Men in Long-Term Relationships Who Don't Want to Marry

[Guest]

To the OP and others. Wow I could have written your frustrations myself. I have been with my boyfriend for five years (next month). At first he was the one pushing marriage and always talking about it. He bought a house only five months after we started dating (he'd previously lived with his parents) and I moved in with him exactly a year since we began dating. He was engaged to his last gf after a year a half so I expected we would get engaged soon. He first talked about getting engaged three months after we moved into togehter. Then he never brought it up again for antoher year. He actually went out and bought a ring (which I eventually made him take back) because I felt he only bought it because I was "bugging" him about getting married/engaged. From day one he has stated he wanted to be engaged for about a year then get married. When we first started dating he said he'd like to get married in two years. Well today here I am five years later and while he has a ring and has shown it to me, no proposal. He talks about it every few months and other than him asking me to marry him on new years day when I was crying because I found out my best friend just got engaged to a guy she had been dating for 3 months! He never brings it up. HE says he wants to get married but won't move forward. In the early years he was always saying he wasnt' ready or that his ex fiance really hurt him or some other excuse. I too am almost 30 and would like to be married so that I can have children. (all of my other family members near my age, have all have children out of wedlock and I don't want to go that route) I feel that I have wasted my time with this "great" guy who I love and who in all other respectes treats me very well. I too fear that he is holding out for something better and I am so afraid that if I leave him he will meet someoen and marry her right away and I will feel like even more of a failure than i already do.

 

im going through a similar situation right now. Ive been with my bf going on 4 years. at fiirst he was the one always talking about our future together and having children. Now after living with him, he doesnt talk about these topics anymore when confronted about what his intentions with me are, he tells me that he needs to finish school first and that im not as mature. SHould i bail out now and find someone new before its too late?

[BruceT]

christopher, I don't know what you have been smoking!

 

I'm in my 40s and don't lack for male attention at all. I am hit on every day by men in their 20s and 30s. Don't think that would be happening if us older gals had reached your defined hagdom.

 

While I totally agree with Christopher about marriage and feminism I have to say without doubt women simply get sexier as they get older I truly believe women don't hit their peak sexiness till they are atleast 35+.

 

Good for you!

[MJTig]

As in any conversation about marraige, you will usually find the women PRO and the men CON. This isn't really surprising. Most rapists are pro rape, and most bank robbers are pro robbery.....

 

Seriously; contrary to what many men think- women aren't stupid. They lack honor, morality, integrity, compassion (for men), decency, etc., etc. ad nauseum. But, they are NOT stupid.

 

 

wow. someone got ripped to pieces and put up wet by a woman.

 

Has it every occurred to you that maybe you are seeking out the wrong women, you moron? If these are the women you are encountering no wonder you don't want to get married! Not to say that you would run to altar (or should feel like you had to) if you found a decent woman, but lord. You should know that any good points you make about hesitation about marriage are completely discredited by your obvious vehement hate for women.

[Woggle]

I don't think that men are afraid of commitment at all. Men are not afraid of marriage but they are afraid of divorce and when you look at the divorce and the walkaway wife thing it scares single men. Men wonder why they should do it when it will only end in divorce plus he will paying ana rm and a leg to her after the divorce. Better to stay single and keep your money and assets because eventually she will leave you alone anyway. Marriage has become a game of russian roulette for men.

[Trialbyfire]

Since I'm on a marriage strike, consider me commitment phobic right now. Why should women get married? You can have your cake and eat it too, just like any man. Don't breed and you should be fine...

[Teddy and Jane]

I don't think that men are afraid of commitment at all. Men are not afraid of marriage but they are afraid of divorce and when you look at the divorce and the walkaway wife thing it scares single men. Men wonder why they should do it when it will only end in divorce plus he will paying ana rm and a leg to her after the divorce. Better to stay single and keep your money and assets because eventually she will leave you alone anyway. Marriage has become a game of russian roulette for men.

 

That is ignorant and egocentric. Just because you've been burnt, it doesn't mean that it is women who are causing all these problems in marriages, give me a break.

[Woggle]

That is ignorant and egocentric. Just because you've been burnt, it doesn't mean that it is women who are causing all these problems in marriages, give me a break.

 

I never said they do but men are making a huge gamble when they walk down the aisle. A man never knows if one day he will come home and his wife wants a divorce. A woman can turn on a man at the drop of a dime and that is a scary prospect for men who know the truth about modern day gender relations.

[Teddy and Jane]

Ladies;

 

It pains me to see your distress, as I know that most of you want to get married. It's a normal desire. There is nothing wrong with it. But, fewer and fewer of you will be able to find a man because men, in spite of their BLATANT STUPIDITY, are beginning to slowly wake up. We ALL know a lot of guys who have had their tails handed to them in the divorce court. Almost every man I know has been thoroughly arse-raped in the divorce courts here in my state, and I know men from all walks of life and socio-economic levels. The story is usually the same.

 

This is the end result of your "liberation". Don't get me wrong; if a woman wants to be liberated and a feminist, that IS her right. I don't subscribe to the "kitchen and the bedroom" theory. However, don't expect a man to want to MARRY you. It's like marrying a guy. Men are attracted to the feminine. We want to protect a woman. Provide for her. Spend our life with her. Buy her perfume and flowers. That, too, is normal. We don't want to marry an aggressive, domineering, "empowered" woman. Talk about a turn-off!

 

We have simply found out that it JUST ISN'T WORTH THE EFFORT!

 

The cost of pursuing a woman is emotionally draining, and women are insanely cruel in the dating/mating game. Then comes marraige, when they get really nasty. Then meopause. Ah, the lunacy of menapause. Somewhere along the way divorce fits into the picture, and then the situation becomes hopeless. For the man, I mean.

 

I am not trying to offend, but please ask yourselves precisely WHAT you are bringing to the table in marraige. BE HONEST! Is it your sunny disposition? Your mood swings? Your out-of-control spending habits? Your radical weight gain after the wedding? Your frigidity and sexual hang-ups? Your manipulative mother who seeks to sabatoge the marraige? Your STD's? Your threats of divorce? Your lack of loyalty? Your back-stabbing of your husband? Your adulterous affair with another man or woman?

 

Your cellulite?

 

What?

 

Read "The Rules", a book by a pair of female authors. This book turned me off to women more than almost anything I have read from the male perspective. It offered insight into just how cold and manipulative women are. The book shook me up badly. But that's YOU, ladies. In the book, I mean. The authors were merely being honest about how women view marraige- and men. You have no respect for us at all.

 

Did you really think ALL men would just sit there blindly forever and allow themselves to be walked over? Admittedly, a lot do- and will. But things they be a changin'. The internet is awash with websites warning me to avoid marraige and women. I have numerous books in my library, many written by attorneys, advising men to NEVER get married.

 

My friend, Don, was taking care of some matters relating to his will last year. Like me, he has never married and has a lovely all-paid-for home. His attorney, an older and very wise man gave him one last bit of advice before the visit was over. He told Don to NEVER marry or co-habitate with a woman. EVER. He said that the legal ramifications were too severe for a man, and that no man should ever allow a woman to even spend the night in his home. The dangers of false domestic violence charges and rape charges are almost impossible to beat, and the man is entirely at the mercy of the woman in such cases. This from an attorney.

 

Understand that things will NOT be getting better. Most of us don't hate you. It would be a violation of everything I stand for to hate someone. Most men, like myself, simply have no respect for you, often times bordering on the contempt. Most men are finding out that we can live life quite nicely without YOU. Most of us would rather have had it otherwise, but YOU have made it impossible. You have become the over-priced luxury items that few men want- or can afford. Simply put, you just aren't worth the effort. Again, I'm not saying this to be rude or hurt your feelings, but to make you think.

 

WHY should a man even want to bother with you?

 

Last year, a female friend of mine (a good woman, by the way) was trying to set me up on a date with a friend of hers. This friend of hers is forty, teaches at the university level, and at the time was a senior editor for a large newspaper. Good looking, and in great shape. I never met her in person, but saw her on the news when a fellow member of her staff won a rather prestigious journalism award.

 

Dang. Talk about well preserved.

 

I digress. We spoke on the phone a number of times, and we exchanged a number of e-mails. She wanted to go out with me, and apparently had never read "The Rules". She was a lady, but I was definately being pursued. She was intensely fascinated with my lack of romantic experience, and I rather imagine she wanted to be my "first". lol

 

The day of the date, actually an hour before she left her office for the day, I sent her an e-mail saying that, regretably, I didn't want to go out with her. Just like that. Now, part of me, even now, cringes when I think about it. I just don't treat people that way. Ever. But I did. Why? Was I trying to be cruel? No. I just didn't have any respect for her. I have lost all respect for women. I have related this situation to a lot of male friends, and tried to get their perspective. I have received a lot of varying responses, but not one man thought I did anything wrong. The general view was that women are harsh in their treatment of men, so what's good for the goose, and all of that. The general attitude was "screw her".

 

It saddens me to think that things have gotten this bad, but they will get worse. Men used to RESPECT women, or should I say that we used to respect LADIES. Remember that word? L-A-D-I-E-S. Some of you may remeber HEARING the word, but very few understand the meaning. I won't bother trying to elaborate. As my mother used to say, "You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear."

 

Again, nothing I have said is meant to offend. If my comments causes just one of you to re-examine your participation in the never-ending attack on all things male, then maybe it was worth it.

 

Christopher

 

I don't know where you get off thinking that it's only women who are overweight in America. (I'm a 39 year old woman, STD-free,anti-depressant-free,I work out and eat healthily to maintain a great figure - it's actually difficult to find single GUYS these days who aren't sporting big bellies and are chubby to the max)...anyway, even trim, fit women and supermodels have cellulite, I don't think it's fair to criticize over that, this is a low blow and simply stupid because lots of men are overweight. It really has nothing to do with it, love is love, and many overweight women and men find it.

I could go on, but there's no sense. Let me sum it all up...dude...you need to get LAID. PLEASE do us ALL a favor so you can take all this pent-up energy and sexual frustration you have to a real live WOMAN instead of typing away on a Saturday night whining about the state of women these days. Use a condom!

[norajane]

Let me sum it all up...dude...you need to get LAID. PLEASE do us ALL a favor so you can take all this pent-up energy and sexual frustration you have to a real live WOMAN instead of typing away on a Saturday night whining about the state of women these days. Use a condom!

 

Good lord, don't encourage him to inflict himself on some unsuspecting woman!

 

[Teddy and Jane]

I never said they do but men are making a huge gamble when they walk down the aisle. A man never knows if one day he will come home and his wife wants a divorce. A woman can turn on a man at the drop of a dime and that is a scary prospect for men who know the truth about modern day gender relations.

 

This is not some phenomonen of men, there are tons of women who have had men turn like dimes on them and wanted out. Men like you are egocentric in the fact that because men have been dumped, women are evil and manipulative. That is SO ridiculous. You think there aren't men out there who haven't treated women like total crap and wanted divorces?

[Woggle]

This is not some phenomonen of men, there are tons of women who have had men turn like dimes on them and wanted out. Men like you are egocentric in the fact that because men have been dumped, women are evil and manipulative. That is SO ridiculous. You think there aren't men out there who haven't treated women like total crap and wanted divorces?

 

If course there are but a woman that treats a man like crap is called a liberated feminists while a man who simply wants a woman to be faithful is called a control freak that wants to oppress women.

[Teddy and Jane]

If course there are but a woman that treats a man like crap is called a liberated feminists while a man who simply wants a woman to be faithful is called a control freak that wants to oppress women.

 

Who is calling them this? This is simply not true and again egocentric. Men or women who cheat or fail on commitment are generally not highly regarded in society.

[Woggle]

Who is calling them this? This is simply not true and again egocentric. Men or women who cheat or fail on commitment are generally not highly regarded in society.

 

Check out that women's infidelity board that Gunny keeps posting.

[Teddy and Jane]

Check out that women's infidelity board that Gunny keeps posting.

 

ummm, if you see this board as any view of reality, then you have problems.

[Teddy and Jane]

I can understand why someone would be so bitter against women in general when 1. they live in Eastern Oregon, otherwise known as the desolate desert of Oregon. Not many women out there to choose from. I have a friend who teaches in a college in that area. Luckily he found a feminine woman to marry, but it wasn't easy. The fact that a big night out for you is hanging with the dykes across the street and their bassett hounds....I'm sorry, I really feel for you.

 

2. They have never had sex. I mean....they need to make a movie about you, the 45-Year-Old-Mad-Embittered Virgin Who Believes that Women all have STDs and Guys Don't, and All Women have Cellulite and are Fat and they are all Evil so He'd Rather Stay Home and Masturbate than Be With One

 

I can understand why you're so bitter.

[Gunny376]

ummm, if you see this board as any view of reality, then you have problems.

 

The reason the Women's Infidelity board is valid is because its comprised of men that have lived the tale.

 

At one time, women in the United States cheated at a rate of about 15 % while men cheated at the rate of about 50 % of the time. In this day and age ~ women's infidelity rate is 40 to 45 % and even higher in some parts of the country such as California.

 

There's a lot of reasons for this. The single one is multiple forms of birth control. Another is of the course the Women's Lib movement which has caused landscape changing legislation to include but not limited to just divorce laws.

 

Family court judges are elected officials, and with women having the right to vote ~ they know which side of their bread is buttered.

 

And, I hate to be the one to break the news to everyone ~ but pre-nups are about useless as a toothless guard dog, because in some parts of the country the Femi-Nazi brainwashed judges have ruled that a woman cannot sign away her "rights"

 

A man cheats on his wife? Its his fault. A woman cheats on her husband ~ its still his fault.

 

There are good men and good women that make damn good husbands and wives. But its like looking for a good job? What good ones there are tend to be taken already and the folks that have them, have had them for a good long while and they not only plan on keeping them, you're going to have to fight them to get them away from them ~ if not kill them.

 

On the happenstance that one comes up on the market ~ usually as a result of death more so than divorce ~ they don't stay on the market.

 

Thus the perception that there's a scarcity of good men and women ~ which there are. What is left usually isn't worth wasting your time with.

 

What is left on the market are the serial cheaters of both sexes, the drunks, the crank heads, the crack heads, the ones with some sort of incurable VD, the ones with OCD, bi-polar, or some other mental or emotional disorder? The drunks, the users, abusers, the perpetual victims etc.

 

That's not to say that there's not good quality people of both genders out there, that also happen to be single. The problem is like most markets, the information about the market is imperfect, and so a good quality (GQ) males have problems finding and hooking up with a GQ female and vice versa.

 

The other part of the problem here is people expectations ~ they expect way to much of themselves and of each other. In this modern age of computers, the internet, cell phones, PDA's and instant gratification ~ people expect way too much, and are disappointed when they're let down.

 

The truth of the matter is that men don't need women ~ and women don't need men to survive the day to day part of living. Both men and women are becoming incompetent in fulfilling their traditional gender roles and tasks.

 

For example? I use to be able to work under the hood of a car, and still can to a certain extent. But the last car I was able to work on was a 69' Pontiac Firebird with a 400 cu inch engine and 4 barrel carburetor. The car I got now? I've got to take it to the shop. I simply cannot afford to buy all the tools and diagnostic equipment necessary to work on a modern car ~ I'd go broke. Not to mention it’s a full time job just keeping up with the specifications on each years model. I can still change out a water pump, an alternator, starter and such.

 

There's one gal here on LS, whose a computer whiz, but when her and her husband were divorcing he offered to stay with her to teach her how to cook. Me? I know how to cook, wash clothes, iron, clean house from top to bottom. And, when I say cook, I'm not saying opening cans and using the microwave. Give me any recipeand I can make it. Even cakes and pies? But there are more and more women that don't have a clue as to how to boil water.

 

I'm not saying I won't ever get married again ~ as far stretch of the imagination that may be? I personally don't see it happening. You see my picture in the Sunday paper with some gal announcing our engagement ~ you can bet she's all that and then some!

 

Shacking up? I won't ever do that again either. For one thing ~ shacking up is like drawing a bath tub of water and then sticking your big toe in and saying you took a bath! No its not ~ you stuck your toe in a tub of water. If your going to get wet ~ get wet! Dive right in!

 

Another problem with shacking up is that it doesn't work out ~ and you moved in with her, sooner or later your going to get the speech ~ "This is my house ~ either my way or the highway!" If she moves in with you, and things go South, you sit around with your head in your hands thinking "How can I get this b**tch out of my house!" Trust me, she'll probably be bi-polar and its going to involve and RO and the police!

 

Another problem I have with marriage is that when you get married your actually are marrying 3 maybe 4 different people all at the same time.

 

The person you think you're marrying!

 

The person you're actually marrying!

 

And the person that's going to come about as a result of having married your sorry azz!

 

The fourth potential one is the one that you meet in divorce court? As in: "I can't believe that's the same woman / man I've been married to all these years!"

 

50% of all first time marriages end in divorce, 62% of second time marriages end in divorce, 72% of all third time marriages end in divorce (Dr. Phil) primarily because people don't look at the three fingers they've got pointing at themselves, concentrating on the one they've got pointing at their spouse. They don't seek to identify their own personal shortcomings, failures, and weaknesses.

 

Of the 50% that don't get divorce (of 1st time marriages) they're staying together because of the status quo, finances, the children etc. Of that 50% ~ 2/3's of them are miserable ~ again because they stagnated as human beings and as individuals, and fail to do the hard work they need to do as individual human beings. Forget fixing the spouse ~ work on yourself.

 

A lot of folks get married thinking its someone else's job to make them happy. Single, married, divorce ~ the person whose job it is to make you happy is you!

 

The first step on a journey of a thousand miles is recognizing that we're all flawed in some way. We're not just Earthly beings having a spiritual experience? We're Spiritual beings having an earthly experience ~ this life is nothing more than a big cosmic classroom for spiritual beings. Its the reason we come to the planet ~ to learn and to grow as spiritual beings.

 

Learning how to love ~ and forgive, most especially your own screwed up ~ flawed azz among others ~ is lesson No.# 1.

[Gunny376]

The gal that I'm looking for?

 

She's got a good job, is self supporting, independent, has her own home, doesn't need a man~ but wants a monogomious, relationship with a man that has the same.

 

She's got a nickle, I got a dime ~ together we'll go in togehter and get a bottle of wine.

 

When she get tied of me being around, I'll go to the house, and she can call me in a week or two.

 

Hell, for the right one? I'll even give her a key to my place so she can come over and snoop for OW's earrings and underwear while I'm at work!

 

"Joe saw Bubba at the shooting range, and said, "Bubba! Since when did you go and have your ears pierced and start wearing earrings?" Bubba told him ~ "Ever since my wife found them in my truck!"

[Teddy and Jane]

I am 38, unmarried, attractive, and in my case I just haven't found the guy who I feel compatible enough to marry. i have been in long, committed relationships with QM, but just because someone is a QM doesn't mean you should marry them. I don't have any STDs. I am a teacher and know three other single, attractive female teachers in their 30s in the same boat. We're great people! I just don't make all these excuses that men are scum, noncommital, etc. like men do.

[Guest]

i am male 37 and wants reall women she loving and happieness every time

[sunshinegirl]

Having only skimmed this thread and some of the more outrageous and stereotyped comments I've seen about women, all I can say is that I feel sorry for the men on here who feel as they do.

 

But to me it reads the same as if I trotted out all the statistics about women who are victims of violence at the hands of men in this country. According to Gavin de Becker, who wrote The Gift of Fear, 75 women are raped every hour, and 12 women are killed by their boyfriends, husbands, fathers, or male guardians every 24 hours. For more stats, google "battered women statistics in the US" or check out http://www.asafeplaceforhelp.org/batteredwomenstatistics.html.

 

Now, how would you men feel if I used those stats to argue that all men are dogs, that they are selfish, brutal, violent, cowardly, lack self-control, and further, that women would do well to avoid relationships with men altogether? (Which would, as a blanket statement, include every man on this thread?)

 

It's an over-the-top statement, no? Much as some of the comments I've read about women are. For instance, please don't use that book "The Rules" to say that now you "know" how women are. It may be how those two women authors are, and it may describe what some of its female readers are like, but that book was a piece of crap, in my opinion. It's not how I am.

 

At the end of the day, if you are so embittered about women writ large, it is better that you do run away from us. Stay out of the dating pool, because you are the type of men who will sabotage a relationship no matter how good it may actually be going because you will read sinister intentions into the woman's actions and thinking even when none exist.

[Woggle]

The thing though is that most women really do feel that all men are like that. It seems that many women can dish it but can't take it. They want to hate men all day but get mad when men say what we feel about women.

[a4a]

The thing though is that most women really do feel that all men are like that. It seems that many women can dish it but can't take it. They want to hate men all day but get mad when men say what we feel about women.

 

Well that makes them equal dumbasses doesn't it?

 

Start taking the high road.

 

She called me a booger first so I called her a frog..... nah nah nah.....

 

stupid. stupid. stupid.

 

 

 

HERE ARE THE FACTS:

Some men suck, some women suck...... end of story..... but those that lump them all in one heap are the biggest suckasses yet. They are missing out on some wonderful things in life, choosing to be bitter and look at the world through a very narrow mind.

[Guest]

Good lord, don't encourage him to inflict himself on some unsuspecting woman!

 

 

My personal theory is that Christopher1 is trying to justify the fact that he's gay. If I could say anything to him I would tell him that being a homosexual is perfectly fine, he just needs to come to terms with it himself and love himself for his differences.

[sunshinegirl]

The thing though is that most women really do feel that all men are like that. It seems that many women can dish it but can't take it. They want to hate men all day but get mad when men say what we feel about women.

 

 

I don't hate men all day. In fact, I am surrounded by very good men, in my family, at my workplace, in my pool of friends, in my boyfriend.

 

What I get annoyed by are blanket stereotypes, of any kind. I bust just about any stereotype you might come up with about me. I don't like it when people assume they know me based on some surface feature(s), because they simply don't. At best, one's generalizations about women/midwesterners/white people/cat lovers/whatever, can give you a starting point to get to know someone, to ask questions, to learn more. But the individual you are dealing with will always deviate from your stereotype in some way. Guaranteed.

 

So if you write your stereotype about someone in permanent marker instead of pencil, you will miss out on getting to know who that person truly is. The guy who posted about calling off a promising date with the woman who had won a journalism award because suddenly he realized she was a woman and he knows what women are like? Sad. Very sad.

 

The rigidity of these stereotypes is what I'm reacting to in this thread.

[melodymatters]

Well, we all know woggle had issues with his mother, I would bet my last Non-cellulited, non -std carrying, non overweight dime, that Chrissy - Poo, had a psychotic b*tch of a mother.

 

NO ONE can have all those negative delusions about ALL woman, without mommy having burnt his pee-pee with cigarettes or the like. I would not be surprised to find out he's a serial killer !