How would you feel in a sexless marriage?

[tommyr]

For weeks, I've been educating myself here on LS and talking with some close friends. The current thread, especially the ladies here, has really helped this XY neanderthal get a better clue about female views on sex in a marriage: thanks all!!

 

So last night I had a serious discussion with my wife about our disappointing (to me) sex life. This was not our first discussion like it- she has her oh no.. ANOTHER bitchfest about Sex expression perfected. Prior talks have led to some progress in this area, but still there has been recent conflict and setback. This time, I did my best to explain several things (in summary):

That sex is an essential way for me to feel her love and adoration.

That she is indeed The World's Greatest Mom, but her total devotion to our kids has squeezed me right out of her attention.

That aside from being downright fun/pleasurable, to me sex is the highest form of communication.

That without regular sex, our marriage feels simply incomplete.. maybe even unsustainable.

That I was struggling to keep up in other areas of our relationship due to frustration in the bedroom.

 

Lots of back and forth ensued. I think she may have had a mini AHaaa! moment like some of the gals here. She clearly did GET the fact sex is IMPORTANT to me in a way far far beyond how she herself views it. And that I was not just some hormone crazed sex junkie making frivolous demands upon her (depleted) affection. In a shocking display of maturity for both of us, we actually talked it out and NEGOTIATED an arrangement that suits us both. Ok I wont leave you hanging.. we will shoot for sex twice per week and I will step up the non-sexual connections with her (talking, emotional, affectionate, flirtatous).

 

This morning (at her initiation) we filled part of this weeks quota.

[Ladyjane14]

Good work, Tommy!!! :bunny:

 

Next convo... try to incorporate the "gender filters" we've been talking about on the last page or two. Pink's post #330 gives a good overview. Your wife needs to understand that your BRAIN works differently than hers. Male and female is MORE than just 'outties' and 'innies'.

 

Try reading The Five Love Languages together for other ideas on identifying and fulfilling ENs outside the bedroom. And if you type into your browser... "Big Boys Don't Cry, Reader's Digest, you'll find an article that will help your wife understand the differences in male and female brain function. Print it off for her.

 

Meanwhile, don't get discouraged if it takes some time to get to the "aha" moment. Look at it this way... you both have a lifetime of social hypnosis to overcome.

[Ladyjane14]

I have one last thought for y'all on "social hypnosis" as it applies to women, then I'm out.

 

Say, you're a man with a sixteen year-old daughter, who's "in love" for the very first time. What do you tell her about boys?

Do you tell her that men tend to recognize love best through sexual expression, or do you tell her that boys are mostly out to get into her pants?

 

Grown men in committed long-term relationships are a much different animal than that callow youth trying to lose his virginity and gain experience. The fact is, those callow boys teach us women a few things in our girlhood... and not NICE things either. Those lessons are hard to UN-learn.

[Topper]

Lets say you have been married for many years your happy and living comfortably. You love your family and spouse yet you have lost any and all sex drive for whatever reason Maybe Illness or something else. You Know that your SO isa very sexual person he or she needs a lot of sex. You Know this make he or she very happy yet for you it is all but unbearable. therapy and other things just don't seem to help you at all. Would you allow your SO to take a lover? Would you possible even help your SO to find a lover?

I have thought about this and I think it might be the most loving thing you could do. It could mean you stay married and in a loving realationship and your SO is sexually satisfied. It would be much better then sneaking off to have an affair or going to a prostitute. Could you live this way?

[Topper]

My bad, I meant the above to be a new thread sorry

[Flyin in Clouds]

Just remember Tommy, that the problem is more fluid than static. Female libidos are up and down over the course of a woman's life. There are some psychological reasons why a woman might commit herself to sexual avoidance, things like a past history of rape or molestation for example. But otherwise, even if you traded her in for another model, you're likely to end up facing the same problem again later on down the pike.

Look the regardless of the reason a woman is withholding sex the problem remains - no sex. Bad boys just say to hell with her and move on. Nice guys try to show they love her and "understand". In the end it really doesn't matter why if it can't be fixed. A guy is left with the four basic choices. Suffer, divorce, cheat, jump off a bridge. Which is least harmful?

[Flyin in Clouds]

...

That comment was just in reference to the issue of "initiation". It just doesn't make any sense to me, why a guy would keep internalizing this issue to the point where he won't even ask for what he wants. ...

Initiation can mean she appears to be receptive to an advance. She's willing to act like she's a sexual being. Too often a woman gives every clear signals she just isn't interested in sex.

 

For instance, when a man says to his wife, I love your long blond hair, and she goes out and gets it cut short what is she say? She's saying, whether she means to or not, "honey I don't care what you like about me because you're liking me doesn't matter any more. I've got you trapped and well... you'll just have to deal with it. I really don't love you or care what you like or want".

 

What if I say, "honey, you've got lovely cleavage" but all she wears is turtle neck sweaters? What does that tell a man?

 

If a woman acts like she isn't interested in sex and I get shot down repeatedly, then after a while I just give up. There are easier fish in the sea baby.

[EnigmasMuse]

Could you live this way?

 

NO, I could not live that way. I would have to communicate to my spouse that our problems obviously goes beyond the lack of sex, and that we either enter into some marriage counseling to try to fix whats going on, or we split. People have to do whatever works for them I'm sure, but for me, that would not be what worked nor the answer.

[Very_Confused]

It does seem that there are a lot more men with this problem than women... or maybe it's just that women are more reluctant to talk about it? I'm not sure. Being a woman who is not getting any from her husband, it hurts to sit around and listen to my girlfriends talk about how their husbands are all over them and can't get enough and wish they could get some peace, and it makes me feel like there is something wrong with me that my husband isn't all over me as well.

 

I mean, deep down, I know it's not me, but when you are rejected time and time again you start to think that maybe it is. My self confidence has gone down the tubes. I try to tell myself that our relationship isn't all about sex, but it taints everything else somehow. I dont' feel as close to him, and somehow all our other problems seem to be magnified. Maybe that's because I'm bitter about it. I want to be desired.

 

My question is, when do you draw the line and say enough is enough? I have ALWAYS had a high sex drive, and I can't live like this, with my self worth in the toilet. We have had sex 3 times in the past 6 years. I initiated it each time, not to mention the countless times where I tried to and he would turn me down. I've asked him to see a doctor, which he did and found out he has low testosterone, but he won't do anything about it! Refuses to take the meds to fix the problem. I have tried to get us into counceling... he refuses to follow up with it. It's like it's not important to him, and it hurts.

 

So now I'm the glorified roommate. I do chores around the house. I take care of the kids. I work. Beyond that... there is nothing. He says I love you, and I get split second kisses on the lips. No other intimacy at all. It's like living with a hole inside me... something is missing and I don't know how much longer I can exist without that before it consumes me and I just die inside. Sometimes I think I'm halfway there... sometimes I don't even care

 

I missed alot of discussion over the weekend. Shattered Reality, it seems like our situations are very similar. I feel like I have "checked out" of my marriage at times too. And that maybe I am not trying as hard as I use to for fear of the same old rejection. My husband's refusal to go to a marriage counselor or to use the meds that his doctor prescribed doesn't help my desire to continue trying to fix the problems between us either.

 

Last week I asked him to go to a marriage counselor in the morning, he said no and then when he got home from work it's like the conversation never happened. He never once asked me WHY I felt it necessary to go. I tried to start a conversation about it but he got angry and turned his back to me. He just brushed it aside like he does every conversation I try to have with him about it. I just steered clear of him the rest of the night and went to bed early. And the next evening he wanted to know if I'd play an online game with him and acted miffed because I told him I really didn't want to. Maybe it was petty of me but the way I felt was if he didn't care enough to talk about something that was important to me then I wasn't interested in doing something that he wanted. I hate feeling that way, it's so childish. But I can't help it sometimes. Too much resentment built up I guess.

 

The thing is though, that he is in denial that there is a problem. Sure, he can admit it to me... when we have had discussions about it he will even say things like "yeah, I know that I need to work on that" or something like that (not to imply that the fault is all with him, at least not in all our problems.) But sometimes I feel that way though Like I've tried so hard to make things work but he is not putting any effort forth. I know I'm not perfect... there are issues that he has with me that I need to work on as well. But the point is that he won't DO anything about it. I can be as open and honest about how I'm feeling and what this is doing to our relationship, but I can't fix this alone. I can't MAKE him do anything that he doesn't want to do, and frankly I don't think I should have to. I'm willing to put a certain amount of work into this, and I have... but how much is enough?

 

I can definitely relate. When my husband wanted to reconcile last year he acknowledged the problem and promised that we would work on it together. I guess, for him, the problem magically went away once he had moved back in because he refuses to even discuss it now. I should have made marriage counseling a requirement for reconciliation but you know what they say about hindsight.

 

While we were still separated, I told my husband that I didn't want to get back together. I didn't see things changing between us because he wasn't willing to work on the problems between us. He'd rather brush them under the carpet and pretend they don't exist. He won me over in the end, promising that things would be better and once he was back in the house he shut me out again. I should have remembered something I said to him during our separation:

 

"you are lonely and you miss the little parts of your life that you had gotten use to. I'm a habit. I'm the person you have talked to and confided in for the last 9 years of your life. I am the person you have shared the everyday things with, good and bad. Being with me is better than being alone. Well I won't settle for that, not anymore."

[Pink_Tulip]

For weeks, I've been educating myself here on LS and talking with some close friends. The current thread, especially the ladies here, has really helped this XY neanderthal get a better clue about female views on sex in a marriage: thanks all!!

 

So last night I had a serious discussion with my wife about our disappointing (to me) sex life. This was not our first discussion like it- she has her oh no.. ANOTHER bitchfest about Sex expression perfected. Prior talks have led to some progress in this area, but still there has been recent conflict and setback. This time, I did my best to explain several things (in summary):

That sex is an essential way for me to feel her love and adoration.

That she is indeed The World's Greatest Mom, but her total devotion to our kids has squeezed me right out of her attention.

That aside from being downright fun/pleasurable, to me sex is the highest form of communication.

That without regular sex, our marriage feels simply incomplete.. maybe even unsustainable.

That I was struggling to keep up in other areas of our relationship due to frustration in the bedroom.

 

Lots of back and forth ensued. I think she may have had a mini AHaaa! moment like some of the gals here. She clearly did GET the fact sex is IMPORTANT to me in a way far far beyond how she herself views it. And that I was not just some hormone crazed sex junkie making frivolous demands upon her (depleted) affection. In a shocking display of maturity for both of us, we actually talked it out and NEGOTIATED an arrangement that suits us both. Ok I wont leave you hanging.. we will shoot for sex twice per week and I will step up the non-sexual connections with her (talking, emotional, affectionate, flirtatous).

 

This morning (at her initiation) we filled part of this weeks quota.

 

This is fabulous news! Please keep us updated, I will be crossing my fingers for you!!

[ponderingfar]

RecordProducer...that is exactly how I feel!!! I have a room mate who came with big baggages, who deprives me not only of sex, but also of sleep because of his loud snoring. Imagine that! living an intimacy-less life and being sleep deprived at the same time. That is how I regard him, a co-parent/room mate. I do not even consider him a friend since I couldn't talk to him too...life!!!

[Moose]

Truly take into consideration regarding my wife's neglect in this area was brought up to me in a PM.

 

The person knows who she is, and I haven't been able to respond to her because of some technical bugs.......sorry.....

 

The point is that Mrs. Moose is probably harboring some resentment towards me still.

 

And that makes perfect sense. I wasn't always the model husband I make myself out to be on this forum, and I'll never claim to be perfect, however, I'm nowhere NEAR the way I used to be.....

 

There have been spurts where sex is abundant, then it's stale, up and down, and all around. But it seems to have hit a brick wall lately, and I'm starting to think that she's comfortable again with how her life is, but is going back to the past, dwelling perhaps, and the way things used to be.

 

Is that possible? Could this be the root of her problem? What do you all think?

[Touche]

No, I don't think that's it. I've been with my H for over 12 years now and our sex life has been up and down like that over the years. It waxes and wanes but is never completely dead. I think that's normal in any long-term relationship..or most anyway.

 

I don't have any advice though. Every person has a different way of going about "keeping it alive." My way is too controversial and many don't approve. But I do what I need to do to keep the fires burning while staying true to my morals and values.

[Moose]

My way is too controversial and many don't approve.

Can you, or have you explained this somewhere?

[EnigmasMuse]

Is that possible? Could this be the root of her problem? What do you all think?

 

Since I'm fairly new here, and I do not know alot about your situation, but will say that it sure can be a possibilty. Resentment can be an awful thing, especially if its harbored for along time or not delt with properly. I do think SOME people can use that as an excuse though, like a crutch because they can become comfortable in NOT doing what they know they might need to do or not do.

 

I also think that resentment can be delt with in a way to where its better or more tolerant for a person to live with. However, I'm not so sure resentment ever really goes away. Kind of like a alcoholic who learned to deal with or got help for their drinking. They may no longer drink, but its reprecussions from the past are still there.

 

It may not be ALL of the problem, but it could be part of it.

[Touche]

Can you, or have you explained this somewhere?

 

I don't talk about it anymore. It's why I first came here. It's complicated. I'm trying to find other ways to light a fire under me. It's pointless to discuss it here because it will serve no purpose as far as your particular issue.

 

I bet I'm kind of like your wife though. I go through periods where I have no desire. I get bored of it. I must say that I'm in that "mode" now. I feel guilty about it. My H has initiated so many times lately and I've rejected him. I don't know what to do. The last time we made love, about a week or so ago, it was very routine. I felt bored with it and then I felt guilty.

 

I don't know what to do. I'm kind of in the same boat as you are but on the other side of the coin.

 

I think, H is happy to just "get off" and I seem to want more excitement than just getting off lately.

 

I'm as confused as you are, like I said. I'm not sure what to do about it.

[Moose]

I think, H is happy to just "get off" and I seem to want more excitement than just getting off lately.

Right now, I would be happy to just, "get off", too, but I do desire the excitement you're seeking as well.

 

The problem is that the frequency is so far in between that it doesn't take much more than, "routine sex", to satify me, where as, if it were more frequent, I could, "hang on", a LOT longer to give her that excitement.

 

BUT, I don't think that my wife is even interested in more excitement, or even routine sex.......this weekend will mark 2 months....

[EnigmasMuse]

Right now, I would be happy to just, "get off", too, but I do desire the excitement you're seeking as well.

 

The problem is that the frequency is so far in between that it doesn't take much more than, "routine sex", to satify me, where as, if it were more frequent, I could, "hang on", a LOT longer to give her that excitement.

 

BUT, I don't think that my wife is even interested in more excitement, or even routine sex.......this weekend will mark 2 months....

 

 

What does she say when you have asked her WHY the infruequent sex?

[Touche]

Right now, I would be happy to just, "get off", too, but I do desire the excitement you're seeking as well.

 

The problem is that the frequency is so far in between that it doesn't take much more than, "routine sex", to satify me, where as, if it were more frequent, I could, "hang on", a LOT longer to give her that excitement.

 

BUT, I don't think that my wife is even interested in more excitement, or even routine sex.......this weekend will mark 2 months....

 

I haven't read back to see the background here but have you discussed this with her? My husband brought it up to me five years ago when we were having a "dry spell." He told me how much it hurt him and how rejected he felt. It woke me up and ever since then, I never let more than a week or so go by. But I still feel guilt because he wants it more often than that.

 

Are you affectionate with her outside of the bedroom? That goes a long way with me.

 

Also, you may be caught in a vicious cycle here. When you finally have sex, it's too routine because it's been so long. This may make her not be so eager to do it the next time.

 

Maybe if you masturbated in between it would help with that?

 

I'm just throwing out some things that may help. Also, compliments on her sex appeal may help.

 

Would a dirty movie be out of the question? That can work sometimes.

[Touche]

Wanted to add a few other things. Other than the things I've mentioned above, there's nothing really more you can do. This has to come from her now. She has to get herself in a certain frame of mind. You really do need to impress upon her how important this is to you though.

 

HOW, she gets herself into that frame of mind is up to her, but she has to do it. It's not fair to you to have no sexual contact for that long. Tell her that. Tell her you don't want to live with a roomate. (That one hit home with me five years ago when my H said it to me.)

 

I had to get myself into another frame of mind. Let's just say I use fantasy a lot. It's not that I'm not turned on by my H because I still am. I don't want to have any kind of sexual physical contact with any other man, but I have to use fantasy.

 

She's going to have to come up with her own way to light that fire again. This is HER issue now as I see it. And it's MY issue now too and I'm dealing with it.

[Moose]

What does she say when you have asked her WHY the infruequent sex?

She'll say things like, "I've just been tired lately", or "I've had a rough day with the kids", or "I've been cleaning all day"......truth is, none of these make any sense to me. She takes naps daily, the kids are all old enough to take care of themselves, and we have a cleaning service that helps her out.....

I haven't read back to see the background here but have you discussed this with her?

Yes, MILLIONS of times. And it comes up when we councel other couples. When confronted, or talked to, she'll bump the activity up a notch only to revert back to the same ole routine within a month's time.

Are you affectionate with her outside of the bedroom?

As much as I can be. We never part without a kiss, I constantly compliment her, and at the end of the day when I come home, we greet with a long hug and kiss. But that's the extent of it.

 

I truly think that part of it is that her parents never showed affection. She thought my side of the family had some kind of inbred problem cause even my brother and I hug if we haven't seen each other in a while. She thought that was the STRANGEST thing out there......PDA, or even plain A isn't her forte'. I've always said that in this aspect, I married the wrong person....

Also, you may be caught in a vicious cycle here. When you finally have sex, it's too routine because it's been so long. This may make her not be so eager to do it the next time.

I totally agree.....now.....what do I do about it?

Maybe if you masturbated in between it would help with that?

I don't know why, but I feel too proud to stoop that low. I've never had to pay for sex, nor do I feel the need to take matters into my own hands so to speak. I know I need to be satified in that way, but I'd rather my mate enjoy as well.

Would a dirty movie be out of the question?

Absolutely.

Other than the things I've mentioned above, there's nothing really more you can do. This has to come from her now.

With V-Day coming up, and this banquet we're going to tonight, I think I'll wait. But I know deep down it's just going to be the same ole routine! She'll finally have sex with me, (not make love), a few times then it'll slack off just like it always does......what do I do then??

[whichwayisup]

She'll say things like, "I've just been tired lately", or "I've had a rough day with the kids", or "I've been cleaning all day"......truth is, none of these make any sense to me. She takes naps daily, the kids are all old enough to take care of themselves, and we have a cleaning service that helps her out.....

 

Those are excuses, once in a while saying that is OK, but not all the time. Seems she just doesn't "like" sex anymore and it has nothing to do with you, even though I know (like most of us) DO take it personally.

 

With V-Day coming up, and this banquet we're going to tonight, I think I'll wait. But I know deep down it's just going to be the same ole routine! She'll finally have sex with me, (not make love), a few times then it'll slack off just like it always does......what do I do then??

 

Mercy sex isn't that fun. Sure, it gets one off, but knowing the OP isn't enjoying it just sucks, and knowing they're "just" doing it to please you, brings on a bunch more issues and feelings.

 

What do you do then? Get after her. Tell her HOW important it is to you, how it makes you feel when she rejects you that way.

[Ladyjane14]

When confronted, or talked to, she'll bump the activity up a notch only to revert back to the same ole routine within a month's time.As much as I can be. We never part without a kiss, I constantly compliment her, and at the end of the day when I come home, we greet with a long hug and kiss. But that's the extent of it.

 

You know, actually.. the more sexual interactions a woman has, the more she usually wants. The act itself can bump up her hormone level a little bit, particularly if the job is getting DONE (if you know what I mean ). So, I suppose it's not unusual at all to have these spates where things are cooking along pretty regular, but then something will happen that creates down-time, like maybe her menstrual cycle... and you're out of the "habit" again.

 

When you fall off the horse though, you got to get back in the saddle as soon as you can there, Cowboy.

Maybe THAT's the time to pull out a few stops in order to get the romance going again.

 

As far as the non-sexual physical affection is concerned... maybe you might try loosening her up a little more verbal affection as a precurser to it. This works particularly well if it's humerous.

 

My husband was yammering away about some old nagging thing not too long ago. I had totally tuned him out and he busted me on it, saying "you have NO IDEA what I just said, do you?"

But I answered him deadpan... "Nope... you know I can't pay attention when you have your clothes on." :p

He blushed like a GIRL!!! And instead of getting in trouble... I got lucky later on!

 

Meanwhile, whenever she offers YOU physical affection, make sure you're giving her the right payoff. If you try to go straight to homeplate every time she pats your hiney, she's not going to pat it UNLESS she's ready to go straight to homeplate.

 

As far as "routine sex" goes... maybe try some books. I'm not talking about porn, mind you. But there are some more legitimate "How To" titles out there that might at least get you two talking about things you'd like to try together. That way you can break the ice, and be silly about some of the things you might see that are just plain goofy too. Trick is... to have a tool for starting some discussion.

[Moose]

I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

 

We have the Valentine banquet tonight, and I usually, "put the moves", on her after such an event.

 

Yes, she's shot me down before even after the romantic evening of a candle lit dinner.

 

But tonight.....I don't think I'll even try. Here's the weird part. After I've got involved with this thread, and realized that this is her choice to be this way, I feel like even if SHE initiates tonight, I wouldn't be able to perform.

 

I know, that sounds cruel of me, but now that I know more about what women are coming from thanks to you guys, I'd just feel like an instrument at that point.

 

Does that make sense?

[ThumbingMyWay]

I feel like even if SHE initiates tonight, I wouldn't be able to perform.

 

I know, that sounds cruel of me, but now that I know more about what women are coming from thanks to you guys, I'd just feel like an instrument at that point.

 

Does that make sense?

 

yes I know what you mean.

 

There are times that I get rejected and rejected, etc...i give up trying.

 

Then during the dry spell, my wife WILL finialy initiate. And I almost feel like...OH NOW its ok....kinda like I HAVE to perfrom when you want me...but when I want too...and you dont I have to understand

 

In my head, I kinda think....I am not going to...i will reject her. I think maybe its resentment that makes me pridefull. I know I am just being stubborn when i reject her....and I am sure she looks at it like, well i am ready...lets go...and then I think, AHA...not so fast...this is how it feels.

 

 

but then she puts the voodoo on me...and I cant resist...and I get to release the last 3 weeks of backup....and its actually HOT sex...

 

BUT deep inside, I still feel resentment.

 

does that make sence