Wife gets furious (and sometimes physically violent) when I ask innocuous questions

[Ladyjane14]

.....if you had a child you loved who had a disease but didn't want to get treated for that disease, would you just abandon the child? Give him/her up for adoption?

 

She's not a child though. And YOU aren't responsible for her behavior. All you can do is select your own behavior.

 

You have a choice about how you allow people to treat you. The old Dr. Philism would seem to apply...'We teach people how to treat us.' All your wife has been learning is that you'll eventually 'get over it'. So there are no real and lasting consequences regarding her poor treatment of you.

 

The choices available to you are limited. You can continue to 'walk on eggshells', trying to enjoy whatever time you have between outbursts. Or...you can set boundaries on the treatment you will accept from her and then ENFORCE them. Even if that means ending the marriage.

[blind_otter]

Phil, I have sympathy for you and your wife. I just got off the phone with my exH and we laughed about how we used to lock horns like a pair of reindeer in a strange power struggle that left us BOTH feeling out of control.

 

Ultimately you need to decide when this has gotten out of control. And anyways, by offering her a choice, you are not abandoning her. You are clearly saying (and maybe you should try communicating about sensitive things through letters, which may help to defuse things) - whether it's right or wrong, the way that you and your W are living has become intolerable to you. You've tried approaching the problem delicately, through various methods, in the hopes of continuing to maintain a relationship with her. SHe has chosen to look everywhere but inside herself to see what has been happening to destroy your bond with her. You are asking her to at least hear what a professional has to say, and that is NOT a huge effort on her part. If she is unable to do this, then she values her pride more than the relationship, thus there is no relationship to try to preserve, as it would be one-sided at best.

 

I am sympathetic because I have anger issues too, but I was an adult about it and have sought help because I could see how I was acting was intolerable to everyone around me. I had reasons for WHY I was the way I was, but that doesn't give me license to BE the way I was.

 

If your W can't get to that point of self-realization, then there is truely nothing else you can do but try to preserve your own sanity.

[Woggle]

I would leave. I can't deal with a woman that acts like a child and that is what she acts like. If I can't deal with a woman on a rational level I would rather not be with her. How much more time do you want to spend living like this?

[carmaenforcer]

blind_otter

 

Sorry to hear about your past. My fiancée has recently opened up and told me of her Mom divorcing her Dad when she was 9 yo., how she kept her from dating and so forced her to date all her guy friends and their friends and lie to her about it, teenage drug and alcohol use, almost being raped while partying with those same "guy friends" (Uhh Duhh), abusive first real boy friend that beat her. I felt so sorry for what she had gone through. I had to remind myself that people that make excuses for their actions are basically defending them and it's until we stop making excuses that we truly admit to our faults and can then correct them.

 

I have seen "The Horse Whisperer", and now that I think of it, our cat does seem to have emotional problems too! Do they have a cat whisperer? j/k

 

Thanx...

 

 

JayKay

 

My fiancée also has some crazy road rage. And like Phil's (OP) wife, my fiancée clams up after her outbursts, during her cooling down period and is instantly rude when asked a simple question. Almost like she's waiting for my mouth to open to say something rude.

It's so funny to me how these women all seem to act the same.

 

Phil

 

Doe's your lady, try to control what you guys watch on TV or listen too in the car radio?

[Guest]

I've been married for about 5 years and am having a really tough time dealing with my wife. Most of the time, she is a sweet, caring and loving person. But every now and then, something triggers an anger outburst, during which she is verbally abusive towards me and occasionally gets physically violent.

Why did you marry this person? You must have something wrong with you. Both of you should visit a psychiatrist. Her, for obvious reasons. You, because you married such a person.

 

Have no children. If you stay married to her, get a vastecomy.

[blind_otter]

I doubt a bitch session is helpful. I mean, my sponsor in AA was telling me that you can sit there and complain, or you can do something about what you're complaining about, and both take about the same amount of effort.

 

It's not that I want sympathy -- but I want people to understand that no one just IS. We are because of what we have been through, what we are in now, and where we see we're going. No one wants to be an evil harpy. I never did. I acted out in this way, because I was extremely f***ed in the head. I choose to be without a partner now because I feel I have no business getting involved with anyone. Not everyone is strong enough to do that, though. I wasn't for many years.

[Becoming]

You know, regardless of what we've gone through in life, we are responsible for what we decide to do with it. While it may be understandable behavior, it's also inexcusible.

 

Put the boundaries down on what you will and will not tolerate and enforce them. When she starts to raise her voice and get angry, tell her once you want to hear what she wants to say but that you can't if she talks in that way to you. If that doesn't calm her down, walk away. If you can't because she blocks the way, call the police.

 

Why do you guys tolerate this behavior? Is it guilt? Love sets limits to protect what is good from what is harmful. There's a difference between love and toleration. She doesn't want to be tolerated; she wants to be loved, which, even though you'd never believe this, means setting and enforcing boundaries to make her feel safe and secure by knowing what the rules are.

[Woggle]

Why do you guys tolerate this behavior? .

 

Men these days are taught that they are wrong no matter what and everything is their fault so they put up with abuse. It is sad how neutered men have become. I think men need to be taught self respect just like women are.

[whichwayisup]

If I could get my wife to go to therapy and the therapist told my wife that she did have an anger problem, my wife would go into denial and say that was conspiring with the therapist against her.

 

This is a HUGE red flag Phil! I'm sorry, but her denying that there isn't a problem is making it worse.

 

You love her, and want her to be well? I have to tell you, she needs a psych checkup. Do not give her a choice, take her to the DR. She is acting paranoid and crazy too.

 

By getting her the help she needs shows how much you love her. By sitting and letting her ruin you, the marriage, herself, and acting out isn't helping. SO what if she gets pissed at you! YOU have to stand up and take on the responsibility right now, she is not mentally fit to make choices. Or that is how you are making it seem to me. I could be wrong, but from what you've said, she is out of control, she needs help and maybe needs to be on some sort of medication to even out her mood swings.

 

Sorry for the tough love. You need to hear this stuff though.

[Becoming]

Men these days are taught that they are wrong no matter what and everything is their fault so they put up with abuse. It is sad how neutered men have become. I think men need to be taught self respect just like women are.

 

I agree. The gender roles have all changed during our lifetime, which means we all have to learn what it means to be selves, not "real men" or "real women" but real people.

[Woggle]

I agree. The gender roles have all changed during our lifetime, which means we all have to learn what it means to be selves, not "real men" or "real women" but real people.

 

I agree but many women feel like they have the right treat men like crap as revenge for whatever other men have done to them. This mentality is all too common so many women abuse their men and think they are being strong and powerful. This is why men should not date feminists. All you will get is drama.

[barfool]

I agree but many women feel like they have the right treat men like crap as revenge for whatever other men have done to them. This mentality is all too common so many women abuse their men and think they are being strong and powerful.

 

Isn't this the way some men behave as well? I don't think it's so much that the roles are reveresed but that women in general are starting to behave in ways that only men used to. I'm not defending this behavior, it's just an observation.

[Woggle]

Isn't this the way some men behave as well? I don't think it's so much that the roles are reveresed but that women in general are starting to behave in ways that only men used to. I'm not defending this behavior, it's just an observation.

 

It's wrong either way but instead of men getting better women are getting worse. I am not so sure this is a good thing.

[Becoming]

Isn't this the way some men behave as well? I don't think it's so much that the roles are reveresed but that women in general are starting to behave in ways that only men used to. I'm not defending this behavior, it's just an observation.

 

Agree. True feminists want what's good for all peopel regardless of the gender roles society tries to strap us into.

[carmaenforcer]

I choose to be without a partner now because I feel I have no business getting involved with anyone.

 

blind_otter, was this realization reached before or after your ExBF choked you out?

I'm not trying to be mean, I was just wanting to know because if it was after then it would prove that violence, although frowned upon, did help you to at least take a closer look at your bad behavior as something that needed to be dealt with in some way.

I mean you really should take responsibility for what you say and do and make a conscious effort to not rage when you get that urge but I guess staying away from other human beings works too. Either way my point is that his action may have saved someone else from having to deal with your rage issues.

I think your ExBF obviously choked you till you passed out not because he wanted to kill you or else he would have held on a little longer but because it was the only way he saw to shut you up and stop the insanity.

 

I personally don't think that physical violence is an answer to relationship issues though, my Dad used to beat my Mom and I've never allowed myself to do that. Besides, all that did was make her a better liar.

I believe the reason why women do torture us men so much with their personalities, emotions and behaviors is because they usually can't match us physically. You make a woman feel threatened physically she will mess you up the only way she can. It's a power struggle thing always has been.

 

When two people love each other and are trying to make a life together they should just treat the other person with the same respect and consideration that they would want for themselves. Unless you resign yourself to just being alone for the rest of your life, we need to remember that we live in a civilization and know that we to, at the very least, be civil with one and other.

[Kenyth]

I agree. The gender roles have all changed during our lifetime, which means we all have to learn what it means to be selves, not "real men" or "real women" but real people.

 

Too many people have codependant tendancies these days. It's an inflated delusional sense of self-control that causes them to believe they can deal with anything that comes their way. It causes you to minimize and ignore the huge red flags normal people would run headlong from screaming and waving their hands in terror. Poor choices in mates is inevitable. Ask one of these folks how many people they dated and initiated a breakup with because of the others personality problems? Most people break up with A LOT of people before choosing their mate, but not the martyr hero codependant.

 

Only at the end, after your love, patience, and health are worn to nubs, do you realize your folly. You can't change people with rational discourse, fair comprimise, or patience. Only truly experiencing loss and pain as regular consequences of bad behavior will get the stubborn to change. A single person is incapable of doing what's necessary. The most effective and helpful thing you can do for both of you is leave them in the beginning. Do it as soon as you see the problem and let them know why.

 

How do I know all this? I'm a card carrying Hero Martyr who, between his parents, his ex-wife, and his current wife, (none of which gets along with the others) currently leads a fairly hellish existence. I could blame it on everyone else and even be right about it, but the truth of the matter is that I'm a poor relationship consumer. My parents I can't control, but when it comes to spouses, I bought lemons. Picking spouses is strictly "Caveat Emptor", and don't ever forget that. If you test drive them on your life highway and they don't run right, don't buy it anyway and think you'll just fix it later.

[Phil]

This is a HUGE red flag Phil! I'm sorry, but her denying that there isn't a problem is making it worse.

 

You love her, and want her to be well? I have to tell you, she needs a psych checkup. Do not give her a choice, take her to the DR. She is acting paranoid and crazy too.

 

By getting her the help she needs shows how much you love her. By sitting and letting her ruin you, the marriage, herself, and acting out isn't helping. SO what if she gets pissed at you! YOU have to stand up and take on the responsibility right now, she is not mentally fit to make choices. Or that is how you are making it seem to me. I could be wrong, but from what you've said, she is out of control, she needs help and maybe needs to be on some sort of medication to even out her mood swings.

 

Sorry for the tough love. You need to hear this stuff though.

 

I know it's tough. How can I get her to go for help if she just flat out refuses? I once gave her doctor a note describing the depression my wife had told me about. But even though the doctor did ask some questions about how she was feeling, she told the doctor everything was fine.

 

When I talk to her relatives about it, they talk to her. It then comes back to me as if I'm the bad guy because I don't upkeep the house to my wife's standards. But what's worse? Not doing the dishes and not vacuuming the carpet or throwing violent anger outbursts?

[Phil]

You know, regardless of what we've gone through in life, we are responsible for what we decide to do with it. While it may be understandable behavior, it's also inexcusible.

 

Put the boundaries down on what you will and will not tolerate and enforce them. When she starts to raise her voice and get angry, tell her once you want to hear what she wants to say but that you can't if she talks in that way to you. If that doesn't calm her down, walk away. If you can't because she blocks the way, call the police.

 

Why do you guys tolerate this behavior? Is it guilt? Love sets limits to protect what is good from what is harmful. There's a difference between love and toleration. She doesn't want to be tolerated; she wants to be loved, which, even though you'd never believe this, means setting and enforcing boundaries to make her feel safe and secure by knowing what the rules are.

 

I've told her that anger outbursts will not be tolerated and that there will be consequences. I've administered consequences like not giving her a hand around the house, telling her relatives about her outbursts and not giving her certain financial support that she would otherwise get. Then she says I'm selfish and evil because of these actions I took. There just seems to be no winning.

[Phil]

 

Phil

 

Doe's your lady, try to control what you guys watch on TV or listen too in the car radio?

 

Yes. She will turn the TV on to something she likes that I care nothing about. Then when I select the channel (when we're both watching), I try to select a channel that we'll both like. Then she says I'm selfish because I'm choosing a channel that I like.

 

Radio? When it's my turn to play a CD in the car, I choose something I think she'll like. Or I show her my selection and ask her which one she wants to hear. When it's her turn to play a CD in the car, she gives 0% consideration to what I like. Then she turns the volume up way too loud. And if I ask for the volume to be turned down (or turn it down myself), she throws an outburst and often turns the volume up even louder.

[Phil]

Why did you marry this person? You must have something wrong with you. Both of you should visit a psychiatrist. Her, for obvious reasons. You, because you married such a person.

 

Have no children. If you stay married to her, get a vastecomy.

 

I have already seen more than one therapist. We tried to get my wife to come in with me, but she wouldn't go. One therapist I saw said under no circumstances should I have children with my wife.

[whichwayisup]

She is in denial about her depression...Somehow you all have to confront her together, that way it doesn't come all back to you.

 

Get a cleaning lady to come once every 2 weeks. Problem solved!

[Phil]

She is in denial about her depression...Somehow you all have to confront her together, that way it doesn't come all back to you.

You mean her doctor and myself? The medical facility has told me they can't force my wife to get treatment. They say my wife has to seek it out on her own.

[d'Arthez]

This is a totally unhealthy situation, and because she does not perceive there is a problem, she will not change her behavior. And that is already assuming she can, which seems doubtful. If she perceives there to be a problem, it is in the external world, namely you, and whomever and whatever displeases her. We all know that such a perception of things is highly skewed, highly unhealthy, and not beneficial at all in the situation. But whether this is a conscious attempt, is debatable.

Still, if she does have psychiatric / psychological issues, that is not a "get free out of jail"-card. And all the understanding you can show as her husband would not get her cured.

In fact, staying makes you doubt everything you do. "Did I put the right CD in? Is this the show she likes most, that is now broadcast on the radio?" etc. But what about your life?

 

The second issue is, is that she cannot be forced to be helped. That is a very frustrating thing, but she can do as she pleases as long as she does not harm others. You, being the spouse, "simply" will have to wait till she molests you in quite major ways. It sucks if laws hopelessly fail in these situations. I would not recommend waiting.

 

The only option you seem to have is to leave.

[littlekitty]

It would be interesting for you to videotape one of these outbursts..........the play it and show her what she looks like when she is out of control!

 

Ahhhhh exactly what was occuring to me as I was reading. If she denies the problem, can you not show her the evidence.

 

Honey... this is YOU. This is what YOU look like when you 'rage', this is what I deal with on a regular basis. Can you watch this and tell me that there isn't a problem?

 

Surely that might help? Because if she doesn't admit the issue, she's never going to get the help.

[d'Arthez]

She is more likely to blame her husband. Claiming that it is a set-up to make her look bad, and evil, and all that, littlekitty. Ill people rationalize and make excuses too, just as much as healthy people.