Perspective

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

Of course it is.  You have no experience because you have made choices at every turn not to have experience.    It's not a passive condition.   

You right I refuse to date people I do not find attractive.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Lack of experience won’t be a problem for the right woman - but you need to show up to make it happen. You need to pursue someone who is available and genuinely interested in dating you. You need to express your interest in a genuine and obvious manner. And, you will need to present yourself as someone of value - such that the other individual will be willing to overlook your lack of experience because they have a greater interest in getting to know you - they appreciate the person that you are (ie. your intelligence, your sense of humour, your kindness, etc…) and they enjoy how they feel when they spend time with you.

That’s how dating works… It’s not simply - I’m going to scroll the internet in search of a model who can hold an interesting conversation and then wait for her to come to me - because she can somehow sense that I’m a good guy who is kind and loyal and would be a good partner for her. Women will pass you over every day if this is your approach to dating.

The fact that you have no experience in a relationship is simply the most overt indication that something is off. It is definitely a red flag - and rightly so. It could indicate any number of things - either your expectations are unreasonable, or you lack the confidence to take a risk/date, or you don’t know how to relate to another person in a social/romantic sense, or any combination of reasons. Depending on the reason, it may/may not affect your prospects… But, for the right woman, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a dealbreaker.

Very sensible advice, thank you. The issue of course is who would choose me over someone with experience? Probably someone without experience themselves, probably someone who has few options and probably someone I would not be attracted to.

Frankly people I want to date have no interest in me so it's a never ending cycle. Expressing obvious interest is a problem when I know these people are unlikely to be interested. I just end up looking stupid. There is also not much value to be found unfortunately in a dating scenario but there is more value as a friend.

Confidence I have basically none when it comes to dating, it's been eroded away over the years. I am trying to find some but when there are no viable mutually interested people it's very difficult. Add in when I do find someone I like, they are never ever interested, again they have better options.

At the end of the day I put myself in the eyes of the other person and it's difficult to make a case for myself, no matter what I try or what value I try bring. The only value I really have is that of a loyal friend.

 

[SoulCat]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You right I refuse to date people I do not find attractive.

And round and round and round we go....

 

[Weezy1973]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Confidence I have basically none when it comes to dating, it's been eroded away over the years.

So you’re saying you used to be confident when it comes to dating and it has eroded over the years? How long ago was it that you were confident when it comes to dating? 

[BaileyB]

 

Frankly people I want to date have no interest in me so it's a never ending cycle.

Clearly. 
 

 

Expressing obvious interest is a problem when I know these people are unlikely to be interested.

That goes without saying.
 

 

At the end of the day I put myself in the eyes of the other person and it's difficult to make a case for myself

Nobody else is going to see any value in you if you do not see it already yourself. 

 

 

 

The only value I really have is that of a loyal friend.

Except, you are not. You present yourself as a friend but you have your own agenda. And, when the woman typically learns about your agenda that’s usually the end of the friendship -

[ZA Dater]

16 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Clearly. 
 

That goes without saying.
 

Nobody else is going to see any value in you if you do not see it already yourself. 

 

 

Except, you are not. You present yourself as a friend but you have your own agenda. And, when the woman typically learns about your agenda that’s usually the end of the friendship -

Which is fine because it's just more rejection because of a lack of attraction. Or it ends when they have no further use for me.

Who do you suppose would actually want to date an inexperienced guy with no relationship history? Certainly none of the people I find attractive.

[Wiseman2]

48 pages.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The only value I really have is that of a loyal friend.

You're only a loyal friend if the person is female, attractive, athletic, smart, can talk politics and world affairs etc.  But this isn't true friendship. It's imaginary dating where you bask in the light of her attractiveness and company

I believe you have no idea what loyal friendship consists of. 

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Who do you suppose would actually want to date an inexperienced guy with no relationship history? Certainly none of the people I find attractive.

Obviously.  So why do you keep complaining when you know that your own choices are the cause of the situation.  Either change your ways or accept it and stop complaining

[Weezy1973]

And let’s not gloss over the false narrative OP, that you don’t have any relationship experience. That’s not true anymore - you have relationship experience. So you can’t use that as an excuse that you can’t attract the women you want anymore. 

[basil67]

36 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

And let’s not gloss over the false narrative OP, that you don’t have any relationship experience. That’s not true anymore - you have relationship experience. So you can’t use that as an excuse that you can’t attract the women you want anymore. 

While it's true that OP does now have relationship experience and he's lying when he says he doesn't, it was with someone who wasn't as attractive as he wants.  I'm sure she was perfectly presentable, but it's true that the women he really wants aren't seeing him as boyfriend material.  They look at OP in the same way that OP looks at all the other women he wouldn't lower himself to date.

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Which is fine because it's just more rejection because of a lack of attraction. Or it ends when they have no further use for me.

The bolded aren't women who you were dating.   Instead, you were volunteering to work for them accepting their company as payment.   Of course they will go their own way when the job is done.  Pretty much everyone goes their own way when the professional has done their job.   Besides, I thought you said something about how you like to be helpful and useful.  

If you're going to spend your time giving someone professional assistance, either get paid or consider it a momentary thing you've done.  But doing this thing for free does not entitle you to their ongoing friendship.  

Edited May 2, 2024 by basil67

[NuevoYorko]

8 hours ago, SoulCat said:

And round and round and round we go....

 

I wonder why the OP is lonely and has few dates?

Oh yeah.  

1) hardly any woman on earth attains the standards he sets for them to possibly be worthy. 

2) he doesn't believe in getting to know anyone who is is not objectively a "10" 

3) also, he won't ask out these gorgeous supermodel types because he is sure he will be rejected.

It's all so simple ... I wonder how OP and the rest of us manage to keep regurgitating it throughout hundreds, no - THOUSANDS!!! of posts.  

And yet, it almost always remains exactly the same.  

Groundhog day forever.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Or it ends when they have no further use for me.

More about doing free stuff.  Your experience of having them disappear after being given your help for free is something that EVERYONE who does freebies has experienced.  The only thing you can rightfully expect when it comes to doing work for another person is either money or skill exchange (a job they can do for you in return) and you must negotiate this up front.  

While it may be nice to have their company during the job, they will go back to their own busy lives when the job is done.  The only time you'd expect them to stay in contact afterwards is if they were already a good friend before you did the job.

It also sounds like you meet with them in cafes or restaurants.  Please don't tell me that you pay for their food and drinks when you are already doing the job for free.  They should be buying your food. 

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

Obviously.  So why do you keep complaining when you know that your own choices are the cause of the situation.  Either change your ways or accept it and stop complaining

With respect I can't find people who are not attractive to be attractive. I'd hardly say choice is involved here, if anything the problem is a lack of attraction which leads to a lack of choice.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

More about doing free stuff.  Your experience of having them disappear after being given your help for free is something that EVERYONE who does freebies has experienced.  The only thing you can rightfully expect when it comes to doing work for another person is either money or skill exchange (a job they can do for you in return) and you must negotiate this up front.  

While it may be nice to have their company during the job, they will go back to their own busy lives when the job is done.  The only time you'd expect them to stay in contact afterwards is if they were already a good friend before you did the job.

It also sounds like you meet with them in cafes or restaurants.  Please don't tell me that you pay for their food and drinks when you are already doing the job for free.  They should be buying your food. 

 

I never make other people pay, at best it's split the bill or mostly I just pay. Nobody will understand why I do this so yeah, I guess it's just nice to have the company. The other thing is I can just be me, there is never an expectation of anything else from my side, sad as it is I know I have no chance with these people. What I can do is project as much confidence as I can which is nice and perhaps on some level just think "what if".

Again I far prefer this to meeting someone off a dating app where I already know I won't be interested because there is no physical attraction. For years I went on dates I should not have to try play the numbers game and give the benefit of that doubt as well as to try interact and see if there was any sort of interest. I'd never advocate people do this, it's a monumental waste of time.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

 

2) he doesn't believe in getting to know anyone who is is not objectively a "10" 

 

Actually not correct. I am not after 10s but I am actually interested in people who look after themselves. If you had seen the options I had on dating sites you'd see why I am really not interested in any of them.

[basil67]

41 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I never make other people pay, at best it's split the bill or mostly I just pay. Nobody will understand why I do this so yeah, I guess it's just nice to have the company. The other thing is I can just be me, there is never an expectation of anything else from my side, sad as it is I know I have no chance with these people. What I can do is project as much confidence as I can which is nice and perhaps on some level just think "what if".

All this is fine, but do you know you're out of line getting all bitter when they don't want a relationship or friendship with you?  You're there to do a job and refusing payment doesn't mean they should give you further attention when the job is done

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

All this is fine, but do you know you're out of line getting all bitter when they don't want a relationship or friendship with you?  You're there to do a job and refusing payment doesn't mean they should give you further attention when the job is done

Agree. The point here is I am good enough for that but not good enough for anything else. Why do you think I look at everything as a transaction.

Most of the time it's me volunteering to help in some way, because I can and yea inevitably I find the person pleasant and thru actually give me the time of day.

Someone asked why my confidence is low, here is a good example, I go walking yesterday, see someone who I greet, not only she does not greet she actually looks away. Water off a duck's back but it's telling.

[ZA Dater]

I have decided to cut off all contact with the latest person who interests me. Clearly she isn't interested, which is inevitable really and I am more angry with myself for ever believing I had any sort of chance at all. 

Likewise the very attractive events lady I took an interest in.

As I have to deal with a family members poor health I am reminded there will eventually be a time where I'll land up completely alone and I need to start paying that price.

[basil67]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

Agree. The point here is I am good enough for that but not good enough for anything else. 

You're being ridiculous.  They needed a job done and you have the skillset.  It was never about romance or friendship.  

Just now, ZA Dater said:

Most of the time it's me volunteering to help in some way, because I can and yea inevitably I find the person pleasant and thru actually give me the time of day.

And that's fine if you don't resent doing it.  But you're here with unrealistic expectations that a favour should result in a friendship or romance.

Just now, ZA Dater said:

I go walking yesterday, see someone who I greet, not only she does not greet she actually looks away. Water off a duck's back but it's telling.

It's telling of what?   If someone doesn't respond to a hello, it's not about you.  They are probably having a bad day, or their dog just died, or they are lost in their own world.  Or if she is attractive, she's found that not engaging with strangers helps stop unwanted advances. 

Do you also greet strangers who are male or unattractive women?

 

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

You're being ridiculous.  They needed a job done and you have the skillset.  It was never about romance or friendship.  

And that's fine if you don't resent doing it.  But you're here with unrealistic expectations that a favour should result in a friendship or romance.

It's telling of what?   If someone doesn't respond to a hello, it's not about you.  They are probably having a bad day, or their dog just died, or they are lost in their own world.  Or if she is attractive, she's found that not engaging with strangers helps stop unwanted advances. 

Do you also greet strangers who are male or unattractive women?

 

It's exactly why I can't be bothered to engage with random people. It happens most of the time. Not that cold approach dating would ever work with me.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am reminded there will eventually be a time where I'll land up completely alone and I need to start paying that price.

That's the price you pay for not even wanting friendship with women who aren't beautiful and with men in general.  When you look down on so many people, of course you will end up alone.  This is all on you and your determination that only beautiful women are worth your time

[basil67]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's exactly why I can't be bothered to engage with random people. It happens most of the time. Not that cold approach dating would ever work with me.

If by "random people" you mean beautiful women, of course ignoring you (and the other men who greet her) will happen most of the time.  She's sick and tired of it and you're just another annoying man who's objectifying her.   Don't make this about you when she's the one who's being bothered by strangers far too often.  I know a beautiful young woman who gets greeted and approached by men (young and old) multiple times a day...she's sick and tired of it but you don't seem to have empathy for her.   Instead, you make it all about you

Try saying 'good morning' to an old lady as you walk past.  She's likely feeling invisible these days and it will make her day to be acknowledged.   

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

That's the price you pay for not even wanting friendship with women who aren't beautiful and with men in general.  When you look down on so many people, of course you will end up alone.  This is all on you and your determination that only beautiful women are worth your time

Then I'll pay the price for sticking to what I want. I guess people who date don't settle because they eventually fall in love with someone but for those who struggle to generate any mutual attraction, my guess is many get so desperate they just accept whoever will have them. Am I wrong?