Delectable Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Men don't respond to letters. Men respond to ACTION. You need to step back. Do not contact him and he'll come running and be attentive. THEN' date=' you can tell him that that is what you want from him and if he can't do it on a consistent basis you have to leave.[/quote'] P. This is the one thing that in ALL of your posts I don't see that you have done. Stop talking about it...stop writing about it...and just BE about it. I realize this may be the hardest thing you have ever done...but I really think him finding scribbles on a plate on the table was passive aggressive (sounds harsher than it is meant to sound...cuz I'm with ya girl). Don't engage him in ANOTHER conversation...don't give him ANOTHER email...don't give him ANOTHER letter....just PULL BACK...if you are planning on leaving him if things don't change...consider this one last chance for him (WITHOUT TELLING HIM THIS IS A LAST CHANCE). Don't say I'm pulling back and this is why and this is what you need to do...just do it and see what he does. This won't work with coversation, letters, emails, poetry, rhetoric etc...just pull back and show him what life will be like without you.
Walk Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I disagree... I think pulling back to let him "miss you" will back fire. But I agree on not sending the letter. Strongly agree with not sending the letter. You'll just send him into defense mode and you can forget trying to work it out after that. I'm still having a problem with attempting to change someone so majorly. It'd be different if he was still trying to communicate, but at this point he's already retreated. Her pulling away is only going to reinforce his belief that how he is acting is appropriate for the situation. Besides, it's more pleasant for him to NOT be with her, then to talk to her. For whatever reason he is uncomfortable being affectionate with her. She's pushing him to be more open and affectionate. Time spent with her means either being made uncomfortable by attempting to be more affectionate (which may or may not be enough for her so he could potentially fail) or listening to her while she's upset about his lack of affection. It would be easier and less painful at that point to stay away. By Pada telling him she feels starved for love, and doesn't get enough affection, he's interpreting it to mean everything else he's done has meant little. That he's wasted his time on gifts, and taking her out, and all the other things to show his love because she doesn't get hugged enough. He already feels he's given a lot to her, and now this woman who's only known him a few months is demanding more. And because he doesn't feel comfortable with affection outside of the bedroom, he feels like she doesn't understand who he is, nor is she willing to accept the great things he has to offer. Making him feel like less of a man. (These are things I have been told on occasions in my past with different men. And things that I have learned from others. I am making assumptions, but without clearer communication with Charlie, then the most I can do is assume.) So, instead of creating a situation in which he felt appreciated for his actions and gestures, he's been attacked for not doing enough. Which would make him withdraw from the situation, and stop giving as much. I think you're attacking this wrong if you really wish to continue a relationship with him. But at the same time, I really don't think you'll ever see enough of a change in him to make you feel as loved and valued as you would like. And the more she presses him on this, the more defensive and withdrawn he's going to become. He's already closed his mind to any conversation on this. She could try other ways to attempt to diffuse the standoff that's been created. But again, I'm not sure if that's really best for her, considering his level of affection is not going to change dramatically. He wasn't overly affectionate from the beginning, and he's set the precident for how the relationship would go from the start. (From what I read of your previous posts) To expect dramatic change (or even dramatic from his view point) is unrealistic, and hurtful to both Pada and Charlie. As usual.. this is just my opinion.
riobikini Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 When a relationship with these kinds of problems starts breaking down -to me- it seems the next thing introduced into the picture is his complaint that she's become 'clingy'. Charlie may be a better man, and not take that route, but its possible, -and an easy 'out' for some. However, I don't know about the rest of you, but when a grown man behaving like this begins to push the envelope by turning the tables to then start complaining about 'clinginess', (actually, employing the passive-aggressive b.s. methods he's so good at using), -it really gets my goat because -for one- the problem to begin with, wasn't/isn't with the female partner in wanting affection and communication, it lies with him, in not 'fessing up to his rather serious inner problems he's had all along in that department. And two -I felt in my case, that he already had the schematics of his exit plan tattooed on his rear-end......it was always within view, because he kept his head up his a** , during, darn near the whole relationship. -Rio P.S. Pada, please keep in mind that I am speaking only from my experience, which was negative. Try not to repeat my mistakes, just use the info as a reference of the what the darker side of something like this can be like.
riobikini Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 P.S. again... Re: [B]Walk:[/b]I think it may be time to have the "talk" with him. The break up talk. Just my impression from your letter. The above quote is just one of the reasons I mentioned the possibility of the clinginess issue being introduced...when I had that 'talk' she mentioned with my B** (more than one, actually, via email, phone) -in one of the convos, regarding his lack of cummunication, and why he had misled me into believing he had wanted a relationship in the first place and was emotionally capable of being in one- he said. " I don't know why I do these things...loneliness, I guess..." I replied, " B**, look, -I get lonely, we all get lonely- it's hardly an excuse..." His next words, in an unexpectedly annoyed tone, unlike like I had ever heard out of him, " See there? You're busting me on every little thing I say.." Actually, it was the only thing I'd 'busted' him on, -I wasn't buying the excuse, -and he, being 'caught' red-handed, so to speak, by me finally discovering he was emotionally unwilling -or unable- to commit to a mature relationship was so extremely aggravated by my boldly challenging the real problem- that he resorted to the most accessible reaction: anger. After that convo, he deleted himself from my life, although I hadn't realized that, at the time, either. He was 'uncomfortable' with the situation. Time for a new relationship, -for him. And the cycle just began, again. Someone else feeling hopeful, someone else falling in love with him, someone else emerging from the fog, someone elses heart breaking. Just not mine, this time. ____________________________________________________ Pada: "...I'm just speculating, here.." We all are, -none of the rest of us know Charlie, -nor do we know for sure, how your feelings are going to change as this unfolds. I do, believe, tho, that everyone, is hoping -no, praying- for the best for you both. Take care. -Rio
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 You all have been so awesome during this time with me. Even Alphamale in his Alpha Man ways.... Walk and Rio I really feel and believe that both of you are right on target regarding my situation. It is true just as both of you describe in the majority. Update: Charlie did call me last night and he said he is taking time for himself. (This is something I thought he was doing but him not giving me a heads up hurt me because I needed that confirmation.) My thoughts: I do understand that sometimes we need to step back and re-evaluate our situations. He was ready to do that. I am/was not. I wanted to communicate about it then step back and evaluate. He would rather deal with it all on his own with the information he already has instead of comparing and sharing our information then take our time-out from one another to evaluate... This is where I am different from him. I research and gather my information then study it. He takes what he already has and studies that little bit. The mood: He was nice but on guard with me on the phone. His voice was monotone and not bubbly. (to be expected). He asked me what I had been up to and if my brother made it to my place. I said yes, I told him I hadn't been up to much other then work and job interviews and keeping my sanity. He questioned the sanity part and I chose not to elaborate. I just said "Yes, my sanity." He didn't offer up anything he was up too (I didn't ask either) other then he was taking time to himself and he was out doing errands. I replied 'OK' upon hearing this information. I'm sure he heard my meloncholy tone. He told me to enjoy my time with my brother (impossible!!) and that he was sitting in the parking lot of Walmart waiting to go in. So the call was civil, it was on guard but not cold. He wasn't a jerk to me and it lasted about 3 minutes. (Just enough time to touch-based and see how each other is doing.) He said "I'll talk to you later?" I said "ok, Later". Meaning of 'Later"= when we talk next time not later that night or day but sometime we will talk in the near near futute. Today: So this morning, my heart still hurts and I feel kinda lost. The high emotions and confusion has subsided thusfar. I feel at ease to hear him say he is taking time for himself. I assume that he is evaluating things and figuring out his feelings and what he wants because when he hung up on me Sunday night I told him he needed to figure out what the hell wants. Time is in limbo and it is time that will tell what will happen. I am going about my day as normal as possible. I don't feel so fogged up today as yesterday. The panic has subsided. Thank you all for being here and helping me through my emotional and painful time. It means a lot to me to have strangers care about me to help, guide, encourage and support me.
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 I want you to be happy. Thank you Blind_Otter.. I do too, I have searched my whole life for peace and happiness. I feel very strongly in finding a partner I can share my life with and be apart of someones life. I want the grind. I want the security.I want someone I can lean-on*trust*have faith in*to take care of*to be cared by*depend on*I want what my grandparents had........It doesn't have to be perfect,, but having someone I know who loves me and can stand the tests of time with me is what I desire. My grandmother was handicapped. She couldn't work, She could barely walk, She could barely leave the house. My grandfather loved her so much and she loved him. They had problems but they always communicated and trusted in each other to stand through it all TOGETHER.. They were not selfish and self-centered. Their love was pure and they strived to make each others lifes better, healthier and happier. When Grandma died Grandpa followed her. She was his world and he was hers. They were each others rock. I search for that...
whichwayisup Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 The good thing is, and I think it's settled your nerves, even if it is painful, you know what is going on inside his head abit more. Not knowing wtf is going on is worse than knowing - Cuz now you can deal with what's infront of you and not let the mind go all over the map freakin' out. Enjoy your time with your brother, don't let this ruin that! Keep busy, spend time with your son - And - Take a day for YOU! Get out there, buy yourself something special!!!!
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 The good thing is, and I think it's settled your nerves, even if it is painful, you know what is going on inside his head abit more. Not knowing wtf is going on is worse than knowing - Cuz now you can deal with what's infront of you and not let the mind go all over the map freakin' out. Enjoy your time with your brother, don't let this ruin that! Keep busy, spend time with your son - And - Take a day for YOU! Get out there, buy yourself something special!!!! I don't feel all over the map. Knowing that he is taking some time to himself is a comfort in its simplicity.. Its not a simple situation but just the confirmation from him as to what he is doing helped me A LOT... (Lesson to the guys--all it takes is just affirmation not a huge explaination for women also...) As for enjoying my brothers company: *He has been in town since Sunday night and I hadn't seen him until 5:30 yesterday. He was at my XH apt drinking and getting high. *He used my computer to job search from 3 to 7:30pm. *I took him to Walmart, got keys made for my apt for him, bought his youngest son diapers, bought him supper and then he disappeared over at a friends house and didn't come back. This is enjoying my brother---he doesn't visit with me, he uses me. So that was the reason for my sarcastic 'Yeah to charlie. My 16 yr old son is like my brother. He is into himself, does his own thing, doesn't want to spend time with me. I am alone unless I chose to go see my friend whom is the only one I see outside of the weekends and I need some space from her at times and right now I need MY SPACE. It is about me right now. I am tired after work and have to push myself to do anything even around my apartment. So I am just maintaining myself.
whichwayisup Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I don't feel all over the map. Knowing that he is taking some time to himself is a comfort in its simplicity.. Its not a simple situation but just the confirmation from him as to what he is doing helped me A LOT... (Lesson to the guys--all it takes is just affirmation not a huge explaination for women also...) No, I meant yesterday, not now. Now that you know what is going on and you two have talked abit, you seem more settled. I meant all over the map, in an emotional way,being upset... As for enjoying my brothers company: *He has been in town since Sunday night and I hadn't seen him until 5:30 yesterday. He was at my XH apt drinking and getting high. *He used my computer to job search from 3 to 7:30pm. *I took him to Walmart, got keys made for my apt for him, bought his youngest son diapers, bought him supper and then he disappeared over at a friends house and didn't come back. This is enjoying my brother---he doesn't visit with me, he uses me. So that was the reason for my sarcastic 'Yeah to charlie. Ahhh, k. That sucks, sorry that your Bro is like that. Guess I assumed you two were close. oops. My 16 yr old son is like my brother. He is into himself, does his own thing, doesn't want to spend time with me. Typical 16 year old. Still sucks though, I'm sure. I am alone unless I chose to go see my friend whom is the only one I see outside of the weekends and I need some space from her at times and right now I need MY SPACE. It is about me right now. I am tired after work and have to push myself to do anything even around my apartment. So I am just maintaining myself. Yup, it is about you right now! It's good that you're taking care of number one.
riobikini Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 RE: WWIU: " Take a day for YOU! Get out there, buy yourself something special!!!! " Pada, WhichWay is right, -it will probably extract a roll of the eyes from the male posters keeping track of you, -but do take a little shopping break -shopping therapy, if you will. It really does help, -it doesn't have to be elaborate, at all. I know it helped me to just go into a Bath & Body shop and get stuff that smelled great. Fragrance can have a very uplifting effect on your mood at a time like this. Get yourself a nice massage oil/lotion, a bottle of bubble bath, and/or a candle or two. You'll be surprised at how it can help soothe you and calm you down. I did the bb bath thing with a bottle of good riesling propped up next to the tub, poured myself a glass and just sipped it til my mood improved..(Smile). The only thing that brought me down just a tad was that I remembered the riesling was from a favorite place of mine I go pretty often, The Biltmore House, where B** and I had visited just a few months earlier during the jazz festival held at the winery there. (BTW, If you ever get a chance, -go! You'll love it!) But by the time I'd downed a glass or two, I didn't care. Pada, I have learned that pampering yourself in a really special way is very important during heartache. Everyone knows you are going through this, but only you are feeling the actual pain from it. So be good to yourself. (Smile) -Rio
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 ahaha :lmao: I hate shopping... (mostly because I can't afford too and I have chosen to learn to dislike it.) Saturday I was bumbed out when I had to leave Charlie because he was indecisive and talking circles about things concerning us for that day. First he said I could go with him even to the tanning bed when he went then he told me to go home and do what I need to do and that we would see each other later. He was talking out of both sides of his mouth and I was annoyed by it and I found myself stopping at Famous Footwear looking for a nice pair of shoes to dance in that the soles wouldn't stick to wood floors. (I didn't find any) Then I walked across the parking lot to Dress Barn and found a pair of slacks for work and proceeded to TJ Max and found my gf a pair of PJs that say Drama Queen on them for her bday April 4. I was tired, depressed and didn't feel like shopping but I didn't want to go home. I wanted to be out and about with Charlie enjoying the sunshine and fresh air. But he bumped me off and I didn't get to see him instead all this shyt about this Thread transpired... I hate shopping also even when I have money (like now) because I have a hard time finding clothes that I like and clothes that fit... EVEN in Mall Of America... Can you believe it.... I go out to get out and I hate shopping but what else is there to do alone??? Its still too cold to go for walks and living in the city I hate the traffic and the noise from it and its not safe to walk alone in a wooded park.. I can't win to lose and lose to win. I just need to cope and maintain my sanity.
Art_Critic Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Hey Pada.. keep it up.. you sound like your doing better.. I buy tools when I'm down in the dumps.. I start out by browsing HD and Lowes and go buy something that will sit in my woodshop and not get used.. it makes me feel better.
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 Hey Pada.. keep it up.. you sound like your doing better.. I buy tools when I'm down in the dumps.. I start out by browsing HD and Lowes and go buy something that will sit in my woodshop and not get used.. it makes me feel better. ahaha believe it or not I would enjoy shopping for tools also. I have purchased many power tools over the years for carpentry. I need a electric drill right now.. I think Sears is calling my name and it has Craftsman on it. :lmao: thanks.. I need to do laundry tonight so I don't think I'll get any shopping in tonight unless I do it on my lunch break today. Maybe I should go find myself a good book on suriviving the bumps in relationships.
alphamale Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I buy tools when I'm down in the dumps.. I buy electronics...nothing like a new gizmo or gadget to lift the spirits. New porn DVDs work also
whichwayisup Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 I hate shopping too Pada, but I do it anyway when I'm feeling crappy. Typical answer by alpha! Why doesn't that surprise me? Down in the dumps, buy porn, masterbate and then all is OK! LOL!
riobikini Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 A_C..Home Depot and Lowes are two of my favorite hangouts...God! I could live there! Seriously. -Rio
riobikini Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 RE: Pada: " I have a hard time finding clothes that I like and clothes that fit... EVEN in Mall Of America... Can you believe it...." Yep! Most definitely! Don't mean to distract your thread topic, Pada, but if you are sizes like me (2, 4) it is terribly difficult to find things...besides I'm tall, too (5' 8 1/2) and that makes it even harder...the inseams are often way too short...I have luck online...(look for Karen Millen) in new stores in Ebay...and VS for some things, (at least they have the 34 inseams I need!) -Rio
Mz. Pixie Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 And by the way, WTF is up with your gf calling him?? Did you confront her about that and tell her he's not her buddy to butt out?
whichwayisup Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 And by the way, WTF is up with your gf calling him?? Did you confront her about that and tell her he's not her buddy to butt out? Actually, I noticed you didn't really say anything about that... I would just question your friends motives on that one.
Author basscatcher Posted March 22, 2006 Author Posted March 22, 2006 O hell ya I did' She isn't one to catch on to people and the way people function. She is like a child at Christmas. When she gets a new toy she will tell everyone in the store that she got a new dollie while you are waiting at the checkout line. I told Charlie that I heard she called him and he said WTF was that all about. I told him I chewed her out. I did tell her she had no business calling him. He doesn't view her as a friend just a associate through me. I informed her of my issues I am having with him and that her call may have caused more problems in my relationship with Charlie if he thinks she was calling hm to dig for info about him. (checking up on him for me...) I chewed her out and I explained it to Charlie.. (I squeezed that into our 3 minute phone call also.. GF feels stupid now, she feels insulted and concerned she may have opened a can of worms and caused more problems for me. She then offered herself for my support of my situation and I told her I would come to her if I needed her. I am in LS because this is the better place for me to be right now.. With experienced logical and practical mature people... Not with someone who makes blind calls to my bf when they don't have a real friendship.
whichwayisup Posted March 22, 2006 Posted March 22, 2006 Good! And I'm glad that she wasn't trying to PRY into something that isn't her business. She does seem immature and actually, I hate to say it, but thinks that she is so "important". To call a friend's boyfriend, that she barely knows, to brag about her new car is stupid. She has a high opinion of herself and like, honestly, like Charlie would care either way about her new purchase! LOL it's kinda funny... She just wanted some sort of reaction. Or...well, maybe I shouldn't say the Or...I'm sure you thought it too.
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