Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Because I have ideas that men need to hear. Except that rationale, mature men wouldn't consider what you say for a second. Just like I don't believe the whole all men are bastards thing I have heard from some women. Although I guess if all me are bastards then all men are bitches. You see, I can see it both ways.
Craig Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Except that rationale, mature men wouldn't consider what you say for a second. Woggle, darlin_coco is right. You have some ideas about women that are way out there. You seem like a nice enough guy (not a 'nice guy' if you know what I mean) but you've had some extremely ugly experiences at the hands of humans that happened to be women. Not many women are like that, not many women are as you portray them--at least in my experience and so I would not read your book.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 Woggle, darlin_coco is right. You have some ideas about women that are way out there. You seem like a nice enough guy (not a 'nice guy' if you know what I mean) but you've had some extremely ugly experiences at the hands of humans that happened to be women. Not many women are like that, not many women are as you portray them--at least in my experience and so I would not read your book. You mentioned that you were in an abusive marriage so you have the right to feel this way as well so why not embrace your anger? The majority of women think you deserved to be abused.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Woggle, darlin_coco is right. You have some ideas about women that are way out there. You seem like a nice enough guy (not a 'nice guy' if you know what I mean) but you've had some extremely ugly experiences at the hands of humans that happened to be women. Not many women are like that, not many women are as you portray them--at least in my experience and so I would not read your book. Well trying to convince Woggle to consider even for a second that his views are flawed is like bashing your head against a brick wall. Or at least that's what I feel like doing now
Outcast Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 The majority of women think you deserved to be abused. Woggle, stop it. STOP SPEAKING FOR WOMEN. How dare you? You are dead wrong. Could not be wronger. Go to your favourite thesaurus and look up 'wrong' and you're every possibly synonym of it.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 You mentioned that you were in an abusive marriage so you have the right to feel this way as well so why not embrace your anger? The majority of women think you deserved to be abused. *Bashes head against wall*. The majority of women do not feel this way as we are more compassionate then that, as most men are when they hear that a man abuses his wife. My boyfriends father was stabbed by his ex-wife in the groin. He then punched her for quite obvious reasons. Any woman who hears that would like to have an hour or so with his ex-wife to teach her how to treat another human being. Your view is so flawed it isn't even funny.
Rosalind Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 The majority of women think you deserved to be abused. Woggle!!! what a crappy thing to say
The slayer Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 You mentioned that you were in an abusive marriage so you have the right to feel this way as well so why not embrace your anger? The majority of women think you deserved to be abused. Now that really is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. If that is really your view then you have a lot in common wih the author of the scum manifesto, you would in fact even support her point of view, she was sexually abused by her father, beaten by her grandfather and ripped off by men generally, in your world that gives her the right to embrace her anger and declare her hatred of men, because the majority of men think she deserved to be abused....right?
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 Woggle!!! what a crappy thing to say The truth hurts doesn't it. Women love to see a man in pain.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Now that really is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. If that is really your view then you have a lot in common wih the author of the scum manifesto, you would in fact even support her point of view, she was sexually abused by her father, beaten by her grandfather and ripped off by men generally, in your world that gives her the right to embrace her anger and declare her hatred of men, because the majority of men think she deserved to be abused....right? So what do you have to say about this quote then? I would really like to know your answer.
Craig Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Originally Posted by Craig Woggle, darlin_coco is right. You have some ideas about women that are way out there. You seem like a nice enough guy (not a 'nice guy' if you know what I mean) but you've had some extremely ugly experiences at the hands of humans that happened to be women. Not many women are like that, not many women are as you portray them--at least in my experience and so I would not read your book. You mentioned that you were in an abusive marriage so you have the right to feel this way as well so why not embrace your anger? The majority of women think you deserved to be abused. Anger doesn't serve me, it doesn't do me any good. I am relieved that I am mostly out of that situation but also glad for the experience because it helped me learn things about myself and people that I might not have learned. I think the experience has helped me to partially assist (with others help) other women and men in abusive relationships, to speak up when I see another human being violated, etc. and that is a good thing. Sure, I was angry before about this but now the whole experience hardly elicits any reaction except gratitude for not being in it and thankfulness that I am no longer in it. I don't believe that the majority of women think that I deserved to be abused (care to cite your sources ) For those who think I deserved to be abused, I don't care. I wouldn't want to know them and wouldn't have them in my life anyway. Heck, my advocate was a woman, my counsellors were all women, they helped me tremendously, they cared and some got tears in their eyes when I told my story. These women were/are on my side.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 Believe me when I say there not on your side. You said you were in a shelter so most likely they were feminists and feminists view your abuse as just payback for what abused women go through.
Rosalind Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Believe me when I say there not on your side. You said you were in a shelter so most likely they were feminists and feminists view your abuse as just payback for what abused women go through. bullsh*t........
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Now that really is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard. If that is really your view then you have a lot in common wih the author of the scum manifesto, you would in fact even support her point of view, she was sexually abused by her father, beaten by her grandfather and ripped off by men generally, in your world that gives her the right to embrace her anger and declare her hatred of men, because the majority of men think she deserved to be abused....right? Well? You still haven't said anything about this? Do you think this is the same? What is your opinion on something which goes deeper then " most women hate men and want them to be abused"?
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 Maybe Valerie Solanas did have the right to hate men but she did not have the right to shoot Andy Warhol(no man would have the right to shoot a woman either). I am just rooting for my team.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Believe me when I say there not on your side. You said you were in a shelter so most likely they were feminists and feminists view your abuse as just payback for what abused women go through. Again with the feminists Woggle? Working in a shelter does not make you in a feminist. It makes you a compassionate human being. What about the men who work there? Are they feminists too? I guess judging by the fact that you said, word for word, you were in a shelter so most likely they were feminists. You are really looking quite ridiculous now honey. Give it up. Noone will agree with you.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 My mother was actually kicked out working for a shelter for telling some of the woman to beat their sons as a release for anger.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I am just rooting for my team. Well then I guess that the majority of women who take the view of men are bastards and should be treated like crap are just rooting for their team? You seem to think you have the right to, so it would be double standards to say that women cannot do the same thing. So I guess that noone is right or wrong Trying to use logic to a brick wall is giving me a headache.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 My mother was actually kicked out working for a shelter for telling some of the woman to beat their sons as a release for anger. That is because your mother is a psycho bitch from all accounts, and not as a result of her sex. My grandfather killed my grandmother because he kicked, punched and raped her the whole time they were married. He then kicked her in the head and she died. Whilst I was sitting there watching at 3 years old mind you. This doesn't make me think that all men are bastards as they cannot be held accountable for the actions of one person. That makes me think that this man was an evil *********, nothing more.
Craig Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Believe me when I say there not on your side. You said you were in a shelter so most likely they were feminists and feminists view your abuse as just payback for what abused women go through. I don't believe you and I never said I was in a shelter. Funny thing though, when I started going for counciling I was the only male survivor/victim of DV that center had. I had the feeling as I walked into the center that many of the women viewed me as a potential abuser. Soon enough the center started a support group for male survivors/victims of DV--it was their first and more than one woman counsellor or advocate told me that they started it because of things I said. The group grew in size, mostly with men who's SO's were arrested for DV. Then one day one guy didn't show for group and we found out later that he got stabbed by his SO and could have easily died. After that there was a distinct change in the attitude I percieved at the DV center. It was like it suddenly became real to the women that worked there that a big strong man could be nearly killed by his SO and mother of their child. Now, it is generally accepted there that men are survivor/victims and the compassion, understanding and acceptance is obvious at the DV center and they've even changed their paperwork to reflect that. You have to understand that for decades the staff worked with women that suffered at the hands of men and so even their professional minds were somewhat skewed by tunnel vision. They aren't bad people, just human.
Toni_no12002 Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Im a woman and i sure as hell dont hate all men.I hate a few men but thats because of the person not because they are a man.I hate some women too but thats because of who they are as a person.Well i wouldnt say i hate them i just dont like them.Infact most of my friends are men.You cant say all women are scum because you dont know everywoman. There are some male rapists out there does that mean your automatically going to think all men are rapists??no !so dont judge women like that We are all so different no one is exactly the same.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 That is because your mother is a psycho bitch from all accounts, and not as a result of her sex. My grandfather killed my grandmother because he kicked, punched and raped her the whole time they were married. He then kicked her in the head and she died. Whilst I was sitting there watching at 3 years old mind you. This doesn't make me think that all men are bastards as they cannot be held accountable for the actions of one person. That makes me think that this man was an evil *********, nothing more. I commend you for not letting hate consume you and I do mean that. I used to sit there and listen to my mother and her group the worst bile ever about men until I was 17 when I finally ran away from home. I was also beat and screamed at over nothing almost daily. Since I was about 13 I used to not come home for days and stay out all night getting drunk and high but she did not seem to care one bit. She almost seemed to wish I was killed. Do you honestly expect this not to have any effect on me? My ex was horrible in her own right as well. Everybody here knows she almost killed me but I remember sitting there in court with her painting me as an abuser and rapist when none of it was true. The woman I am with now is the first woman in my life that truly seems to care about me and treat me well. My ex is in prison right now for shooting at me and she has stood by me through this whole ordeal. It is hard not to feel she is above most other women.
Toni_no12002 Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 ive been through hell and back with some men.I used to hate men think that it was all there fault but i realised that it was only a few men and there are thousands out there.They are all completley diffenent.It would be wrong of me to say i hate all men because some women have been awful to me to.It just some people are vicious and nasty.In fact i pityu those people because they are happy making others miserable.It makes them feel big.They will never have a totally happy life.Let them get on with it. Your ex sounds a nasty piece of work.But dont let what her and your mum did make you judge women in general.Its only 2 women out of thousands!
Guest Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 The woman I am with now is the first woman in my life that truly seems to care about me and treat me well. My ex is in prison right now for shooting at me and she has stood by me through this whole ordeal. It is hard not to feel she is above most other women. You need to be in therapy. For a long time.
lindya Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I understand where you're coming from regarding women. It's fear and anger that drives you most of the time. You want people to agree that your problems ARE caused by women. They aren't. They are caused by problems completely internal to you: your own fear and anger that you never address. We're all in the sea of trash. The trash that you refer to is damaged in much the same way that you are. The damage is what makes it trash. To some extent, you can't call it trash without calling yourself trash. You'd be doing yourself a favor to be more understanding and forgiving. I couldn't agree more, and that was beautifully articulated. Woggle... you said: I was also beat and screamed at over nothing almost daily. Since I was about 13 I used to not come home for days and stay out all night getting drunk and high but she did not seem to care one bit. She almost seemed to wish I was killed. Do you honestly expect this not to have any effect on me? Of course that's going to have an effect. You're more or less admitting that events in your childhood have damaged you. Left you with skewed perceptions about other people...especially women. The trouble is that you don't seem to want to let go of any of that damage. As Johan said, if you view other damaged people as trash, then deep down you must see yourself as trash. Take all the trash away, and who would you be? Who was your ex? My ex....I remember sitting there in court with her painting me as an abuser and rapist when none of it was true. What went wrong? Something good about her must have initially drawn you to your ex...yet from the way you talk about her she's hell on legs, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. This woman who you once valued enough to marry. Was she a devious individual who initially managed to conceal her true self from you? Did you deliberately pick someone who would confirm your negative perception of women? Who do we attribute the blame to, in the sorry state of affairs that was your first marriage? Or do we just agree that two badly damaged people found one another (and damage frequently finds itself very attractive)...and inevitably it all went horribly wrong. The woman I am with now is the first woman in my life that truly seems to care about me and treat me well. Yet she encourages you to remain stuck in a pit of twisted logic and bitterness that - several months ago - you seemed to be trying to pull yourself out of. Don't you understand the concept of tough love? Possibly not, as you never had that parent who was capable of providing the gentle aspects of love, but could also lay down firm boundaries when necessary. Not suggesting your girlfriend should start trying to discipline you, but most healthy relationships do contain some elements of the tougher nurturing approach (challenging your partner, letting them know when they're veering into Idiotsville) on both sides. Unfortunately, you were parented in such a hopeless and abusive manner, and have evidently made little or no progress in getting over it, that it would take a pioneering genius in emotional intelligence to have anything approximating a healthy relationship with you. You need counselling, Woggle. Marriage isn't going to fix what went wrong in your childhood. It can't turn a needy, angry, isolated little boy into a man - especially not if you're getting married to someone who insists on colluding with all your prejudices and warped perceptions. It would help you to spend a lot of time with a cognitive therapist (and I'm talking about you having a session a week over a period of several months) reviewing what went on in your childhood, identifying the faulty belief systems you developed as a result of the abuse - and learning how to break free of those damaging beliefs you're presently so set on holding onto.
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