Questions to seriously ponder. Not always black/white.

[riobikini]

And, PadaM, -you sound far too much like me in how you view all this, and where you are coming from emotionally.

 

It's really quite scarey to read your posts...it's almost me talking.

 

-Rio

[Guest]

And he told me that people over use the words "I love you." When we went to work in the morning and came home...no hello and goodbye kisses. It made me feel unloved and VERY lonely. It was so weird because whenever he thought he was going to lose me, he'd be EXTREMELY affectionate. But it was obviously an act. He knew what I needed/wanted but could not give it on any kind of consistent basis.

 

It wasn't necessarily an act. Some people are *very* affected by their upbringing. If their parents were cold and unemotional, they learn that behaviour and find physical contact, even with loved ones, uncomfortable and unpleasant.

 

By the way, he did have an alcohol problem. I never really connected that problem to his being emotionally distant but one poster on here did connect that. I thought that was interesting.

 

I suspect people turn to alcohol to self-medicate for the problems that cause them to be distant and unemotional.

 

How do you let go when they are there for you, spend lots of time with you, call you everyday, has given you gifts, you are in love with them, and they don't know how they feel about you?

 

I'd not be surprised if it hadn't been a long relationship (12 months or more). Contrary to popular belief, you don't necessarily fall n love in a few months; especially if you have problems with intimacy/emotion. And if there had been a fair bit of conflict or if someone had expressed concerns about me being too needy or clingy or insecure, I'd expect even less that he'd be anxious to declare love.

 

After a certain age, caution on both sides is warranted. I would far more mistrust a hasty declaration of love than I would an unwillingness to declare love early. In my experience, people who make hasty declarations of love do so without really knowing me. It's not until you know someone inside out and backwards that it's valid to decide you love him or her and that's not accomplished in a few months' time.

 

Having said that, I'd never, ever, ever get involved with a guy whose social life includes a lot of drinking. I've seen your other posts- drinking is always mentioned. I think it's a mistake to think that a great amount of use of alcohol is no big deal. It's a very big deal indeed and promises only to become a bigger deal as time goes on.

 

Bottom line: don't expect him to change. People with a lifetime of behaving one way don't turn around and become entirely different. Not for love. Not for money. For whatever reason, he is not as emotionally open as you'd like and if you can't live that way, then forget ever living with him. Better to make the break sooner than later, IMHO.

[basscatcher]

Rio-

I think there are many ppl who feel as you do..

That is why I love LS so much. We can all help one another out because we share so many common grounds of reality with others.

------------

It is very hard to see so many good and wonderful qualities in someone but they lack other important things we need to share a balanced life together.. This is where I am at with Charlie. I need the emotional and affectionate area in my life filled and he can't do that. But he fills all the other areas. That is why it is so hard to accept having to let go of him.

I have to give up the good I feel in love with.. He is a wonderful man but lacks the ability to emotionally connect and share it.

[jerbear]

The wise saying "You can't make someone love you", truly applies with a CP.

 

-Rio

Very true and called the girl to say I've gave up.

 

The winds of relationships can change at anytime. Someone better or that timing issue can change overnight.

[basscatcher]

I don't know where to begin with what I need to do. I don't like the idea of letting him go but I know if I don't I WILL feel empty and not fullfilled.

How do I tell him this when he thinks there is nothing wrong between us. He said so last night he didn't think we have any problems with our relationship... I've been trying to tell him for almost 2 months that he isn't affectionate and he doesn't share his feelings with me about us and me.

He doesn't get it.. He is 'dumber then a box of rocks.' the rocks are sitting right in front of him and they are in open view and he can't see them. He says they aren't there... UUUUGGGHHHHHH... Why is he so blind???

 

Touche' said:

When we went to work in the morning and came home...no hello and goodbye kisses. It made me feel unloved and VERY lonely. It was so weird because whenever he thought he was going to lose me, he'd be EXTREMELY affectionate. But it was obviously an act. He knew what I needed/wanted but could not give it on any kind of consistent basis.

I can see this happening. I believe it will happen when I push him away. He doesn't see a problem between us. He doesn't hear me when I tell him simply he isn't affectionate towards me or shares his feelings with me.

[riobikini]

RE:

 

 

PadaM: "...I've been trying to tell him for almost 2 months that he isn't affectionate and he doesn't share his feelings with me about us and me.

He doesn't get it.. He is 'dumber then a box of rocks.' the rocks are sitting right in front of him and they are in open view and he can't see them. He says they aren't there... UUUUGGGHHHHHH... Why is he so blind??? "

 

PadaM, I am shaking my head, again, at the striking similarities between your story and mine.

 

To get my B** to understand what you just wrote, some time ago, I emailed him a little story, called 'The Broken Popcorn Machine' , -it goes sorta like this:

 

A little boy was with his mother one day and spotted a popcorn machine with mountains of fresh popcorn in it.

 

Of course he wanted some.

 

He put his coins into the machine, expecting popcorn, but none came out.

 

He checked to see if the coins were stuck, -but, -no- they'd been swallowed by the machine.

 

He went to his mother and told her what happened and, taking her by the hand, brought her right in front of the popcorn machine and, pointing to the popcorn, said, "There it is! I can see it, I put my coins in, and it still won't come out. Is there anything we can do?"

 

His mother stood there and sadly shook her head, "No, I'm afraid this popcorn machine is broken, and no matter how many coins you put into it, the popcorn will never come out until someone fixes it".

 

So, PadaM, I'm afraid that our 'popcorn machines' are broken, and until they get repaired, they will never be able to give us anything, no matter how much we put into them.

 

I hope my experience gives you a 'one up' on your own situation.

 

I am still dealing with it, -and still horrified at the idea that someone cannot let himself feel anything beyond 'affection', perhaps, when so much more is available to him, if he'd just seek 'repair'.

 

-Rio

 

P.S. The reaction from him regarding the Popcorn Machine story? He said I was making him feel guilty!

[basscatcher]

Normally, I don't say hurtful things to people about their lives intentionally.

 

The things I say are because of my awareness, of a belief I have in my perception, of someone lifes according to the information they have given me about them.

 

This weekend I hit below the belt the Charlie. I feel a bit guilty for saying what I have but what I said IS my perception..

 

What I said :

 

"You wouldn't understand, your a man, your dumber then a box of rocks."

 

His reply:

 

he laughs in a humbled way and says Gee, thanks.

 

(I jumped in my car and left.)

 

Last night I said:

 

I can see why your ex-wife fell into another mans arms. You weren't giving her the affection and affirmation in the relationship.

 

and then I said immediatly after:

 

I can also see why your ex-girlfriend couldn't commit to you. She showed it when she went to the bars with you. She flirted with everyone and made her rounds with all the men and got their attention because you didn't give her the attention she needed.

 

His reply:

Maybe, your probably right.

 

------

The comments I made were my perception that he just doesn't emotionally give to the women he's had in his life and makes them feel emotionally neglected so they either leave him or can't commit to him.

 

I feel emotionally neglected by him. He is everything but that and that is a important part of a relationship to me. I didn't start to notice that he wasn't growing with me until about the last 2 months. He wasn't expressing his feelings to me about us or me. He wasn't becoming more expressive with his affection. He actually seems to be recoiling. (becoming overly comfortable and doesn't have to give the attention to attract me.)

 

Upon me recognizing this I speak up to him and try to communicate with him what I am feeling and seeing and he pulls away from me because he is imcapable of facing feelings and emotions of his own and of someone elses.

I was crying when we hung up the phone last night and I could tell it made him really uncomfortable. He was trying to direct me to get some rest and relax and get a good nights sleep but his words were hurried which showed me he was uncomfortable with me crying. I was trying to hold the tears and sobbs back but he could hear my voice cracking and breaking up. He stated he feels and thinks there is nothing wrong between us and that it is me being over analitical and creating drama.

 

He has NOT called me today which is unusual. I have wanted to call him but I have been holding myself back and I've been waiting for him to call me. He knows I had Mass at 11:30 am then my gf was flying back in from Austria at 1:20pm and then my brother is coming into town and he is going to stay with me until Thurs looking for work.

So I know his excuse for NOT calling me is 'he didn't want to disturb me when I was spending time with my friends and my brother...!'

We ended the phonecall last night on a tense note and I'm sure he doesn't want to deal with me so he is keeping his distance because he doesn't do well with conflict. Especially one that is emotionally charged..

I understand most men can't deal with a woman crying. But my Gosh, I think most men who care about their woman endure it because they care about her.. Charlie runs and hides from it....

 

I have been on they brink of tears all day and I did break down once. I am hurting so deeply and I feel like I am going to explode.. I desire for him to just hold me in his arms and not let go for at least 15 minutes. Gosh I need a hug and warmth right now.. This really hurts and I'm in the prime of the pain right now.. I know I will get past this and the hurt will eventually go away and I will heal but damn it doesn't help the hurt, hurt any less. I know reality... but damn it why can't things ever work out...

[basscatcher]

Charlie comes from a intact home with strong Catholic values growing up. He attended Catholic School and graduated from High School in it. His mother was a very active advocate for women bettering their lives and also for shutting down the porn industry. His dad was a big business man. The family is all German. Charlie said that his parents were in their lives but they weren't strongly affectionate people. He said that he rarely seen any affection between his mom and dad growing up and affection wasn't somethng that was done in his family.

I understand that people tend to become products of their upbringing.

I know that is not always true and I also know that we are adults and we chose to behave the way we do.

I come from a abusive, neglectful childhood. My father abandoned me as a child and denied I was his child. My mother was a mess because of my father and he struggled to raise two children with no help from anyone.. NO ONE not even a social services office. No child support. She was working plus trying to mend her own broken heart. She wasn't emotionally available for me either.. I did not turn out to be abusive, neglectful or emotionally unavailable. I am just the opposite because I chose that I would not be like my parents. No one deserves to feel the way I did growing up.

Charlie knows he didn't grow up with affection and he admitted he knows it. He can chose to not be affectionateless. He can choose to be aware of anothers needs. There is NO excuse that will do for me in regards to the way he is acting.

He admitted to me that he was affectionate towards his XW.. He said he use to hug her and kiss her all the time but he didn't share with her what was going on inside of him-work, stresses, disappointments, etc.

Then the XGF he said she wouldn't allow him to hug her, touch her or kiss her unless she wanted him too so he learned to back off and wait for her to come to him..

[whichwayisup]

It seems the forces are against you two ... And as much as you love him, he isn't ever going to be the "Charlie" that you want him to be. He is who he is, as you knew that from the start. He has tried, you have tried. You are who you are and can't (and shouldn't) settle for less.

 

It's sad because if you took away the emotional baggage, I'm sure things would different. As painful as it is for you, and him (though he won't show that to you) maybe it's time to either end it or decide together to go to couples counselling. Would he be willing to do that, for the relationships sake? Because from where I sit, this situation can't go on for too much longer, it's killing both of you.

[basscatcher]

.........It's sad because if you took away the emotional baggage, I'm sure things would different. As painful as it is for you, and him (though he won't show that to you) maybe it's time to either end it or decide together to go to couples counselling. Would he be willing to do that, for the relationships sake? Because from where I sit, this situation can't go on for too much longer, it's killing both of you.

 

It is very sad.. yes, if the emotional baggage would heal (which wont happen unless he choses to step outside of his box) things would be so wonderful for both of us.. He is emotionally crippled and can't deal with or face emotions...

This is killing both of us. He finally called. He hung up on me a second time in 20 minutes. He called with so much enthusiasm in his voice and he seemed happy and asked me questions about my day. He asked me if I wanted to meet up with him. He mentioned that I didn't seem like I was in a mood to go out. So I stated the obvious again that I am a emotional wreck because he wont face the reality and communicate with me about the fact he can't tell me how he feels about me and how come he can't be a little more affectionate towards me outside the bedroom...

He cut it all as always and said he is going to go home and go to bed. He stated he can tell that it wouldn't be a pleasant time for us to go out for supper (i havent eaten much for 2 days) because I was in a negative mood. I told him it wont change unless he faces the truth and communicates with me about this situation. I stated its been going on for about 2 months and its not going away. I told him it seems Im suppose to be a good time gal and I'm not suppose to have wants, needs, feelings, or desires. I am suppose to always be happy, always be joyful. I'm not suppose to be a human being.

He cut the conversation off and said he is going home and he is going to go to bed. (7:20 pm) He said he would call me tomorrow.

I reminded him this wont go away until he faces it with me..

He said goodnight and hung up.

I texted him and said I didn't say no I didn't want to see him but that I really needed some tenderness right now.

He called me back without reading my message and said he was getting ready for bed. That he would call me tomorrow. He said goodnight and hung up again... He can't deal with this. He can't face it. He shuts down when confronted with facing his feelings and mine.

I think are relationship is totally doomed unless he has an ephiphany FAST....

I seriously think he knows the answers and he understands clearly what is wrong. But he can't get the strength to open up.. Opening up makes him vulnerable.... Vulnerablity makes him weak.. Weakness can hurt him. Hurting him will make him feel like a failure...

 

Where are the men to give me insight... I get lots of replies and insight from women and they are all much appreciated but WTH are the men on this board... Charlie is a man's type of man.. I don't know how to deal with these kinds of men. I am use to the typical male of today. Ones that express, give, hug, touch, take you out to the movies or dinner and work in factorys and are stuck in the 80's.

 

I am now feeling hope and digging for hope. My heart is speaking now over my head from earlier posts..

 

I am on the roller coaster.. Please bare with me this emotional roller coaster I am on...

 

Earlier I knew it was inevitable that he and I wont work. Now Im thinking we could work things out.. UUUUGGGGGHHHH

 

PS: As for counceling; if he can't open up to me how or why would he open up to a councelor... At almost 6 months in a relationship do you think a man like Charlie would see a councelor about communication problems in a new relationship? Women would most likely do this but men?? I don't think so.. He would laugh.

[whichwayisup]

See, neither of you are willing to give an inch. He wants things just to be fine, (which is getting his way) he wants to just enjoy the relationship and go with the flow...You want him to listen to you and sort out the problems, the more you push it on him, the more he backs off, which inturn, gets you going even more. It's a vicious cirlce you're on.

 

He isn't going to change his ways. Yes, he may lose you because of his unwillingness to open up - Or you'll lose him for not just accepting him for who he is. Some may settle and change their own ways, compromise more, give more, just to keep the guy they love, but something tells me you're not one of those types. And that's OK. You have to be happy too, and this relationship, as much as you love him and he makes you feel good, really isn't working because neither of you are really "hearing and accepting" eachother's needs.

 

Try to get some sleep tonight.

[basscatcher]

See, neither of you are willing to give an inch. He wants things just to be fine, (which is getting his way) he wants to just enjoy the relationship and go with the flow...You want him to listen to you and sort out the problems, the more you push it on him, the more he backs off, which inturn, gets you going even more. It's a vicious cirlce you're on.

You are correct.. It is happing just like as you said. We both admitted that much to each other.

He isn't going to change his ways. Yes, he may lose you because of his unwillingness to open up - Or you'll lose him for not just accepting him for who he is.

I think it maybe the other way around. He will lose me. I get the feeling he isn't really the type to just give up. He backs off then contacts. I could be wrong. O well. We shall see. I am the one who is already talking about it not working out and he is saying we dont have any problems.

Some may settle and change their own ways, compromise more, give more, just to keep the guy they love, but something tells me you're not one of those types. And that's OK. You have to be happy too, and this relationship, as much as you love him and he makes you feel good, really isn't working because neither of you are really "hearing and accepting" eachother's needs.

Bingo.. I use to conform to hold onto a man for security.. Hell NO. not no more.. I will hold on for a period of time but if things don't change or at lease start to change I will walk.. If I don't see ANY effort I will die inside and walk.. Leaving the man dumbfounded. I tend to disconnect while still going through the motions. So when I walk the man doesn't see what hit him when I have warned him and he didn't listen..

Try to get some sleep tonight.

I should sleep well. I am emotionally drained and exhausted. I haven't eaten a lot either in the past two days but I did have steak, potatos and broccoli for a late lunch. When my heart is hurting I tend to lose my appetite.

[lovernotafighter]

Thanks for your insight juliainoz.

 

Dinnj-Thats how I feel I am becoming. I feel desperate and I appear insecure (which I really am not..)

 

justagirliegirl you said "These people are emotional cripples." and "If he is like that at 5 1/2 months that is not good. As hard as it may be, cut your losses and move on." I have been thinking about this for the past week. I also wonder if he needs to miss me to wake up. One never can tell until we chose to step back, step off and move on.. It is scary for me right now. He has given me so much but I am missing so much from him in the relationship. The more time that goes by the more I am feeling the hurt and desire for more.. I am not getting more from him. He is not growing with me.. We both made the statement last night on the phone "what are we doing together?" This is scary.

He said he doesn't see a problem. I do..

i just read a book called "why men love bitches" and heres the best advice in it...men don't respond to talk...they respond to no contact. he does need to miss you and see you can have a very happy life with out him..he'll change or you'll happily move on by the point of no return.

 

I did back off my man and it baffled him..it works believe me

[whichwayisup]

If I don't see ANY effort I will die inside and walk

 

The thing is, he has made little changes, maybe not enough to meet what you need, but the efforts has been there, for both of you.

 

men don't respond to talk...they respond to no contact. he does need to miss you and see you can have a very happy life with out him..he'll change or you'll happily move on by the point of no return.

 

I believe this too.

[riobikini]

RE:

 

PadaM: " I tend to disconnect while still going through the motions. So when I walk the man doesn't see what hit him when I have warned him and he didn't listen.."

 

Exactly as I did.

 

Then I did, in fact, end it, -because I could take no more of it.

 

Also, the not eating thing is something I tend to do when upset, -always been kind of thin...but it's not good for either one of us. Eat something, despite all this (you should not be sick on top of everything, too).

 

PadaM, my heart does go out to you, -I know a great deal about how you must be feeling.

 

I was so hurt when I first came to this board, -then the anger set in; I didn't know which was greater.

 

The anger was good, though, -because it kept me from being sucked back into the excuse-finding dysfunctional coping methods I was trying to escape from just weeks earlier in the relationship, and which kept me in denial.

 

The anger kept me sane, believe it or not. (Smile)

 

It kept me from putting back on those rose-colored glasses to view what had happened and what was happening, -but most of all what could never happen due to his commitment-phobia issue and the just as significant issue with his inability or unwillingness to communicate with me and -dare I say it- show his feelings.

 

PadaM, to clear up that last statement, for anyone who might be grinning, thinking about that as a traditional gripe of women in general, -let me say that I'm not talking about staring at each other cow-eyed for hours in a front-porch swing- I'm talking about gentle touches, passing glances that say everything in a split second, and subtle displays of affection in everyday routines, -not to mention just talking, simple communication.

 

Of course, you can always throw in a few of those embraces that linger long after the arms have slipped away, too...but the point is , as important as the displays are, it's also just knowing that there is something living, beautiful, and genuinely felt behind all that.

 

And it's important to nearly every woman.

 

This is such a hard lesson for many men to understand, -they think you're wanting the 'gooey stuff'- the middle-school stuff- and they reject it as nonsense.

 

It's anything but nonsense, it's essential to many women.

 

My fantastical wish?

 

That the two genders could exchange places -and just get to know how it feels to live within the opposite DNA for long enough to experience some of the major issues.

 

Since it's not possible, I am brought to one of your main topics, PadaM, -communication.

 

That's why it's so very, very important, because if we communicate poorly, communicate too infrequently, or do not communicate at all with the opposite sex, how can we ever know how to understand, compromise, or solve our problems?

 

-Rio

[riobikini]

RE:

 

PadaM: " I get the feeling he isn't really the type to just give up. He backs off then contacts. I could be wrong.."

 

In regards to CP's, the ones I have known have this very determined, competitive nature, and do not give up easily.

 

It's like, if they can't have it, -they want it, i.e. if you aren't picking up on their advances, they pursue your attention.

 

But that only happens until after they have 'gotten' you, (not to be confused with the normal 'chasing' that, sometimes, goes on in a relationship).

 

They are possessive about what -or whom- they 'have', -and it seems to me, as if there is some fear in the mix of not being good enough to 'get' you, -then, once they find they have 'won' you, so to speak' there is this awareness in the background that they will 'lose' you for some reason.

 

I think this hidden fear of losing you stems from past experiences in their pattern of commitment-phobic behavior and subsequent lifestyle of having 'lost' other companions, as well (for the very same reasons, no doubt, -lack of- or poor communication, unwilliness, inability?).

 

It's like they 'know' what's coming next, -or know well- the reasons for the fear they have and are prepared for the loss.

 

This also accounts for. and contributes to -I believe- some of the distance shown with the communication issue.

 

It's like a dog chasing its tail, -nothing ever gets resolved, it's just an ongoing cycle of pursuit, emotional 'highs' from the chase and 'capture', along with fear, and eventual loss.

I also believe that is why some CP's have more than one companion at a time, -keeping associations with others at hand, just in case one relationship comes to its expected close.

 

I also find that, in addition to having very strong traditional 'male' -or manly- traits, outwardly, CP's tend to have a seemingly polar opposite trait which appears as a passive aggressive nature, i.e. they will seem to emerge behind the scenes to 'dominate' in a very expected male fashion, but obtain what they want by doing what they want, when they want, and without consulting you, advising you, asking you, nor cluing you in....they will absolutely, stubbornly have their way.

 

Just my own observations on the matter, but they might be worth something to you or someone else dealing with the same problem.

 

Take care today, PadaM...and remember to not to starve yourself -eat something!

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[basscatcher]

Rio you said the truth about relationships. I have read many books about healthy relationships and how to obtain them. Only thing is I seem to be the only one in the relationship who knows them.

 

I'm a do'er in a relationship. I tackle issues and attempt to understand problems-where they come from-and work at finding a solution to correct the problem before it ruins what has begun.

Most men want to sweep relationship issues under the rug.

 

I have found that if a man can physically work on a problem they are willing to work to fix it but when its anything to do with feelings they turn away from working on it. Most men, not all, seem to lack the emotional aspect of life.

Hunt, protect and gather food.... That is what Charlie is...

Nurture, comfort, and take care for.... Is what I do...

 

I am far from being the type of woman who is the man/woman. I want a partner. I want gender roles in my relationship. I believe in them. But I don't want to be neglected out of affection, attention, love, communication, friendship, partnership or respect. I am not a dog and even a dog shouldn't be kicked.

[riobikini]

Pada, I am on my way to the college...I will post to you later on today....try to focus...tackle one thing at a time today...remember to have lunch (Smile)...and hugs to you, for now.

 

Take care.

 

(Smile)

 

-Rio

[blind_otter]

Oh Pad, I'm sorry. I feel for you. I know how deeply you feel your emotions and this must be a terrible time for you. Just know that there are folks out there you've never even met who read your thread and are saying a prayer for you.

[jonnie5]

I just got dumped by a girl just like this. I was always wondering how she felt about me because she was so reserved. She was only affectionate in the bedroom. She never kissed me or touched me unless we were going to have sex. This drove me crazy and it made me very insecure and very needy.

The only time I ever knew she really liked me was when i asked her to be my girlfriend after we dated for about 2 months. At that time she said she really really liked me a lot. That is the only time she ever said that.

I was getting tired of this and was thinking of ending until she broke up with me on Wednesday. Now I find myself really missing her and wanting to be with her. She said she hadn't had a boyfriend in a long time and now she doesn't want one anymore and she is very confused.

I think by her being so reserved and making me always question how she felt, this ultimately drove her away from me if she really did ever care.

[basscatcher]

Thanks Rio and B-O.. I am focus'd today.

I can't even blame my emotions on PMS cause I just finished saturday. :lmao:

I recieved some good input from a friend most of us know here on LS in my personal email and he said this:

You are one of the very lucky few that will never have any problem attracting men. You're intelligent, stunningly attractive, witty... jeez, woman, you've got it all!

If your man - in this case, Charlie - isn't providing you with what you need, there are only 3 choices as I see it:

1. End the relationship;
   
2. Change him;
   
3. Change yourself and your expectations.

All three are difficult. The hardest, however, would probably be #2, because if he has no desire to change - and few people do - then if he does make changes, they won't last.

But I get a sense that you already know this, and may be just looking for corroboration from another source.

The thing is that you've already made your feelings and needs clear, and despite that, he still isn't meeting them. The way it looks from here, it seems that he's committed to you in one sense - after all, that ring means something - but he wants the relationship to be on his terms.

Now, that's not all bad, of course. Each of us, in our own way, wants our relationships to be on exclusively our terms. That's only natural. It's not, however, realistic or rational.

My suggestion would be to find a way to negotiate this with him, combining #2 and #3, so you both get some of what you want and no one is put in a win-lose situation.

You'll need to realize that he's just not a huggy-warm-affectionate guy, but that doesn't diminish the fact that he has deep feelings for you. And he'll need to realize that in order for you to feel satisfied and comfortable in the relationship, he'll have to make more of an effort to be more affectionate.

Make no mistake; this is going to be difficult. It will require both of you to alter the way you deal with and respond to each other. And there will be times when you need some affection and he's not prepared. How you manage with that, as an individual and as a couple, will be the crux of whether or not this relationship continues.

For me personally, I'm a very affectionate guy; I happen to like snuggling and hugs and lazy Sunday afternoons in bed. But I can certainly understand why some others - men and women - just aren't like that, and their feelings deserve respect as much as mine.

Good luck with this, sweetheart. Keep me posted, ok?

A man's use of words. He is right on this. He also understands how I feel and he can speak from a man's perspective..

You all have given me wonderful input. I am not a easy quitter. I fight for what I want until I am ready to give up and I just ain't ready to give up yet. I can't. My heart wont let me even though my mind says its the best thing to do..

Charlie is a good man. He is also scarred like the rest of us.

I believe most of us here in LS have chose to find solutions to our problems and understand and learn that is why we are here. We made the choice. Charlie hasnt chosen to cross into the realm of growth, healing, understanding, knowledge, etc. We all have been in his shoes at one time havent we? We ran from our issues and one day a light bulb went off in our heads and we realized our beliefs and ways don't always work for us so we reach out to learn.

I come into LS to get other points of views. I need to hear other people's opinions and experiences. I take each persons suggestions to heart and I weight them against my values, morals, needs and wants..

 

Even people who are negative I still listen because maybe one word they say will open my eyes in a different direction.

I think Charlie is worth putting more investments into. I am not ready to let go. I can't. My heart wont let me. There ARE little teeny-weenie things he does that I see but I'm not use to looking for small details in things. Charlie needs to grow in life like all of us here are striving to do. We are all trying to make sense out of our lives. I don't think any of us here want to run away from everything and supress it all. Charlie has been and it hasn't been working for him..

Even if he and I do make a break in the future at least I can have some peice of mind knowing I tried my best to love him, care for him, help him and support him. Sometimes it is tough-love, determination and not giving up that will help someone who is stubborn and wants help but is having a hard time trusting change.. Charlie is obviously not happy with the way his past relationships have worked out. He wanted to try something different instead of repeating the same mistakes with the same woman over and over. (Xgf 3-yrs off and on.)

 

Sometimes I want change and when the change starts to happen I get scared of the unknown and I resist. If I don't get the support I need in my attempt to change I will give up. Maybe this is what Charlie needs--that push. If he really wasn't interested in me that much he had opportunity to give up on me already but he hasn't.. He might be backing off a little bit but he is still making effort.

 

I am having a hard time with him not holding me or sharing his feelings with me openly.. I will survive this I know that. But it is hard -- so now I need to be stronger and exhaust my efforts because that is who I am as a person. I don't quit until I have exhausted all my resources on a person.. I do this in my friendships and family also...

 

I am finding my two feet again and I am starting to stand up. This weekend I fell down and had a hard time getting up (my past-hurts flashed back in my mind from previous relationships).. I need to think possitive. I need to reach for my determination.

I think I am going to write Charlie a letter and leave it in his apartment. Maybe he just can't face someone with communication because he is uncomfortable dealing with another persons feelings showing; but if he is alone he can read (even though he doesn't like reading) in his own privacy and comfort zone..(his home--alone)..

 

[blind_otter]

The thing I've always had a hard time with, knowing that I am scarred myself, is acknowledging the fact that as an adult, you fight yourself half the time in your relationship, not your partner.

 

Everyone is scarred, hell yeah. Not everyone addresses this. IMO, to approach a relationship wanting the other person to change something about their personality drastically (when the impulse doesn't come from the individual, but from YOU) -- it's an unhappy situation for both.

 

The man who doesn't feel the impulse to change will slowly grow to resent the woman who tries brightly, and with best intentions, to help him grow into a better person.

 

As human beings we naturally have the impulse towards growth. It's instinctual. Some people have this impulse repressed, for whatever reason, and their stunted emotional growth forever is a mystery to them.

[basscatcher]

..The man who doesn't feel the impulse to change will slowly grow to resent the woman who tries brightly, and with best intentions, to help him grow into a better person....

 

Then let it happen. If he resents me then it is his burden.. I have done this to men before a few of them.. Guess what.. Most of them have come back to me and apoligized later for being an a$$ to me and they said I was right..

 

I have had people not give up on me when I pushed them away when I was younger. I fought tooth and nail against them trying to help me. I resented them and got upset for them being in my business and I felt like they were trying to control my life.

 

I learned that they only truly cared for me and seen the choices I was making were ruining my life.. Sometimes we learn early sometimes later. I have been told that I have had a great influence in peoples lives and I was told to never change even when I am hurting, been hurt or am rejected... So this is what I chose to do...

 

You pretty much have to physically abuse me or cheat on me in order for me to toss you into the abyss. The men I broke up with were physically abusive to me and cheated on me. I have only been dumped two times since I was 14 yrs old One man came back to me and the other tried too. I have had 8 serious relationships since I was 14 and I've dated over 40 men.

 

I have confidence in myself. I am not ready to give up.. I am not known to take the easy road.

[blind_otter]

Oh me neither, but I am also not willing to sacrifice my own mental health, and the years I have my youth and beauty, to better someone who can't find the strength within themselves to do it on their own.

 

I did it. And I, too, have a string of ex's that are still obsessed with me. But I take that as a failure on my part, to choose men who are mentally and emotionally whole.

 

I tend to chose broken men, emotionally crippled men. I wasted 11 months of my life living on emotional scraps from a man who turned out to have a severe personality disorder who is now in prison.

 

I remember keenly how I felt at that time, with him. I felt like I was starving, emotionally. Like everything was ok physically but inside I was starving to death.

 

I conditioned myself to live off less, emotionally, than I needed. Now, I am afraid after that relationship took it's toll that I will never be able to fully feel positive emotions again.

 

I feel numb and empty still, after 16 months.

 

I know that you are determined, dedicated, and loyal, Pada. I am afraid that constantly sacrificing your own well being for the sake of rescuing others will damage you.

[littlekitty]

You pretty much have to physically abuse me or cheat on me in order for me to toss you into the abyss.

 

Pada, doesn't this mean you're still settling for less than you deserve? Must you be abused or cheated on in order for you to realise you're getting less than you should, and therefore remove yourself from the relationship?

 

We've all stayed in relationships longer than we should have, willing things to change. But the saying 'you only get treated the way you allow yourself to be' is so true.

 

I'm so sorry you're hurting so much over Charlie, having followed your relationship I can understand why it hurts so much.

 

I worry you won't ever get what you deserve from him though. Please don't waste too long trying to change him if he isn't capable of it.

 

My thoughts are with you.