AGAIN WTF Hurt Angry Frustrated

[cal gal]

I am not trying to be mean or hurtful when I say this, but most men don't want to hear all the details...

 

From my experience, they want a concise and quick scenario of anything they need addressed.

 

They don't want all the words and drama involved in getting to the problem - thus the solution to the problem. (yes they tend to want to fix things).

 

Maybe try this more conservative approach and see if you get better results.

 

If you have something to say - try to keep it to ten words or less.... specifying the issue, then WAIT to see what his response is. He may be saying more than you think he is, as when we are too busy trying to think of what we need to say next - we never listened to what they said in the first place....

 

For example - honey, - I need you to make me feel important to you....

 

Then wait - he will have SOME response, and whatever it is will tell you a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I am a woman.....

 

Just try it and see how it affects your communication level and coping/problem solving situations....

 

 

And I am reiterating my point as too much wordiness for a man is toooo much everything!

[SmoochieFace]

Smooch, if my guy told me that he was really struggling with how I am not affectionate enough in public, and it was a thing I could not change then I would tell him so and we could both go off and find like minded people and we could be happier in the long run. If he didnt tell me and I didnt have a chance to think about if I could change that aspect then that would be a shame.

 

I agree that Pada should make it short and sweet if she sends a letter, but that isnt Pada. She expresses herself with lots of emotive words and that is just the way she is. Like he may not be able to change, nor can she!

 

SO she has to do this her way. At least she is dealing with it and not hiding it!

 

My point, Lishy, is that no matter how many letters she sends him, no matter how many times she posts about this, no matter how many rings she gets from him the basic issue will always be there. He is Charlie. He is who he is.

 

Pada is trying to get him to change, to be someone he isn't. I and others here spoke of this earlier this year when his *true colours* began to glow. For some reason, she is still *at it* with this guy, hoping against hope that he will go to sleep one night and POOF! wakes up the next morning a brand spanking new Charlie, a Charlie tailor-made for all of Pada's needs.

 

Uh-uh... won't happen. Period.

[Lishy]

And my point Smoochie, is that she will end up walking away, she may as well try before she does.

[SmoochieFace]

You are all saying not to bother and to just walk away, surely she should give him the chance before she walks?

 

How many *chances* does he need, Lishy? Why should she put her happiness on hold any longer hoping for a miracle? This isn't the first time this has come up.

 

I think she is hoping against hope... kinda like that song "Looking For Love"... a line in the song is "looking for traces."

 

That's all it is... just traces.

[SmoochieFace]

And my point Smoochie, is that she will end up walking away, she may as well try before she does.

 

But she doesn't WANT to walk away and it seems that she will hold on to the slightest little thing because, IMO, Pada doesn't want to be alone.

[Becoming]

Pada: When I try to talk to him he just wants to defend himself, correct my old thinking and have me listen to him confess to me that he isn't interested in them and that they are JUST friends..

 

So instead of arguing with him I just shut up and let him rant to get it off his chest and then I dont dare open my mouth because by then I feel like shyt and he is emotionally exhausted and we don't want to talk to each other anymore for the night..

 

 

Blind Otter: I totally do this too. I just give up. I figure it's not worth it to just be right.

 

I know this scenario too, only to come out fighting with words (letters, arguments) later that just drives him away.

 

I am here to tell you that I have now learned a better way. When he starts going defensive, I say, "Whoa! Wait. This was my nickel. I have a problem that needs to be addressed, and I want to hear you and deal with yours, but I can't do that until I know I've been heard and understood. If you can't hear me, we have no reason to continue this conversation." And I leave if he still wants to be defensive, saying calmly that I'll be happy to hear him later when he can hear me, but not until.

 

This has gotten his attention after decades of verbosity only served to raise my blood pressure and frustration.

 

Don't go numb (that's old stuff trying to keep you hooked in the familiar abusive cycle). Command that he respect your feelings, and if he can't you have all you need to know about whether or not you want this relationship.

 

It's just that easy . . . and that hard.

[blind_otter]

"Whoa! Wait. This was my nickel. I have a problem that needs to be addressed, and I want to hear you and deal with yours, but I can't do that until I know I've been heard and understood. If you can't hear me, we have no reason to continue this conversation."

 

HAH! I did this with my most recent ex. He felt like, if I had an issue, well he could have his, too. We're talking about the same thing, RIGHT?

 

um......no.

 

But if you have the emotional intelligence of a crayon, then you wouldn't be able to understand the difference, wouldja?

[whichwayisup]

Over reactions, misunderstandings, miscommunication, trust issues, insecurities, expectations, worriesome thoughts...Both of you need to breathe and relax! Just enjoy things as they happen. HE is your boyfriend and YOU are his girlfriend. That is evident.

 

Of course not. But Pada is being manipulative with her letter.

Even if she is being manipulative, it isn't malcious or mean. This is pure honesty coming from her heart. No matter what happens next, atleast she can sleep at night, knowing her heart and soul went into that letter.

 

Was it too much? Maybe, maybe not. Not up for us to decide. It is who she is and how she expresses herself. But, with that being said, hopefully Charlie will take to heart what she had to say. Also, Charlie is who he is, just as you said Smooch.

 

Pad, I put this in that other post last week, don't know if you read it (or if I just thought it and didn't write it down...) but I think you if you go talk to a therapist to deal with some issues, the insecurities and (sorry) high expectations, things could get better.

 

He does love you, he gave you a ring...I guess I don't understand what the rush is and what the 'exact' problem is. He jumps through hoops, but how high does he have to go?

 

Too much reaction and drama from what I read. Sorry, don't mean that as harsh as it may read...I think both of you need to calm down, enjoy eachother and enjoy the relationship as it is. Why put all that intense worry in there? For him to PROVE his love to you 24/7? It's exhausting for both of you.

 

I wish both of you would slow down and not read into 'this and that' and react, then feel like the other person doesn't care or the love isn't there. Cuz it IS THERE.

 

I hope it works out, I don't want to see you sad...But this rollercoaster you're on is so intense and spinning out of control - Almost weekly now.

[SmoochieFace]

Too much reaction and drama from what I read. Sorry, don't mean that as harsh as it may read...I think both of you need to calm down, enjoy eachother and enjoy the relationship as it is. Why put all that intense worry in there? For him to PROVE his love to you 24/7? It's exhausting for both of you.

 

Indeed. And only after a relatively short period. Way, way too fast here.

 

And I still think that he will not change. The older people get the more set in their ways they are. Just a fact of life.

 

If she is willing to stay with him then she should expect this rollercoaster to be running for as long as they are together...

[basscatcher]

You are all saying not to bother and to just walk away, surely she should give him the chance before she walks?

 

Pad are you sure that his feeling towards you have not changed? Is that a possibility?

 

padamecklaCharlie has shared with me that he was very loving and affectionate with his XW. She was the distant one. She is the one who strayed in their marriage after 13 yrs.

 

Then he got involved with a woman who didn't want to be touched unless she asked him too..

 

Now he is with me.. I want the loving and affectionate side of him. The last woman was so hard and callus she trained him to be cold and to handle not being able to touch or be touched..

 

I know he has it in him. I have witnessed it in my own experience with him.. But I feel and believe he is afraid to open up to that vulnerability again.

I am not ready to walk away. People give up too easily in relationships now days. We all have our battle scars, baggage and hurts we carry into relationships. Our partners are not perfect either and I think too many people expect them to be perfect.

Just because he has baggage and I have baggage doesn't mean we aren't compatable.

 

Charlie and I have A LOT alot in common... We share very similar morals and values.. Just because we have different ways of expressing our feelings and affection doesn't mean we are complete opposites..

It is our morals and values that matched us. Its who we are that attracted us to one another.

 

We have a hurdle to get over and if we can get over it then I believe it will make us stronger.. I am not asking for all my needs to be met. What good would that do to be coddled and not be given room to learn and grow. I am just asking for him to give me a little affection and tell me how he feels about me once in awhile. NOT all the time..

 

Charlie is not dispensable like a peice of garbage. He is a human being who has issues just like I do. He has needs too just as I do.

 

Successful relationships are about working TOGETHER. to overcome obsticles and obstructions.. We are suppose to be a team working together in this. Its about communication, compromise and understanding. Its not a ME,ME,ME,ME situation. I figured out my needs and I am trying to address them to him. He is has needs I would want and expect him to address them to me..

[Becoming]

HAH! I did this with my most recent ex. He felt like, if I had an issue, well he could have his, too. We're talking about the same thing, RIGHT?

 

um......no.

 

But if you have the emotional intelligence of a crayon, then you wouldn't be able to understand the difference, wouldja?

 

 

The thing is that some people think that their perception of reality IS reality--hence the need to convince us of our wrong perceptions about reality. Which is BS! There's a fundamental philosophical issue there that needs challenged. As you yourself said, what we call reality is really a constellation of perceptions that we put together in certain meaningful patterns based on past experiences. I have my perceptions of reality, you have yours, right? And we know this and respect that about each other (at least I feel respected, and I hope you do, too).

 

But some people think that what they perceive is objective reality for everyone else, too, so that if they don't hold to their view, they're somehow defective when, in fact, they're just a different person with different perceptions and meaningful constellations of those perceptions. I had to argue this philosophical concept with H and insist that my perceptions of reality are just as valid as his, at least initially, and that the whole point of conversation is getting a clearer picture of a shared reality that we can both live in harmoniously--not just convince others to conform to our view of reality. He just didn't get this.

 

Once that concept is established--that my perceptions of reality are just as valid as yours--you can move on, but without that, then there will just be this clash of people assuming we can't ever change or grow to accomodate one another and should just move on to find someone more compatible. (LOL.)

 

Maybe Pada does need to move on (that's for her to decide), but I know this issue can be worked with, PROVIDED that the other person is willing to work with it and you're willing to walk if they don't because it dishonors you as a person to not have your feelings, perceptions considered as valid as someone else's. And this is what I think is really at stake in this situation and why it's such a big deal.

[justagirliegirl]

I definitely would not send the letter. I wasn't able to make it past the first paragraph. Most guys would just freak over such a display of emotions if they even read it.

 

If you really wanted to send him something keep it to one paragraph and just say what you want without a lot of emotion. Yes, I know you said you are very emotional but he isn't and you are writing something you want him to understand so you are writing for him, not you.

 

As for giving up on him, maybe you don't want to do that at this point. I do think he is just showing his true nature of how he really is. As for co-d, I think it is already kicked in in this relationship. This man is clearly an alcoholic and you are doing the broken bird routine trying to fix him up or change him to be the guy you have the image of in your mind. Of course not giving up on a relationship is a worthy thing but sometimes you have to know when something is not going to improve.

 

He is the way he is. Nothing you say or do will make him change. I think you need to ask yourself if this guy stays exactly the same as he is right now forever, can you live with that the next 20 years or so.

 

I only know you here from your posts but you do seem to be a lovely woman and you deserve someone who can show you love.

[basscatcher]

I have possitive news. I will post more later.

I took A_C's advice. It worked. Charlie and I talked last night on the phone. He called me this morning and there is a change in his voice..

 

I pointed out to him it was nice to hear some happiness once again in his voice.. He said thank you..

[Becoming]

Glad to hear it, Pada. :bunny:

 

Look forward to details.

[basscatcher]

Ive been so busy at work this morning I haven't had time to even post. I might get the chance just before lunch break or at lunch break. I'm still coming with the news.

[basscatcher]

OK.. and this is the saga...

Yesterday, I was really deep in my thoughts and feelings about Charlie and I intended to go home and just sit low which I did. I took my son out for supper at Applebees (hmmm, antibiotic-steriod rush...) I text Charlied and let him know where we were and that I had a job offer call. Typically, on Tues evenings he will call and want to meet up somewhere (sometimes Applebee's) so I thought I would give him a heads up to my plans.

 

I didn't hear from him so I attempted to just occupy myself and let him have his space.. I headed for bed around 9pm not hearing from him and so I texted him and said 'Good Night, I pray tomorrow is a better day." And shut my light out and laid in bed for 2 hours. I couldn't sleep. It was so weird not having him call me... He has called me every day except once during the first 2 weeks of our relationship and it was rolling in my head so much and I felt so emotionally uneasy that I said a pray and picked up the phone and called him.. at 11pm.. (he has called me that late.)

 

He answered the phone with a bit of an attitude and I straight up honestly told him; after we said hi in calm mellow gentle voices to one another, that I couldn't sleep. He was on my mind so much it was disturbing my ability to sleep. I told him after last nights tiff and not hearing from him was not settling with me very well.

 

He 'hmmm'd' a bit then started to bring up the night before topic and I asked him to 'stop' and he went silent. In a soft, calm gentle voice I told him that is not the issue. I told him that he went on a tangent venting last night and I couldn't stop him so I let him vent thinking he would feel better once he got all hs frustrations out about the topic that he blew up about. I inforned him by the time he was finished we both were so exhausted that he didn't hear what I needed and had to tell him. I then told him I would like to explain it to him.

 

(Here is where I took Art_Critics words of advice in post #47, 52, 55, and 71..)

His words were simple and direct and he spoke with feeling and honesty and not with his own pain, hurt, or bagage. He spoke directly as a man to me with advice.

 

I in-short explained to Charlie what he vented about was old stuff and it was me digging around trying to figure out what my feelings were trying to tell me and that what he was getting so defensive about is not the problem. I reminded him that when I feel I feel with intensity and extreme deepness that it confuses me. I told him if he had a stomach ache he would want to know why he has it and therefore he will try to figure out what caused his stomach to hurt. I told him that is what I was doing. Tryig to figure out why I was feeling so insecure. I told him plain and simple that he is neglecting me in this relationship.

 

I explained to him this analogy:

 

'Children need nurturing through touch and possitive words to develop healthy and be balanced with themselves in life.'

he replied 'Yes."

 

I said:

"Relationships need that too. If you don't nurture the relationship with touch and possitive words to one another the relationship will be unhealthy and unbalanced. Insecurities and lack of trust will grow."

he replied "Yes."

 

I told him he hasn't been nurturing to me by touching me (showing he cares about me.) and that he doesn't say possitive words to me (speak about how he feels about me.) and I am feeling unbalanced and uncomfortable.

 

He said he understood.

He told me then that his X-Kim has been calling him every few days and has been leaving him voicemails asking why he won't answer when she calls. why can't they be friends, why he wont return her calls. She tells him that she see's him drive by and she wants to talk to him.

 

He told me his plan was to ignor her and hope that she goes away but I personally don't think that is going to happen. I feel he needs to face her and he said he doesn't want too.

 

What is is dealing with internally now is what he should have dealt with BEFORE he got involved with me but since he didn't he said it is hard dealing with the past of her and letting go and wanting to be with me and build with me..

He is on a emotional roller coaster between the loss of hopes, dreams, and 3 years with her and starting new with me.

He told me he DOES NOT want to go back to her. I told him if he wants her then he needs to go to her.. I can't live like this in fear he will fall into puppy mode with her again. He said that is one reason why he hasn't been contacting her..

I told him everytime she calls him and leaves a message it affects him and he agreed it does. That is when I told him he really needs to deal with her or she is going to continue harrassing him and he is going to continue with his emotional roller coaster..

He said he is trying too.

I requested that if he needs space and wont be calling me then I would like for him to warn me so I know he is needing space.. He started a habit with me that I really cherish and enjoy and if he just goes cold turkey without warning I WILL react to it.. He said he would..

 

He told me to loosen up a little because he has a lot going on with all this.

I told him if I knew what was going on with him I wouldn't be so non-understanding. I told him he needs to communicate with me because I can't read minds. He said he will.

He apoligized and asked me to be patient and understanding; He wants to be with me.

 

He said he understood it is hard on me too because I love him and he is still dealing with letting go of her in his life. She is physcially gone so-to-speak but he needs to erradicate her from his soul... Three years with 3 engagements to her is not easy to let go of. He had hopes and dreams with her. They bonded with each others children and now he chose to let all that go so he is learning to accept that life is over and he has an opportunity to move on.

 

I do understand what he is going through because I have done it myself. He asked me to not call me a rebound.. He doesn't believe I am but I think in a way I am. He wanted to move forward before he met me but didn't have the strength to resist her. (SHE IS BEAUTIFUL...!!)

 

So this is where I am now. I understand better what I was feeling and that was his distance because he is dealing with his past of letting go and accepting it wont work and he doesn't want that kind of life.

He is also building with me but his past is still lurking around so it is difficult to be torn between two places.

He wasn't communicating with me what was going on because he was afraid I would totally flip out on him. I asked him to trust me. He said he does.. I said NO.. you trust that I wont cheat on you but you don't trust me with your heart, with your feelings.. I told him to trust me. I reminded him that I too have been where he is at.. It is difficult to try balance two areas of life that parellele. I told him he is so-worth working all this out

with because I have seen how he is with his family, his children, his friends, I have seen how he is on business calls with clients, i have witnessed his public manners, I see how he respects me and doesn't disrespect me. I hear his vocabulary and he doesn't talk replusively. He is a mild mannered man with has patience and is a thinker. He doesn't yell or raise his voice. When he is drunk he is so affectionate and loving towards me (I believe he lets go of his struggles when he is like this and he puts his heart on his sleeve.) He treats my family and friends with respect and never complains too much about the way they are (Dysfunctional and lots of Drama.)

 

He is a good man, He is struggling with healing and growing at the same time. It is not easy if anyone has ever had to make a choice for the better and its hard to give up habits. Ex: Smoking, Drinking, Drugs, Habits, Unhealthy relationships. He is has a relationship with me that he has never had before. I communicate, I give love and affection, I care about how he feels and what he likes and doesn't like. I am not one to order him around or ignor his needs. I am not one to run away from conflict I face to find a resolution to erradicate it so it doesn't come back.

 

He wants me.. but he needs to also heal from the past.

 

I need support and encouragment from my frends, family and even LS'rs so I can stay strong in this. He is worth it to me. He doesn't have to be perfect.. He is not a drug addict, he doesn't drink to oblivion or every single day of the month, he is not physcially abusive nor has he ever verbally abused me. He and I share very similiar morals and values about life, the world, she share similiar interests. We are compatable!! We have this hurdle of Kim and his past with her to deal with and I think that will be the biggest obsticle for now..

 

Anyone who has been in this position please feel free to give me some advice.. I don't need negatives because I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE MY MIND ANYTIME SOON about Charlie..

My choice right now is to attempt to make this work.. It is possible to get through this. If he and I do it together with communication, understanding, patience, and trust in one another. With the support of our family and friends..

[whichwayisup]

If you love him and feel he's worth that extra effort to hang onto, then stick around and don't give up. BUT, with that being said, you are going to have to do some of the legwork too. You can't keep on at him, needing to feel his love and care for you 24/7. At some point you HAVE to trust him and relax, don't focus so much on 'what has he done for me lately to make me feel loved and needed.' I hope you see what I'm saying?

 

Three years with 3 engagements to her is not easy to let go of. He had hopes and dreams with her. They bonded with each others children and now he chose to let all that go so he is learning to accept that life is over and he has an opportunity to move on.

 

Until he deals with this, things in your relationship are going to be as they are now. You feeling unsettled and not sure of what is going to happen. He should have dealt with things BEFORE getting involved with you. That was unfair.

 

AND, he has to face the music, and go talk to her. He owes her that much respect after being engaged to her too. Ofcourse she is going to keep on calling! Unless he actually talks to her and tells her it's over, goodbye and move on, she WILL keep on wondering. She needs closure too, just as he does.

 

I feel bad for the kids, and I'm sure that love/care that is there for them is what also makes it harder.

 

This is hard on you, and will continue to be. He has to do his part to make things good and so do you. Try not to let the bad insecure thoughts take over and also, don't tell him everytime you're having doubts. That he doesn't need to hear, which is why I say you have to trust abit more. Or maybe even detach from him slightly and not be feeling SO intense all the time. You have SO much in your life, he is part of it too, but don't make him your full focus right now until he sorts out his feelings and deals with his ex.

[basscatcher]

If you love him and feel he's worth that extra effort to hang onto, then stick around and don't give up. BUT, with that being said, you are going to have to do some of the legwork too. You can't keep on at him, needing to feel his love and care for you 24/7. At some point you HAVE to trust him and relax, don't focus so much on 'what has he done for me lately to make me feel loved and needed.' I hope you see what I'm saying?

I totally understand and I totally agree..

 

Until he deals with this, things in your relationship are going to be as they are now. You feeling unsettled and not sure of what is going to happen. He should have dealt with things BEFORE getting involved with you. That was unfair.

 

AND, he has to face the music, and go talk to her. He owes her that much respect after being engaged to her too. Ofcourse she is going to keep on calling! Unless he actually talks to her and tells her it's over, goodbye and move on, she WILL keep on wondering. She needs closure too, just as he does.

The day before he and I met she told him that they Couldn't be friends and they shouldn't talk. They agreed mutually that their relationship was over and wasn't going to work out. She says one thing and then turns on a dime. That is the source of all their problems in their relationsihp let alone she is on so many Psycotic drugs to maintain her anxiety, depression, and a variety of other disorders she HAS been diagnosed with.. She is strung out on many perscription drugs and on very high doses of Paxil (I think Charlie said like 1,000 mg). I don't think she is going to back off easily because she is not stable in general. He claims she is stable right now but he doesn't know when she will snap. When she does she will call him 100s of times a day leaving so many msgs on his vm he cant get business msgs. She will drive to his apt and drive all over looking for him in a panic and desperation.. He said this is the longest she has been able to maintain her obsessiveness..

He said last night that if he talks to her it might make her worse. So he is avoiding her. I pray his logic works but I doubt it..

 

I feel bad for the kids, and I'm sure that love/care that is there for them is what also makes it harder.

I can understand the attachment to each others children. I have a Xbf of 4 1/2 yrs where I did more for those kids then he did. They called me Pamma.. They seen me as a mother.

 

This is hard on you, and will continue to be. He has to do his part to make things good and so do you. Try not to let the bad insecure thoughts take over and also, don't tell him everytime you're having doubts. That he doesn't need to hear, which is why I say you have to trust abit more. Or maybe even detach from him slightly and not be feeling SO intense all the time. You have SO much in your life, he is part of it too, but don't make him your full focus right now until he sorts out his feelings and deals with his ex.

Understanding why I feel insecure helps me to cope and know what I'm dealing with. I do understand that I need to go about my life and do the things I enjoy and not depend on him to be apart of them all the time. I also know I need to trust him-which I majority of the time do. I have trust issues about him making smart choices when it comes to her because it is easy to fall back into a unhealthy situation because it is familiar, routine, and habitual. I vent to my mother, best friend, close friend, and in LS about my deepest thoughts and feelings so I don't overwhelm the man. It WOULD only push him away and make him run for the hills,. I asked for people to read my letter yesterday so I could get feed back and sort out my thoughts and feelings and come to terms with the basics of what is important and not to tell him. All of what I write, think and feel are important but I understand for a man it is intense and scary..

 

This is where I NEED support and encouragement from others. So I can maintain and not destroy what I want. HIM..

 

Thank you for your words.. I take them to heart.

[alphamale]

She is strung out on many perscription drugs and on very high doses of Paxil (I think Charlie said like 1,000 mg)..

Its a good thing Charlie is not a physician.....the avg daily dose of Paxil is 20 to 40mg.

[whichwayisup]

You have a good handle on this right now and you're thinking along the right path too.

 

One thing though, neither of you can control his ex and what she does. Only you can control you and Charlie can control Charlie. To sit and worry about the "what if's" will just drive you insane. I can tell you right now, from where I sit, he has NO intention of getting back together with her. Not with her anxiety, depression, OCD, and her acting all crazy. He knows she is wrong for him and they don't have a future together. So, knowing this, letting him deal with the leftover feelings, the care for her, has to happen. I say it again, you are going to have to trust him that he won't take advantage of you and he will leave up to HIS words of not falling for her again. HE knows it's over, yet he feels some sort of responsibility for her because of her condition. That actually is a nice quality of him, to still care about her and her wellbeing. He just can't get involved in her life and her stuff. If anything, he should talk to HER family and let them know what is going on. This woman needs support from her friends, not from him. Any real contact between them will cause confusion and unrealistic expectations in her head. Then she'll never get the idea it is really over.

 

He does have to talk to her, or atleast have a conversation on the phone with her to make it perfectly clear they are over and them keeping intouch is only doing damage, and will continue to do damage.

 

You're welcome and I'm glad to help you!

[Mz. Pixie]

Its a good thing Charlie is not a physician.....the avg daily dose of Paxil is 20 to 40mg.

 

 

This is true.

 

Pada, I hear your cry for support and I will do whatever I can to help. I think I would let him take the lead in the relationship right now. Just be sweet and loving as you can be when you guys hang out and talk.

 

He can see the difference between you and this crazy. But he does need to resolve this apparently. Give him the space to do that.

[basscatcher]

This woman needs support from her friends, not from him. Any real contact between them will cause confusion and unrealistic expectations in her head. Then she'll never get the idea it is really over.

 

This is a problem She has NO family... She has been on her own since she was 14. She basically grew up on her own in the streets. Charlie said she even slept in Telephone booths at one point in her life. She didn't graduate from High School.

 

She hasn't had anyone.. This is the cause for her not having 'good' morals and values and why she has trust issues when it comes to commitment. Most likely the cause of all her Psychological issues also. She didnt have much guidance growing up without parents who were there to love her and nurture her. She would jump from one friends house to another and sleep where she could.. She is in her mid 40s so think back about 30 yrs ago and how the world was? You can see out society wasn't set up to help people. We didn't have the Social Services or Child Sevices we have now.

 

I think because she has no one and she is alone other then who she socializes with (mostly men) he feels like he is all she has but she is so unhealthy she is killing his balance and healthyness in life.

 

He can't be her keeper.. He can't be her saviour. I know he needs to figure this out and let go. All I can do is pray for him and support him and hope he disconnects and moves forward.

[basscatcher]

Its a good thing Charlie is not a physician.....the avg daily dose of Paxil is 20 to 40mg.

 

Nope he isn't a Physician.. He tried to get her to go back for a evaluation but she wouldn't go. She increased her own dosage when she felt it wasn't working.

 

He says her doctor has a on-going refill on her pills and he hasn't stopped it and she just refills it as she needs it. I think her dr is a quack if he doesn't stop this..

 

Charlie said she is so pushy and agressive she intimidates many people. He thinks the dr just doesn't want to deal with her..

 

So I don't know. All I know is what he has told me.

[whichwayisup]

Here's something different...(Just a thought, k!)

 

What about YOU helping him with her. And what I mean by that is, getting her the help she needs. Finding a real good therapist and doing some of the work FOR her that she can't do on her own. And her seeing you with Charlie, in a nice, nonthreatening way COULD help her too. Help her in a sense that he's moved on and what they had is definately over.

 

He can't be her keeper.. He can't be her saviour. I know he needs to figure this out and let go. All I can do is pray for him and support him and hope he disconnects and moves forward.

 

No, he can't. But right now I think he feels responsible for her. The fact she HAS noone, he is feeling guilty of her being alone with her issues and problems. Though, sooner or later HE has to decide to move on and let go. With or without you.

[basscatcher]

Here's something different...(Just a thought, k!)

 

What about YOU helping him with her. And what I mean by that is, getting her the help she needs. Finding a real good therapist and doing some of the work FOR her that she can't do on her own. And her seeing you with Charlie, in a nice, nonthreatening way COULD help her too. Help her in a sense that he's moved on and what they had is definately over.

 

No, he can't. But right now I think he feels responsible for her. The fact she HAS noone, he is feeling guilty of her being alone with her issues and problems. Though, sooner or later HE has to decide to move on and let go. With or without you.

 

Starters. Charlie is DEAD SET against me EVER meeting her. He said it wouldn't be good. There is nothing I can do for her. She is a big girl and she use to have a therapist. She apparently chose not to utilize him. Charlie and I talked about her seeing us together and he said that may not be a good thing for her mentally or emotionally because she is easily unbalanced. If I could help her I would I AM that type of person. (ex: my XH Xgf is one of my closest friends.. because of mutual ground of dealing with him.) Charlie also wants NO contact with her at this time. He is hoping she will just go away. but I think he is dreaming so I guess I need to step back and let him learn a lesson. I warned him already.

She also last he knew had a bf. It doesn't take long for her to find men. She has them on their knees when she being a barfly. Women hate her intensely and Men love her. She is the center of attention and men drool over her.. She has NO female friends.

She is a player in the bar yet unbalanced once involved with someone. She loves attention from men and that is what she thrives off of. Charlie said she is faithful and loyal when she is involved with someone but she is a social butterfly and flirt and the man she is with needs to be confident and accepting of her nature...

YUCK>.. ....

She and I are definetly opposites..