alphamale Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Alpha, in general, what is your take on men who do not feel comfortable with displays of intimacy, nor verbal communication with someone who cares for them -just to get the reaching spectrum on this? I think they are wierd and mal-adjusted....a real man should be comfortable with displays of intimacy (within reason, of course) and should be able to talk with his loved ones (again, within reason).
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 The first wife he had to marry (pregnant), This is exactly Charlies story-his xw got pg at 6 mnths of dating and he had to marry her-had 3 more children with her , 13 yrs of marriage-she feel into another mans arms, Charlie moved out and the other guy moved in the following week, the divorced was very very messy-no lawyer or judge wanted the case, took a year to finalize and he was taken to the cleaners. the second just kind of was 'there' and had no where else to be in her strange life. I truly think it was a feeling of being trapped -not in control- and having to 'go with the flow' with the first one. The second one, -well, she was kind of like a cheap shiny bauble you reach down to pick up off a lounge floor, you don't know what to do with it once you've picked it up, but you slip it into your pocket, anyway, and take it home with you. Like the bauble, she was eye-candy and entertainment, -company- for awhile, -then she was just a 'liability', in that she offered nothing to the relationship, but emerged as a 'taker', -of course, of material things. So, he was 'stuck' both times. This is like his xgf/fiance. He met her in the bar area of a restuant-where they went on their dates. He admitted he was hooked on her physical beauty. She was like a trophy. But she is so dysfunctional, has commitment issues herself which compliment his fear of commitment. Meanwhile, he still had this problem with communication with women in romantic relationships that never got approached and dealt with. This is so true of Charlie also. Why? I think it's because of several reasons: his possible 'predisposition' to it (family history, background schematics, genetic, etc.) , it was also, I believe, that he never really had someone interested in him enough to be concerned with those problems, but, primarily, because he chose not to deal with his problem(s) himself. Exactly.. Are we talking about the same man??? How can anyone simply choose to not develop and research their own emotional capabilities, -especially with the love emotion?? This is what I am struggling with. How can someone ignor and not see what they feel? *** I am guessing you post here was your experience? If not, then you truly read through all my posts about Charlie and these are the strong things you pulled out because they are a perfect match to him... Perfectly..
blind_otter Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I think they are wierd and mal-adjusted....a real man should be comfortable with displays of intimacy (within reason, of course) and should be able to talk with his loved ones (again, within reason). Yep. Emotionally crippled = unable to communicate. IMO it's confusing, because -- guy I'm dating said this about ME, but it's true -- when you look at someone who is emotionally crippled, they are adult in other aspects of their personality. Like me, I'm intelligent, verbose -- I sound like a grown up, but I'm emotionally stunted. In certain circumstances I react like a 4 year old. Sometimes they even overcompensate, for men this is especially true, by excelling in work or in their profession. So it's hard to compute the fact that they are emotional children. Personally, even though I am like this, I don't think it would be pleasant for someone with more developed emotional IQ to be with someone like that.
Touche Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I have to agree with Alpha. I've been a big cheerleader in your relationship from the beginning Pada. Don't know if you remember that. I told you that it reminded me so much of mine with my husband. It started out fast, no games, lots of time together getting to know one another. But by this stage we already knew we were meant to be and, in fact, became engaged. I know many will see it was too soon but s***, the proof is in the pudding. We're together over 11 years now quite happily. My point is that at this stage, you should be in a "honeymoon" stage of having seen the worst of each other but totally accepting each other. You've seen the worst, yes, but there's no acceptance. He's not accepting what you need and you are not accepting what he gives you, or more accurately DOESN'T give you. There's no point in hanging on expecting change. It ain't going to happen with this type of guy. I can see that a mile away and so can others. Don't make the mistake of hanging on too long when there will be no payoff. Cut your losses now and move on to finding the RIGHT one. It's not easy but every day you now spend with him is a day wasted. It's a day you are possibly missing out on finding the RIGHT one. He's not it. As nice as he can be. As attentive as he can be. He's not the right one for YOU. The longer you stay with him, mark my words, the lonelier you are going to feel and the harder it will be to sever your ties to him. If I were you, I'd tell him you want to date others. You need more emotionally than he can give. That's what I'd tell him. I'd also tell him that you don't want to change him and you know that as wonderful a person as he is, he can't give you what you need MOST so you need to be open to finding that. I wouldn't blame or accuse. I'd only tell him what I NEED and that I intend to find it and that I'm so very sorry that it's not with HIM.
blind_otter Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 How can anyone simply choose to not develop and research their own emotional capabilities, -especially with the love emotion?? I've done a lot of research, hell in retrospect this is why I got a degree in psych. It's sick, almost crazy-obsessive, trying to understand something that does not compute in my mind. It feels like, in relationships, when you are emotionally underdeveloped, when intimacy starts to blossom, about 6 month+ into the relationship, everything seems so HARD. It's a struggle, you have to battle yourself constantly, and deal with that frustration of trying to teach yourself how to feel things on a more adult level. It's like a child struggling to understand something beyond their developmental capabilities. I can totally see how many people give up, especially if they don't truely understand why they react the way they do. I've done it many times before. I get to the point where I'm like, I don't like that I'm feeling feelings. NOT "I don't like these feelings" -- it's like I get frustrated and upset feeling anything at all.
riobikini Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 RE: PadaM: " Charlie isn't growing with me.. He isn't moving forward with me. He hasn't moved much since we started dating. My feelings have been growing and he seems to not be moving along at all. The love that I have for him cannot grow without it being fertilized. It will shrivel up and die and he will lose." When I began to feel the way you describe, above, it was sudden, although I felt as if I was slowly coming out of a sort of fog that had lasted for a long time. It was, I think, because of the energy I had put into it trying to analyze it and come up with an answer to solve the problems, myself. It was exhausting: I had barely eaten for weeks, I had not slept, I was constantly mentally working put the problem, -but the same answer kept coming up, which was: he had to care about the relationship enough to do his part. And he wasn't doing that. And that made me angry. It all hinged on the present state of my emotions: I had already fallen in love with him, -and he wasn't right there beside me in that. The realization of the fact that I was already deeply emotionally invested and he was sorely lagging far behind, put major emphasis on 'fixing' the problem, so he could 'catch up'. But after seeing he showed no interest in 'fixing' the problem, caused the anger. Again, the dog chasing its tail. I emerged from that confusing 'fog' and -I swear- I felt more like an Amazon-sized female dragon-slayer than just a mere woman in love with someone: I made the decision right then to kill every shred of everything I felt for him. It was a decision that took alot of guts, -but I knew it would save me from being strung along like some wimpy character I my pride would not let me be. It had nothing to do with love for him at that point: it had everything to do with self-respect. -Rio
alphamale Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 -- when you look at someone who is emotionally crippled, they are adult in other aspects of their personality. Like me, I'm intelligent, verbose -- I sound like a grown up, but I'm emotionally stunted. you're only 26 b_o...many younger people still have not found their "emotional selves". Older people (meaning > 35 or so) have a much better handle on their emotions and are better able to deal with them than someone who is 18 or 25 yrs old....
blind_otter Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 you're only 26 b_o...many younger people still have not found their "emotional selves". Older people (meaning > 35 or so) have a much better handle on their emotions and are better able to deal with them than someone who is 18 or 25 yrs old.... I guess you're right. But if you're still struggling when you're like 35 or older, you're in big trouble. My Dad says that once a man reaches middle age, that's it, he's set. He'll be like that forever. I tend to agree.
Art_Critic Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 My Dad says that once a man reaches middle age, that's it, he's set. He'll be like that forever. I tend to agree. There is a lot of truth to that B_O.. but at middle age we also don't have our whole lives in front of us either.. so forever really isn't that much time..
riobikini Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 b_o, I am 45, -B** is 54..soon to be 55 in a few days...if anyone lives in such a pattern for much of their lives, as we have described in this thread, he will probably accept it as the 'norm' for himself. So, in my book, your dad is a very, very wise man. That's one of the biggest reasons, aside from my own self-respect, -that I pulled out of this relationship with B** ...who is, by the way, I am almost sure (Smile) related to Pada's 'Charlie'. -Rio
alphamale Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I guess you're right. But if you're still struggling when you're like 35 or older, you're in big trouble. agreed... My Dad says that once a man reaches middle age, that's it, he's set. He'll be like that forever. I tend to agree. agreed, for both sexes...
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 ........with B** ...who is, by the way, I am almost sure (Smile) related to Pada's 'Charlie'. -Rio :lmao: I'd swear those two must be the same person living in different dimensions.. Only my Charlie is 42 and I'm 37.
blind_otter Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 There is a certain type of person who has struggled a lot in their lives, and used that as motivation to become better. Those people are often tempted to help others, because they feel that their struggles helped them understand others who struggle. Which is true. The problem is that in our optimism we sometimes fail to see that not everyone who struggles or has pain, uses that as motivation to better themselves or grow.
riobikini Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Pada: I'd swear those two must be the same person living in different dimensions.. Only my Charlie is 42 and I'm 37. Which only goes to prove, Pada, (laughing, shaking head) -that these men must be generating from a locker-room somewhere here on earth...(or mars to earth). (Grin) We must find that locker-room and padlock the door. -Rio
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 (Grin) We must find that locker-room and padlock the door. -Rio Don't forget we need to put Dr. Phil, Gary Smalley, Dick Innes, and Dave Gray in that room along with Jesus. (We need to make sure they are safe though)
riobikini Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 pada, even in your painful dilemma, you have made me laugh with your wit and humor. I have to go back to work, now, but I only wish that Charlie could see the gem you are through the posts in this thread....it is sad that he doesn't know all he may be losing. But, -then- they never do, until its too late. Take Care. (Smile) -Rio
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 pada, even in your painful dilemma, you have made me laugh with your wit and humor. I have to go back to work, now, but I only wish that Charlie could see the gem you are through the posts in this thread....it is sad that he doesn't know all he may be losing. But, -then- they never do, until its too late. Take Care. (Smile) -Rio Exactly ,, that is why most of the men from my past still have sporadic contact with me..
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 Alright, I've composed a "rough draft" letter for Charlie. I am stepping back from it now because my emotions are in it and I feel them too intensely right now to be objective to what I wrote. I plan to go back later and reread my words and make necessary changes as needed. If anyone is interested in proofing this let me know I'll PM it to you to critique. Its two Word doc. pages long. that is why I don't want to post it..
Art_Critic Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Alright, I've composed a "rough draft" letter for Charlie. I am stepping back from it now because my emotions are in it and I feel them too intensely right now to be objective to what I wrote. I plan to go back later and reread my words and make necessary changes as needed. If anyone is interested in proofing this let me know I'll PM it to you to critique. Its two Word doc. pages long. that is why I don't want to post it.. Pada.. I understand the therapuetic reason behind writing a letter but as someone who has received a letter or two in my time let me tell you that he will not read it.. he will just gloss over it and shrug his shoulders.. The true meaning of the letter will be lost in his lack of emotion for you You guys have only been together months not years and writing the letter will not accomplish anything.. Write the letter but do not give it to him..
alphamale Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 You guys have only been together months not years and writing the letter will not accomplish anything.. I agree. Write the letter but do not give it to him.. or better yet, post it on here and we can critique it.
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 I agree. or better yet, post it on here and we can critique it. I can understand what A_C is saying but I need the theraputic way. Writing is something I do anyway, since I was a little girl. Posting it on LS? I can PM it to you Alpha if you really want me to but you would only slam it, slam me, humiliate me, turn the knife deeper and be cold and callused. Sorry Alpha but this is not your strong area. I don't see you as being sensitive to a womens (mine) feelings in this reguard. I don't need any more inflictions..
justagirliegirl Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Pada.. I understand the therapuetic reason behind writing a letter but as someone who has received a letter or two in my time let me tell you that he will not read it.. he will just gloss over it and shrug his shoulders.. The true meaning of the letter will be lost in his lack of emotion for you You guys have only been together months not years and writing the letter will not accomplish anything.. Write the letter but do not give it to him.. I don't know why women write long lettters to men full of emotional things. They never ever read them! They may read the first two sentences. I like to write out things when I am upset but I never send them.
blind_otter Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Am I having an acid flashback, or did you not recently write him a long letter about something else?
Author basscatcher Posted March 21, 2006 Author Posted March 21, 2006 Am I having an acid flashback, or did you not recently write him a long letter about something else? Yes I wrote a letter but didn't give it to him I was advised not to and so therefore I chose not too upon thinking about it.
alphamale Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 I don't know why women write long lettters to men full of emotional things. They never ever read them! They may read the first two sentences. Yeah, my ex-wife used to do this. Write me 3 page letters "expressing her feelings". I mean, WTF, if you have something to say then just say it face-to-face. After I filed for divorce she mailed me a 15 page expose in a manila envelope. I read the 1st page then threw the rest out. I didn't have time to read that crap! The way I see it, if its isn't impt enough to say face-to-face then it isn't impt.
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