do I need to be more patient?

[Gaeta]

19 minutes ago, Chicken Dinner said:

just have a different definition of initiative than you do. Your definition involves reading a persons mind to anticipate their needs before they ask. I

Is there something preventing you from being able to anticipate people's need? 

If you see your mother struggling on your front steps are you going to help her or you will wait that she ask you for help? 

[Chicken Dinner]

29 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Do you want to be in the relationship or do you want to be right?   Thing is, this problem is going to keep cropping up in future workplaces and relationships because observing what's needed is a basic skill.

Have you heard the term "chivalry"?  To be clear, I believe both men and women can and should be chivalrous in a relationship and in life - observing when another needs help and just getting in there.  It seems your girlfriend doesn't want a lot but she does need you to be chivalrous on occasion.

What's stopping you from observing when your help is required?

I noticed that her building management hasn't gotten around to fixing the stove. I bought her a countertop burner so she can cook in there until they fix the appliance instead of continuing to order takeout.  

The dog pissed on the floor. I went out and got some floor cleaner specific to hardwood flooring, some rubber gloves and sponges to soak up the piss. 

So I have stepped in when it was clear she wasn't getting something done, but with this moving thing she has asked for very limited assistance, refused more help, she has mostly vented about it. 

Edited April 26 by Chicken Dinner

[Els]

18 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

That's not how men's minds work: you need to explicitly tell us what you need or it won't occur to us. We will just assume you wanna be left alone to handle it. 

This is correct in some situations, but IME not in situations that require physical strength. I don't know about you, but most men that I've encountered have definitely taken the initiative to help with carrying heavy stuff without being asked. I'm not even just talking about romantic relationships, but also platonic friends or even strangers.

Your gf should have asked, to be fair, but it's really not common to need to ask.

[Gebidozo]

18 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

That's not how men's minds work: you need to explicitly tell us what you need or it won't occur to us. We will just assume you wanna be left alone to handle it. 

That’s just a convenient excuse for not anticipating the needs of your partner.

I’m a man and it wouldn’t even occur to me to not help my lady with anything related to carrying, lifting, moving, etc.

[Lotsgoingon]

 

I don't mean to shame you. All of us have blind spots.  Decades about when the 9/11 attacks occurred (the only event in my adult lifetime really that brought the whole national to a halt), I was visiting my parents and did NOT call my gf. She later was so mad at me for not calling to check on her or just bond with her at this frightening time. That was a blind spot I had. A huge one! Today, of course I call! Wouldn't have to think about it--calling would be one of my first instincts. 

One question to ask yourself: do you really like this woman? I know you like her somewhat, but I mean do you REALLY REALLY like her? If you don't have that deep affection for her--and joy in her presence--it's easier to keep some distance. 

I know this may sound unfair, but there is a chance that deep down she is quite disappointed in you. Or given her insecurity revealed by her refusal to demand more help, there's also a chance that she feels you don't really like her very much because if you did (according to this thinking) you would be over there helping her with your manly physical strengths. 

A point to keep in mind is that under stress, a lot of people shut down and ironically become too insecure to ask for help they badly need and want. People under stress often don't think well. That's why friends step in to help--friends don't just "offer" help. BTW: lots of ailing older parents are like this—reluctant to admit they need help even when things are bad. My parents were seriously struggling for months before I finally realized it. They didn't tell me that my mom was leaving pots on the stomach and burning things and could no longer remember if she took her medications. My father was spending all kinds of time in bed (depressed) --but he hadn't told me that. But when I visited them, I saw what was going on and I stepped in! And never looked back, never asked them again to "tell me" when they need help. 

Asking for help takes a lot of inner security that some people just don't have when under stress. 

[Chicken Dinner]

2 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

 

I don't mean to shame you. All of us have blind spots.  Decades about when the 9/11 attacks occurred (the only event in my adult lifetime really that brought the whole national to a halt), I was visiting my parents and did NOT call my gf. She later was so mad at me for not calling to check on her or just bond with her at this frightening time. That was a blind spot I had. A huge one! Today, of course I call! Wouldn't have to think about it--calling would be one of my first instincts. 

One question to ask yourself: do you really like this woman? I know you like her somewhat, but I mean do you REALLY REALLY like her? If you don't have that deep affection for her--and joy in her presence--it's easier to keep some distance. 

I know this may sound unfair, but there is a chance that deep down she is quite disappointed in you. Or given her insecurity revealed by her refusal to demand more help, there's also a chance that she feels you don't really like her very much because if you did (according to this thinking) you would be over there helping her with your manly physical strengths. 

A point to keep in mind is that under stress, a lot of people shut down and ironically become too insecure to ask for help they badly need and want. People under stress often don't think well. That's why friends step in to help--friends don't just "offer" help. BTW: lots of ailing older parents are like this—reluctant to admit they need help even when things are bad. My parents were seriously struggling for months before I finally realized it. They didn't tell me that my mom was leaving pots on the stomach and burning things and could no longer remember if she took her medications. My father was spending all kinds of time in bed (depressed) --but he hadn't told me that. But when I visited them, I saw what was going on and I stepped in! And never looked back, never asked them again to "tell me" when they need help. 

Asking for help takes a lot of inner security that some people just don't have when under stress. 

This is most ridiculous gaslighting I've ever heard. Can't believe you actually typed it out. 

Edited April 26 by Chicken Dinner

[Lotsgoingon]

Wow, I'm sorry you see my response as gaslighting. Sounds like you feel we are all unfairly attacking you. 

[Chicken Dinner]

10 minutes ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Wow, I'm sorry you see my response as gaslighting. Sounds like you feel we are all unfairly attacking you. 

It really is. Questioning whether I even like this girl is going way overboard/crossing a boundary. Just like the advice I see constantly on here where people are telling others to end their relationship. This is one problematic message board. It's full of outdated sexist tropes (there will be sympathy and encouragement here, but it's almost exclusively reserved for female posters), gaslighting and negativity. 

Edited April 26 by Chicken Dinner

[smackie9]

21 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

Next you'll tell me it's the woman's job to do all the cooking and cleaning. Actually, I think you might say it's that man's job to do that too. 

It would have been the gentlemanly thing to do yes. 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

It's full of outdated sexist tropes

You saying that men are unable to figure out what help a woman needs is a perfect example of this.   People in glass houses....

[introverted1]

17 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

This is one problematic message board. It's full of outdated sexist tropes

You come to this board periodically, sometimes saying you're a woman and other times that you're a man, and make this or a similar accusation each time. Why bother posting when you aren't honest about yourself or willing to provide full context for the many relationship problems you have?

[ExpatInItaly]

20 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

You come to this board periodically, sometimes saying you're a woman and other times that you're a man

This. 

We don't even have a clear picture of who you are, OP, because you change you stories a lot. 

Irony is grand. 

[Els]

I'm not sure what sort of response you're looking for, OP. "Wow, how awful of your gf of one year to expect you to be her shoulder to cry on and her supporter. She's not really going through that much in her life - moving apartments and financial stress while suffering from anxiety shouldn't be an excuse for her not having much energy to be 'fun' around you. You're right that your happiness is the only thing that matters. Just cut her loose and be free of the drama"?

You asked a question that basically everyone was unanimous on. That's actually really, REALLY rare here. But of course, it doesn't fit with your self-centered worldview, so it's "gaslighting".

This is your 3rd account now, isn't it?

[glows]

Could it be that the recent events causing you to feel like you’re in the “supportive role” has triggered some unpleasant memories from past relationships? It’s clear to me how much you care about her but what I’m hearing , after rereading your first post, is that it may be causing you a bit of anxiety from past relationships. 

The reason I say this is you are trying your best but seem to feel overwhelmed. You made it clear you’re not questioning your rl but you’re trying to understand why you feel drained. To answer your first post’s final question (right at the bottom): yes it does take time. Just self care and be listening ear. Take initiative where appropriate like you already have and stay positive. This will pass. 

How is the job search going? Can you explain more about how that would work where you get a job in another city, sell your house and move there and she moves in with you? Is she aware of your plans and what does she think of moving to another city? A lot can happen between now and then. Did she sign a one year rental lease? 

[glows]

And her bday is next month. Any exciting plans? That should be a nice break. Im sure things would have settled by then a little more.

[Mrin]

OP: there's some really good advice in this thread and I hope that at some point you will set aside your defensiveness and let the advice about being a male partner in a committed relationship sink in. 

All that being said, I wanted to address your original point: yeah it can be tough to be the emotional support for your relationship partner when they are going through a time of crisis. It seems like it is always about their crisis and them. For days, weeks even months. And I know you probably feel like there's no room for "you" and what's going on in your life. It's just their never ending drama.

I wish I could tell you some secret to make it easier to be in that role. But it is your role to provide that support or just to be that safe place for your partner to vent. I know for me what I try to do is 1) get out of fixer mode and 2) try to make it our problem or our crisis rather than hers alone. Sometimes that's not possible... And sometimes you just have to muscle through it. One handy piece of advice - be the person you would want her to be if the roles were reversed.

Edited April 28 by Mrin

[Chicken Dinner]

3 hours ago, Mrin said:

OP: there's some really good advice in this thread and I hope that at some point you will set aside your defensiveness and let the advice about being a male partner in a committed relationship sink in. 

I don't subscribe to that type of feminist ideology -- it's the man's job to this or that. Feminists only seem to believe in theories about gender roles when it works for them. If I had come on here and said that it's the woman's job to do the cooking and cleaning, there'd be an uproar and gaslighting.  

Quote

All that being said, I wanted to address your original point: yeah it can be tough to be the emotional support for your relationship partner when they are going through a time of crisis. It seems like it is always about their crisis and them. For days, weeks even months. And I know you probably feel like there's no room for "you" and what's going on in your life. It's just their never ending drama.

I wish I could tell you some secret to make it easier to be in that role. But it is your role to provide that support or just to be that safe place for your partner to vent. I know for me what I try to do is 1) get out of fixer mode and 2) try to make it our problem or our crisis rather than hers alone. Sometimes that's not possible... And sometimes you just have to muscle through it. One handy piece of advice - be the person you would want her to be if the roles were reversed.

That's how I'm feeling exactly, @Marin. You seem to see where I'm coming from here. Like, when you dealing with your partner's crisis for a long time it can start to feel like the relationship is one-sided in those times. 

Edited April 28 by Chicken Dinner

[Chicken Dinner]

4 hours ago, glows said:

Could it be that the recent events causing you to feel like you’re in the “supportive role” has triggered some unpleasant memories from past relationships? It’s clear to me how much you care about her but what I’m hearing , after rereading your first post, is that it may be causing you a bit of anxiety from past relationships. 

That's a good point. It could very well be. The caregiver role is just something I'm used to playing in past relationships and it kinda gets old. It starts to feel like the relationship is one-sided after a long time dealing with that. 

Quote

 

The reason I say this is you are trying your best but seem to feel overwhelmed. You made it clear you’re not questioning your rl but you’re trying to understand why you feel drained. To answer your first post’s final question (right at the bottom): yes it does take time. Just self care and be listening ear. Take initiative where appropriate like you already have and stay positive. This will pass. 

 

I appreciate that advice @glows. Other users should take note: instead of attacking me from the feminist perspective, you actually listened to what I had to say and offered understanding and advice. You seem like a good person. Yeah, I think the reason I'm feeling overwhelmed is trying my best and trying to be patient. 

Quote

How is the job search going? Can you explain more about how that would work where you get a job in another city, sell your house and move there and she moves in with you? Is she aware of your plans and what does she think of moving to another city? A lot can happen between now and then. Did she sign a one year rental lease? 

Yes, it's something we've talked about for some time. The plan would be that I would move there and I would either buy out her one-year lease, or she would serve out the lease and join me in another city. Neither one of us really like the state we live and we both wanna go. 

Edited April 28 by Chicken Dinner

[Chicken Dinner]

4 hours ago, Mrin said:

I know for me what I try to do is 1) get out of fixer mode and 2) try to make it our problem or our crisis rather than hers alone

This stood out to me. In my day-job I am a problem solver all day, and maybe I bring thats same approach to my relationship. Like, when my partner vents to me, the first thing I do is try to recommend ways to solve the problem. But maybe that is not what my partner needs/is looking for and it just end up making be feel drained being in fixer mode. Maybe she just wants somebody to vent to and that would make me feel less frustrated. 

[basil67]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:42 AM, Chicken Dinner said:

I noticed that her building management hasn't gotten around to fixing the stove. I bought her a countertop burner so she can cook in there until they fix the appliance instead of continuing to order takeout.  

The dog pissed on the floor. I went out and got some floor cleaner specific to hardwood flooring, some rubber gloves and sponges to soak up the piss. 

So you CAN anticipate when someone needs help!  This is exactly the type of support we're talking about....seeing a need and actioning it

Why did you say that you (and other men) can't anticipate a partner's needs?

Edited April 28 by basil67

[Gaeta]

3 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

Like, when you dealing with your partner's crisis for a long time it can start to feel like the relationship is one-sided in those times. 

This is not *at all* how you presented the situation in your original story. There was no mention of you being the only one offering moral support and your relationship felt one sided. Your entire story revolved around this one time moving to a new apartment and the stress related to it.

[Chicken Dinner]

16 minutes ago, basil67 said:

So you CAN anticipate when someone needs help!  This is exactly the type of support we're talking about....seeing a need and actioning it

Why did you say that you (and other men) can't anticipate a partner's needs?

It seems I forgot to mention all the things I was actually doing to help out. My post was about feeling drained from being the supportive role. 

[Gaeta]

26 minutes ago, Chicken Dinner said:

This doesn't change my story one bit. You just weren't listening and went on the feminist attack. 

I am the woman that moved appliances and mattresses under a beating sun for an entire day to help her bf. You can't pin any feminist attack on me. 

Anyway, it's only one year dating. A few times people have asked you if you were in love with this women, you never answered so there lays your answer. You're not happy, it's just dating, move on. 

Edited April 28 by Gaeta

[basil67]

38 minutes ago, Chicken Dinner said:

It seems I forgot to mention all the things I was actually doing to help out. My post was about feeling drained from being the supportive role. 

So why did you spend so much time arguing that you need to be told what to do by both bosses and girlfriend...and that all men are incapable of anticipating the needs of another....when it's patently untrue?   You talk of feminist agenda, but I'm a woman defending men against your broad, negative assertions about other men.  If you want a thread to stay on track, stay on point and don't make stuff up.

That said, if everyone is right about you being the other Chicken Dinner, then you're non-binary right?  So perhaps you have the physique of a small woman and don't actually have the strength to be lifting heavy boxes...and so it makes sense that you didn't just automatically start doing it.   In this case, a great way to help would have been to find some big strong friends or hire a removalist. 

Lastly, I know you were feeling drained supporting her, but taking a load off her would have been a way to help her feel more supported.  It doesn't all have to be about listening.

Edited April 28 by basil67

[Els]

20 hours ago, Chicken Dinner said:

don't subscribe to that type of feminist ideology -- it's the man's job to this or that. Feminists only seem to believe in theories about gender roles when it works for them. If I had come on here and said that it's the woman's job to do the cooking and cleaning, there'd be an uproar and gaslighting.  

Oh for chrissakes. That's like saying that a man is being sexist for expecting his wife to carry the child when they both want biological kids instead of getting a uterus transplant and doing it himself, isn't it? 🙄 The fact is that no gender is "inherently better" at cooking or cleaning, but bodies that were born male are generally physically stronger, and bodies that were born male are generally unable to carry a pregnancy. Not in all cases, but in the majority. Acknowledging those physical differences has nothing whatsoever to do with gender roles or feminism.

Also, just so you know, you're the only person dissing men here. Nobody in this thread other than you seems to think that being born with a penis automatically makes someone incapable of doing kind things for their partner without being asked.

 

Edited April 29 by Els