didn't see myself that way. Which part?

 

If you want to leave you should do it soon. If you feel you will only end up hating him for taking your life's opportunities then maybe you should do what you know needs to be done. It's worse if you stay with him and hate him for things he cannot change.

 

I don't hate him. I really don't. Part of the reason I brought this up with him tonight is that he was talking about the teaching of the Church regarding chastity.

 

I've been wondering how I can continue teaching our daughters to wait until after marriage to have sex when I've recently come to believe it caused most of the sex problems in our marriage. I haven't told him yet, but I don't know if I can teach them that in good conscience.

[burning 4 revenge]

Im not sure what you mean about the lack of sex before marriage causing problems either, but if I were to guess I'd guess that you think you may have discovered you didn't feel compatible with him and would have left before commiting so seriously.

 

Of course you wouldn't encourage your daughters to be whores, but don't encourage chastity either. Sex before marriage is important, because people need to know if they are compatible, or not. And your situation proves it.

[magichands]

Sex before marriage is important, because people need to know if they are compatible, or not.

I don't believe that.

And your situation proves it.

Well, I guess you either swallow your spiritual guidance on the sex-before-marriage issue, or spit it out. I don't think anything is proven. You could say this proves that one size doesn't fit all... one can fool oneself into thinking that all situations have complications.

 

But do they really?

[alphamale]

Sex before marriage is important, because people need to know if they are compatible, or not. And your situation proves it.

vast majority have sex before marriage in western world....yet divorce rate still hovers around 60%. In eastern world sex before marriage is not the rule yet their divorce rates are much much lower.

[burning 4 revenge]

vast majority have sex before marriage in western world....yet divorce rate still hovers around 60%. In eastern world sex before marriage is not the rule yet their divorce rates are much much lower.

Well women who get stoned or decapitated don't have much opportunity for divorce.

[Storyrider]

I don't believe that.

 

My main thing isn't so much that having sex would have told us whether or not we are compatible. It is that we got into a pattern very early on of relating nonsexually (after the first six weeks, as he said himself tonight) and that is the way it stayed for years and years.

 

one can fool oneself into thinking that all situations have complications.

 

But do they really?

 

This is too cryptic even for me, haha. I don't understand what you mean.

[burning 4 revenge]

I don't believe that.

Then you live in a fairytale dreamworld.

[alphamale]

Well women who get stoned or decapitated don't have much opportunity for divorce.

ha Ha hA....womens still get beaten, raped and murdered here in your "sophisticated" United States of America. HAhaa ha

 

Tara Grant lived 15 miles from me. Month ago her husband killed her and cut her body up into 6 pieces.

[Storyrider]

Of course you wouldn't encourage your daughters to be whores, but don't encourage chastity either. Sex before marriage is important, because people need to know if they are compatible, or not. And your situation proves it.

 

vast majority have sex before marriage in western world....yet divorce rate still hovers around 60%. In eastern world sex before marriage is not the rule yet their divorce rates are much much lower.

 

I see almost all the problems with sex before marriage. I used to agree that they should wait. I don't want them f*cking their boyfriends in the backseats of cars at age 17. I don't want them to feel obligated to give some hs boy a blowjob because they think they love him, only to be ignored at school the next day.

 

Ideally, I'd like them to wait until they are 21 to have sex. I'd like them to have sex only with someone they love and think they might like to marry.

[magichands]

Then you live in a fairytale dreamworld.

Don't wake me up, you bastard.

[magichands]

This is too cryptic even for me, haha. I don't understand what you mean.

That there is always a "special case." Blah is a case in point, and this is why you need to charm the snake before marriage. No. No special cases.

 

I'm digging a deeper hole of crypticness.

[Crazy Eddie]

I see almost all the problems with sex before marriage. I used to agree that they should wait. I don't want them f*cking their boyfriends in the backseats of cars at age 17. I don't want them to feel obligated to give some hs boy a blowjob because they think they love him, only to be ignored at school the next day.

 

Ideally, I'd like them to wait until they are 21 to have sex. I'd like them to have sex only with someone they love and think they might like to marry.

 

So you want them to be celibate for 8 solid years? Would you willingly do that? Good luck.

[magichands]

So you want them to be celibate for 8 solid years? Would you willingly do that? Good luck.

You don't have to be crazy to have sex, but you will be if you don't get some.

 

A common misconception from the terminally horny. I would just hate to be a shepherd in these troubled times.

[Mustang Sally]

FWIW I don't think SR was harsh with the H. I thought we were on a "brutal honesty" kick here, lately, anyway.

 

But the point is, if you want to have a hope for making something work when you get to this point, you have to be upfront.

 

I have agree with those who say it's important to find out about sexual compatibilty before M. However, I'm not sure I buy into the thought that this is always possible, even if you are having pre-marital sex. I think 10-50 years of M, and all the other stuff that goes on between 2 people in a relationship like that can alter sexual compatibility.

[Storyrider]

In HS I thought if a boy wanted a BJ, it meant he loved me. Of course, that led to disappointment pretty fast.

 

Later, when I developed a head-over-heels worshipful crush on a boy and he broke my heart, I decided no one could really ever connect with anyone, and that we were all doomed to forever misunderstand each other, and look past each other. I got to the point where I didn't expect much from a relationship. That is how I ended up with five boyfriends in five years.

 

FWIW I don't think SR was harsh with the H. I thought we were on a "brutal honesty" kick here, lately, anyway.

 

But the point is, if you want to have a hope for making something work when you get to this point, you have to be upfront.

 

OK, so I meet H. He loves me but sees that I am broken, and he decides he will fix me. This was the stance he chose towards me. He would be my "shepherd" and my spiritual advisor and my psychotherapist. And he did an excellent job. But he (knowingly?) chose a stance toward me that would cool things off sexually.

 

Is he right that I was "broken" at that time in my life? Absolutely. And, in fact, he is the one who repaired me. Looking back, I wanted him to jump me, not fix me. As soon as he decided that it was his job to fix me, our sex life ended.

 

One part of the conversation last night that I forgot to report was this:

 

Me: I wanted to have sex with you early on.

 

H: You didn't even know me. You wouldn't have really been having sex with me but with a figment of your imagination.

 

I remember him saying this to me in the first six weeks of our relationship. I remember us messing around, and he actually said to me, "Why are you so hot and heavy? You can't possibly know me well enough to feel this aroused towards me. You are manufacturing this. It isn't real." And that was when I realized he was analyzing my sexual motives and finding them lacking, and that was when I started to shut down sexually.

 

I have agree with those who say it's important to find out about sexual compatibilty before M. However, I'm not sure I buy into the thought that this is always possible, even if you are having pre-marital sex. I think 10-50 years of M, and all the other stuff that goes on between 2 people in a relationship like that can alter sexual compatibility.

 

I feel like the only hope for our sex life is for me to develop amnesia about our past and renew the relationship on a new footing, with us as equals and lovers.

[a4a]

In HS I thought if a boy wanted a BJ, it meant he loved me. Of course, that led to disappointment pretty fast.

 

Later, when I developed a head-over-heels worshipful crush on a boy and he broke my heart, I decided no one could really ever connect with anyone, and that we were all doomed to forever misunderstand each other, and look past each other. I got to the point where I didn't expect much from a relationship. That is how I ended up with five boyfriends in five years.

 

 

 

OK, so I meet H. He loves me but sees that I am broken, and he decides he will fix me. This was the stance he chose towards me. He would be my "shepherd" and my spiritual advisor and my psychotherapist. And he did an excellent job. But he (knowingly?) chose a stance toward me that would cool things off sexually.

 

Is he right that I was "broken" at that time in my life? Absolutely. And, in fact, he is the one who repaired me. Looking back, I wanted him to jump me, not fix me. As soon as he decided that it was his job to fix me, our sex life ended.

 

One part of the conversation last night that I forgot to report was this:

 

Me: I wanted to have sex with you early on.

 

H: You didn't even know me. You wouldn't have really been having sex with me but with a figment of your imagination.

 

I remember him saying this to me in the first six weeks of our relationship. I remember us messing around, and he actually said to me, "Why are you so hot and heavy? You can't possibly know me well enough to feel this aroused towards me. You are manufacturing this. It isn't real." And that was when I realized he was analyzing my sexual motives and finding them lacking, and that was when I started to shut down sexually.

 

 

 

I feel like the only hope for our sex life is for me to develop amnesia about our past and renew the relationship on a new footing, with us as equals and lovers.

 

oh boy....... this is a mess.

 

I think I see some serious control issues and him projecting and molding you into what he expects, not what you want to be or are?

[Storyrider]

oh boy....... this is a mess.

 

I think I see some serious control issues and him projecting and molding you into what he expects, not what you want to be or are?

 

I willingly went along with the psychological/emotional/spiritual molding, but most of it occurred fifteen years ago. I can honestly say that for the most part he molded me into someone better.

 

But I agree with you a4a, that when someone tells you that you aren't doing sex the right way, it shuts you down.

 

(As a complete and total aside, my 3 yr old daughter just said to my 8 yr old daughter, "You're sucking my wiener!" On questioning, she says she heard it on the playground. They have no idea what it means, of course. Then they began chanting it over and over and wouldn't stop until I threatened them with time out, all the while trying not to laugh.)

[serial muse]

For what it’s worth, Story, I don’t see you as being particularly harsh in that conversation – certainly not any harsher than your husband was being.

 

I think the "no sex before marriage" thing is a bit of a red herring here - from everything you've written throughout this thread, I'd venture to say that the sexual issues you have with your husband are specific to your relationship with him, and not about any "crazy" neuroses you have about sex or anything else.

 

It looks to me like what happened in the early days of your relationship wasn’t so much that you got so used to relating non-sexually to him and thinking of him as an "advisor" until you couldn't go back...but that his disparaging comments about you and your sexuality pushed you away, characterizing you as a “crazy” dog in heat. Honestly, Story, he said some really nasty things there, in my opinion, and I’d say it’s no wonder you got turned off and shut down. I’d shut down, too, if my sexuality and desire were thrust back in my face with all that negative condescension.

 

That’s me being brutally honest. I thought your husband was quite cruel to you, and as I said a while back in this thread, I think he also has issues with being controlling. And it still seems to me that that’s what’s turning you off. Early on, he painted your sexuality as a negative, as something he needed to "fix" - and the terrible part is that he continues to do so, which is what prompted this thread. No wonder you feel no desire for him. I hope I haven't offended you, because you seem like such a cool lady and a great person. But seriously, reading what he wrote makes me very, very angry on your behalf.

[Storyrider]

For what it’s worth, Story, I don’t see you as being particularly harsh in that conversation – certainly not any harsher than your husband was being.

 

I think the "no sex before marriage" thing is a bit of a red herring here - from everything you've written throughout this thread, I'd venture to say that the sexual issues you have with your husband are specific to your relationship with him, and not about any "crazy" neuroses you have about sex or anything else.

 

It looks to me like what happened in the early days of your relationship wasn’t so much that you got so used to relating non-sexually to him and thinking of him as an "advisor" until you couldn't go back...but that his disparaging comments about you and your sexuality pushed you away, characterizing you as a “crazy” dog in heat. Honestly, Story, he said some really nasty things there, in my opinion, and I’d say it’s no wonder you got turned off and shut down. I’d shut down, too, if my sexuality and desire were thrust back in my face with all that negative condescension.

 

That’s me being brutally honest. I thought your husband was quite cruel to you, and as I said a while back in this thread, I think he also has issues with being controlling. And it still seems to me that that’s what’s turning you off. Early on, he painted your sexuality as a negative, as something he needed to "fix" - and the terrible part is that he continues to do so, which is what prompted this thread. No wonder you feel no desire for him. I hope I haven't offended you, because you seem like such a cool lady and a great person. But seriously, reading what he wrote makes me very, very angry on your behalf.

 

First of all serial muse, I'm not at all offended, so don't worry about that. I appreciate you listening and thinking about this.

 

I think you're right that his critical remarks shut down my desire, and this is hard to explain, but I've never considered his words to be disparaging. If he has ever said anything cruel to me, it was only because he thought it was true and needed to be said. Most of the time I appreciate his insight and candor.

 

About the sex, I think he judged wrongly because of his own prejudices and lack of experience. I think he is wrong that I didn't know him. Part of sex is getting to know someone. You don't get to know them completely first, check that off your list, and then start getting physical. Also, he was overanalyzing. Sex is one thing that doesn't benefit from intense analysis and dissection. It just makes it no fun.

 

So, I agree with the essence of what you're saying, except that I think if you knew him, you'd have a more balanced picture and he wouldn't seem so much like a bad guy.

 

On the other hand, getting angry and defending myself might have been a more healthy reaction. I'm sure stuffing my anger doesn't help in the sex department. It is just he is right so much of the time about the big things in life. It makes me give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps more often than I should. (There are plenty of little things he is wrong about every day, haha.)

[Mustang Sally]

I feel like the only hope for our sex life is for me to develop amnesia about our past and renew the relationship on a new footing, with us as equals and lovers.

 

I agree that for there to be hope it sounds like you two (for your sake, certainly, if not for his) need to have more EQUAL footing in this deal.

 

However, it is not sounding to me like that is terribly likely, given your representation of what your H is saying/doing/thinking.

 

I agree with A4A.

[Storyrider]

I agree that for there to be hope it sounds like you two (for your sake, certainly, if not for his) need to have more EQUAL footing in this deal.

 

However, it is not sounding to me like that is terribly likely, given your representation of what your H is saying/doing/thinking.

 

I agree with A4A.

 

There are certain beliefs that he is completely invested in, and no, he will never back down on them. I don't think he will ever back down on his ideas regarding sex before marriage. Or birth control (we are stuck using condoms forever, I think) But he would have sex every day if I would. I am the one with the lack of interest.

 

He does continue to be the "knowing" one in our relationship. He isn't a know-it-all, it is just he has very firm beliefs while mine are more fluid. (As I've said, he is ten years old than me and he is a dedicated Catholic.) Also, he is more organized, responsible, prompt, cleanly, and disciplined. This is just a dynamic in our relationship that I think will always be present, although obviously I have control over my own behavior. Lately I have actually gotten worse (more disorganized, irresponsible, late, sloppy, and lazy.) This makes him more bossy, which in turn makes me more rebellious, etc.

 

Clearly, I'm depressed. On top of the sex issue, I'm so incredibly bored with being a SAHM. I think much of my edginess that burning mentioned is coming from that.

[Starry-eyed]

One part of the conversation last night that I forgot to report was this:

 

Me: I wanted to have sex with you early on.

 

H: You didn't even know me. You wouldn't have really been having sex with me but with a figment of your imagination.

 

I remember him saying this to me in the first six weeks of our relationship. I remember us messing around, and he actually said to me, "Why are you so hot and heavy? You can't possibly know me well enough to feel this aroused towards me. You are manufacturing this. It isn't real." And that was when I realized he was analyzing my sexual motives and finding them lacking, and that was when I started to shut down sexually.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, SR, but I think that what your husband said was mean, hurtful, and misinformed. You felt lust and desire for your then-boyfriend - as is completely NORMAL - and he tried to make it ABnormal. That is just terrible. Has he never felt physical lust for someone? Has he never been so attracted to someone after six weeks that he just want to combine with that person?

 

What he told you was not true, that it wasn't real or you were manufacturing that (in my opinion anyway).

 

I really feel for you. I can relate to so much of what you've said about your marriage and my sympathy goes out to you in this difficult time. I am ending my (sexless, unsatisfying) marriage and am excited about the future and having a full relationship with a man. I wish you could have that same experience, either with your hub or not.

 

It seems like your husband doesn't want to relinquish the teacher/master role, the role where he molds you to what he wants. Shouldn't marriage be a two-way street where people listen to each other? It sounds like he doesn't listen to you, just turns all of your comments back on you to make them your fault.

[Mustang Sally]

Well, I'm all for treating depression, if that is a factor here.

 

But I'll offer you this.

 

I tried to talk to my H about the problems in our M for at least a year before I dropped the "I want to separate" bomb on him a week ago. He kept telling me it was my problem, and I was depressed, etc. I probably was depressed, to a degree, but a reactive (to the crappy situation) depression, rather than a true chemical-imbalance depression (you know what I mean...). He held firm in his beliefs and never was at a loss to explain away our issues as really MY issues. Sure I had issues, but I wasn't supossed to be in this M alone, now was I?

 

So I'm sorry if I'm projecting a bit of my recent/past experience on your situation, Storyrider. But I hate to see someone who seems as reasonable and insightful as you (and as I believe I, too, am) stuck in relationship ambivalence because your SO is making you believe that that is where you should be, and they are not really there with you. They have put you there, in a corner, so to speak, on your own, to figure out your transgressions.

 

I don't know. I think I'm too screwed up with my own situation to really have much useful to say to anyone right now! Will go back to lurk-mode.

 

Good luck! I'll keep good thoughts coming your way.

[hotgurl]

There are certain beliefs that he is completely invested in, and no, he will never back down on them. I don't think he will ever back down on his ideas regarding sex before marriage. Or birth control (we are stuck using condoms forever, I think) But he would have sex every day if I would. I am the one with the lack of interest.

 

He does continue to be the "knowing" one in our relationship. He isn't a know-it-all, it is just he has very firm beliefs while mine are more fluid. (As I've said, he is ten years old than me and he is a dedicated Catholic.) Also, he is more organized, responsible, prompt, cleanly, and disciplined. This is just a dynamic in our relationship that I think will always be present, although obviously I have control over my own behavior. Lately I have actually gotten worse (more disorganized, irresponsible, late, sloppy, and lazy.) This makes him more bossy, which in turn makes me more rebellious, etc.

 

Clearly, I'm depressed. On top of the sex issue, I'm so incredibly bored with being a SAHM. I think much of my edginess that burning mentioned is coming from that.

 

It sounds like you two have more of a father daughter relationship than an wqual partnership. He is the teacher, the responsible ine etc... you are the one who needs to learn etc...

 

That could effect your libdo.

 

And just a question your don't have to answer why doesn't he like BC pills?