Questions to seriously ponder. Not always black/white.

[juliainoz]

ditto little kitty

 

i really wish that you could see that u deserve better than this pada.......

 

but i have been in ur situation before, and i have stayed and tried getting more....so i know where ur coming from......

 

goodluck

[basscatcher]

I can understand what you are concerned about. I have wasted my time in the past with men. I spent 11 1/2 yrs with my xh and 4 1/2 yrs with the one after him and 1 1/2 with the one after him so I have been learning to waste too much time. But 5 1/2-6 months isn't a long long time of waste. It's been about 2 months that I've been feeling the lack of touch and the sharing of feelings verbally. The one thing I haven't done yet was to write him a letter and leaving it for him to read when he is alone explaining in detail what is happening from my view. Then I give him a little time to digest what he read and ponder on it. If I see no attempts to work with me on the missing peices then I will chose to move on. I haven't set a time line but I think 3 months max after he reads the letter is sufficient enough time for him to process, analyze it himself and start to act..

It will be June around that time and I will be able to get myself up and busy with the nice weather if we should break it off. I'll do what I did last summer and that was run, club on the weekends, date and mingle with people.. Last summer was a education for me. If I have to do what I did last summer at least I know what to expect in the single world..

[justagirliegirl]

pada, sometimes you have to know what battles are worth fighting and which ones aren't.

 

I think it is easy to get caught up in the fantasy that the love of a good woman will conquer all. I'm sure plenty of women have tried to love and change this man.

 

The problem is he does not think he has a problem and until he does, which at his age is very unlikely, he won't.

 

Taking on a project like this takes away from getting your needs met because it all becomes about fixing him.

 

What I think will happen is that you will waste years of your life on a broken bird who will use you up and spit you out to where you are a shell of a person.

 

Your time and energy could be spent with a man who is healthy and available right now! One that will give you what you want and deserve.

 

As for sticking around until you are cheated on and physically abused, that says a lot about the state you are in that you are willing to sacrifice so much of yourself and for what?

 

Of course you have to make your own decisions in life but you have to ask yourself why are you really doing this?

[littlekitty]

I think that sounds like a good line to take Pad. You've invested a lot, and although currently unable to give you the emotion/affection you desire, Charlie is obviously giving you much in other areas.

 

It seems a good idea to put your concerns out there one last time, and give him a chance to change and acknowledge them. If he doesn't you'll have to move on, sad as it may be.

 

Good luck and keep us informed!

[Walk]

Pada.. I'm sorry your relationship is going so badly. *hug*

 

I was wondering though if you're not pushing on him a change that is scary to him in it's immense size. Maybe he's misunderstanding how little it would take for you to feel loved and appreciated. And instead is thinking that you want casanova who is always touchy feely, open and affectionate. If he's uncomfortable with being affectionate, this would seem like an overwhelming task. Something he can't even tackle because it seems so large.

 

I'm just posing the question of whether he may be feeling like that.

 

I say this because I've had an SO ask me to change to meet a need. Something that I wasn't comfortable with. And it felt like an impossible thing to do, that I couldn't be that person, and I didn't know how. I was scared, and felt like a failure. If he is the "man's man" you're talking about, then the feeling of failure is what is driving him away... he must feel strongly about you or he wouldn't continually call you back. If he didn't feel anything.. this is too much drama for a man to deal with if he isn't in love, or feel strongly about the woman.

 

It's hard to change how we act, and our discomfort with something. It's a gradual change, that comes about with an understanding partner who is firm yet accepting. Never accept no effort, but if effort is there, then help nuture it. As long as it's understood that he has a choice, he can attempt to meet your needs or be a man and step aside so someone else can. Otherwise he is being selfish in attempting to keep you when he isn't capable of giving you the affection you need.

 

You may want to remind him that loving someone is about wanting them happy... and if he is unable to understand you, or doesn't want to, then honor would dictate that he step aside and allow you to find the love you deserve. The same as if you knew Charlie needed things from you to show your love, that you couldn't provide... we can't hold our SO's back, we should help them grow and strive to make their world a little better. If we can't do this, then we need to let them find someone who can.

[basscatcher]

Pada.. I'm sorry your relationship is going so badly. *hug*

 

I was wondering though if you're not pushing on him a change that is scary to him in it's immense size. Maybe he's misunderstanding how little it would take for you to feel loved and appreciated. And instead is thinking that you want casanova who is always touchy feely, open and affectionate. If he's uncomfortable with being affectionate, this would seem like an overwhelming task. Something he can't even tackle because it seems so large.

 

I'm just posing the question of whether he may be feeling like that.

 

I say this because I've had an SO ask me to change to meet a need. Something that I wasn't comfortable with. And it felt like an impossible thing to do, that I couldn't be that person, and I didn't know how. I was scared, and felt like a failure. If he is the "man's man" you're talking about, then the feeling of failure is what is driving him away... he must feel strongly about you or he wouldn't continually call you back. If he didn't feel anything.. this is too much drama for a man to deal with if he isn't in love, or feel strongly about the woman.

 

It's hard to change how we act, and our discomfort with something. It's a gradual change, that comes about with an understanding partner who is firm yet accepting. Never accept no effort, but if effort is there, then help nuture it. As long as it's understood that he has a choice, he can attempt to meet your needs or be a man and step aside so someone else can. Otherwise he is being selfish in attempting to keep you when he isn't capable of giving you the affection you need.

 

You may want to remind him that loving someone is about wanting them happy... and if he is unable to understand you, or doesn't want to, then honor would dictate that he step aside and allow you to find the love you deserve. The same as if you knew Charlie needed things from you to show your love, that you couldn't provide... we can't hold our SO's back, we should help them grow and strive to make their world a little better. If we can't do this, then we need to let them find someone who can.

 

Exactly!!!!!!! Thanks.... Words of wisdom and understanding...

[alphamale]

I dont' think this is the right dude for you PADA....we've already had numerous discussion on this in the past.

[riobikini]

PadaM,

 

I've gone over the details at least a thousand times in my own mind, wondering what I could have done to have changed things around enough to have remained in my own recently broken relationship, throughout which, some of your dilemma has striking similarities.

 

I keep coming up with the same answer I delivered a while back.

 

Mainly, due to the fact it truly was not me who had the power to make any reasonable difference with the main problem, which was a pre-existing one- and had been hidden at the get-go, only revealing itself later in the relationship, when it was too late: when I was already deeply emotionally invested.

 

I do understand that everyones individuality stands at the very center of each decision we make in life and that background plays such an important role in how we deal with others and value relationships of all types.....but those choices can, sometimes, be surprisingly different than what we expect, even with all the peering-in of others who analyze, advise, and hash out what they can grasp of the details of the situation.

 

Your Charlie, may be capable of producing that surprising difference -that answer or outcome- that we didn't expect, and choose to roll up his sleeves, so to speak, and work on the problems that are facing the two of you.

 

There is always much more to a person than what we know, or see on the surface, -and many more details that define a person more clearly than is given through a second account, and I have been aware of that throughout this thread, just as I was when I wrote my very first post here in LS about the communication & commitment problems I was having with B**.

 

I guess I am more acutely aware of it, now, because there were so many details, then, that I, myself did not -could not- mention in my own account of my relationship problems.

 

I am talking about the very crucial input which holds the key to many of the answers being sought after: as it was in my story, so it is in yours, -the input of our respective partner is(was) missing.

 

But, still, -how do you get to it, when he refuses to communicate about the problem? The redundancy is obvious.

 

If there is even the tiniest shred of possible regret that I might allow myself to entertain in my own situation, PadaM, it would be, most likely, that I did not give it just one more day to see if something miraculous would suddenly happen to eliminate the problems or give hope that they would be -could be- resolved.

 

But the minute I knew that I was strong enough to embrace my decision, I knew I couldn't wait even a second longer to second-guess it, so I acted upon it right then.

 

Of course, I had plenty of time to second-guess during the coming weeks, -but all in all, I kept moving forward through the mechanisms of withdrawal from the intimacy, knowledge and companionship of someone I truly cared about -loved- and , admittedly, even now, still do.

 

I do not regret my decision to end it, overall, -it was the right thing to do, in my case; I trusted my gut instinct, it was on target.

 

I think you are right in giving you and Charlie the time to mull this over, see what happens next, and move slowly, you'll have your answers soon enough.

 

I know it's stressful and painful, but, in order to have fewer regrets and know that you gave it all you've got to give, -it's necessary for some of us -you, me- to take the emotional hard road to try and work on it, putting forth the effort, until you are forced to accept it differently.

 

That's just the way some of us 'tick', but when we make a decsion, we also make it 'stick'.

 

You are intelligent enough to know when you have done everything you can, -you have experienced and survived very difficult things before.

 

Aside from a certain faith I have in you, intuitively formed from the strength so obvious in your posts, -I also realize you operate on on a more solid faith of yourself, and I feel sure you will make self-aware, rational, intelligent decisions concerning this.

 

I hope this made sense.

 

Take care.

 

-Rio

[Mz. Pixie]

Pada,

 

Would it be a good idea to step back a little from him right now and just let him know you care too much to be around him right now when he "isn't sure how he feels about you"???

 

What would that hurt? If you still have feelings for him after that and want to continue as things have been, then you can contact him??

 

I think some time would give you perspective on this.

 

The fact that he isn't willing to even try says alot to me personally.

[basscatcher]

If there is even the tiniest shred of possible regret that I might allow myself to entertain in my own situation, PadaM, it would be, most likely, that I did not give it just one more day to see if something miraculous would suddenly happen to eliminate the problems or give hope that they would be -could be- resolved.

Exactly, all it would take is a small gesture like:

reach out and hug me and say somethng like-I do care a great deal about you and I want you in my life. (without sarcasm)

 

But the minute I knew that I was strong enough to embrace my decision, I knew I couldn't wait even a second longer to second-guess it, so I acted upon it right then.

I am like this.

 

I do not regret my decision to end it, overall, -it was the right thing to do, in my case; I trusted my gut instinct, it was on target.

I also am like this. When I make up my mind it is made up.... I don't turn back..

I think you are right in giving you and Charlie the time to mull this over, see what happens next, and move slowly, you'll have your answers soon enough.

He is like the little child that yoiu are trying to get to eat broccoli. He seen someone else not like it so he doesn't want to try it.. If you can get him to taste it -he might just like it... I'm not ready to give up. My instincts aren't saying it--my head is because its the easy road out of hardship. No one is perfect so why should I expect Charlie to be perfect and do everything exactly right??? Am I perfect to him. Am I without flaws?? Some things are good to change.

It is not a bad thing to hug someone or tell them you really honestly care about them..

I know it's stressful and painful, but, in order to have fewer regrets and know that you gave it all you've got to give, -it's necessary for some of us -you, me- to take the emotional hard road to try and work on it, putting forth the effort, until you are forced to accept it differently.

Exactly

That's just the way some of us 'tick', but when we make a decsion, we also make it 'stick'.

When I make up my mind about a life issue for myself I am known to stick to it...

You are intelligent enough to know when you have done everything you can, -you have experienced and survived very difficult things before.

Yes, I am a survivor and I am open to learning from my mistakes but that doesn't mean I won't stick my kneck out knowing there is a chance I could get hurt. I take the risk because I believe that there are good things out there and good people and I will find them...Even if they are a diamond in the ruff-I am willing to clean them off so they shine. Relationships are about helping another person become the best they can be. It is about caring and kindness.

 

I will know when it is time to give up. Right now isn't that time. I am hurting for the warmth of his arms and the gaze into my eyes from his. I am missing hear him tell me how he feels about me in the good sense.

He hasn't been willing to put his kneck out there. He has trust issues. He's been very hurt and recently I might add.

 

Aside from a certain faith I have in you, intuitively formed from the strength so obvious in your posts, -I also realize you operate on on a more solid faith of yourself, and I feel sure you will make self-aware, rational, intelligent decisions concerning this.

It is too easy to make a hasty decision in this day and age because our society is all about speed and convience.. I don't want to give up too soon. I know better then to allow myself to be used as a doormat. He doesn't use me. He is hesitant with me.

He did warn me he takes things slow.

He has told me to look at how much time we spend together. He stated if he didn't want to be around me he wouldn't call me every day or ask to get together 3-6 days a week.

 

I see this but I miss the warmth of strong arms around me. I miss feeling someone's eyes looking into mine (attraction). I miss the loving and comforting touch. I was very very spoiled in my last serious relationship. I recieved so much affection I couldn't walk by without him touching me. He kissed me everytime he was near me. Even while I slept I would feel him lean over and kiss me while he thought I was sleeping. He brushed my hair before bed and would brush it while watching TV and after showering. He would cuddle up with me on the couch with his arms wrapped around me..

My Xbf did this from the moment we met face to face all the way up to the day he walked out on me. (I knew he was leaving 2 days before he left. He told me.. It wasn't a surprise. But it was confusing.) he showered me with much much much love. Even 6 months later when he came back to get the rest of his stuff he was still loving and affectionate towards me.

 

So to be cut off while in a relationship with maybe 2 kisses in a evening out with Charlie it is really really hard. I am 98% of the time the initiator.

Charlie WILL do things out of the blue that surprise me and make me grinn from ear to ear. Those are the little things I hold onto dearly. He has it in him but he is reserved. I believe out of being hurt so much.

 

Rio-You have good insight into me. It always feels good when someone can see into and feel my situation.

Walk was also able to see into it.

My Friend Slubber was able to see into it and give good insight.

There are others too that get insight and can see by my posts who I am and what I am about. I think those people are ones who are like me and care alot for others and understand no one is without flaws. You are all big-hearted people.

[Art_Critic]

It seems to me that you are figuring out that you two are NOT compatable..

 

I think that since you are coming up with this conclusion you need to pull the bandaid off quick to minimize your pain.

[basscatcher]

It seems to me that you are figuring out that you two are NOT compatable..

 

I think that since you are coming up with this conclusion you need to pull the bandaid off quick to minimize your pain.

 

Its not fear of pain A-C.. I fear more of walking away and always wondering if it could have been worked out.

I cannot walk away until I feel all my loose ends are tied up and they arent.. I have more strings to tie..

I can't rip that bandaid off just yet or I won't heal right. The pain isn't what I worry about. Its the not knowing. So I have to exhaust my resources. I have to try.

 

If Charlie and I don't work out many of you will say "I TOLD YOU SO."

That is fine but don't pour salt on the wound.. Respect that I tried and gave my best.. Dont punish me more for having faith in human nature and life.

[Art_Critic]

Its not fear of pain A-C.. I fear more of walking away and always wondering if it could have been worked out.

I cannot walk away until I feel all my loose ends are tied up and they arent.. I have more strings to tie..

I can't rip that bandaid off just yet or I won't heal right. The pain isn't what I worry about. Its the not knowing. So I have to exhaust my resources. I have to try.

 

If Charlie and I don't work out many of you will say "I TOLD YOU SO."

That is fine but don't pour salt on the wound.. Respect that I tried and gave my best.. Dont punish me more for having faith in human nature and life.

 

you will never hear I Told You So out of me.. s*** at least your in a relationship.. most of us on LS are hiding.. At least I am.. or think I am..

 

I'm a lot like you in that I have to give it my all in order to feel like I tried everything..

 

But the key is knowing when enough is enough and cut the ties.. and realize that you did everything you could

[blind_otter]

Hah, I just had a thread about how I have to exhaustively over-explain myself to the guy I'm dating/breaking up with/dating. that looks absurd. It is.

 

I think sometimes we desperately want the other person to understand why we make the choices we make. We love them. We want to save them pain.

 

I've heard that in AA. The addict's feeble attempt to control their surroundings when they feel out of control -- sometimes they damage themselves, just like a cutter but in a more insidious, less obvious way.

 

At least then you have the illusion of controlling something that is so very ultimately out of your control.

[alphamale]

you will never hear I Told You So out of me..

you will hear that out of me, however

[basscatcher]

you will never hear I Told You So out of me.. s*** at least your in a relationship.. most of us on LS are hiding.. At least I am.. or think I am..

 

I'm a lot like you in that I have to give it my all in order to feel like I tried everything..

 

But the key is knowing when enough is enough and cut the ties.. and realize that you did everything you could

 

:lmao: Hmm, I didn't know everyone was hiding.. ?

 

Alpha--you would stick it in the heart and twist it. You should consider the determination people have and their efforts of faith in others.

 

 

Alphamale says:

you will hear that out of me, however

Yeah I beleive it because you like to stick the knife in a turn it also.

Yes I know when enough is enough. I am not living with the man so it will be easier to get out when I chose to if it comes down to that.

I see good in everyone and that is my problem. I know we all have the ability to learn and change and sometimes we do it only when someone cares enough to withstand with us. Other times we are too blind to see reality until its too late.

I pray he wakes up before its too late.

[SmoochieFace]

Alpha--you would stick it in the heart and twist it. You should consider the determination people have and their efforts of faith in others.

 

Faith and determination can only get you so far... and it seems that this is a lost cause yet you are still willing to hang on until there is absolutely nothing left to hang on to. To me, you are just delaying the inevitable.

[basscatcher]

To me, you are just delaying the in evitable.

O'Well,

At least I can feel I put my best foot forward and live with it knowing I tried.

Its about peice of mind for me that I made the attempt. If I give up before its due time for me then it's hard for me to get over and let go of.

 

He is still in my life and he is still reaching out by calling me and asking to met up and go out. He shares his daily grind with me and things about his kids and brothers and friends..

He isn't keeping in the dark about his life just his feelings for me...

[alphamale]

I see good in everyone and that is my problem.

there is nothing wrong with that PADA....but you must also see the bad in them. And then learn to weigh the good against the bad....

[whichwayisup]

there is nothing wrong with that PADA....but you must also see the bad in them. And then learn to weigh the good against the bad....

 

I agree 100%. When the bad starts to outweigh the good, it's really time to think, is this worth it? Am I truely happy?

 

Love is love, but sometimes it's just not enough.

[basscatcher]

there is nothing wrong with that PADA....but you must also see the bad in them. And then learn to weigh the good against the bad....

Yes I do that too.

That is why I left other relationships. The bad was bad enough I didn't want to live with whatever it was because they chose to not want to work through things or change.

I wont be someones doormat for long..

The two issues I am facing right now are his lack of expression of his feelings for me and his discomfort of touch.

I have the awareness of where these faults come from in his life because he has told me.. They are caused from him being hurt and being afraid to let someone in again..

He may have been raised without witnessing huggy-touchy-feely people but he has had expressions of love growing up and he has also expressed it and was hurt by giving it.

He is like a child who almost drowns. They are afraid of water until they overcome that fear they can't even stand on the dock or shoreline and enjoy the beauty of it..

If I can't get him to try to trust me that I wont hurt him, take advantage of him or abuse his affection I will walk... I am not going to spend years beating my head against him.. I can't. But I will give him a chance.

As I said I have one last avenue to communicate with him and that is by writing him a letter. I will hold the letter for a day or two and re-read it and make changes as needed so I don't ramble too much or fill it with overcharged emotions.

I can fix it and alter it when I have stepped away and cleared my head.

 

I don't get that opportunity when I post on this board because it is immediate and there are immediate reponses so I write on impulse and not total reflection, examination, and proofing. The letter I write him will be concise and to the point. It will make sense to anyone who reads it.. He will be able to read it without seeing my facial expressions or hearing the tone of my voice. He will only see my words and he can focus on them and not be distracted by his senses..

If it don't work by June then I will end it if he doesn't by then...

[blind_otter]

I always use this quote from Samatha in Sex and the City....

 

The difference between a good relationship and a bad one is simple. How much time do you spend like this and how much time do you spend like this .

[SmoochieFace]

O'Well,

At least I can feel I put my best foot forward and live with it knowing I tried.

Its about peice of mind for me that I made the attempt. If I give up before its due time for me then it's hard for me to get over and let go of.

 

He is still in my life and he is still reaching out by calling me and asking to met up and go out. He shares his daily grind with me and things about his kids and brothers and friends..

He isn't keeping in the dark about his life just his feelings for me...

 

But you decided quite some time ago that you couldn't be with a man who has considerable difficulty in expressing his feelings. He hasn't changed at all from that standpoint and yet you are still holding on.

 

Thing is... you are putting forth all this effort and... how much effort has HE put into this? Well... apparently, not very much. And even if he did, the thing is, PADA, this guy cannot change his basic personality and his history. Those two things are part of who he is as a person and it is impossible to change both of them.

 

In a nutshell... you are expecting the impossible out of him... and you are not exactly willing to accept him *as is*.

[Delectable]

I always use this quote from Samatha in Sex and the City....

 

The difference between a good relationship and a bad one is simple. How much time do you spend like this and how much time do you spend like this .

 

LOL BO me too! I use it ll the time. and it really is that simple. Pada you have been on this rollercoaster ride for awhile. I fear that you weed through all of the 'move ons' until you get a response you can cling to...which is a 'change yourself' or 'wait' which is what you've been doing...I hope you are journaling so you can determine how happy you really are...

 

How much time do you spend like this and how much time do you spend like this .

[basscatcher]

I always use this quote from Samatha in Sex and the City....

 

The difference between a good relationship and a bad one is simple. How much time do you spend like this and how much time do you spend like this .

 

in 5 1/2 months the average would be like this .

Lately its been equal so thats why I'm trying to communicate about it with him because I'm growing fior him and he is slowly getting behind me.. We don't all move at the same pace.. Its making me uncomfortable. I don't want to be like this most of the time. So I am attempting to stop the decline.