a4a Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Here's something else you'll learn in psych, Hyakku. It was announced as part of the results of a recent study. No surprise to anyone who has dealt with a lot of humans over time: some (actually a lot, I seem to recall) of people will believe what they want to believe based on feelings, not on facts. You can try to point out supporting facts until your head explodes (I certainly have) to those kinds of people to no avail. And it's really, really common. Until the study results came out, I had no idea. One of my bigger disappointments in life was realizing that with a lot of people logic does not prevail and cannot persuade many people. It can some, obviously, but apparently they're the minority. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here but you'll definitely encounter it over time. I have the information about the study someplace and if my headache goes away, I'll try to hunt it up for you. Anyway. The network now returns you to the show already in progress... Fascinating.........
a4a Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 I got the notion she was full of herself too, but not because of the almight dollar. It was the idea that she really believes she's this paragon of womanhood; this bright, shining star of femininity in a sea of skanks. Perhaps that is why she is so interested in marriage with a younger man? Does the plot thicken??????..........hummmm......... News Flash: I too do not approve of many actions of women. Nor do I approve of many actions of men. I guess I am a feminist.... wait tho....... I don't hate men, I like many men. I prefer the friendship of men......but I am a feminist...... oh gawd I am so screwed up! :lmao:
lindya Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 your fiance is a feminist, but like many women today, doesn't want to call herself that or think of herself that way because feminist has become code for man-bashing b*tches. I doubt that feminism has ever, in the history of the world, been viewed as anything else. Ever since I can remember, men of my dad's era talked disparagingly about "women's libbers". I actually believe that feminism probably gets a better press now than it seems to have got back in the seventies...but I live in the UK, and perhaps there are some cultural differences. Being afraid of the feminist label for fear of negative connotations seems a bit pointless...particularly as those who view women as man-bashing bitches are going to do so regardless of what we call ourselves. That aside, I don't see how Woggle's girlfriend can possibly be a feminist in the best sense of the word. Not when she encourages Woggle to deride other women. Not when she's ashamed of being a woman...as evidenced by her dislike of other women. Surely feminism involves taking pride in who and what you are? Being sufficiently confident in your beliefs, tastes and intellectual ability that whilst you enjoy being stimulated by a partner's differing interests, you'll resist any attempts to "re-educate" you or mould you into something that's far removed from the real you? If the Woggle's fiance really is this narrow minded biddy who hates other women, then God help him - because sooner or later that hateful nature will turn on him. A feminist would challenge Woggle for these very damaging core beliefs he has. For both their sakes. Instead, Woggle's girlfriend chooses to indulge and encourage them. It's like hearing about a 300 lb man whose wife insists on feeding him high fat meals at every sitting. I absolutely agree with everyone who has commented on the wisdom of Woggle marrying someone who functions like that. It's going to be great for a while (as it always is when two issue-laden people experience the relief of finding eachother)...but once the romance fades out of it, they'll stop projecting their issues onto the outside world and they'll start projecting them onto eachother. With typical failure to take any responsibility for his problems, Woggle will come here and rant about being cunningly deceived by the psychoburger from hell who paraded as filet mignon. And she'll probably be here too....snuffling about for sympathy from the feminists she so detests.
Sand&Water Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 A woman like her is a rare gem in a pile of trash. It's like tasting filet mignon and then looking at Mcdonalds. The funny thing is that my fiance agrees with me. What would you consider the reference point? If she's like filet mignon compared to Mcdonalds, does that make you deserving of her? It all goes back to your roots. The way you are composed as a person, a man - your likes, dislikes, beliefs, values, etc. You can't change your/her roots. So you are either on the same level as her, or one notch below. As long as you misjudge and underestimate yourself, and the relationship (with her) you will always be a miserable man.
alphamale Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 What would you consider the reference point?. here's another reference point S&W....she's 15 yrs older than him.
lindya Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 here's another reference point S&W....she's 15 yrs older than him. ...and something about Woggle's posts suggests he's pretty transparent and probably very easy to manipulate. Just say what he wants to hear, make impressed faces in response to his ramblings about the state of the world, nod solemnly when he talks about being a genius who always speaks the truth, mop his brow whilst agreeing that his mother/ex-wife/evil female colleague is responsible for everything that's ever gone wrong in his life.... Keeping a straight face in trying circumstances is a skill that's acquired with age. He'd be putty in the hands of a sophisticated older woman. Sorry Woggle - but it's for your own good.
alphamale Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 He'd be putty in the hands of a sophisticated older woman. I've been trying to tell him that for ages LINDYA...but he won't listen Mentally and emotionally, she'll run circles around him...
Outcast Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 lindya, it sounds scarily as though you're experienced in the art
lindya Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 lindya, it sounds scarily as though you're experienced in the art I did go out with a younger guy for a while. I wasn't consciously aware of wanting to manipulate him, but in retrospect I'm pretty sure that manipulation is exactly what I was doing. What I told myself then was that he suffered from low self esteem that was hidden behind an arrogant mask (probably very true, actually). I felt it was my girlfriendly duty to support all kinds of hair brained theories and schemes. Boost him up. Avoid challenging the nonsensical and self-deluding cack that came out of his mouth. I didn't want to draw attention to the age gap (nothing like Woggle & fiance's age gap, but a gap nonetheless) by sounding like the patronising "seen it all before" older girlfriend. So instead, I was that indulgent "wife" metaphorically feeding a fat man more pie. Not a situation that, in the long term, did either of us much good. To any women he should get entangled with in the future, I hereby offer my unreserved apologies.
Outcast Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Oh it is WAY too much work to keep a fragile ego afloat by blowing air up its - um - hindmost orifice.
johan Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Woggle, I see a couple problems here. ...I see how much 90% of the female population pales in comparison to her. 1) You're idealizing your fiance. You should be more realistic both about her strengths and her weaknesses. You also need to face the fact that she could both disappoint you and hurt you. She's human, and this is a fact of life. It's nothing to do with women. The fact is you could also hurt her. A woman like her is a rare gem in a pile of trash... 2) It takes a hell of an ego to make a statement like this. I understand where you're coming from regarding women. It's fear and anger that drives you most of the time. You want people to agree that your problems ARE caused by women. They aren't. They are caused by problems completely internal to you: your own fear and anger that you never address. We're all in the sea of trash. The trash that you refer to is damaged in much the same way that you are. The damage is what makes it trash. To some extent, you can't call it trash without calling yourself trash. You'd be doing yourself a favor to be more understanding and forgiving.
burning 4 revenge Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I don't know WOGGLE...sometimes a Big Mac with fries sounds pretty damn good! i was trying to decide what to eat and you made up my mind really, seriously, i prefer a big mac and fries to filet mingon
RecordProducer Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Wog, you're feeding her ego with compliments about how she is - not the best - but the only good woman in the whole wide world. Naturally, she agrees! But that's neither good or bad. You enjoy each other's company and I wish you happiness forever. Obviously nothing can change your feelings toward the female population in general, but I am glad that you were emotionally healthy enough to fall in love. The fact that she is much older than you speaks of your tendency to seek a mother figure in a woman. I hope your relationship lasts longer than the LS-ers' prognosis.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 I got the notion she was full of herself too, but not because of the almight dollar. It was the idea that she really believes she's this paragon of womanhood; this bright, shining star of femininity in a sea of skanks. The women on here haven't even met her and they already don't like her. Intelligent and truly independent minded women who refuse to be brainwashed by feminism are looked at with scorn by many women. They refuse to join the cult and that is a threat.
clandestinidad Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I'm not sure if I'd call her a feminist based on what he's said, b/c in my view one of the feminist 'goals' is for women to rise up in society by sticking together as a strong group of strong women, in order to get equal clout, equal pay, etc etc.....the main point being that they STICK TOGETHER and SUPPORT EACH OTHER because a combined front makes more headway. Woggle's fiance has no desire to fight for the rights of women, b/c she apparently doesnt even like being a 'woman'. Her desire is to be more 'masculine', because she seemingly has decided that women are less than men in numerous ways.....so she doesnt even want to be part of the female gender which both Woggle and she have stereotyped to the infinite degree. I think this could explain her ego, condescending attitude towards most women other than herself, etc.......they're below her b/c they act like 'women' This might just be a good match for Woggle....since the extent of damage from his radical mother and her group has skewed his view of females so much, and now he's with someone that doesnt even want to be female.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 She loves being a woman but she is just disgusted by how many women act. It's not that she is against women because she has female friends and is very close with her mother. She saw a few of her male friends go through nasty divorces and it gave her some sympathy for the male perspective in our society.
clandestinidad Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Yeah...I should have worded that differently.... I didnt mean that anatomically she doesnt want to be a women. I'm sure she likes who she is, and her body, and what-not. I meant that it kinda seems like she doesnt like being classified as a 'woman'....in the way's that most people classify/stereotype females (as needy, dependent, emotional, irrational, etc....) And it seems like she views herself as 'above' other women b/c she isnt a 'stereotypical woman'---which the both of you have such strong disdain for. That would explain why you both view her as the ONLY wonderful woman among 'trash', and everything else you've written about her in other posts. I dont think I can explain what I mean....maybe that was good enough, but I'm tired and unable to really think right now. Anyway, I obviously dont personally know her, so I couldnt possibly know for sure....I'm just going off of everything you've written about her so far.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 I don't think she is the only wonderful woman in the world. I have a close friend at work who is a woman and sometimes my fiance and I hang out with her and her husband. I don't even think women are evil by nature but feminism has taight them to view all men as the enemy so they treat men as bad before they even get to know us.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I don't think she is the only wonderful woman in the world. I have a close friend at work who is a woman and sometimes my fiance and I hang out with her and her husband. I don't even think women are evil by nature but feminism has taight them to view all men as the enemy so they treat men as bad before they even get to know us. I have never really been one with the whole feminism thing. I prefer to live my life as it is presented and I live with it, not make fruitless attempts to make it better. However my dearest Woggle, you have just contradicted yourself. You have pretty much made it clear that you hate women right? Because of your mother etc etc. You have just stated that feminism has taught women to hate all men. It would appear that your experiences with a handful of women have made you hate all women, feminists included. Before you get to know them. Then you met someone who can agree with your views. Fair enough, I hope you are happy together. But saying that 90% of women are dog**** beneath your feet because they aren't you idea of a perfect woman (in other words you but with a uterus) is crazy. I don't think that you have grasped the fact that all humans have flaws. I am disgusted by the way which alot of people treat others. That doesn't mean that all Humans are bad. That just means that there are those who murder, cheat, steal etc and those who do good. Unfortunately, in today's society, most are more likely to do worse rather then better. Just because some women cheat on their hubands doesn't mean that all women do. Just because some women instigate a nasty divorce battle for children, money etc doesn't mean that all women do. Just because some women are crazy bitches who stab their husbands in the dick and then complain because he then promptly punched her doesnt mean all women do. (Yes I do know someone who that happened to) etc etc... Just because some men are lazy slobs who think women should stay at home and provide a wet hole to **** doesn't mean that all men are like that. Just because some men cheat on their wives doesn't mean that all men do. You catch my drift. Whenever I read our threads Woggle they all turn into an anti-feminism rant and eventuate in you realising your fiance is the perfect woman for you. You need to realise that men and women are equal. We all do bad things to each other, man or woman. You cannot hate women for the things they do when men do things which are equally as bad. The world doesn't work like that. You say you have high morals. Then you should be able to grasp it but you dont. You need to see a therapist about getting over your mistreatment by your mother because you should be able to live life and not bother with hating a group of people whom you dont know and yet despise so much. I say this all to help you, not to make fun of you Woggle. Please get some help.
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 I never said that I hate all women. I know there are some great women but I also know the society we live in. I am not blind to how most women feel about men and how most women have an axe to grind with all men. You better believe I will protect myself.
Citizen Erased Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I never said that I hate all women. I know there are some great women but I also know the society we live in. I am not blind to how most women feel about men and how most women have an axe to grind with all men. You better believe I will protect myself. I am sorry. You hate 90% of all women. That is just the thing. You should also be able to see that most women are great and only some of them are waiting with those axes. There are men who think that women have no value whatsoever in this world and proceed to beat the daylights out of them to teach them how worthless they are. Some men just pretend they love someone and cheat on them with their friends. Some men are *********s and some women are b!tches, but you need to realise that both sexes are just as bad as the other. Most women do not have an "axe to grind". A select few out of the billions do. If you can learn to accept that then you can start to get over whatever it is that has made you so bitter.
burning 4 revenge Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 is this going to be the unique philosophy underpinning your 21st century survival guide?
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 is this going to be the unique philosophy underpinning your 21st century survival guide? It will be part of it. There will be a chapter on feminism.
Craig Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 It will be part of it. There will be a chapter on feminism. Why are you talking about writing a book? Is this therapy for you? Will you back up your words with any research or will everything be pulled from your own experiences?
Author Woggle Posted July 18, 2006 Author Posted July 18, 2006 Why are you talking about writing a book? Is this therapy for you? Will you back up your words with any research or will everything be pulled from your own experiences? Because I have ideas that men need to hear.
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