Men in Long-Term Relationships Who Don't Want to Marry

[Christopher 1]

Ladies;

 

Ask yourselves a question or two.

 

1) How are relations between men and women these days?

 

(Hint: They've never been worse.)

 

2) Why are so many women taking anti-depressants?

 

(Hint: 'Cuz they're STILL not happy.)

 

3) Why are so many women seeking help from psychiatrists, psychologists and various counselors?

 

(Hint: See answer to number two.)

 

I honestly don't think women have been more miserable and lonely than they are today. When they are in their twenties and fresh from college with their wymen's studies hatred and entitlement mentalities still fresh in their minds, they join into the corporate fiasco and start their nightmarish climb up the corporate ladder only to find that it's just......work. Lots and lots of work. And stress. And tedium. And backstabbing. With nothing to show but a mortgage, and a BMW that gets older each year.

 

Ah, yes. Buy a newer Beemer. Or maybe a PORSCHE if you get that promotion.

 

Wow.

 

How shallow.

 

This isn't just women. It's society. We live in a greedy, materialistic country that values career and educational success above family. This is cultural suicide.

 

I know many of these women who have placed their hopes on their careers instead of being stay-at-home mothers. I respect their right to do so, but very few of them are happy. Most are lonely. Very lonely. It starts to hit them about thirty, when the biological clock starts ticking loudly. But, at this time in life a woman has lost so much of her sexual power over men. So many women don't want to face up to this eternal truth. If a woman wants to secure a stable marraige future for herself and her children, she has simply lost the ability to attract most decent men by that point. Not always, and not always to the same degree, but generally speaking, this is the case.

 

Just as a woman cruelly judges a man by his earning potential and social status, and not his character, a woman is judged by her looks. Her sexuality. The youthful glow of a beautiful young woman (and all women in their twenties are beautiful and captivating, I don't care what anyone says) soon fades. Women are far more beautiful than men can ever hope to be, but men age better. Yes, indeed. We age better.

 

By age 35 or so, the average career woman has very little chance of attracting a man. You've probably heard the old joke about a woman over forty having a better chance of being attacked by terrorists than getting married. Silly sounding and a little cold, but there is a grain of truth in that statement. Actually, a lot more than a grain. Further complicating the problem for women is that women almost never marry DOWN economically, educationally or socially. You know what I am talking about here. Women marry a man for his financial success, not because they are "in love". I should rephrase that. Women decide they are "in love" once a man qualifies financially.

 

The problem is, that women have been displacing men in the corporate world, and at the rate we're going, considering how fewer and fewer men are bothering to go to college these days, women will have very few mating choices in the future. There are only so many doctors and lawyers to go around, ladies. What are you going to do? Decisions, decisions. Are you going to marry that common working man? Heavens to Betsy, NO! What would mother say? What would your friends say? We just *have* to keep up appearances, don't we? After all, it's just as easy to marry a rich man as a poor man....or is it?

 

No, it's not. Women have placed an exorbitant price on their vaginas, and most men can't afford it. They can't affored the purchase price, nor can they affored the maintenance fees. They certainly can't afford the divorce. Not financially, or emotionally.

 

Hence, we have the marraige strike. Not all men are angry and bitter towards women. Increasingly, they are indifferent. They just don't care anymore. And there is NOTHING more difficult to deal with than indifferance. When a person has simply lost interest- when all interest has DIED, there is nothing to resurrect. At least with anger, the interest is still there. There is some hope.

 

The usual shaming tactics that used to work on men about "settling down" and "be a man and get married" just don't work any more most of the time. Most of us just shrug our shoulders with apathy, and walk away. What's the point? We have been villified and castigated by women for so long, that we see no need to try and attract and impress women. Why bother?

Why try and attract someone that hates you anyway, and is just waiting for the opportunity to financially arse-rape you?

 

Contrary to what you may think, I do know women. Very well. My mother, God rest her soul, spent years educating me about women. This was re-enforced by my father, a very wise old man, who still gives me the benefit of his 87 years of wisdom. As he says quite often, "Leave the women alone. There is no percentage in it. Just misery". Truer words were never spoken.

 

Nothing but misery.

 

Take care, and as usual, my words were not meant to hurt. Only to inform and help.

 

Christopher

[slinkysu]

 

Take care, and as usual, my words were not meant to hurt. Only to inform and help.

 

Christopher

 

But you words do not inform of anything other than you bias and ignorance. You aren't a woman. You have no close relationship with a woman and have no understanding of a close relationsip with a woman. you have no basis of your information othe than your prejudice and you can not speak for women as you are not a woman. I would never sit and dictate to you the state of men as i am not a man.

 

It is sad to see your view of the world as so negative and your view of women as so mis-informed and incorrect.

 

And as for the state of relationships between men and women - from my perspective they have never been better. But then i am surrounded by good people, with good relationships who treat each other with respect and understanding. It's only on these boards that you witness the sad statements of men refusing to get close to people because they are afraid of getting hurt - but life is about experience, both good and bad, and ultimately the good experiences win out.

 

Women in the 50's were at their most miserable - like caged song birds, desperate to break free of moulds that uniformed men put them in. From what i have read it seems that your view of women is warped and i think your world is a less better place because of it - but if you are happy then so be it. You will never understand my point of view because your blinkers are so firmly fixed on - but it's a beautiful world - if only you'd join in and feel it.

[Woggle]

I don't agree about women over 35 not being attractive. I am engaged to a 41 year old that is beautiful on the inside and out. It is not just about looks because I meet many physically attractive women that are hideous on the inside. What is more the issue is that many women by that age have become so bitter and jaded towards men that they put up this wall around them that is damn near impossible to get through. They are so scared that opening up their heart and letting a man in will destriy their independence that they sabtoage any potentiallu positive relationships with a man. Many of these careerist types also give off this harderned vibe that is just a putoff.

 

Slinkysu maybe you live in a different world than me but men and women barely even like each other anymore. In fact in many cases we outright hate each other. Dating and love used to fun and enjoyable but lately it has become like a warzone and many men are just sick of fighting the battle of the sexes. Chris has a point about why try to form a relationship with somebody that hates you. Women since the 70s have been screaming about how horrible men are and now they wonder where all the good men have gone.

[juniper fumes]

This was re-enforced by my father, a very wise old man, who still gives me the benefit of his 87 years of wisdom. As he says quite often, "Leave the women alone. There is no percentage in it. Just misery". help.

 

Your father is a very wise man, indeed. I am grateful to him for recognizing that we women certainly don't deserve to have a bitter misogynist around, and advising you to do us the favor of staying out of our lives.

[justagirliegirl]

christopher, I don't know what you have been smoking!

 

I'm in my 40s and don't lack for male attention at all. I am hit on every day by men in their 20s and 30s. Don't think that would be happening if us older gals had reached your defined hagdom.

[crazy_grl]

Oh Christopher, if you've spent your life studying women (or whatever you said you do) and came to those conclusions, I feel really really bad for you.

 

At first I was a bit upset by the blatant ignorance and the 1920's mentality, but then I thought about how much you're missing out on by clinging to your views of women. It must be aweful to harbor such negativey all the time. I don't even think you even realize how aweful it is, because you don't know what you're missing out on. How horrible for a father to be so bitter he'd teach his son those things.

 

My heart goes out to you, despite what you might think of me as a woman who has no interest in being a stay at home mom.

[Christopher 1]

Oh, ladies.

 

Sigh.

 

As usual, you just won't listen. The usual accusations of being a misogynist are used to cloud the issue. No; I don't hate women. I have little respect and a great deal of pity for most of today's women who have their own hearts full of hatred and venom for men, however.

 

As to the idea that I am somehow miserable because of my supposed hatred of women and the fact that I don't have a woman in my life......nonsense. (You should see my financial portfolio). I am anything but miserable. Unlike most married or divorced men.

 

I used to be a Christian, as I have mentioned before, and always found the words of the apostle Paul to be rather profound in one of his letters to the Corinthians. "It is good for a man to NOT touch (live in marraige with or touch sexually) a woman". Please spare me the the usual knee-jerk reaction even Christian women have when confronted with these verses. I know women like to accuse Paul of being a misogynist. Any time any man anywhere criticizes any member of the female species, he faces the probability that any woman within earshot will point her finger and scream "Misogynist!"

 

Sorry. No dice.

 

Men are waking up to reality, and it just doesn't sit well with women. It's getting harder and harder to find men who actually have anything to offer a woman who are willing to get married. We are backing away in increasing numbers, and simply aren't willing to sacrifice ourselves on the matrimonial altar. In my profession, I come into contact with a lot of men of all ages and socio-economic levels, and I have a lot of opportunity to listen to their views about life, marraige and women. What has caught my attention in recent years is the barely veiled hostility- even hatred- that many of the men I encounter have towards women. I was born in 1961, and I was raised in a time when men and women weren't yet at war with each other, and the change in attitudes on the part of men has been shocking.

 

What did you expect would happen?

 

Are you that naive?

 

If any of you are familiar with the history of WW2, you might remember the comment made by the Japanese Admiral (I think it was Yamamoto) right after the bombing of Pearl Harbor when he said that he felt that all they had done was to "awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

 

In your attempts to achieve equality, as you claim, you have simply made enemies out of the majority of men in this country, and it's not getting any better. Again, remember that if the Titanic went down today, it wouldn't be women first into the lifeboats. Not by a long shot. Even the men who don't hate women generally have no respect for them. A man has to look long and hard to find a genuine LADY these days, and they are virtually non-existant in the under forty crowd.

 

As to the woman who questioned my statistics about women initiating the vast majority of divorce proceedings, I can refer you to many books in my personal library (many written by attorneys specializing in divorce) or to a number of web sites dealing with marraige and/or divorce. The figure varies from state to state, but the tendency is always the same: women are abandoning their marraiges. They are eager to get married, and just as eager to get divorced. The financial incentives make it attractive to them. Why work on your marital difficulties when you can boot out the hubby, and keep his paycheck?

 

It's called the "Walk Away Wife Syndrome", and it has become the new rage with women today. Women get bored. They find a new man (or woman) that excites them more. They fall out of "love". They....oh, heck. Women can rationalize away their marraige vows on the flimsiest of reasons.

 

I have found that women have an infinite capacity for self-dellusion. The fact is that women have been told that they should pursue their own happiness at the expense of that of other people, especially any poor schmuck that they happen to be married to. We used to call that character flaw "selfishness", but women now refer to it as "self-fulfillment" or "empowerment" or some-such nonsense. With women, it's always "I, I, I, Me, Me, Me, Mine, Mine, Mine".

 

What we have today is a generation of women who are entitlement princesses. You think the entire world revolves around YOU, and you can't figure out why so many men want nothing to do with...YOU!

 

Your responses are typical, and they were not unexpected. To think otherwise requires a great deal of personal integrity and a conscience. Novel concept, eh?

 

While I'm at it, I might as well go for the jugular. I'll offer you another reason men, especially decent men with morals, are abandoning women.

 

STD's.

 

Yep.

 

How about HPV? Heard of it? I'll bet you have, ladies. The Human Papilloma Virus, and it comes in a veritable smorgasbord of flavors, so to speak. Dozens of strains are available to those who can't practice restraint and have (gasp!) morality. Some strains cause warts, and some cause cancer. HPV has also been implicated in some cases of oral cancer, anal cancer, penile cancer and is suspected of possibly being responsible for many other forms of cancer.

 

Have you ever heard of cervical cancer? In 99.7% of cases of cervical cancer, HPV is implicated. Ever have a Pap Smear? Whatcha think they're looking for? Gold?

 

But the most offensive and distressing aspect for many women who have HPV is warts. Genital warts. They come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and colors, and they often smell.....bad. Sometimes they grow very fast, and sometimes not. Sometimes they don't grow much, and sometimes you have no symptoms at all. Sometimes they get huge. Like cauliflower. Some women can have hundreds of little warts. They can cover the thighs. The vulva. They can fill the vagina. They can cover the cervix. They can fill the anus. They can require a colostomy in extreme cases.

 

Some women don't know thay are infected at all, and yet spread it to others who DO develop symptoms. Or not.

 

They say that up to 80% of women have been exposed to at least one strain of HPV, and it's a given that by a woman's second sexual partner she will have encountered HPV. Some doctors say that HPV eventually is beaten by your immune system. Most of the time. Other doctors say that is not true, and it's an unproven theory. Other doctors say there is no way of knowing.

 

Can anyone say HERPES? Ever have a cold sore? Herpes. Twenty-five to thirty percent of women have genital Herpes (HSV2), and up to 80-90% have oral Herpes (HSV1). Sometimes HSV1 is upstairs, and sometimes it's downstairs. The same with HSV2. It's all Herpes. Painful? Could be. Or so I hear. Ever price Valtrex? Wow. You'd almost need to take out a second mortgage to finance that suppressive therapy.

 

AIDS?

 

Chlamydia?

 

Plus several dozens more STD's, or STI's as they are now referring to them.

 

You may accuse me of any number of things, but you will never accuse me of having an STD. I don't have sex with women (or men, either) and have never been exposed to anything. EVER. I am as pure as the driven snow. Physically speaking, of course. I stay celibate not just for moral reasons, but for health reasons. A very wise and highly moral young woman that I once knew and deeply admired once said that "if you don't fear God, then you had better fear the diseases". Her words impacted my life, and I am deeply grateful to her for her wisdom, as I have passed on her comments to hundreds of people.

 

Ladies, you can have your new-found freedom and liberation with all of the diseases that come with it. American women are riddled with STD's, and any decent man will think twice before ever touching a woman anymore.

 

I only wish you the best and hope my words will make you re-examine your lives. I don't hate women. I just hate what most of you have become.

 

Christopher

[slinkysu]

Oh, ladies.

 

Sigh.

 

As usual, you just won't listen. The usual accusations of being a misogynist are used to cloud the issue. No; I don't hate women. I have little respect and a great deal of pity for most of today's women who have their own hearts full of hatred and venom for men, however.

 

As to the idea that I am somehow miserable because of my supposed hatred of women and the fact that I don't have a woman in my life......nonsense. (You should see my financial portfolio). I am anything but miserable. Unlike most married or divorced men.

 

I used to be a Christian, as I have mentioned before, and always found the words of the apostle Paul to be rather profound in one of his letters to the Corinthians. "It is good for a man to NOT touch (live in marraige with or touch sexually) a woman". Please spare me the the usual knee-jerk reaction even Christian women have when confronted with these verses. I know women like to accuse Paul of being a misogynist. Any time any man anywhere criticizes any member of the female species, he faces the probability that any woman within earshot will point her finger and scream "Misogynist!"

 

Sorry. No dice.

 

Men are waking up to reality, and it just doesn't sit well with women. It's getting harder and harder to find men who actually have anything to offer a woman who are willing to get married. We are backing away in increasing numbers, and simply aren't willing to sacrifice ourselves on the matrimonial altar. In my profession, I come into contact with a lot of men of all ages and socio-economic levels, and I have a lot of opportunity to listen to their views about life, marraige and women. What has caught my attention in recent years is the barely veiled hostility- even hatred- that many of the men I encounter have towards women. I was born in 1961, and I was raised in a time when men and women weren't yet at war with each other, and the change in attitudes on the part of men has been shocking.

 

What did you expect would happen?

 

Are you that naive?

 

If any of you are familiar with the history of WW2, you might remember the comment made by the Japanese Admiral (I think it was Yamamoto) right after the bombing of Pearl Harbor when he said that he felt that all they had done was to "awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

 

In your attempts to achieve equality, as you claim, you have simply made enemies out of the majority of men in this country, and it's not getting any better. Again, remember that if the Titanic went down today, it wouldn't be women first into the lifeboats. Not by a long shot. Even the men who don't hate women generally have no respect for them. A man has to look long and hard to find a genuine LADY these days, and they are virtually non-existant in the under forty crowd.

 

As to the woman who questioned my statistics about women initiating the vast majority of divorce proceedings, I can refer you to many books in my personal library (many written by attorneys specializing in divorce) or to a number of web sites dealing with marraige and/or divorce. The figure varies from state to state, but the tendency is always the same: women are abandoning their marraiges. They are eager to get married, and just as eager to get divorced. The financial incentives make it attractive to them. Why work on your marital difficulties when you can boot out the hubby, and keep his paycheck?

 

It's called the "Walk Away Wife Syndrome", and it has become the new rage with women today. Women get bored. They find a new man (or woman) that excites them more. They fall out of "love". They....oh, heck. Women can rationalize away their marraige vows on the flimsiest of reasons.

 

I have found that women have an infinite capacity for self-dellusion. The fact is that women have been told that they should pursue their own happiness at the expense of that of other people, especially any poor schmuck that they happen to be married to. We used to call that character flaw "selfishness", but women now refer to it as "self-fulfillment" or "empowerment" or some-such nonsense. With women, it's always "I, I, I, Me, Me, Me, Mine, Mine, Mine".

 

What we have today is a generation of women who are entitlement princesses. You think the entire world revolves around YOU, and you can't figure out why so many men want nothing to do with...YOU!

 

Your responses are typical, and they were not unexpected. To think otherwise requires a great deal of personal integrity and a conscience. Novel concept, eh?

 

While I'm at it, I might as well go for the jugular. I'll offer you another reason men, especially decent men with morals, are abandoning women.

 

STD's.

 

Yep.

 

How about HPV? Heard of it? I'll bet you have, ladies. The Human Papilloma Virus, and it comes in a veritable smorgasbord of flavors, so to speak. Dozens of strains are available to those who can't practice restraint and have (gasp!) morality. Some strains cause warts, and some cause cancer. HPV has also been implicated in some cases of oral cancer, anal cancer, penile cancer and is suspected of possibly being responsible for many other forms of cancer.

 

Have you ever heard of cervical cancer? In 99.7% of cases of cervical cancer, HPV is implicated. Ever have a Pap Smear? Whatcha think they're looking for? Gold?

 

But the most offensive and distressing aspect for many women who have HPV is warts. Genital warts. They come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes and colors, and they often smell.....bad. Sometimes they grow very fast, and sometimes not. Sometimes they don't grow much, and sometimes you have no symptoms at all. Sometimes they get huge. Like cauliflower. Some women can have hundreds of little warts. They can cover the thighs. The vulva. They can fill the vagina. They can cover the cervix. They can fill the anus. They can require a colostomy in extreme cases.

 

Some women don't know thay are infected at all, and yet spread it to others who DO develop symptoms. Or not.

 

They say that up to 80% of women have been exposed to at least one strain of HPV, and it's a given that by a woman's second sexual partner she will have encountered HPV. Some doctors say that HPV eventually is beaten by your immune system. Most of the time. Other doctors say that is not true, and it's an unproven theory. Other doctors say there is no way of knowing.

 

Can anyone say HERPES? Ever have a cold sore? Herpes. Twenty-five to thirty percent of women have genital Herpes (HSV2), and up to 80-90% have oral Herpes (HSV1). Sometimes HSV1 is upstairs, and sometimes it's downstairs. The same with HSV2. It's all Herpes. Painful? Could be. Or so I hear. Ever price Valtrex? Wow. You'd almost need to take out a second mortgage to finance that suppressive therapy.

 

AIDS?

 

Chlamydia?

 

Plus several dozens more STD's, or STI's as they are now referring to them.

 

You may accuse me of any number of things, but you will never accuse me of having an STD. I don't have sex with women (or men, either) and have never been exposed to anything. EVER. I am as pure as the driven snow. Physically speaking, of course. I stay celibate not just for moral reasons, but for health reasons. A very wise and highly moral young woman that I once knew and deeply admired once said that "if you don't fear God, then you had better fear the diseases". Her words impacted my life, and I am deeply grateful to her for her wisdom, as I have passed on her comments to hundreds of people.

 

Ladies, you can have your new-found freedom and liberation with all of the diseases that come with it. American women are riddled with STD's, and any decent man will think twice before ever touching a woman anymore.

 

I only wish you the best and hope my words will make you re-examine your lives. I don't hate women. I just hate what most of you have become.

 

Christopher

 

*sigh*

 

Again, Christopher, you have completely missed the point.

[crazy_grl]

As to the idea that I am somehow miserable because of my supposed hatred of women and the fact that I don't have a woman in my life......nonsense. (You should see my financial portfolio). I am anything but miserable. Unlike most married or divorced men.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who links the state of their happiness to the size of their financial portfolio.

 

You're completely missing what I'm saying. I said you're missing out on a lot because you harbor such thoughts of negativity, not because you don't have a woman in your life. Whether you call it hatred or not, you still see a majority of women in a negative light and you go on and on about it.

 

If you let go of all this negativy and bitterness, the world will seem such a better place. If there's so much you dislike about the majority of women, then stop focusing on them. Stop writing long rants about how aweful things are.

 

This isn't about women. If you were sitting here raging on so strongly about how aweful dogs, trees, work, money, or anything is, I'd still feel bad for you for letting yourself be filled with such negativity instead of focusing on the good things in life.

 

What has caught my attention in recent years is the barely veiled hostility- even hatred- that many of the men I encounter have towards women.

 

You act as though women are missing out because these men hate women. I think it's the men missing out... as are the women who hate men.

 

And just because you find yourself around people who think the same as you doesn't mean everyone in the world is that way. With all the extensive research you claim to have done, I'd think you would have learned that basic principle.

 

Also, I wasn't aware that STDs were only a female problem and that females are solely responsible for spreading them. Thanks for the 'information'...

 

(I have a feeling none of this is going to get through, because you're going to hear what you want and soon we'll get another post on how women don't listen, like to call people misogynists, and then a bunch of completely ridiculous 'facts'.)

[Cassius666]

Ladies marriage puts a man which you expect to provide with his back against the wall. Look at men who are 50 something. 1 out of 2 of those men who married live in a sea of misery due to divorce. Divorce means you loose your house your money your kids, while your exwife is free to welcome any men in the house you payed for and is very well capabel of saying "its your fault" "he deserves it". In America it is better to loose your family to a massmurderer than to divorce. You can not start over after divorce and seek your self fullfillment with a new wife because you are BROKE and noone will set up family with somone who can not provide. You can get pregnant without marriage, thats right, marriage is not requiered for pregnancy. If you want a family discuss it with your bf. You wont pressure him for the marriage he fears and he will get you pregnant and be a daddy to your children. Maybe you can find a consensus for the both of you this way.

[ridingthebulls]

It creates a moral obligation and expectation. It's embarrassing if you fail.

 

 

And this is a reason to keep a marriage together? Not for love, but for everyone else? That's no marriage and I would never want any part in it.

Happiness and love doesn't stem from CHAINING a man to you. And you should always know the REAL reason a man HAS TO STAY WITH YOU.. not for love or happiness, just to prove other people wrong or cause he is fearful of losing everything.

[blue-sky1982]

maybe leave him is the best way

[Christopher 1]

For the record, I am certainly not a negative person. I am a realist. I call things as I see them, be they good or bad. Truth is all I am concerned with on any issue. Again, as to negative attitudes, it might be interesting to note that women are by far the one's most likely to be taking anti-depressants such as Welbutrin, Zoloft, Prozac and a host of other medications. As a rule, women are far more likely to have emotional problems requiring medication. So many women can't seem to face life if their not doped up.

 

I tend to see things through the eyes of a reasonably successful bachelor who has never been involved with a woman romantically. To me, life is a coming up roses, so to speak. I am free in my personal life, and free to state my opinions, unlike the average married man who is terrified of angering the woman he is legally enslaved to.

 

I suspect that I struck a nerve on the STD issue, as statistically speaking, the vast majority of women under the age of forty are literally riddled with Sexually Transmitted Infections like HPV, Genital Herpes, and Chlamydia. Very, very few women in this age bracket have escaped permanent life-long infection with either HPV or Herpes. VERY few. So, I realize that I won't win any popularity contest by bringing up a sore issue for most women who read my comments.

 

The fact is that most women have numerous sexual partners before they ever settle down into their first marraige, and they carry whatever nasty bugs they have acquired by their promiscuity right into their marraige. I have had the opportunity to educate groups of people, usually in the eighteen to thirty age group, on the dangers of pre-marital sex, and I have always been amazed at the difference in attirudes between most young women as opposed to most young men. The majority of men have appreciated the information, and many have been visually shaken up when they have learned the statistics with regards to HPV and Herpes. Many young women resent the information. They just don't want to hear about it, or so it would seem. There have been exceptions, but they were that- exceptions. One would wonder why.

 

It's not that difficult to figure out. A woman's power over men is almost entirely sexual. Take that away from her, (and by that I mean by warning men that sex with a woman is a spring-board to disaster health-wise) and she has....nothing. If men are educated about the dangers of STD's and indeed the dangers of marraige or any romantic involvement with any woman, then what do women have left? Other women? That might explain the dramatic increase in lesbianism and bisexuality among women, as it's getting harder and harder to find men who are willing to commit for the long haul in marraige. Men ARE wising up, as evidenced by the number of relationship forums like this or Divorce-Busters or the Mars-Venus site where women come to complain that they can't get a man to take that suicidal plunge- marraige. They are also complaining of a problem that might surprise some; men are increasingly turned off to sex with their own wives. It's not surprising. Who wants to make love to a rattlesnake? Women have lost whatever femininity they once had.

 

But, as it has been said before, enjoy your cats ladies. In the long run, that's all you'll ever have.

[genegri]

I, for one, am a much happier woman than I would've been if I was born into the '50's, but thank you for your concern.

 

Actually I agree with whoever said marriage is not always the answer.

 

I wanted to get married because I wanted to have a child. But then I realized I could have a child without marriage. It's not necessarily better one way or another.

 

Now I am doing very well financially and I had my child (a decison, not an accident) without getting married. For me, it's actually much freer this way.

 

My child's father can visit whenever it suits me and I don't ask for any child support. No need for it.

 

Of course, if you have a good partner and both of you want to marry, then by all means. There is no need to get married simply for the sake of getting married. Thank of it, ladies, even if you get married, you will probably die alone anyway because women live longer than men. So, set your mind free.

[justagirliegirl]

 

But, as it has been said before, enjoy your cats ladies. In the long run, that's all you'll ever have.

 

Are you enjoying yours?

[Christopher 1]

Actually.....YES! I DO enjoy my cats!!!

 

They're Siamese, and they run my home. Elmo, the Chocolate point, has the bluest eyes I've ever seen on a cat. He has the most laid-back disposition you could hope for. He's always happy.

 

Sister, the Lavender point, is a perfect mirror to the average woman. Selfish, jealous, moody, lashes out with her claws for no apparent reason, flighty, unpredictable and alternates between being very loving and downright vicious. She constantly follows me around howling at me. The perfect nag.

 

But, unlike women, who rely on cats because their sexual power has disappeared and no one wants them any more, or because they are infected with some nasty, warty disease, I have my cats because, frankly, I like cats.

 

As a man with a very good job, a nice paid-for home, and a bit of change in my pocket, I will always be desireable. My value does not depend on maintaining youthful looks, which in the case of a woman is temporary at best. My value will not decrease as long as my financial situation doesn't deteriorate, and that is almost impossible. Almost.

 

Every day that passes, a woman grows less desireable. She fights the ravages of time with cosmetics, and later with face lifts and liposuction. But, time is against her. No matter how hard she tries to maintain her youth, it won't last. At age thirty, her looks take a vicious nose-dive, and it's all downhill from there.

 

But, I digress. I was trying to say that, yes, I do love my cats.

 

Christopher

[kulyok]

Er, Christopher, you know, a job and a home may carry some weight in the eyes of some women, but many others(I do say many) do not give a damn how much their loved one earns, especially if they don't want children.

 

I'd say if a guy has a low self-esteem, is insecure, unable to maintain a relationship, is generally in need of therapy and is up to his ears in various complexes, no amount of money will get him a loving wife. (The same goes for a woman, naturally).

 

I do not know where STD statistics comes from, but to me the answer is obvious: if you think (wo)men have STDs because they sleep around, then those women who do not sleep around(the majority, actually - I don't have any girl friends who had more than one or two sexual partners) don't.

 

I dare say they are happy in their relationships, too - hopefully you'll be happy in yours.

 

I believe you that a woman grows less desireable with age for you, sure enough. :-) It doesn't mean a woman grows less desireable with age as a fact, though. I agree, physical attraction plays a part, but the main thing is that drive, that sparkle that a woman has - and if she does, she'll never be short of suitors.

 

All in all, I think you may be generalising a bit.

[biggirlsrock]

I'm sorry Heedly,

 

It sucks that it has come to this, do you think that it could be your 4 yr age gap? I mean, that's not a lot at all but maybe he just isn't ready. Another thing could be is the whole theory of " Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free"? It dosn't necessarily sound like thats his problem but a lot of guys think that way. If this is what you truly want ( and not because everyone around you is getting married ) because everyone dosn't have the same relationship you have.

 

If you really want this- maybe you should talk to him and explain yourself- let him know whats up, if it was meant to be, and you want to wait- then you wouldn't mind waiting for a few more years when he is finally ready to marry, or you could go your seperate ways but in doing that you may have to start yet another long term relationship, but at least this time you will both have the same motives- marriage.

[stillafool]

I just read the thread "Divorce: How can people afford to move on" and it's really sad what these guys have to go through to get out of an unhappy marriage. As a woman I feel sad for what is being said here about women but have to admit it does seem that men have somewhat lost their zest for us. Thank God I'm married already and don't have kids. Ladies it does seem that women these days always go for and want the "bad boys". I think this attitude is making these guys all feel like why should I be nice when nice guys finish last. They feel like they should be a dog and date all these women, treat them like s**t and maybe all the women will flock their way. It seems when even young girls have a nice boyfriend they are always ready to dump him if the "bad boy" looks their way. Is it our egos that make us want to conquer something we feel we can't have?

[Guest]

To the OP and others. Wow I could have written your frustrations myself. I have been with my boyfriend for five years (next month). At first he was the one pushing marriage and always talking about it. He bought a house only five months after we started dating (he'd previously lived with his parents) and I moved in with him exactly a year since we began dating. He was engaged to his last gf after a year a half so I expected we would get engaged soon. He first talked about getting engaged three months after we moved into togehter. Then he never brought it up again for antoher year. He actually went out and bought a ring (which I eventually made him take back) because I felt he only bought it because I was "bugging" him about getting married/engaged. From day one he has stated he wanted to be engaged for about a year then get married. When we first started dating he said he'd like to get married in two years. Well today here I am five years later and while he has a ring and has shown it to me, no proposal. He talks about it every few months and other than him asking me to marry him on new years day when I was crying because I found out my best friend just got engaged to a guy she had been dating for 3 months! He never brings it up. HE says he wants to get married but won't move forward. In the early years he was always saying he wasnt' ready or that his ex fiance really hurt him or some other excuse. I too am almost 30 and would like to be married so that I can have children. (all of my other family members near my age, have all have children out of wedlock and I don't want to go that route) I feel that I have wasted my time with this "great" guy who I love and who in all other respectes treats me very well. I too fear that he is holding out for something better and I am so afraid that if I leave him he will meet someoen and marry her right away and I will feel like even more of a failure than i already do.

[norajane]

HE says he wants to get married but won't move forward.

 

Clearly, what you are currently doing...living with him and waiting with occaisional bouts of tears...isn't working. You have a few options. Move out and try to continue seeing him. Break up with him and move out. Stay with him, but insist that you both go to pre-marital counseling so that he can discuss his fears with you in a productive way.

 

Something in your behavior must change, or he'll continue doing what he's doing...he has no reason to do otherwise because you continue to accept his behavior.

 

How much longer do you think you can wait? It may upset you to take some steps to change things, but how much more upset will you be 1, 2, or 5 years from now if you are in exactly the same situation?

[stillafool]

. I too fear that he is holding out for something better and I am so afraid that if I leave him he will meet someoen and marry her right away and I will feel like even more of a failure than i already do.

 

Honey if this is the case you are only prolonging the inevitable. Let him go and if he's for you he will come back. If he meets someone else and marries her it will be because he loved her not because you left too soon. Holding on to him could cause you to miss out on your true love who won't hesitate about his feelings for you. I think you have been going with him long enough (5 yrs.) and by not he should know if he wants to marry you or not.

[Guest_jean]

I'm not too sure what to do....

 

I've been with my boyfriend for four years, we've lived together for a year. I'm not sure what I'm feeling right now. I want so much to just be happy with what we have right now, but I'm starting to not be, it's beginning to not be enough.

 

He keeps telling me that we're not married because he can't afford a ring. I know that he doesn't have a lot of extra money right now, we're very open about our finances. I just can't bring myself to believe him. He has a credit card, charge it. The jeweler has a credit program. I just keep thinking to myself, "If he really wanted to marry me, he would find a way". Is that wrong of me?

 

I'm starting to feel trapped. We bought our condo together, both our names are on the mortgage. He sees that as a big enough commitment. I see it as him not being able to get the house on his credit, so he put me on there because I have better credit than he does.

 

I just don't know what do to. I love him so much, I love him more than anything. I can't ever see myself leaving him or being without him. I just don't get it.

 

I am also in the situation of all my friends marrying. His sister just got engaged yesterday. I felt so crappy. I tried so hard to be happy for her, and I truly am, she deserves it. I couldn't help feeling sorry for myself and pissed off at him. I feel so bad for feeling this way, it makes me so sad. I feel like such a horrible person, but I really want it to be me.

 

I'm standing up in what will be my sixth wedding in December. SIXTH. At least I only have one more to go-I only have one friend left who isn't married.

 

I feel so hopeless. Some days I want to cry. I love him more than anything, but I'm scared that he'll never do it, I'm scared that this is going nowhere.

[norajane]

I'm not too sure what to do....

 

I've been with my boyfriend for four years, we've lived together for a year. I'm not sure what I'm feeling right now. I want so much to just be happy with what we have right now, but I'm starting to not be, it's beginning to not be enough.

 

He keeps telling me that we're not married because he can't afford a ring. I know that he doesn't have a lot of extra money right now, we're very open about our finances. I just can't bring myself to believe him. He has a credit card, charge it. The jeweler has a credit program. I just keep thinking to myself, "If he really wanted to marry me, he would find a way". Is that wrong of me?

 

I'm starting to feel trapped. We bought our condo together, both our names are on the mortgage. He sees that as a big enough commitment. I see it as him not being able to get the house on his credit, so he put me on there because I have better credit than he does.

 

I just don't know what do to. I love him so much, I love him more than anything. I can't ever see myself leaving him or being without him. I just don't get it.

 

I am also in the situation of all my friends marrying. His sister just got engaged yesterday. I felt so crappy. I tried so hard to be happy for her, and I truly am, she deserves it. I couldn't help feeling sorry for myself and pissed off at him. I feel so bad for feeling this way, it makes me so sad. I feel like such a horrible person, but I really want it to be me.

 

I'm standing up in what will be my sixth wedding in December. SIXTH. At least I only have one more to go-I only have one friend left who isn't married.

 

I feel so hopeless. Some days I want to cry. I love him more than anything, but I'm scared that he'll never do it, I'm scared that this is going nowhere.

 

I'm sorry to say that you should have put your foot down before buying the condo.

 

If the ring is the only problem, suggest to him that you buy it yourself. You'll find out if that's really the only problem or not.

[wddcjordan]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am new to this format so please don't hold any inconsistencies against me!

 

I noticed a few other posts from young women like myself who are in very long term relationships with good men who are resistant to marriage or engagement. I must admit that the responses from some of you who wrote back to them made me cry. It is sad to face the reality that a relationship will never progress because for one reason or another, the man does not want it to. I thought maybe I would post about my own situation and look for some honest responses.

 

My BF and I have been together for 8 years, since college when he was 17 and I was 21. We have broken up a few times, but mostly have been together and when we are we have a solid, caring relationship that I think makes the perfect foundation for a marriage. He is responsible, intelligent, good-looking, caring...He even moved to the other side of the country to join me. Recently he began a new career somewhere else far away, and I moved to join him.

 

All of our friends are getting married now - every couple from college is married or engaged except for us. I really, really want to be engaged. I feel that my other girlfriends have suceeded where I have failed, that their boyfriends value them more than mine values me, that they must be prettier or nicer or smarter than I am. As I am now almost 30, I am really ready for marriage and a family. He says that he probably wants to marry me someday, but he is just not mature enough to make that sort of decision yet. He says that since my work requires me to travel outside the country for long periods of time (one year total in the last 18 months), our relationship cannot really advance that quickly. He won't ever speak in specifics and I am getting nowhere with trying to discuss it nicely with him.

 

Well, now I have really gotten myself in a sticky situation. I love him and I want to marry him, but I don't sense he is even interested in a long engagement until he becomes financially stable (which is a major concern for him, and won't happen for at least 2 more years - when I will be 32.) So, since I want a husband and a family, I wonder if I need to give him an ultimatum (which I fear would never work) or simply leave him and not even tell him why. The problem is, I have uprooted my whole life and made financial commitments that involve my family to move here to this new town with him (I don't even like it here, and he is too busy with work too even spend time with me, but that is another story.) So now what do I do?

 

This month is also the 8 year anniversary of when we started dating, and he has totally forgotten. I am a healthy, nice, intelligent, and attractive young woman, but I feel like no one will ever want me now, and my chances at marriage and family are getting ruined every day. Is there a way I can make him see the seriousness of the situation, or should I just throw in the towel? Please help!

 

 

No matter what love is love. We all (especially women) want it and need it. If you love him and are happy with him dont push marriage, its only a piece of paper, its not what binds you together. If you are unhappy with the way things are leave on good terms, marriage will not fix your happiness. My husband and I have lived together for 9 years, we have a 8 year old and a 2 year old, we have only been married for 7 months. I know that seems strange but it just wasnt the right time for us, when we decided to get married we were at a good place.

 

And I believe everyone should wait to get married until they are in a good place. If you dont you will be headed for divorce court and that is no fun. You need to do some serious searching of yourself and see what your really want what is really important to you. You will both benefit from waiting if he isnt ready.