He says our sex probs are 90% me

[Storyrider]

Tonight I brought up with my husband our problems concerning sex. I told him about the poster here who said she hated having sex with her husband.

 

He said he could imagine my posting something similar ten years ago, although with different wording (I don't use the word hate very often. But throughout our marriage, my interest in sex has been lower than his.)

 

He then said he would advise the poster that if she didn't want to have sex with her husband, she doesn't really love him. Or not as a wife should.

 

I asked him if he thought I didn't love him, and he said I could/would never give my whole self to him, and that I shied away from intimacy.

 

He went on to say that he didn't think I would have behaved any differently no matter whom I married, and that our sex issues are 90% about a choice I have made to withhold myself emotionally in, as he put it, "an act of will."

 

He says this is why counseling won't do me any good because I have no desire to change.

 

It wasn't an argument. We were calm. No one got upset. I just feel I have no sense of perspective on what he is saying to me because I have always trusted his judgement on almost every matter. So when he analyzes me, I find myself trusting his analysis over my own self evaluation.

 

I asked him if it was possible our problems are about how we relate to each other as a couple, and not just about me?

 

He said no.

[Touche]

I'm not sure what to say, SR. I guess I'd start by asking YOU to answer the question you asked him.

 

I asked him if it was possible our problems are about how we relate to each other as a couple, and not just about me?

 

What do YOU say to that? The key really is here and you know that.

[climbergirl]

He went on to say that he didn't think I would have behaved any differently no matter whom I married, and that our sex issues are 90% about a choice I have made to withhold myself emotionally in, as he put it, "an act of will."

 

quote]

 

 

Along the lines of what Touche asked, what do you think of what he said above? Do you think you would be that way with everyone?

[Storyrider]

I'm not sure what to say, SR. I guess I'd start by asking YOU to answer the question you asked him.

 

I asked him if it was possible our problems are about how we relate to each other as a couple, and not just about me?

 

What do YOU say to that? The key really is here and you know that.

 

I think I did have sexual hangups when I met him, and I think I do have trouble opening up and being intimate, but I think that is not the whole story and he is trying to make it the whole story.

 

The way he and I related from day one, both in and out of the bedroom, has not been the way lovers should relate, and that is a big part of the problem.

 

We lived together, sleeping in the same bed, for about a year before we got married, refraining from intercourse because he did not believe in sex before marriage. Don't you think that could twist a relationship?

 

By the time our honeymoon came around I was kind of blase about the whole sex thing. He was already like a roommate to me.

[Mark B]

She's not attracted to him physically. It's quite simple really. People tend to overanalyze things.

[norajane]

Did you ever feel passion for him, maybe back when you first started living together? That irresistible urge to touch him and play? Have you ever felt that kind of passion for anyone?

[Storyrider]

She's not attracted to him physically. It's quite simple really. People tend to overanalyze things.

 

Yes, this is part of it too, but I don't want to keep saying it to him. It can only hurt him.

[Mark B]

Yes, this is part of it too, but I don't want to keep saying it to him. It can only hurt him.

you've said that to him? ouch

[Storyrider]

Did you ever feel passion for him, maybe back when you first started living together?

 

He and I both agree that I felt passion for him in the first four to six weeks of our relationship and it dwindled from there.

 

Have you ever felt that kind of passion for anyone?

 

Yes! Although I have to admit that my libido when we met was lower than it is now. I am actually a much more sexual person now than I was in my twenties.

 

I had a pretty active sex life with the man I dated before my husband. But we often smoked pot before sex, so my husband thinks that was my technique for having sex without emotional intimacy (masking it with the pot.)

[Storyrider]

you've said that to him? ouch

 

Never in those words, no. But things have been implied. I'm not proud of that.

[norajane]

He and I both agree that I felt passion for him in the first four to six weeks of our relationship and it dwindled from there.

 

 

Yes! Although I have to admit that my libido when we met was lower than it is now. I am actually a much more sexual person now than I was in my twenties.

 

I had a pretty active sex life with the man I dated before my husband. But we often smoked pot before sex, so my husband thinks that was my technique for having sex without emotional intimacy (masking it with the pot.)

 

Hmm, my experience with pot and sex is that it enhances the sensual stimulation and the emotional intimacy...with the right guy...a guy you feel passion for and have an emotional intimacy with to begin with. What do you think?

 

Do you think you aren't able to have emotional intimacy during sex with a man, or is it just your husband?

 

Is your libido such that you want to masturbate and do?

 

I'm sorta starting to think Mark B might be right...you just aren't attracted to your H.

[Storyrider]

Hmm, my experience with pot and sex is that it enhances the sensual stimulation and the emotional intimacy...with the right guy...a guy you feel passion for and have an emotional intimacy with to begin with. What do you think?

 

I think it made the sex really, really fun.

 

I don't know that I would want to do it again that way, but at the time it was great.

 

Do you think you aren't able to have emotional intimacy during sex with a man, or is it just your husband?

 

This is the million dollar question. I know without a doubt I have problems with sex and my husband. I have the feeling if I started out fresh today with someone new, I wouldn't make the same mistakes I did with him.

 

And it wouldn't hurt if I wanted the guy's body. I really wish I lusted after my husband's body. But I just don't. I feel more attracted to him when his clothes are on.

 

Is your libido such that you want to masturbate and do?

 

Yes, I masturbate.

 

I'm sorta starting to think Mark B might be right...you just aren't attracted to your H.

 

But I don't want to divorce my husband. I have two young children. And he would be devastated. He has been the perfect husband and father in almost every way. The man is an angel.

[Touche]

I think I did have sexual hangups when I met him, and I think I do have trouble opening up and being intimate, but I think that is not the whole story and he is trying to make it the whole story.

 

The way he and I related from day one, both in and out of the bedroom, has not been the way lovers should relate, and that is a big part of the problem.

 

We lived together, sleeping in the same bed, for about a year before we got married, refraining from intercourse because he did not believe in sex before marriage. Don't you think that could twist a relationship?

 

By the time our honeymoon came around I was kind of blase about the whole sex thing. He was already like a roommate to me.

 

The part I bolded struck me. Speaking for myself, and others, the way it normally works is that you want that person all the more...not less.

 

So to answer your question, no. I don't think the fact that he withheld sex twisted the relationship. Something had to already be wrong in my opinion.

 

You both need to really stop finding/looking for blame now. Talk about what you can do to get it straight. Re-commit yourselves.

 

I know this sounds hokey but get Dr. Phil's book. Can't remember the name but it's for helping to fix marriages.

 

We ran into some problems at the seven year mark. (How long are you married?) We both read the book and followed the exercises. And it worked. We got each other back on track.

 

You have nothing to lose. Why not try that if he's also willing?

[Storyrider]

I know this sounds hokey but get Dr. Phil's book. Can't remember the name but it's for helping to fix marriages.

 

Haha. Not so hokey--I own the book. Maybe I will dust it off.

 

About the witholding sex, have you ever withheld it for that long? It does build up tension at first but then after a while it dwindles off. And the living together without it is the part that seemed twisted to me. If you live with a man and sleep with him but he isn't your lover then what is he?

 

I understand what you're saying though, in that it probably doesn't matter so much the reasons why or who started what.

 

I don't really like Dr. Phil's show (it has gotten kind of trashy) but I like that his approach is cognative/behavioral, and his books are good. And I did mention to H. tonight about counseling, and even though he pooh-poohed it, I would like to go (by myself) as soon as we can afford it.

[Touche]

No, I have to admit I have never been with a man where sex what withheld for that long a period of time. I just know others who have. They tell me that they wanted their man more. But maybe that doesn't happen in all cases.

 

Did you want him once you were married? (Forgive me if you've already addressed this.)

 

I agree with you about Dr. Phil's show having gotten trashy. I don't even watch anymore but yes, the book is gooed.

 

He may poo poo therapy but what about reading and working through the exercises in the book. That's what we both did. He can at leas do that. It can't hurt. And might just help you both like it did us.

[Storyrider]

Did you want him once you were married?

 

The most passionate time in our relationship, including our marriage, was in the first four to six weeks, when we first started dating. It has been pretty blah ever since.

 

what about reading and working through the exercises in the book. That's what we both did. He can at leas do that. It can't hurt. And might just help you both like it did us.

 

Yeah, I will look into that. We actually did a few of those exercises about four years ago and then stopped. Maybe I can start over with them.

 

Thanks Touche.

[Galaxy]

I do think withholding sex made your relationship into a real mess.

Getting to associate eachother as roommates rather than lovers makes a good future FRIENDSHIP.. but loveR? I dont know.

But who knows, if you guys both made love.. maybe it would have ended soonafter from there when the lust died down.

But then you could have married someone you really desired as a husband and lover and not just a friend.

But it seems like he is a great guy and great father so you won in many great aspects, but at the end of the day you still might feel unfulfilled! Just the chemistry is kind of gone... maybe you need to make some effort to step it up and see if anything can be seen in that area.

 

The thing is that you both see eachother as friends more than lovers. Only way to change this is to change how you communicate with eachother. He's not your girlfriend... he's a man and get some passion back into the relationship! He needs to add some excitement and change the way he speaks to you like a friend as well. Too much talking and friendly boring conversations and not enough OOOMPH!

 

Do you both take care of yourselves to look and feel attractive?

[marriedwithtwo]

post deleted.

[princessa]

So what have you tried so far to fix this situation?? If you do feel sexual urges and do fantasize (enough to get off on your own), does your husband never cross your mind when you do that?? And does it end up being a turn off then?? Are you not attracted to him solely because you aren't lusting after his body, or does he say or do some things during sex that turn you off??

 

Also, outside of the bedroom, are you both affectionate towards eachother?? I think that just being generally touchy with him might make you feel more at ease in opening up sexually..

[quankanne]

The thing is that you both see eachother as friends more than lovers. Only way to change this is to change how you communicate with eachother. He's not your girlfriend... he's a man and get some passion back into the relationship! He needs to add some excitement and change the way he speaks to you like a friend as well. Too much talking and friendly boring conversations and not enough OOOMPH!

 

yep, that's my thought, too … because as much as you obviously care about each other as spouse and co-parent, the whole "each other's lover" role seems to have gotten lost along the way. No pointing fingers, it's just that sometimes a relationship evolves into more of a partnership when reality (work, home responsibilities, kids) sets in. And it takes the effort of both parties to go back to being lovers, not just comments on how you've changed and he's unhappy about it.

 

do you think he'd be willing to work at making necessary changes to bring that element back into your relationship?

[whichwayisup]

If you want to feel intimiate with him, that closeness, then definately go to counselling. Deal with what it is that holds you back from being open and intimate in bed.

 

Together you two can re-create that passion and desire!

 

Staying married, more or less as roommates will only lessen that passion that should be there.

 

And, I have to say, it's unfair of him to say 90% of it is you.

[Reckless]

I would like to comment on what whichway said because the first thing that struck me is the 90% thing.

 

Thing is, he IS 50 per cent of the equation, so even if you where (and I'm not saying you are, but even if you where..) a 100 basket case in the bedroom that would still only be 50 per cent of the problem - do you see what I mean?

 

The reason I'm pointing this out is that working on refinding (or finding) some degree of passion and intimacy cannot be done with one saying 'well you're a screw up' and the other replying 'well I don't fancy you'. This peceived 'imbalance' is probably one of the root causes of the problem. To be frank it doesn't sound like you like each other that much.. (you can 'love' someone and even admire them without particularly LIKING them...)

 

As with raising the children, paying the bills running a household, team work is not optional in the bedroom and that is easier if you start from a genuine friendship. His lack lustre approach to working on things, (born probably from a "things will never change and anyway its her fault and not mine" attitude) can hardly help on the friendship front and certainly won't help things progress in bed...

 

Anyway, it seems that you BOTH have to get rid of a degree of resentment for past 'wrongs' and start as someone commented from scratch. In the end, the only thing that IS 90% is the 90 per cent of sex that starts in your head. When what is outside the bedroom is addressed, when the baggage is unloaded or at least put down, then you can BOTH start dealing with trying to find some sizzle.

[norajane]

The most passionate time in our relationship, including our marriage, was in the first four to six weeks, when we first started dating. It has been pretty blah ever since.

 

It seems odd that both of you would want to get married if that passion wasn't present in your relationship for more than 6 weeks at the start. That tells me it's not 90% you; both of you sort-of agreed sex, lust, passion wasn't a priority in your relationship and were ok with it...

 

Are you (and were you ever) affectionate with each other...cuddling on the couch, holding hands, kissing as you pass by each other in the house, patting his butt when he bends over to pick up the laundry basket...?

 

What about the romantic side of things before or after the kids came along...special dinners out, maybe a weekend away together, did he tell you that you're beautiful or sexy, did you ever joke about sex and try different things in the bedroom? Have you tried toys? Does he give your orgasms - is he selfish in the bedroom? And how about beer goggles - have you tried putting those on?

 

Do you think that affectionate and romantic behavior is something you can start doing with him, or is it a repulsive idea? And what about him is so unattractive to you? Is it just his body-type/face, or is he unsexy personality-wise to you?

 

I agree therapy could help you, at least to understand yourself and what's going on with you. MC could probably help, but I'd recommend individual therapy first.

[Mr. Lucky]

He says our sex probs are 90% me

 

I think he's right, the problems are 90% you...and 90% him (okay, that might be more than 100%). I'm struck by how "set in stone" your perceptions of each other seem to be, going back almost to day one. In his eyes, you are emotionally aloof and unavailable, and you see him as unattractive and sexually boring. Seems like those responses go hand-in-hand - why would you want to open up and give yourself intimately to someone you are neither attracted to nor interested in?

 

I agree that the non-sexual start to your relationship was a handicap. Most marriages, the sex evolves from pure physical attraction to mutually developed behaviors of pleasing and relating intimately to your spouse. You guys seem to have missed that learning curve, as one bond couples acquire in their marriage is that they love each other because the sex is good - not the other way around. Certainly, therapy or counseling could help both of you see some things differently...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Storyrider]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I can't respond to everything said right now, as I'm supposed to be working, but I will try to hit the highlights.

 

So what have you tried so far to fix this situation?? If you do feel sexual urges and do fantasize (enough to get off on your own),

 

Yes.

 

does your husband never cross your mind when you do that??

 

Almost never. I would say that my feelings for him are almost completely devoid of the sexual.

 

Are you not attracted to him solely because you aren't lusting after his body, or does he say or do some things during sex that turn you off??

 

Both, but I find that I have a very loud "critical voice" if you will, that makes nasty comments when we have sex. I don't mean literally (I'm not a schizophrenic) but I'm talking about a negative tape loop.

 

Also, outside of the bedroom, are you both affectionate towards eachother?? I think that just being generally touchy with him might make you feel more at ease in opening up sexually..

 

We hug, touch and cuddle but hardly ever kiss on the lips.

 

If you want to feel intimiate with him, that closeness, then definately go to counselling ..And, I have to say, it's unfair of him to say 90% of it is you.

 

He says it will not work because I have no desire to change.

 

To be frank it doesn't sound like you like each other that much.. (you can 'love' someone and even admire them without particularly LIKING them...)

 

As with raising the children, paying the bills running a household, team work is not optional in the bedroom and that is easier if you start from a genuine friendship. His lack lustre approach to working on things, (born probably from a "things will never change and anyway its her fault and not mine" attitude) can hardly help on the friendship front and certainly won't help things progress in bed...

 

Anyway, it seems that you BOTH have to get rid of a degree of resentment for past 'wrongs' and start as someone commented from scratch. In the end, the only thing that IS 90% is the 90 per cent of sex that starts in your head. When what is outside the bedroom is addressed, when the baggage is unloaded or at least put down, then you can BOTH start dealing with trying to find some sizzle.

 

We do like each other. And love each other. But there is resentment built up and some of it has been there from the beginning.

 

He has a nickname for me, loving but with a bite to it (and I won't say what b/c it is embarrassing.) But the meaning behind it is that I try to get away with doing less than my share, whether it is household chores or sex.

 

It seems odd that both of you would want to get married if that passion wasn't present in your relationship for more than 6 weeks at the start.

 

I also find it odd. In some ways I don't think he should have married me. He should have thrown me off.

 

It could be relevant that he had not dated in apprx. ten years when we met. He had been alone a long time and was tired of it. We had a lot in common and connected mentally and emotionally.

 

That tells me it's not 90% you; both of you sort-of agreed sex, lust, passion wasn't a priority in your relationship and were ok with it...

 

Agreed. I don't know why he thought it was worth it. I think he hoped it would get better with marriage, intercourse.

 

Are you (and were you ever) affectionate with each other...cuddling on the couch, holding hands, kissing as you pass by each other in the house, patting his butt when he bends over to pick up the laundry basket...?

 

Yes.

 

What about the romantic side of things before or after the kids came along...special dinners out, maybe a weekend away together,

 

This is hard b/c we don't have any money or family nearby. We live on a very tight budget, and he is very thrifty. But we could do more. We do neglect this side of things.

 

did he tell you that you're beautiful or sexy, did you ever joke about sex and try different things in the bedroom? Have you tried toys? Does he give your orgasms - is he selfish in the bedroom? And how about beer goggles - have you tried putting those on?

 

He's not selfish at all in the bedroom, but not suave either. He will do anything I ask. Toys might be interesting to try, we haven't really gone there.

 

Is it just his body-type/face, or is he unsexy personality-wise to you?

 

His personality is rather sincere and serious. He isn't a drip or anything. People tend to enjoy his company, find him interesting. He is very smart which is attractive to me. And he is a good listener.

 

He has a handsome face, I think. Good bone structure. We sometimes have little tiffs about him not remembering to get a haircut, trim his eyebrows, etc. (He can grow some killer eyebrows after about a month of no trimming) That sounds awful on my part I know. It has been a minor but consistent bone of contention between us since day one. Even as I read this I want to delete it b/c I think it makes me look really bad that I care about something so stupid.

 

His body type is very slender and slight. He's 5'8 and about 140 pounds. He used to be a marathon runner. But he is ten years older then me, getting close to fifty, and doesn't have time to run much now.

 

I agree therapy could help you, at least to understand yourself and what's going on with you. MC could probably help, but I'd recommend individual therapy first.

 

I agree that the non-sexual start to your relationship was a handicap. Most marriages, the sex evolves from pure physical attraction to mutually developed behaviors of pleasing and relating intimately to your spouse. You guys seem to have missed that learning curve, as one bond couples acquire in their marriage is that they love each other because the sex is good - not the other way around.

 

I absolutely agree with this. I wish a more sexual, playful tone had been set during our early courtship and had been maintained. I almost feel like when we try now, we are going through the motions. Kind of like when a blind person gains sight and they just don't have the neurological framework in the brain to make sense of it.