I hate porn :(

[norajane]

Drydania, all men masturbate, whether they are married or not. Porn is one way for them to get excited to masturbate, just as you might read erotic stories or fantasize while you masturbate. It has nothing to do with whether he finds you attractive or not.

 

You've said you're upset because he lied to you about the porn. Considering that you are also lying to him by poking into your computer records to figure out what sites he's accessing, you yourself are guilty of betrayal, deception, and sneaking around. You've installed a keylogger to catch him - more lies and deception. And you don't think there's anything wrong with your deception, yet you are violating his trust every day.

 

I'd suggest you get to the bottom of what your problem is with his masturbation habits. Just because your mother was hurt by your father's looking at porn doesn't mean you have to take that view. If you and your husband have a wonderful relationship otherwise, maybe you don't have to make him feel like a leper for using porn to masturbate, and maybe you don't have to sneak around the computer trying to catch him in a lie.

 

Perhaps you can accept his need to masturbate using visual images and even make it a part of your sex life together. Use it as an enriching experience to understand what his turn ons are. Why not take a more positive approach? Maybe if he feels he doesn't have to hide it from you, it'll lose some of its 'forbidden' appeal.

 

Another option is to take pictures of yourselves while you have sex. Then he'll have your own personal porn to masturbate to.

[Pink_Tulip]

Trimmer- sorry, I thought I answered your question first time around, guess I missed a bit.

 

I have no problem with my H masturbaring at all. And if some actress happens into his brain while that is going on, fine. I am guilty of the same.

 

The issue I have is him actively going out and looking for something to fantasize about, other than us. I know people are probably going to call me old fashioned or other names, I really don't care. I don't like the culture we have created where it is ok to have multiple partners, where women go around dressed like whores b/c it is more important to be recognized sexually than for your brains, etc. To me, sex is a sacred thing, and especially within a marriage, it is meant to bond two people in a way they can't be bonded to anyone else. To go out specifically looking to be sexually satisfied by another women (online, movies) etc, to me, and many other women, is a form of infidelity.

 

I know plenty of men who feel the same. If you or anyone else doesn't, that is totally fine. I am not trying to tell anyone how THEY should view sex. But for myself and others like me, it is important to find men who share our morals and values. Which is why we state up front how we feel. As I stated earlier, I am no prude, my husband has many 'playboy' magazines, all starring me. I assume the OP feels as I do, which is why she explicitly stated her beliefs upfront. To me, it is like meeting someone and saying that you practice this particular religion, and that you can only date/marry someone in the same religion, have that person go to church with you, etc. only to find out they are an atheist who lied b/c they didn't want to break up.

 

Does that help clarify my position? Feelings about porn can run that deep for some. The issues here shouldn't be- women need to get over the porn thing, it should be, everyone needs to be honest FROM THE BEGINNING about their opinions on the matter, so stuff like this doesn't happen.

[portableversion]

I don't care if my H wanks off.

 

I have made it clear to him that i despise porn and that i WILL NOT tolerate it in my house. I despise the filthy images, the degradation, the unrealistic expectations it creates, the FACT that MANY of the women in it are screwed up, and in my opinion, porn consumption only leads to dissatisfaction in the relationship. Overuse literally fries the mans sex drive so much, that he can porn himself LIMP.

 

OP,

 

This is YOUR relationship, and you have set boundaries that he violated. Stand your ground.

 

Instead of listening to the pro-porn posse here, do some independent research on this issue. I suggest you read 'the center fold syndrome'. Good book.

[Trimmer]

Pink_Tulip - I hear and understand, and I wouldn't call you any names... Thanks for the discussion.

 

The issues here shouldn't be- women need to get over the porn thing, it should be, everyone needs to be honest FROM THE BEGINNING about their opinions on the matter, so stuff like this doesn't happen

 

I continue to agree with you completely on this.

 

And I admit, I'm sure I'm a little oversensitive about the "calling it infidelity" thing, as having been through the full on "Mr Toad's wild infidelity ride" (got my ticket punched twice, then thrown out of the theme park...), I would love for something like this to have been the biggest sticking point in our relationship. Again, not to minimize the OP's sense of betrayal at the lies and hiding, or her strong feelings about the subject in general, but the general 'porn as a kind of sort of type of infidelity' idea seems so much more solvable than than the sweaty sheets, smeared lipstick, etc. kind... I am sure it doesn't feel that simple to the OP, though.

 

- T

[Pink_Tulip]

T- I see where you are coming from as well, and where you might see this as trivial. However, as much as men are physical, women are emotional. To women who hate porn, it is very painful to feel your husband needs these other 'women' in his life.

 

As far as it being solvable, I also agree with you. I know many men who would prefer photos/videos of their wife over porn. I think that is a great compromise for both parties.

 

But again, there will always be the men who want their porn, regardless of how many pics their SO's provide. That is why, as we both agree, this discussion really needs to happen early on.

[portableversion]

Loveshack is replete with stories about husbands who share their nudie photos of wifey on the internet.

 

Lesson: if you don't anyone to see naked photos of you...then don't let anyone take naked photos of you!

 

IMO, the 'lets make porn together' solution is ridiculous.

[Pink_Tulip]

lol PV, you are gonna drag this thread into a completely different direction!

 

With us, we have a digital camera and a photo printer. Take some shots, print them out, DELETE them from the camera, make happy husbands scrapbook.

 

My only rule: my face is never in any naked shot or video, end of discussion. H is ok with this, as its not my face he is interested in at those special times. I trust my H 100%. I know the type of man he is, and I know he would never do any of that online sharing. BUT, I have also read the stories, so just in case he goes totally insane one day and does post them, I won't be recognized. It's all about compromise.

[Bob Dole]

To the original poster:

 

As you can see, there are plenty of varying opinions on the morality, usefulness, risks, and benefits of pornography. I respect all other opinions; after all, I once shared some of them.

 

In my humble opinion, at least as it relates to my own life, pornography is not something that grown,mature men - real men - want to do. I believe it is fundamentally a maturity issue, in fact. Real men, strangely enough, prefer real women; even stranger, real men not only prefer real women to pixels on a screen and a bottle of baby oil in a lonely room ... they also prefer THEIR woman.

 

You seem to have your own moral views; obviously some disagree. I don't look at it through a moral perspective - just through the prism of maturity.

 

And experience. I was heavily involved in pornography for a lot of years. I finally had to decide to change that. Not because it was immoral, but because it was doing damage to me. And to my lady love, even if she didn't know the cause. To my relationship. To my life.

 

It needed to go. So did my immaturity. I'm still nowhere close to where I want to be, but I found that losing the pornography sure made life better, sure made me closer to the man I wanted to be.

 

And a word to your husband: whether you believe in addiction or compulsion or whatever, trust me - porn can be habit forming. And it is pathetic. I know some want to defend it, and I'm happy to let them. Because there's no point in arguing with someone who has to defend sitting by yourself staring at a computer screen pounding your pud all day.

 

It can be dangerous. It can be habit forming. And it's not a good habit, certainly not for a man who wants to stay married.

 

And that's all assuming you were actually OKAY with pornography. You're not. Your man has to wise up, grow up, and love you. Ask him who his heroes are. Now ask him if he can picture his heroes spanking the stallion to http://www.dumbsmut.com. (And no, you pervy mcpervypants ... thats not a real website. At least I hope not. )

 

For you, though, the bottom line isn't morality - and it isn't even whether you're right or wrong about pornography.

 

The bottom line is that you TOLD HIM ahead of time. You laid out a clear groundrule for your marriage - and he accepted it.

 

That is all that really matters. The porn, the damage it could do to him and to you, are both almost secondary. What matters is that he agreed to a rule, and then broke it over and over with impugnity.

 

For the record, real men don't do that, either. Certainly not to someone they love.

 

Tell him I said so. God bless.

[Lennox]

Trimmer, any replacement of a sexual act with me, whether it be to some porn star, mainstream celebrity, or the girl next door is cheating. It's cheating me of a great banging session with my husband who expended his energy elsewhere. It's cheating me of the respect that I deserve that I won't allow porn in my home, and a violation of boundaries that I have established.

 

I was not against porn at the time we were married. That's because I had never been married to a porn addict. All the relationships that I had had previously were with guys like Bob Dole here who enjoyed it from time to time, but had the strength of a good character to give it up once it threatened their relationship, if it ever got to that point. Men that I were with knew full well that I could enjoy having sex everyday and that's actually my preference. Porn use depletes the extra amount of energy I need in a man in order to satisfy me to the point that I need.

 

While my perspective on porn itself has changed, I think that the lies that come along with the addiction probably hurt the relationship even more.

 

On the issue of whether to provide the man with nude pics of herself, I would strongly advise against doing that. Why? Because a man that has a lack of honesty and good character is not someone to trust nude pics with. The only thing that it does is place a band-aid solution to a situation where stitches are necessary. He's going to keep the pics of his wife to placate her, but still wank to images of other women...because the porn addict always needs a stronger form of stimulus to achieve the same amount of satisfaction.

 

I wish the OP lots of luck in this situation. I wish people would quit trying to shift the blame on her just because she has enough backbone to voice her opposition to having this in her life. He knowingly broke her trust by lying to her throughout the relationship, and it's HIS responsibility to clean up his own messes.

[Drydania]

Lennox:

 

 

 

 

I'm curious: absent the porn, is "wanking" to a mental image of Charlize Theron, or Janeane Garofalo, or Terri Garr, or Kathy Bates, or the checker from the grocery store, or the security agent that frisked me at LAX last week infidelity?

 

I don't really consider that to be cheating. I know that he has probably fantisized about other women before. I just have a problem with going online in search of other women. I don't have any other problems in our relationship. I married him because with the exeption of a few flaws that I can live with he is the perfect man for me - minus the porn. Our sex life is great-acctually even better now that the porn is gone. I have made him a few videos but he said that he hasn't felt the need to use them just yet. He has been so wonderful the last week or so. We have been spending more time together and he has been showering me with affection. He truly seems very sorry and he is upset that he hurt me so badly. I really want for our marraige to work out. I love him more than anything. In responce to a few other postings... I have tried very hard to make all of his sexual fantisies come true. Anything that he would like to try we try. I don't have a problem with masterbation-hell I do it myself. Not nearly as often as he does but then men are typically more sexual creatures than women. I do not however think of other men. I know that that may seem strange but I find my satisfaction thinking of my husband. I have uninstalled the keylogger because I felt so horrible about having it on the computer. I really want to be able to trust him. Besides if he were to do it he would be smarter than that. We seem to be communicating better now. He is a very tough, strong type of guy that doesn't always share how he feels but lately he has really opened up to me more. I still hurt, feel betrayed etc. and I know that it will take time for that to go away but as much as I hate that this happened it seems to have in some way helped our relationship. I still am a little scared that he may have an addiction. He doesn't think that it is a problem however I know how addiction works. I have assured him that if it was a problem I would be there to help him through it. He says that he doesn't miss it or even think about porn anymore. He told me that if he felt that he had lost contol he would find me immediatly and get help. He really seems to want to work this out-as do I. He is 35 and has many long term relationships but has never been married. He told me that he knew when we started dating that I was the one for him. I don't think he wants to lose our relationship. I really feel that he is sorry. We are going to see a councelor next week. The fact that he sugessted this makes me feel like he really values our marriage and wants it to work. Don't get me wrong - he still has a lot of trust-earning to do and I am not backing down on my view of his use of pornography. I will not tolorate it. I feel like a deserve a husband that is truthful and respects me and my feelings. I would never do anything that i knew would hurt him. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if I did and I always take his oppinion into account when making decisions. I think that I deserve the same.

[drydania]

To me, sex is a sacred thing, and especially within a marriage, it is meant to bond two people in a way they can't be bonded to anyone else. To go out specifically looking to be sexually satisfied by another women (online, movies) etc, to me, and many other women, is a form of infidelity.

 

I agree whole-heartedly. That is exactly what I told my H. We have both had previous relationships that included sex but we agreed when we were married that this relationship was incredibly sacred-that the feeling we had for each other were much stronger than anything we had felt before. That we were to share in all parts of our life together - no secrets - no lies- only honesty and loyalty. That is what a marriage is suposed to be about. You are suposed to marry the man/woman you love and build a life together based on trust, honesty, loyalty and faith. Not that I am an overly religious person but you have to have faith in something, be it yourself, your spouse, you church ..whatever. I found alot of my faith and strength in my husband. I thought that he would be the on to try to protect me from pain- not cause it. We are doing better. I love him dearly. I want to be with him untill the day I die. I know alot of people don't see things the way I do and that is fine. Everyone has an oppinion but this is mine. I see marriage as a very special commitment between two people and I see sex as a very intimate and personal display of love. I'm sorry that many don't see my view on the "cheating" part of porn but my oppinion isn't going to change.

[Pink_Tulip]

Lennox- my husband has never been anywhere near a porn addict, which is why I am ok with the pics. If he were, you are 100% correct and I wouldn't ever consider it. My H is probably like most men, looking occasionally out of curiosity. He much prefers pics of me and no longer looks at porn, so it works for us. I'd never encourage anyone to do it unless they felt comfortable and safe doing so. A porn addict isn't safe. The OP is going to have to make that determination.

 

Bob- thanks for your input. It is so nice to see a man with this attitude. Men telling women that porn is our problem and something is wrong with us if we are bothered by it does get old. And quite honestly, amonst my friends, you would be in the majority, although you would never know it on these boards.

 

DD- From what you have said your H seems open to hearing your feelings about porn. That is a good step, and hopefully your marriage can come out stronger after having gone through this. And don't worry about what anyone thinks of your opinions. This is your marriage, you have to live it, just as they have to live theirs. Good luck and keep us updated!

[MistyGreen]

TRUST

 

This is what it all comes down to. She discussed with him what was and wasnt acceptable to her. What made her feel bad/uncomfortable etc and he agreed. She then felt that she had met a 'decent' man, one who respected her wishes and knew where she was coming from.

 

To then find out that he has been doing the very thing that was deemed 'unacceptable' by the BOTH of them (he agreed remember) is devastating. To her it would feel like a betrayal. She may even feel that the very fact he is doing this behind her back, knowing she could find out means that porn is more important than her or her feelings. I couldnt understand why he would continue to do it even when he knows the damage it will cause if he gets caught.

 

I understand about 'free will' and no one has the right to make you stop doing something you enjoy. But when this something starts to make the person you profess to love unhappy and insecure then surely you would stop. I myself would stop doing something if i knew it hurt my partner that much. It just isnt worth it, surely. His being happy is more important to me than that.

 

When i found out similar things about my SO it was the fact he had lied to me, in fact promised he he wouldnt do it again because it hurt me so much then carried on regardless that did the damage, not the actual porn.

I dont have as big a problem with porn as i did have, i started watching it with him and he agreed to do it together or not at all...he broke that promise too. It makes you feel that youre feelings are worthless. That this 'thing' is more important than your happiness and peace of mind.

Now he wonders why i have trust issues with him...no he hasnt actually 'cheated' on me...but he's shown me that he can lie, quite easily it seems about something that makes me unhappy. Thats the issue here i think...the fact that after everything he said to her...he lied and carried on anyway.

 

Misty

[Guest]

I am having the same problem with my husband. We have been married three years and we have a young daughter. We were having the same problem you are now. He told me he'd never do it again. I check the computer and I check his email. I feel awful for doing it, but after the lies, hurt and betrayal. I think we have a right to know if we are being lied to. My husband has now resorted to Maxim, FHM, and other magazines and catalogs with (almost) naked women flaunting themselves. He says it's not porn, so it's okay. It doesn't make me feel any better, it just makes me not like him even more and not want to have sex with him at all. Recently, I made the guest room up and that is his new home, we are starting counseling at our church. I don't know what to tell you sweetie but your not alone. I know how empty it makes you feel and how hurt you must be because I feel the same way. My question is: if they know it hurts us why do they keep doing it? Aren't we enough?

 

 

I have recently discovered that my new husband has been continually logging on to an adult site. He has had a membership for over 3 years (longer than we have been together). He has been paying $30.00 per month for this membership. He claims that when we were more sexually active that he didn't log on as much but lately I have found that he was logging on about once a day. We have been together for a little over 3 years. When we fist started dating we had a discussion on porn and I told him exactly how much I hated it. I feel that if you are in a relationship with someone getting off to other women is chesting in a sence. He told me that he wasn't a fan of porn and that he felt it was not needed. I have been extremely busy the last month or so and maybe I haven't always been there for him sexually but this has been going on for a very long time. When I saw the link on our computer and asked him about it he told me it wasn't his. I knew that he was lying. He finally admitted that he had been online but that it was only a handful of times because I wasn't home and that he wasn't a member. I had a gut feeling he was lying so I checked the cookies on the computer and there were so many video clips. I told him what I had found and he came clean about the membership but told me that he only got on once a week or so. I still felt he was lying so I checked the history and found that his site had been accessed almost every day for the lasy month. He does it while I am at school or at work. Once he did it while the kids and I were home sleeping. I caught him in the living room at about 3:30 in the morning watching a DVD one of his friends gave him. I feel so cheated and betrayed. I really love him and want to work through this but it hurts so bad. I don't feel like I am good enough of that I satisfy him like his porn does. He told me that he would never do it again and that he didn't realize how badly it would hurt me. He canceled his membership in front of me and told me that he didn't want to lose our family. Should I believe him? I feel kind of bad because I am checking the computer daily and have installed a hidden keylogger so that I can see what sites he visits. Am I a horrible person? I told him if he does it again I will leave. I asked him if he might have an addiction and he assured me that it wasn't a problem. However, a drug addict doesn't usually see that they have a problem. I told him that if it were a problem I would stand by him and help him if he would get counseling. Is there anything else I should do? How can I make the pain and the feelings of betrayal go away? HELP!!!!

[Lennox]

I am having the same problem with my husband. We have been married three years and we have a young daughter. We were having the same problem you are now. He told me he'd never do it again. I check the computer and I check his email. I feel awful for doing it, but after the lies, hurt and betrayal. I think we have a right to know if we are being lied to. My husband has now resorted to Maxim, FHM, and other magazines and catalogs with (almost) naked women flaunting themselves. He says it's not porn, so it's okay. It doesn't make me feel any better, it just makes me not like him even more and not want to have sex with him at all. Recently, I made the guest room up and that is his new home, we are starting counseling at our church. I don't know what to tell you sweetie but your not alone. I know how empty it makes you feel and how hurt you must be because I feel the same way. My question is: if they know it hurts us why do they keep doing it? Aren't we enough?

Guest: Your husband is justifying feeding his sex addiction with magazines that perhaps aren't considered porn by the mainstream, but your husband is using them just like he would use porn. And why feel awful for checking up on him when he's been the one that has betrayed you?

 

As for why they keep doing it even though it hurts you, it's because they're selfish and need a good conk on the head. You need to set firm boundaries and be ready to enforce them with strong penalties. Setting up the guest room is a good start and I applaud you for doing that. Refusing sex because his actions are squelching your sexual desires towards him is also good, in my opinion. His actions are causing your desire for him diminish. Why pretend you want to have sex with him when you don't? You are a person, not a sex toy.

[drydania]

I am having the same problem with my husband. We have been married three years and we have a young daughter. We were having the same problem you are now. He told me he'd never do it again. I check the computer and I check his email. I feel awful for doing it, but after the lies, hurt and betrayal. I think we have a right to know if we are being lied to. My husband has now resorted to Maxim, FHM, and other magazines and catalogs with (almost) naked women flaunting themselves. He says it's not porn, so it's okay. It doesn't make me feel any better, it just makes me not like him even more and not want to have sex with him at all. Recently, I made the guest room up and that is his new home, we are starting counseling at our church. I don't know what to tell you sweetie but your not alone. I know how empty it makes you feel and how hurt you must be because I feel the same way. My question is: if they know it hurts us why do they keep doing it? Aren't we enough?

 

I feel the same way. What is wrong with being satisfied by one woman? Why do men need pictures of airbrushed women to find satisfaction. I hate the way this feels. I am still checking our computer etc. too-I feel bad about it but I refuse to live like this. Keep your chin up-just remember that you deserve better. Using Maxim etc. is no different-it is still getting off to other women. I know that many people don't see porn as cheating or understand that it is harmful but I totally understand how you feel and wish you the best of luck.

[Love Hurts]

You are right on all counts. He is cheating. The love admiration, affection the sexual build up that should be saved for making love with you. Is spent elsewhere.

 

He is addicted to it.. porn is something we can see once and we never forget it.. We can recall it at any given moment. When he is with you, I dread the thought that mentally he with one of his porn queens and using your body. That is so cheap and ugly. Not fair to you.

 

How can the average woman measure up to some of the silicone babes in porn.........? It's not fair to you in any respect. That is not respect for your feelings, your body, your love making (which isn't love for him its ugly).

He needs help. My girlfriends husband got so addicted to porn he had to have a centerfold photo lying on the bed next to her head so he could orgasm. Sometimes he would break to turn the pages of the porn magazine and then get busy again.

Needless to say she had no respect for a man that used her body.

 

They are divorced. Some men can be helped and some never get over the addiction. He needs God to intercede in his life, prayer and God.

 

A conviction that what he is doing is wrong, it is cheating and it is not fair to a woman waiting in the wings for true love.

 

You have every right to walk away from a cheating husband. It's your call.

 

God Bless and good luck.

[Mae]

I am sorry but I feel like it is infidelity in a way. My husband getting off to other women is still a form of cheating to me. I give him everything he has asked for sexually and he still feels a need for porn. I feel cheated on and this is bigger than an anthill to me because of the lies and the frequency of it. I was up front and honest about how I felt about porn from the start and he broke an agreement that we had-that is a very big deal to me. I know that some people don't see porn as a big deal but I grew up in a house where my father did the whole porn thing. I saw how badly it hurt my mother and I never wanted to feel like she did. It hurts, I feel like I am not good enough and that I am not what he wants. I can't help how strongly I feel about this. I will not live like this. I just want to be his everything. I can honestly say that even when I am alone I always think about him and I would NEVER do anything I knew would hurt him. He did this knowing it would hurt me-that makes it a big deal.

 

 

 

I agree completely. My husband also has a porn addiction, but unlike you i didnt have a problem with sharing the porn experience. The problem arose when i found he was hiding it from me, while i was pregnant, he didnt want to share the experience and in fact, i found it got to the point where he wouldnt touch me. I told him that as a matter of respect i felt he shouldnt access porn sites while i was pregnant and that if he wanted to do the porn thing (for the millionth time) IT AT SHOULD BE SHARED. That way its me and him, not him and them. He agreed, again he lied about it. Then again after that. It has devestated me and changed me in such a way that i feel i have to compete with these women in the bedroom in the hopes i can be enough. But knowing having had three children, i cant compete, i just cant. Also, he has created a trust issue between us, and had i known about how this would go, i would have left him before we had a child together. At least being alone i know what the hell is going on, no nasty surprises or lies. However, after i found out about the last time, he told me he had a problem and asked me to attend church with him. We also bought an internet monitoring system, which i resent but considering his history in honesty, i'll take. As well, we will be attending couples councelling. Hopefully, it goes well, i am cruising the sites (well, initially to see if i was overreacting) but now to find a better grasp of the situation and how to combat it, or if i cant combat it, how i can view the ending of our relationship over porno that doesnt affect my self esteem so drastically again. Wish me luck.

[Mae]

Also, the end all, be all in any given relationship is this, what i told my husband, "it doesnt matter what friends say, or relatives or ppls opinions flying around everywhere, its WHAT I THINK. Im the one thats here with you in this relationship, not them." Ppl can talk all they want, your the one in the arena, so to speak.

[Guest]

I disagree. If she was so insecure, she would just shut up and let him wank to his porn in fear of losing him. Him cancelling his membership alone does not prove a thing. He can just turn around and get a new one with a different email address.

 

If she divorced him, it wouldn't be just about porn now would it? If he betrayed her trust again and went back to using it despite his promises to her, she would be teaching her children that she is worthy of respect and she won't put up with an abusive relationship filled with lies...and they shouldn't either.

 

How do you come to the conclusion it isn't harmful? An activity that requires such secrecy and results in destroying marriages isn't harmful? The OP has already experienced harm due to his porning, that's why she came here in the first place. As for the morality of porn, that's up to the individual...you cannot decide what is morally right for this woman or not.

 

Ah so the conjured up attempt to protect another individual from the truth is an excuse for the deception? So if I banged another guy, but didn't tell my husband, that's ok because I'm protecting his feelings? If he really wanted to protect her feelings, he would have told her from the start that he is a porner and he was not going to stop even after they married. Then, she could have made the decision whether to marry him or call it off with adequate knowledge of exactly what she was getting into. No, this type of gaslighting logic is only designed to protect the deceptor, not the person being deceived.

 

As for whether this issue is not only addressing honesty rather than fidelity is basically a moral issue. The OP already stated she held the belief that his porning is an act of infidelity. She may have a set of religious or moral beliefs that dictate that and she posted that she also informed him of that fact prior to their marriage. Because he violated that, he indeed was unfaithful because he did it knowing full well that SHE considered it infidelity. No one here can unequivocably state that his porning is definitely NOT cheating, because that definition is strictly up to the individual. No one here has any place judging her for her particular beliefs.

 

 

 

*Applause*

[sunseed]

Yes, Lennox, thank you. In many cases, porn seems to be a sure in to activate women's natural fear of losing their mates to other women. It's too primordial to mess with for too many ladies, me included and I don't mind saying so. I hate porn too. But the thing is, I didn't always. As a younger woman and even as a young teen, I enjoyed erotic images and sex films, and had no problem with my boyfriends using it. I didn't ask and it was fine. When I met my now husband, I told him I did not want porn in our relationship because this was the big one--not just dating, not just sleeping together. I wanted something deep and very human with him. He agreed. We married almost a year ago now.

 

But about a week ago, he let himself get caught lying about using porn habitually, during a moment when I happened to be feeling especially vulnerable. That is when I knew that I could not live another day with someone who had been lying to me and doing things that he knew for a fact that I didn't want him to do, and that he claimed HE didn't want to do. And, he was doing them when I needed him most, emotionally. That night I left him. I went to a friend's to stay, to get a break from the constant questions in my mind and the fear that was keeping me from being happy in my own home.

 

Through conversations with him during my absence, I learned about the nature of his private "other" life, and just how far it went. I'd be a fool to assume I have the full picture today, given the pathology of his lies, but I do have a better idea. I already knew it had been affecting our sex life, in that he was rarely coming to me for sex anymore, and when he did (or when I came to him), what had once been a deeply hot sexual relationship was manifesting in chilly and unsatisfying encounters for me. To add to it, I was experiencing daily anxiety and feeling sure that he was always lying to me about something. I felt like I didn't know him, but when I would try to connect by asking if everything was all right, he would tell me there was nothing to worry about and there's nothing he's not telling me.

 

Which was REALLY not true.

 

He was using internet porn every couple days at least, and lying about it, and feeling enough shame not to come clean with me. He was sure he could stop, but he never did, and so the lying continued. In this way we lived very separate internal lives, and the anxiety was rising. To deal with the anxiety, he would use porn, and then feel calm enough to carry on. But I was getting continually worse.

 

When I left, I told him I didn't know if I would be back. I said the lies had destroyed all my trust, and that because of his using to "deal" with his emotions, then keeping it from me, I really didn't know him at all.

 

As these seven days passed, he told me more and more truth, which hurt like crazy. I yelled, I cried, he sobbed, he apologized. He asked me to come back. He told me he knew I might not. He researched sex addiction and found himself fitting the description.

 

Now he's starting the process of getting help through a treatment program designed to help this age group of men (28-35) who are forced to deal with this new phenomenon, the overwhelming glut of easy-access, effortless sex on the internet. He's coming out to friends and family members and finding support and I am gradually considering life with him again. As I write, I'm sitting in front of my own computer, back in the house we bought two years ago, where I will sleep for the first time in a week. In a room separate from my husband.

 

So, things are looking a little better from here. But the truth is I don't know what happens now. I may not stay more than one night because I may not feel ready. He might use again and tell me. He might use again and lie. He might get treated and get to the point that his good friend has reached: 8 months clean of porn, with an improved sex drive and far more pleasurable arousal and encounters. I hope so, for his sake.

 

Thing is, porn is not natural, as I've said in other posts. It's commerce, plain and simple. What is natural is human curiosity about sex and a nearly irresistable urge to try (or at least witness) new sexual experiences. What porn does is capitalize on that nature and yep, it exploits it for financial gain. Men my husband's age didn't have conversations with their fathers about this because back when they were teens, there was no internet and certainly no internet porn. There were magazines, yes (I remember them well, even fondly), but mags were concrete objects that you couldn't conceal from yourself or anyone else. Thus, using them was just that much more real and that much less private.

 

I think what is missing from this whole conversation on porn is this: the internet has taken us through the sex glass much more darkly than ever before, and if a person is selfish enough or shy enough or unskilled in making emotional connections, they can get lost in the world beyond the glass, held there by shame. I have been uncovering numbers that suggest that in men my age, this is getting to be an epidemic problem, and is hurting marriages all over the place. If you doubt this, take a stroll through loveshack's marriage and cohabitation section one day and open every thread with the word "porn" in it. Is there even one that opens with a celebration of porn? Are any wives or girlfriends saying how it's enriched their relationships so fabulously that they just had to write to tell all of us? Are any men stating that it's a useful tool for sexual expression that they are proud to have discovered as a marriage enhancer?

 

Or rather, are some people willing to roll with it because it's everywhere?

 

My husband is addicted to it. I have to deal with that now. I have to sit by his side and hold his hand while he cries, letting out years of pain and regret from all the emotions he successfully hid from by using porn for years. I have to go to couple's counseling and individual therapy to deal with a problem I didn't create.

 

Which brings me to the point you hear so often: "It has nothing to do with you." Well, yes, if we're talking about the beginning, that's accurate. The guy's using because of his own patterns, not yours and that's something to take comfort in, drydania. But some will say this to try to convince you not to care that he's going to smut sites. But let's be realistic and look at the whole picture of the relationship: you don't like it, he did it anyway and lied about it, and other women ARE involved, however remotely. The fact is, even if he's not sleeping with other women, he is looking to them to get off in a very impersonal way, and there's no mincing that fact. He is hurting your relationship by doing so because he is hurting your trust and your deep feelings. And if no one can see that drydania and I, and many other women are affected by it, than they are delusional. Hell yes it has something to do with you. It has something to do with all of us.

 

I think some people can handle porn in their lives. I'm one of them. But for too many--and this includes a growing number of men--it's too easy to use and too hard to quit. When the lying begins, the minute you lie about it, you have yourself a problem. And you've brought the person you love into it by eroding her trust even if she doesn't know. The very moment you feel inclined to protect your porn use over the stability of your marriage, you are failing in intimacy and giving this porn thing too much power over yourl life. And sex is an expression of life. To reduce it to base commerce does it a terrible disservice and hampers the possibility that sex between lovers can deepen the love they share.

 

Call me too much the romantic if you must. This is, in the parlance of the internet, JMO.

[CinnamonLee]

There are two issues here: 1. You hate porn; 2. He lied.

 

Guys looking at porn and enjoying themselves is almost part of their nature. It's kind of like checking out girls on the street. It's not something one can change. As long as it's done in moderation (as some posters said "not affecting being intimate with their spouses/partners"), it's not harmful. Personally, I won't call it "cheating" that far. BTW, you'd rather have him at home "doing it himself" than fooling around out there with real women.

Maybe you can learn to accept that? It can be something healthy to a couple's sex life.

 

The fact that he lied is a bigger one. Sometimes, there may be things you don't want to talk about it on your own. It's understandable. We are all human. But at least you should not lie when you are asked or confronted by your life partner. I believe that it's more hurtful when you cannot trust the person who shares a bed with you than the fact that he's doing something that you don't like (in your case, watching porn). My suggestion is that you two should go into marriage conuselling together. It's always hard to communicate difficult views and feelings. It's helpful to have a trained, third person to mediate a discussion.

[Lennox]

There are two issues here: 1. You hate porn; 2. He lied.

 

Guys looking at porn and enjoying themselves is almost part of their nature. It's kind of like checking out girls on the street. It's not something one can change. As long as it's done in moderation (as some posters said "not affecting being intimate with their spouses/partners"), it's not harmful. Personally, I won't call it "cheating" that far. BTW, you'd rather have him at home "doing it himself" than fooling around out there with real women.

Maybe you can learn to accept that? It can be something healthy to a couple's sex life.

 

The fact that he lied is a bigger one. Sometimes, there may be things you don't want to talk about it on your own. It's understandable. We are all human. But at least you should not lie when you are asked or confronted by your life partner. I believe that it's more hurtful when you cannot trust the person who shares a bed with you than the fact that he's doing something that you don't like (in your case, watching porn). My suggestion is that you two should go into marriage conuselling together. It's always hard to communicate difficult views and feelings. It's helpful to have a trained, third person to mediate a discussion.

 

You're ignoring the most important factor here. She has made it very clear that porn use is not acceptable in her relationship and she considers it cheating. It doesn't matter one bit whether YOU consider it cheating or not. She does NOT have to feel pressured to "accept" something she considers unacceptable...no matter what that is. Only a person with very low self esteem would put up with garbage like that out of pressure or fear that she's going to "lose" her man. I don't know what you've been told honey, but men don't NEED porn. It is not "natural" or else we'd have naked people all over the streets having sex in public if it was that "normal". Porn is anything but natural. The majority of women in the sex industry have drug addictions, been victims of sexual and physical abuse, and a lot of other traumas that got them into that industry in the first place. What is normal is two people having sex in private, whether it be a loving intimate moment, or just a good lay with a friend.

 

And the idea that somehow there's only one of two things happening, either a guy looks at porn OR he has sex with other women is laughable. Just how stupid and out of control do you consider men to be? I have a LOT more respect for men than to equate them with mindless animals that can't REASON or CONTROL their actions.

[catgirl1927]

You're ignoring the most important factor here. She has made it very clear that porn use is not acceptable in her relationship and she considers it cheating. It doesn't matter one bit whether YOU consider it cheating or not. She does NOT have to feel pressured to "accept" something she considers unacceptable...no matter what that is. Only a person with very low self esteem would put up with garbage like that out of pressure or fear that she's going to "lose" her man. I don't know what you've been told honey, but men don't NEED porn. It is not "natural" or else we'd have naked people all over the streets having sex in public if it was that "normal". Porn is anything but natural. The majority of women in the sex industry have drug addictions, been victims of sexual and physical abuse, and a lot of other traumas that got them into that industry in the first place. What is normal is two people having sex in private, whether it be a loving intimate moment, or just a good lay with a friend.

 

And the idea that somehow there's only one of two things happening, either a guy looks at porn OR he has sex with other women is laughable. Just how stupid and out of control do you consider men to be? I have a LOT more respect for men than to equate them with mindless animals that can't REASON or CONTROL their actions.

 

This post is just awesome. I had to quote it because it's just so great. It's so true. Guys who say it's "natural" for them to f*** around and we should be relieved at what little we get from them have no right to complain when they are in unhappy relationships. They are getting exactly what they give.

[sunseed]

Catgirl, let's hang out.