Some Q's for the women on here about confidence.

[lindya]

Yeah, I mean of course I look at women in a lustful way. I just think the SA stops me from showing it.

 

When I'm around women I don't really feel any lust, just sorta like a deer caught in a cars headlights.

 

Hmmm. I'm imagining being in a pub and choosing whether to chat to the relaxed, smiling guy or the deer caught in headlights. I can see your problem there. So you totally freeze up in the presence of women.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post that you were in love with a woman you had an online relationship with. Are you beginning to see why something like that just isn't real? The idea that we're all beautiful souls drifting round cyberspace and melding with one another is very pretty - but there's no escaping the fact that we're flesh and blood human beings who are very much driven by our senses.

 

You might find that while you feel perfectly comfortable sitting in your jammies and reading a person's carefully composed thoughts from your pc screen, actually being in their physical presence could make your nerves jangle unpleasantly. Love is not just spiritual - you've got to also feel physically comfortable around a person, and you absolutely can't gauge that from reading messages off a computer screen. Far too many people fool themselves on that score.

 

Can you think of any times you've felt both physically comfortable around, and attracted to, a woman you met in real life? If so, what were the particular circumstances?

[alphamale]

When I'm around women I don't really feel any lust,

is it possible you're a homosexual?

[Ross_K]

Can you think of any times you've felt both physically comfortable around, and attracted to, a woman you met in real life? If so, what were the particular circumstances?

 

I'm not sure. I'll give it some more thought and get back to you on it later.

[Ross_K]

is it possible you're a homosexual?

 

Can you read? If you can then you'll know that it's hard for me to feel lust in the presence of a woman because of social anxiety.

 

Sure, I can look at her and be aware that I'd like to have sex with her, but that's about it.

[alphamale]

Can you read?

Yes, i can read the lines and in between the lines also.

 

Sure, I can look at her and be aware that I'd like to have sex with her.

Ok, thats good...

[quietintrovertgirl]

Lindya,

Come on girl!! Most hookers talk only when the money start flowing.

[magichands]

I don't look at women as sex objects.

My mistake. Sorry.

[pricillia]

Can you read? If you can then you'll know that it's hard for me to feel lust in the presence of a woman because of social anxiety.

 

Sure, I can look at her and be aware that I'd like to have sex with her, but that's about it.

 

 

Sometimes you just have to dive right in. Have any women shown an interest in you?

[Green]

Just hit on women and tell us about how your getting turned down left and right already then we'll feel sorry for you. look if you get turned down by 1000 girls then I'll know you need help. You could probably hit on atleast 10 girls a week. if you hit a few bars you could hit on over 1000 in a month or two I'm not telling you to be smooth or even suceed just go out there and try already and let us know thats what confidence is, its not knowing you can do something and doing it, its when your scared and you might fail but you try any ways.

[magichands]

Magichands,

I known Ross for over 2 years and thats why i maded the statement.Magichand if we're going to talk talk lets talk.I'm not going say half truths.

I've got a better idea...get your dukes up, sweetheart!

It makes no sense to me for Ross to waste money on an escort just to learn how to F**k and talk to a woman.How about putting all that energy into a relationship that will lead to intercourse.

I actually agree with you. Scary. But we're just trying to break the "problem" down. I think the question is - what is getting in the way of Ross and infatuate going on a date? (Okay, I made that bit up about his infatuate. Let's just call her a girl.)

 

Now, we should take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, but I'm a big fan of the "flooding" your fears paradigm. If Ross is the proverbial "deer in the headlights" in the presence of a (or more) love creature, then he should get busy and step into that spotlight. And the curtain never has to fall on this show.

I know what love is, I was in love with a girl that I was in an online relationship with.

You might find that while you feel perfectly comfortable sitting in your jammies and reading a person's carefully composed thoughts from your pc screen, actually being in their physical presence could make your nerves jangle unpleasantly. Love is not just spiritual - you've got to also feel physically comfortable around a person, and you absolutely can't gauge that from reading messages off a computer screen. Far too many people fool themselves on that score.

Me included.

 

And, now claiming to be temporarily extricated from fooldom, I want to throw my elephantine weight behind Lindya's insight (a very safe bet).

 

You hear it often mentioned - it's not what you say, but how you say it. Possibly an exaggeration, but body language is a significant component of everyday communication - and communication is the lifeblood of a relationship (okay, that and sex).

 

And whether you call it being physically comfortable around someone, or romantic chemistry, or whatever - it's something that can only be borne out through face-to-face jousting.

 

An online "relationship" with someone might stink figuratively, but they might stink literally. Extreme example, but there are any number of "mannerisms" that could substitute for this undesirable quality (for most). Turn the coin for things that might endear.

 

My last relationship metamorphosed into a long-distance thing, and I became increasingly frustrated that I couldn't dispense simple acts of kindness - like a hug, or just to sit and listen and relate. Sometimes an expression really is worth a thousand words.

 

I ended up making the decision to move, because - in my mind - something had to give. It didn't save the relationship, but I made the best decision I could at the time. Anyway, this is beside the point - I mention it to emphasise the importance of just hanging with someone.

You get something out of it (experience) and you avoid inflicting the trauma of a fumbled, clueless grope on some unsuspecting girl you met in a club. Not to mention the trauma on yourself if she reacts badly to your inexperience. You get laid, and the prostitute gets paid for helping you out with a matter you've been spending God knows how much time stressing over.

I think Lindya is right on the money (in this thread, and as usual), so let me first apologise for this out-of-context quote.

 

Right now you're tight as a drum, Ross. Any love creature is going to bounce right off you. You're going to have to loosen up if you want to feel some good vibrations.

 

And you have made a good start in seeking professional help.

 

My suggestion is that you try to do whatever you can to get more comfortable around the female ilk. (Sorry for restating the bleeding obvious.) I really think your obsession with "losing your virginity" is putting the cart before the horse. There may be no substitute for experience, but just try to RELAX. And then relax even MORE. Summon the most selfless feelings within you. Be as natural and as caring as you can (and that doesn't mean being a wimp!).

 

I have just re-read my last paragraph, ugh! In my defence, I'm just a pink elephant. You have to use your imagination.

 

Anyway - maybe that's worth a try until your first appointment? (With the therapist, I mean.)

[quietintrovertgirl]

Magichands,

Ross reminds me of a big teddy bear.He's sooo loveable but he drive me crazy.Ross is scared to try thing

[magichands]

Magichands,

Ross reminds me of a big teddy bear.He's sooo loveable but he drive me crazy.Ross is scared to try thing

I'm worried about you. Can you not concentrate for long enough to finish your sentences?

[quietintrovertgirl]

Magichands,

I'm worried about you too because your post that was address to me was very ignorant.This topic is about Ross,women and sex .It's not about you not comprehending my post so if you can't handle what i have to say.Next(kiss).

Can we stay on topic or are still bother by my comment to you"if we're going to talk let's talk talk "about women,men and sex.

[magichands]

Pass. (This pass is not directed at anyone in particular.)

[burning 4 revenge]

I think it would be interesting to hear more from B4R and any other guys who have gone to prostitutes in the past, to find out whether it helped them to relate more comfortably (sexually and non sexually) with women in their day to day lives.

 

Sexually speaking I found out that sex wasn't as great as I had imagined it to be through high school. My first encounter was at 17, just before turning 18 and I found sex to be less exciting than I had anticipated.

 

Maybe it's just me though. Vaginal sex has never been all it was cracked up to be. My first oral experience, also with a prostitute, was much more mind-blowing. What i wouldn't do to be 18 again.

 

As far as my day to day life, you know what Lindya, if I had it all to do over again, I wish I hadn't done so many of the seedy things I've done. I wish I hadn't grown up in an atmosphere as corrupt and dehumanizing as SFLA can be. My father almost never took that job down here and i can only imagine if we had stayed in central Illinois, boring central Illinois, I would have turned out far less cynical, but who knows.....

 

And I know I can't blame it all on the place.

[Guest]

I know I'm not in line with everyone else here but all I have to say is keep being yourself Ross. I don't have a problem with insecurity in a man, in fact I find it quite a nice change to be treated like more then a piece of ass now and again. Quite a nice change to reassure a man instead of needing to be reassured because it shows me that he wants me around, not that I am replaceable.

 

The only thing I don't find attractive about you is the fact that you are willing to contribute to the degredation of women by paying for expirience from them. I know I'll get tons of people who will shoot me down on that comment, but the point is if no one paid these women for their services then women wouldn't be for sale anymore. Maybe we'd get a little more respect once we have more to offer then an escort can, right now we're stuck making sure we can please our men in so many ways (from painful anal to threesomes) they expect us to just for the "privledge" of them not having an affair.

[lindya]

The only thing I don't find attractive about you is the fact that you are willing to contribute to the degredation of women by paying for expirience from them. I know I'll get tons of people who will shoot me down on that comment, but the point is if no one paid these women for their services then women wouldn't be for sale anymore.

 

I don't see why anyone would shoot you down for that. It's a perfectly fair way to feel. On the other hand, to establish whether a prostitute is being degraded by the way she earns her cash, do you go by whether she personally feels degraded by the situation - or do you rely on the fact that you find it degrading and therefore see her as being devalued as a result?

 

My own view tends to be that if a situation makes a person feel worthless, but they continue in it when they have the choice and opportunity to escape, then yes that's degradation. Sometimes, though, people will be fine about a situation they're in...and the only confusion stems from society's disapproval.

 

I don't like porn. Am I qualified to tell the men and women who participate in porn, and those who watch it regularly, that it degrades them? I don't think so. I only know that I personally have felt degraded by the occasional film I've seen. Whether or not others in society think I should or shouldn't feel that way is irrelevant to me - if I don't like it, then I'm not going to watch it. Doesn't mean that I don't realise it serves a valid purpose in many people's lives.

 

In a similar way, I don't see how anyone other than Ross or the escort can really decide whether a sex for money arrangement degrades either or both of them. If they did feel degraded by it, then it would certainly be one of life's bleaker transactions. I just can't see that anyone other than Ross and the escort can really decide how they feel about being involved in a situation like that.

[Ross_K]

Actually, I remembered last night that there has been a few rare occasions where I've felt lust towards a real life woman. When it happens it's when I'm not actually interacting with them, so obviously I'm not feeling that anxious. And there usually has to be something about them or just having big boobs and showing a lot of cleavage.

 

Sometimes you just have to dive right in. Have any women shown an interest in you?

 

Never.

 

This is why I believe it isn't possible for a woman offline to be interested in me. It's as though I'm not really biologically a human, it's like I'm just an alien in human form or something.

[Ross_K]

Just hit on women and tell us about how your getting turned down left and right already then we'll feel sorry for you. look if you get turned down by 1000 girls then I'll know you need help. You could probably hit on atleast 10 girls a week. if you hit a few bars you could hit on over 1000 in a month or two I'm not telling you to be smooth or even suceed just go out there and try already and let us know thats what confidence is, its not knowing you can do something and doing it, its when your scared and you might fail but you try any ways.

 

No woman has ever shown interest in me and I'm 30, I think that's enough proof that I need help.

 

And I can't just start going around hitting on every girl I see. I've got social anxiety remember, I don't even go out that much.

[lindya]

Actually, I remembered last night that there has been a few rare occasions where I've felt lust towards a real life woman. When it happens it's when I'm not actually interacting with them, so obviously I'm not feeling that anxious. And there usually has to be something about them or just having big boobs and showing a lot of cleavage.

 

This is why I believe it isn't possible for a woman offline to be interested in me. It's as though I'm not really biologically a human, it's like I'm just an alien in human form or something.

 

Thinking of yourself as being some kind of alien is a bit harsh, but it does sound as though you shy away from intimacy with others even though a huge part of you craves it. In that sense, I guess, a business transaction with an escort offers you a false intimacy experience that you can leave without feeling that you're letting another human being down. Or maybe more importantly, one that will end because the allotted time is up, rather than because you as a person were rejected.

 

However much some guys laugh and pump themselves up about the idea of objectifying women (eg as prostitutes, one night stands or whatever) these are often the fears that lie underneath the egotistical "I'm such a bastard to women" mask. In that respect, you're perhaps not so different to those who would try to raise themselves above you by dispensing "pick up" advice and strategies.

[Ross_K]

I know I'm not in line with everyone else here but all I have to say is keep being yourself Ross. I don't have a problem with insecurity in a man, in fact I find it quite a nice change to be treated like more then a piece of ass now and again. Quite a nice change to reassure a man instead of needing to be reassured because it shows me that he wants me around, not that I am replaceable.

 

The only thing I don't find attractive about you is the fact that you are willing to contribute to the degredation of women by paying for expirience from them. I know I'll get tons of people who will shoot me down on that comment, but the point is if no one paid these women for their services then women wouldn't be for sale anymore. Maybe we'd get a little more respect once we have more to offer then an escort can, right now we're stuck making sure we can please our men in so many ways (from painful anal to threesomes) they expect us to just for the "privledge" of them not having an affair.

 

I really don't see why escorts degrade women. If anyone is being degraded it's themselves, and even then it's down to opinion, like lindya says. I think only if someone feels like they're being degraded, then they're being degraded.

 

But even then, if that is how an escort feels, there's still no reason for me to feel guilty because she obviously thinks it's worth it for all the money she's making, she can easily quit and get a different job if she wants too.

 

She's a perfectly capable adult who can think for herself.

[Green]

Ross no more excuses just go try something. Go up to a girl and say "HI" wait for an answer depending on what happens then say "Whats GOin On?" listen wait for it then say "Give Me your number". Look ross no matter how much anxiety you have I know you can go up to a girl and atleast do that if you do its a victory in its own no matter what happens. I dont care if she says how dare you talk to me your the ugliest man on earth and then starts throwing rocks at you, ud be the man if you faced your fear and just went up and started a flirty conversation with a girl and tried to get her number. It doesnt matter if you freeze up and are uncool just go do this with atleast 10 girls and I promise you, you will see things diferently. You Will never EVER get a girl if you dont start talking to them. Oh and always be posotive dont say anything negative about yourself or anything else when first meeting some one. Look I just got this really hot girl at works number because I had the balls to ask her for it, if I hadnt made a deal at talking to her and then asking her for her number I would just be a chump like you. Look all you have to do is talk to the next girl you find at all atractive whether it be passing in the street, stopped next to you at a red light, in line, or shoping at the same store your in. I say go out and go shopping just so you'll run into good looking girls, hit on the cashier, the waitress, but more importantly the other customers and people at the resteraunt. Look this post is abot confidence, well all you have to do is make a move forget about confidence its a word used to describe people who make things happen now go out there and make something happened no excuses and then make that your next post about how u tried something for once in your life...

[Ross_K]

Thanks for the advice KMT, but there's no point in me putting the cart before the horse.

[Green]

cart before the horse? Just talk to a girl and flirt, and try to get her number... what was the point of this thread you were just going to ask if women like confidence and if people said no you go hmmmmm... and if people said yes youd go ok... makes sense what ever. Look just go talk

[Ross_K]

cart before the horse? Just talk to a girl and flirt, and try to get her number... what was the point of this thread you were just going to ask if women like confidence and if people said no you go hmmmmm... and if people said yes youd go ok... makes sense what ever. Look just go talk

 

Yes, cart before the horse. There's many things I need to sort out first before going up to women I don't even know and trying to chat them up and flirt with them.

 

Did you know it's even hard for me to leave the house sometimes? And can even feel extremley uncomfortable with going up to an attractive cashire to buy something.

 

The point in asking this thread is so I can get the information I need and then try and work on my general confidence so there's more of a chance I'll attract a woman when I'm ready to even talk to one comfortably.