Hah...I should have done a search for counseling sooner. (2 months sooner)

[Wolfp]

At least for the near battle...Finally got the kids enrolled in school. What a relief. Had to pull info from East and West and two continents. Mix in a mini tropical storm and my stress levels were running high. You know, I really dont expect much, but when it comes to my kids I want ppl to be a little more proactive. I was near to be postal this morning in the guidance counselors office (teeth gritted, low growl, lots of demands) because it seemed none of the info I requested had been sent. Fact was, they didnt have an efficient distro system in the office, so ppl were just grabbing crap off the fax and stashing it wherever. Made for an interesting morning as office workers were scurrying about trying to placate the simmering Marine. But, they found it all in the end. There is alot to be said for telling ppl you arent going to accept the situation or their excuses. Makes em really nervous when you start going over step by step with them what they had done or failed to do. Makes em quickly realize, maybe they didnt do everything within their power and they were slacking. Whatever, I got the job done plus gave em all a smile and a thank you at the end (break em down then build em back up). Now I dont know what to do with myself as the two strap-hangers are back in school. Think I will go look at new cars.

[Gunny376]

. Think I will go look at new cars.

 

ROFLMAO!

 

Yea! That's always a good way to relief stress ~ go play and match wits with car salesmen!

[Ladyjane14]

ROFLMAO!

 

Yea! That's always a good way to relief stress ~ go play and match wits with car salesmen!

 

 

It'd be good timing for it after all that. My money's on Wolf. I'm thinking the car salesman will end up bringing a bagged lunch to work tomorrow.

[Wolfp]

Ok...Bought an Elantra yesterday. Good little car for me to use until the truck returns from overseas and then DD can take it to college when she departs the nest in a year. Next up...18-21 foot Hobie Cat. Been wanting one for years. I love sailing. Have to wait until the weather gets a little cooler, than see if I can score one for a song.

[Wolfp]

Well DW finally contacted us and talked for a while. She sounded lucid and in good spirits for once. They have her on double the amount of prozac and she is seeing a psychiatrist. Talked mainly about the kids, school, and how everything was going swimmingly. Stayed away from relationship talk, etc. Hurt like hell when she was talking on her dad's phone to someone else and she was trying to explain who she was talking to. She couldnt say husband for whatever reason. Stayed in listening mode, upbeat, and chipper throughout. Let her know we were glad she was doing better. She still doesnt have a job and let me know that money was still a problem. Let her know that if she needed assistance, she only had to call. Told me she had a clerk from Wal-Mart ask her out. I asked her how it made her feel, she said strange as I am the only one she has known for the last 18 years. Told me not to worry, that it wouldnt be long until females started hitting on me as well. Didnt have the heart to tell her I already have already had numerous phone numbers and email addresses handed to me. Oh well, will continue to stay the course, watch and wait. Question for the general public, now that she has initiated contact again, what now? Hell, I had already psyched myself up for never hearing from her again. And here is the scary part for me...after doing some soul searching, I dont think I want her back. She has caused enough chaos in lives of my children and me, not sure I want to risk that happening again. It feels a little strange knowing I am leaning toward not letting her back in if she were to ask. Very strange indeed.

[Wolfp]

Thanks for the above phrase Gunz...very useful. Here is the question and need to get some input. I have had time to pull apart the different aspects of the conversation with DW the other night. Personally, I get the feeling she is trying to snap me back into line/make sure I am not pulling away too fast based on the following from our conversation:

 

-When we initially started talking, I asked her if she wanted to talk to the kids. She said no, she wanted to talk to me, then kept me on the phone for 30 minutes only giving the kids about 5 minutes apiece after.

 

-Comments about how the psyche ward in Argentina was much better than the one in VA (it has some relevance, just not sure what the message was, its like an itch I cant scratch).

 

-Commented that she was on double the amount of prozac, seeing a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

 

-Statement that she still doesnt have a job and that her latest crash occurred while she was waiting to talk to the personel director in the hospital where she wants to work.

 

-Statement about the Wal-Mart clerk asking her out and telling me not to worry it would happen soon for me too (liked your comment about that one Gunz...I'm a Major of Marines, at least trade up! )

 

-Telling me she doesnt know how to refer to me now when speaking with others about me (my husband, or using my name would have sufficed, but may be a bridge too far for her)

 

-Asking me if I was going to be sent back to Iraq soon (this one floored me; why should she care one way or the other, and if I get zapped, she definitely wont get any money out of it; it all goes to the kids)

 

-Asking me numerous personal questions such as when I was moving into the apartment, phone numbers where I could be reached, when I was going back to work, where I would be working, etc.

 

-Telling me she was out of clothing.

 

-Telling me money was a problem for her.

 

-Telling me she wasnt speaking to her mom.

 

-Telling me she didnt think her dad was going to let her hang around much longer because he was getting married again (4th award)

 

-And the repeated "well, you know me", or "you know how I am"

 

These are just wavetops, I am not sure I understand fully the message she is sending above. It seems like she is just trying to jerk my chain, me around or trying to keep her options open. I am planning on taking the seps agreement up within the next week or two. I am pretty sure (80/20) that at this point I dont want her back in my life, and it would take some strong show of something for me to allow her back in (heck, I have no idea what that something could be or if it exists). Comments?

[Guest]

i was on divorcebusting for awhile. read a bunch of books too. i won't give you any advice because advice can be discouraging. but my wife was a walk away wife--AND SHE AIN'T WALK BACK! she tried to leave --clearout--while i was out of town but i cam eback early and in the middle of her 'escape'. after much research, counseling, ect, i've come to terms with it and i'm trying to get on with my life. one thing i have learned is that once they're gone, they probably won't come back. and the reason they left is seldom the reason they give you for leaving. i hope you situation works out for you. now i need to register for this website!

[Gunny376]

military analogy ~ but this is an adversial relationship ~ and much of the same applies. You cannot control the actions of your adversary ~ but you can control your side of it, and your reactions to your adversary. Its time to introduce Mr. Reality into the "fog"

 

Its hard to deny to yourself that your getting your ass kicked when the other guy's handing it to you on a silver platter.

 

Stay? Go? Come back? Whatever? Either lead, follow, or get the Hell out of the way! Life's too short not to be living it to its fullest. Once you get past forty ~ the years fly by like the pages of a book in a hurricane. The time to get real about your life ~ is now. Just ask anyone who has a life threatening experience.

 

Me? I don't have time for this kind of thing anymore. Either get on, or stay off! Either way, the train's leaving the station, and I'm on board!

[Wolfp]

Well...day 2 since the call for parley and serving of 'The Agreement' with nada in return. Seems she has dropped off the net once again with me and the kids. I definitely am not driving 4 hours to find nothing but empty air on the other end. Suppose I shall try once more via email than if I get nothing, the dreaded "Phone". Gah!

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks for the above phrase Gunz...very useful. Here is the question and need to get some input. I have had time to pull apart the different aspects of the conversation with DW the other night. Personally, I get the feeling she is trying to snap me back into line/make sure I am not pulling away too fast based on the following from our conversation:

 

-When we initially started talking, I asked her if she wanted to talk to the kids. She said no, she wanted to talk to me, then kept me on the phone for 30 minutes only giving the kids about 5 minutes apiece after.

 

-Comments about how the psyche ward in Argentina was much better than the one in VA (it has some relevance, just not sure what the message was, its like an itch I cant scratch).

 

-Commented that she was on double the amount of prozac, seeing a psychiatrist and a psychologist.

 

-Statement that she still doesnt have a job and that her latest crash occurred while she was waiting to talk to the personel director in the hospital where she wants to work.

 

-Statement about the Wal-Mart clerk asking her out and telling me not to worry it would happen soon for me too (liked your comment about that one Gunz...I'm a Major of Marines, at least trade up! )

 

-Telling me she doesnt know how to refer to me now when speaking with others about me (my husband, or using my name would have sufficed, but may be a bridge too far for her)

 

-Asking me if I was going to be sent back to Iraq soon (this one floored me; why should she care one way or the other, and if I get zapped, she definitely wont get any money out of it; it all goes to the kids)

 

-Asking me numerous personal questions such as when I was moving into the apartment, phone numbers where I could be reached, when I was going back to work, where I would be working, etc.

 

-Telling me she was out of clothing.

 

-Telling me money was a problem for her.

 

-Telling me she wasnt speaking to her mom.

 

-Telling me she didnt think her dad was going to let her hang around much longer because he was getting married again (4th award)

 

-And the repeated "well, you know me", or "you know how I am"

 

These are just wavetops, I am not sure I understand fully the message she is sending above. It seems like she is just trying to jerk my chain, me around or trying to keep her options open. I am planning on taking the seps agreement up within the next week or two. I am pretty sure (80/20) that at this point I dont want her back in my life, and it would take some strong show of something for me to allow her back in (heck, I have no idea what that something could be or if it exists). Comments?

 

 

I missed this post, Wolf.

 

That "Wal-Mart clerk" thing really pissed me off.

The whole conversation was designed to manipulate. She went for the whole enchilada there too. The Damsel in Distress Routine, the Incite his Jealousy Routine, the Let's Be Friends Routine.... you name it, she played it.

 

She wants money, and she wants to jog you into giving her some by manipulating a reaction. Don't pursue her anymore. No calls, no emails, nothing. Make her come to you.... then label each of her ploys right on the spot. ie. "Honey, the let's-make-him-jealous routine doesn't work on me anymore. So, why not cut to the chase and tell me what you're really after?"

 

If she's up for game-playing.... I can't believe that her mental health issues are as bad as we previously thought. And even if they are, this isn't good for you or your children. Put you and your kids first. I can't prove it, but I get a gut feeling that this girl is making CHOICES.

[Wolfp]

Thanks for the response LJ and yep, I agree. She is after something and playing a game. I think part of the reason she keeps dropping in and out of contact is to give me a jog to make sure I dont pull away too far too fast. Her original doctor had told me she would be doing this, checking in occasionally to make sure I wasnt getting to full of myself and if I was, try and stop it. That and the conversations havent gone the way she expected, I suppose because all my responses to her have been neutral and she keeps cutting contact. Think it gives her time to re-orient and try a different line of attack. Last time (before this latest pnone call) she didnt get what she wanted and ended up in the hospital. Be interesting to see if it happens again and how I will be notified (SIL called on my son's B'Day, talked to the boy and told him, "Your moms wanted to wish you a happy B'Day but couldnt because she is back in the hospital". Gave SIL two barrels to the chest over that one.) Maybe being more aggressive the next time she calls and telling her to quit fiddle-f$#*ing around is the answer.

[Wolfp]

K...just want to throw this out and understand this is an initial gut reaction on my part...but here goes. DW just emailed both kids, cc'd one with the same message. Basically it goes into the same hum-drum message she normally sends...dont misbehave, blah, blah, blah,...The thing that caught my attention was the announcement that "they (yes the ubiquitous they; whoever they is) now believe I am having seizures, I am due to go to neurology in October." There wasnt a "dont worry", or "I'm OK" she just left it dangling. Again, this is my initial gut reaction, but to me she is once again trying to play the martyr with an "awww...look at poor me" maneuver while continuing to create an excuse for the reason she hasnt been there for them since May. It seems it also serves as a "see how much your dad doesnt care what happens to me" statement as well. Maybe I am reading too much into this, but my major concern is what effect it will have on the kids, I do not want them focusing on this instead of school and themselves. I guess my question is should I call her on it, or is that what she wants, trying to get to me through them. Should I just talk to the kids and let them know mom is a big girl and if she needs our help, she will ask. This is really chapping my azz (I need to go to Sams and buy the super sized chapstick, my azz has been chapped plenty lately ) Comments?

[Wolfp]

...and I didnt even consider this one. She may be building a case for alimoney. "Yes your honor, I used to be a nurse and make pretty good scratch, but this bad man dragged me down to Argentina and now I have a neurological disorder and cant work anymore" *sigh* CRAP!!!

[Gunny376]

...and I didnt even consider this one. She may be building a case for alimoney. "Yes your honor, I used to be a nurse and make pretty good scratch, but this bad man dragged me down to Argentina and now I have a neurological disorder and cant work anymore" *sigh* CRAP!!!

 

" Should I just talk to the kids and let them know mom is a big girl and if she needs our help, she will ask. "

 

I'd go with this one. Give the kids some credit ~ they are afterall your children too, and you're a bright enough guy, and the acrons usually don't fall too far from the tree.

 

I might attempt to explain to them about "they" and that if we could ever find out who "they" was and hang those bastards we could solve at least half of all of humanties problems! I've been wanting to find out who "they" is all of my life. "They said this! and They said that!"

 

And then there's the above, as well! After I retired, and while in college I worked in University Records. Use to pull subpeoned transcirpts for divorce cases all the time, and oddly enough for nurses. Many of them were hard to find, because they had been married so many times and didn't notify the Univeristy of their numerous name changes.

[Gunny376]

Here are Uncle Ed's Top Ten mistakes lawyers make when handling a military divorce.

 

Number 10. Preparing a Qualified Domestic Relations Order to effect the division of military retired pay.

 

Number 9. Not understanding the rules on reopening divorces before June 21, 1981.

 

Number 8. Not following the regulation when sending the application package to the finance center.

 

Number 7. Not understanding the special protections of the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act.

 

Number 6. Not understanding the "10 year" rule found in Section 1408(d)(2).

 

Number 5. Not understanding the special jurisdictional requirements of the Act in Section 1408©(4).

 

Number 4. Not ensuring that the order is clear as to the portion of the retirement that the former spouse is to receive.

 

Number 3. Not considering the rules about the effect of the death of the military member on the payments to the former spouse.

 

Number 2. Not studying the act and the regulations.

 

And the Number 1 mistake divorce lawyers make in handling military divorces is:

 

Not seeking the assistance of someone who has years of experience and a thorough understanding of the process.

[Ladyjane14]

I'm in agreement with Gunny. (Gee... I seem to do that alot lately. )

 

Leave the ball in your wife's court as far as contact goes. If she asks for help, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

She might be doing an end-around through the kids to get to you, or she might be trying to justify to them as to WHY she's been an absentee parent. Kids are smart though, and they'll draw their own conclusions as to who's there for them, and who's not.

 

Either way, until she shows her agenda... there's no action required on your part.

[Wolfp]

Well...she came back hat in hand. How do I begin. She called me in tears wondering if I would take her back as well as stating she knew this entire mess was her fault, that she didnt want the divorce, that she knows she has a problem and wants to get better. I replied by telling her that there was a way to return but the path would be narrow and long. Talked it over with the kids and we agreed to put her on a trial basis. She agreed to all the terms, she would continue treatment (drug and counseling), she would attend marriage counseling, she would read the half dozen books I had set aside on relationships, she would not have access to any accounts for the forseeable future, she would have to understand it would not go back to being what it was in the past, but something new and better would have to arise from the ashes of what was, and that at anytime I deemed she was not living up to her end of the bargain, I would haul her butt back to her fathers and we would continue life seperated until she either grew up or we were divorced in a year. Right now, she seems to be towing the line. Just have to wait and see if it continues or if this is just token acceptance with a slippery slide back to the way it was before. Focus at this point is internal with trying to rebuild my trust in her and rebuilding the relation with the kids. I want to thank everyone for their two cents, it really helped throught this difficult period. I'll keep you posted on what happens as things progress. THanks again. Gunz, I'll ship you a PM later, offer still stands, the door is always open if you find yourself up this way.

[Gunny376]

Sounds like a good strong Plan "A" and "B". Looks good from here, best of luck!

[Ladyjane14]

Good job on setting boundaries, Wolf. I'm not at all surprised that you had your bases covered, btw. :bunny:

 

I think you're right that the hard part will be rebuilding trust. That said, your wife hasn't EARNED it yet. Weirdly enough, it may be as important for her to actively accomplish that task as it is for you to see her do it.

 

I don't want to be gloomy here, but I'm not very hopeful that you're out of the woods yet. It's going to be DIFFICULT for your wife to pull her weight again within the family. And she seems to have a recent track record of bailing when times get tough.

 

A watchful stance is probably best. Try not to commit more resources than you can afford to lose.

[Gunny376]

I defer toward Lady Jane ~ but you've still got your LP's, OP's, and "L" shaped abmushes manned. Tripwires set. Claymore's, 50's, 60's and MK-19 strategically placed outbound. Regular SOP ~ Hope for the best, be prepared for the worse.

 

Curious, what the CMC's six required "readings" were?

 

Would recommend and complete pre-NASA app. medical and pyschological workup.

 

I would fully explain to her the concept of behavior ~ consequence. That is to say if you decided to upon behavior "A" it results in consequence "B"

 

Totally agree with the concept of "us" taking this train wreck and building a better railroad.

[Gunny376]

 

I think you're right that the hard part will be rebuilding trust. That said, your wife hasn't EARNED it yet. Weirdly enough, it may be as important for her to actively accomplish that task as it is for you to see her do it.

 

 

No! That a basic and fundamental pyschological concept in building "slackers" Marine recurits into Marines. Break them down, and build them back up, make them better then they were, make them believe in themselves, in their abilities, in their strengths, in their inner discipline. In who they are as persons, show them that they're capable of more than they thought possible. Same with martial arts.

 

In as a matter of fact ~ Wolfe ~ that might be an excellent idea! Enroll her in a marital arts class! And, then pursue taking ballroom dancing with her! Jezzz! Sometimes I amaze myself! The MA class will do wonders for her self esteem. Its a good work out for the bod as well, and something the two of you can do together (I know ~ but anyway), and something you can involve the kids in, and that they could use!

[PWSX3]

WOW!!!!!

It's good to hear at least she is going to give it a try and like the others have said it's going to really be hard for her so you will know pretty quick I would think if she is serious about it.

I would also like to know what the 6 books you had laid out for her to read, just wondering if any of them are the ones I'm going to tackle in the next few months. (I don't read all that fast)

 

I wish you the best, it's good to hear there is hope.

[Gunny376]

I don't know if you should get all so excited PWSX3?

 

Wolfe and I are Marines. He's active duty, and I'm retired Gunny Sergeant. That's part of our problem? Guys like us are happy with sleeping in a hollow log, drinking muddy water, and eating road kill. That's not to say we make a habit of it, we don't! He and I could do the Rambo thing if we had to. We've been trained to do so.

 

The last hurricane I went thorugh, I went out and slept in my car under the car port. Turned on the car and listend to Bruce Springentein! Slept like an Angle! My last LTGF was like "OMG!" Whatever!

[Wolfp]

Greets gang,

 

Been a while since I last posted. Between the new job, taking care of the wife, and the kids, life has been hopping...which is exactly how I like it. The missus is still following her treatment plan and is 110% better. The only new twist is nailing down the lights she claims she is seeing at odd intervals. Hopefully the neurologist can tell us something on Monday. DS and DD are doing fine as well. In answer to your questions about which books....Diviorce Remedy, For Women Only, For Men Only. The Five Languages of Love, Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, and Gates of Fire (think it is a must read for any military spouse; had her read it a second time). We are stilll awaiting the beginning of counseling together with Chuck. As soon as we get the nod from the psych guys to begin we will. All seems on track. Hope all are doing well and thanks again for the support.

[ilmw]

Greets gang,

 

Been a while since I last posted. Between the new job, taking care of the wife, and the kids, life has been hopping...which is exactly how I like it. The missus is still following her treatment plan and is 110% better. The only new twist is nailing down the lights she claims she is seeing at odd intervals. Hopefully the neurologist can tell us something on Monday. DS and DD are doing fine as well. In answer to your questions about which books....Diviorce Remedy, For Women Only, For Men Only. The Five Languages of Love, Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, and Gates of Fire (think it is a must read for any military spouse; had her read it a second time). We are stilll awaiting the beginning of counseling together with Chuck. As soon as we get the nod from the psych guys to begin we will. All seems on track. Hope all are doing well and thanks again for the support.

 

Good to hear from you... sounds like things are good... awsome...

 

Best of luck with EVERY THING..

ilmw