Perspective

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, FredEire said:

They may not give a reason, sometimes they will. If you have a bit of social intuition you can usually take a good guess why, be it recently jilted, fear of committment, low attraction, etc etc.

It may also sometimes be something you did or said on the date, if this is the case you can learn that this may not be a good approach and avoid it next time. If the issue was more something on their end you can learn to see the red flags and avoid it or cut things off early when it's necessary.

I suspect you aren't able to see these signs so ascribe every rejection to not being good enough for the sexual marketplace and or not having some intangible attributes in general, as this is an easy solution, rather than looking at the specific case.

Ok so it amounts to nothing more than a guess. Not sure what can be learnt from a guess but anyway. Never have I been given reasons barring the inexperience and lack of chemistry but who really cares nobody is entitled to critique anyway. Or am I suppose to go and think what it might have been I said or did, this is a total waste of time and once again amounts to a guess.

Not matching on OLD, well that is easy its just being plain ugly, not sure what what improvements I should then implement.

Absolutely true but I suspect its all down to being ugly, its the easiest way to attribute being rejected. If I were good enough I would not be rejected and I'd actually be getting matches on OLD when I bothered with those platforms or wait when I went out people gravitated to the good looking fun guys now imagine that....no real surprise there.

I grow from this how? I see this as positive how? Lets be realistic.

[FredEire]

37 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so it amounts to nothing more than a guess. Not sure what can be learnt from a guess but anyway. Never have I been given reasons barring the inexperience and lack of chemistry but who really cares nobody is entitled to critique anyway. Or am I suppose to go and think what it might have been I said or did, this is a total waste of time and once again amounts to a guess.

Not matching on OLD, well that is easy its just being plain ugly, not sure what what improvements I should then implement.

Absolutely true but I suspect its all down to being ugly, its the easiest way to attribute being rejected. If I were good enough I would not be rejected and I'd actually be getting matches on OLD when I bothered with those platforms or wait when I went out people gravitated to the good looking fun guys now imagine that....no real surprise there.

I grow from this how? I see this as positive how? Lets be realistic.

Much of dating is guessing. It seems you are not very good at this so it makes sense you turn it into a simple maths equation about being too ugly and not alpha enough.

Unfortunately the truth is much more complex than this. Pretending you have it all figured out with your miopic worldview is not going to change this.

[ZA Dater]

9 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Much of dating is guessing. It seems you are not very good at this so it makes sense you turn it into a simple maths equation about being too ugly and not alpha enough.

Unfortunately the truth is much more complex than this. Pretending you have it all figured out with your miopic worldview is not going to change this.

No I am not very good at guessing and in essence maybe that is yet another one to add the pages long list. For me its best to write rejection off as too ugly rather than waste time trying to second guess someone.

I can look around me fortunately and get some comfort in that others are apparently better at guessing than me as well as being better looking. I think that is called cold comfort.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

No I am not very good at guessing and in essence maybe that is yet another one to add the pages long list. For me its best to write rejection off as too ugly rather than waste time trying to second guess someone.

I can look around me fortunately and get some comfort in that others are apparently better at guessing than me as well as being better looking. I think that is called cold comfort.

Lacking social skills is something you can work on and learn. It's a far better starting point than believing it's all down to being ugly and inherently low value. I also think it's far closer to the truth than the second one.

[ZA Dater]

33 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Lacking social skills is something you can work on and learn. It's a far better starting point than believing it's all down to being ugly and inherently low value. I also think it's far closer to the truth than the second one.

Guessing is not a social skills.

[ZA Dater]

34 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Lacking social skills is something you can work on and learn. It's a far better starting point than believing it's all down to being ugly and inherently low value. I also think it's far closer to the truth than the second one.

Also ugly means no matches on dating sites...which is confirmed.

[FredEire]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

Guessing is not a social skills.

Yes it is, very much so. Often we have to read between the lines.

There's a lot of social skills you don't seem to consider social skills. It's not just ranting about politics and world affairs. Only being able to talk about that shows a lack of social skills if anything.

[FredEire]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Also ugly means no matches on dating sites...which is confirmed.

Yes but correlation does not equal causation. Many attractive people don't get many matches.

In any case the consensus on her seems to be that you are not ugly.

[FredEire]

Also from what you have written here you get plenty of matches on dating sites, just not with people you find attractive.

If you don't find them attractive, why are you swiping right?

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Also from what you have written here you get plenty of matches on dating sites, just not with people you find attractive.

If you don't find them attractive, why are you swiping right?

I have to lower the criteria and I use boosts mostly which gets me likes. No matches I actually find attractive. Given up on dating apps for good now.

[ZA Dater]

27 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Yes it is, very much so. Often we have to read between the lines.

There's a lot of social skills you don't seem to consider social skills. It's not just ranting about politics and world affairs. Only being able to talk about that shows a lack of social skills if anything.

I can talk about many thing's what I cannot stand are people who communicate poorly and when it's a major effort to get them to actually talk.

[FredEire]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I can talk about many thing's what I cannot stand are people who communicate poorly and when it's a major effort to get them to actually talk.

It's a two way street. You often mirror the tendencies of people you converse with. If the conversation sucks it may be because the energy between you is awkward and you're not really giving them much to work with.

[NuevoYorko]

Well - 

OP looks at humans as objects.  Especially women, but no people have any depth of dimension in his estimation.  They are simply things - most of which he has no use for.   

So, he does not connect at all with the many ways that people enrich each others' lives.  It's just meaningless to him, I think.  

All women who don't meet his superficial "standards" are not going to be valuable to him in any way, since he has no use for humans except for this one wish for a female accoutrement of very specific dimensions.   

It's not interesting, and I don't know why we keep taking the sad bait OP tosses out to get the bit of human attention he evidently does crave.  He's getting it here, with these massive threads of woe.

I guess we are doing a service.

[NuevoYorko]

44 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I can talk about many thing's what I cannot stand are people who communicate poorly and when it's a major effort to get them to actually talk.

I'm sorry OP but there is NO WAY you are a good conversationalist.  Maybe you can "talk about" things but there would be no give and take and you are so profoundly self absorbed that a person you talk to would feel like they were not even there.

I imagine you behave differently if the mythical supermodel with the effervescent persona is in front of you, because that would probably shake you out of your crustaceous shell for a moment - just to be in the presence of your unicorn.

I assure you though that women like that are just as likely to want a relationship with depth as more "average" appearing ones, and they would not be getting their needs met with a person who is self absorbed and who basically sees them as a "thing" even if it's a "thing" that's placed on a pedestal.  

 

[FredEire]

4 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Well - 

OP looks at humans as objects.  Especially women, but no people have any depth of dimension in his estimation.  They are simply things - most of which he has no use for.   

So, he does not connect at all with the many ways that people enrich each others' lives.  It's just meaningless to him, I think.  

All women who don't meet his superficial "standards" are not going to be valuable to him in any way, since he has no use for humans except for this one wish for a female accoutrement of very specific dimensions.   

It's not interesting, and I don't know why we keep taking the sad bait OP tosses out to get the bit of human attention he evidently does crave.  He's getting it here, with these massive threads of woe.

I guess we are doing a service.

Projection, basically.

He knows his life view and personality is horribly rigid and one-dimensional so he pushes this onto others.

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, FredEire said:

Projection, basically.

He knows his life view and personality is horribly rigid and one-dimensional so he pushes this onto others.

Not really I enjoy spending time with people who actually have a point of view and an opinion, rare to find on on line dating and in life where it's a lot easier to just follow the crowd than have any opinion or view.

Please do a me a favour and ask someone what their life philosophy is. It's a fascinating date question which I have used often with mixed results. 

Only one dimensional because superficial attraction is what daring sites are based on nothing more, you can have a funny bio it makes no difference. 

Ultimately I guess people succeed because I'd like to think they find people they like rather than just settle for whoever finds them attractive. Simply put I like very few people so even if I were attractive I'd still have no success.

 

[ZA Dater]

49 minutes ago, FredEire said:

It's a two way street. You often mirror the tendencies of people you converse with. If the conversation sucks it may be because the energy between you is awkward and you're not really giving them much to work with.

Ok so it's always my fault. Got it. Oddly then I find people where the conversation flows really well back and forth. 

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so it's always my fault. Got it. Oddly then I find people where the conversation flows really well back and forth. 

Well for me, I can have a good conversation with most people. Which is probably why me and many others can enjoy dates even if we don’t see things moving further romantically. For you it seems to be flipped; there are very few people you can have conversations with. So yes, that’s a you problem. 
 

12 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Please do a me a favour and ask someone what their life philosophy is. It's a fascinating date question which I have used often with mixed results. 

It’s a weird question. Awkward. 

[FredEire]

13 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Well for me, I can have a good conversation with most people. Which is probably why me and many others can enjoy dates even if we don’t see things moving further romantically. For you it seems to be flipped; there are very few people you can have conversations with. So yes, that’s a you problem. 
 

It’s a weird question. Awkward. 

I have a feeling the pattern is:

1. OP goes on a date

2. Asks weird questions that are too deep or based on impersonal stuff like politics

3. Date shuts down and becomes awkward because of the awkward energy

4. OP decides this means they are bad communicators and have nothing to talk about

And then occasionally he will meet someone who is able to overcome the strangeness of the conversation enough to have an OK chat, but will still probably find the questions pretty odd. And these are the ones he tends to put on a pedestal.

[Weezy1973]

And also @ZA Dater seems to think it’s the woman’s job to make him feel confident. It’s just such a bad take.

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

And also @ZA Dater seems to think it’s the woman’s job to make him feel confident. It’s just such a bad take.

He likes how he feels about himself when he is in the company of an attentive and beautiful woman. That is very clear.

Not to say that others wouldn’t feel the same way, but when you are literally using others to fill your own bucket, that becomes problematic. A) other people are not going to want to be responsible for maintaining another person’s confidence and self-esteem and B) one will struggle through life if these are not things that they are able to develop intrinsically. 

Edited April 10 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

20 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

He likes how he feels about himself when he is in the company of an attentive and beautiful woman. That is very clear.

Not to say that others wouldn’t feel the same way, but when you are literally using others to fill your own bucket, that becomes problematic. A) other people are not going to want to be responsible for maintaining another person’s confidence and self-esteem and B) one will struggle through life if these are not things that they are able to develop intrinsically. 

My life is quite OK. Once again this thread is giving me many reasons to throw dating in the bin and leave it there for good as apparently there is literally nothing good about me, which I guess is OK because its subjective and as someone said "why care about what others think". Nevertheless I have been called useless many times in my life so its water off a ducks back. 

Did it occur to you that I can actually raise my game, I can actually be confident when I have someone in front of me I get along well with? Did it occur to you I can be personable, heck I even try to be funny, I would not get very far if I could not interact with people in a meaningful way. For what its worth many people struggle with self confidence.

There seems to be a perception I do not try, I have tried many times with no success at all, still kept trying nonetheless but also learnt that I need to find ways to work around what I am not good at but the problem is that is very difficult, either I spin some completely false narrative or I am simply honest about who I am, the latter seems the better option but then I ask myself why someone would pick me over someone else who has none of these issues?

 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, FredEire said:

I have a feeling the pattern is:

1. OP goes on a date

2. Asks weird questions that are too deep or based on impersonal stuff like politics

3. Date shuts down and becomes awkward because of the awkward energy

4. OP decides this means they are bad communicators and have nothing to talk about

And then occasionally he will meet someone who is able to overcome the strangeness of the conversation enough to have an OK chat, but will still probably find the questions pretty odd. And these are the ones he tends to put on a pedestal.

No what more often that not happens is OP sit across from people who cannot even tell the OP about their job, their passions, their hobbies, things that interest them or there is one topic where OP can get the person to talk so this one needs to be explored, whats even more common is said date taking zero interest in the OP at all which leads to the OP becoming pretty bored.

I seen nothing wrong with bringing general knowledge into a date, I see nothing wrong about trying to get someone to talk about what interests them in the hope there is are some reciprocal questions.

The last conversation I had which went really well encompassed everything from family to holiday plans. I have been taking on the advice from this forum for years about how to try engage on dates, most of it useful but useless if the person sitting opposite wont engage.

Also  could not have been so bad if I was able to have a relationship for 9 months and you know what that conversation always flowed and she took an interest in me. I suppose its my fault for people not taking an interest?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Well for me, I can have a good conversation with most people. Which is probably why me and many others can enjoy dates even if we don’t see things moving further romantically. For you it seems to be flipped; there are very few people you can have conversations with. So yes, that’s a you problem. 
 

It’s a weird question. Awkward. 

Let me guess I need to force myself to find someone interesting? As someone on this forum told me "people on dating sites are not looking for friends they are looking romance, do not waste their time" 

For a variety of reason I am not exactly the world's most relatable person so I suppose that is once again my problem, you know what I was doing age 12, I was learning about the politics, while my peers danced at disco's (I went to one and did not like it). I have never fitted in.

You want to know what I like, it like challenging myself be it work, be it intellectually, be it in discussion with specialists in their field, recently I had an excellent business discussion with a very successful accomplished individual. I am intense, I am serious (even though I try not to be) so am not everyone's cup of tear. Equally while I can sit and discuss cooking or pets I actually need the person to engage in the topic and this is always lacking, I honestly do not think I am being unreasonable here. 

Once had a date withe a paediatric DR from Salt Lake City, one of the better dates I had, great conversation and it was 3 hours which flew by quickly, I can raise my game, be the person I am, yes I can do this all the time but then I become impossible to relate to for some people.

Anyway its been nearly a week since my request for coffee was sent, guess I am once again not going to get anywhere unless I can try accomplish something remarkable but I have no idea what that would be. I'd need to believe I could but that would be the most difficult thing for me to do.

 

 

[FredEire]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No what more often that not happens is OP sit across from people who cannot even tell the OP about their job, their passions, their hobbies, things that interest them or there is one topic where OP can get the person to talk so this one needs to be explored, whats even more common is said date taking zero interest in the OP at all which leads to the OP becoming pretty bored.

I seen nothing wrong with bringing general knowledge into a date, I see nothing wrong about trying to get someone to talk about what interests them in the hope there is are some reciprocal questions.

The last conversation I had which went really well encompassed everything from family to holiday plans. I have been taking on the advice from this forum for years about how to try engage on dates, most of it useful but useless if the person sitting opposite wont engage.

Also  could not have been so bad if I was able to have a relationship for 9 months and you know what that conversation always flowed and she took an interest in me. I suppose its my fault for people not taking an interest?

It would be pretty atypical for me to have a date where we wouldn't be able to talk about life, jobs, hobbies etc. Even on some of my "bad" dates where I wasn't attracted to the girl I was seeing. It's pretty basic stuff.

It also wouldn't be common for my date not engage in the conversation at all, there's been one or two times but it suggests something is off or they are in a seriously bad mood.

The fact this seems to happen to you so often suggests the problem probably isn't your dates. There's only one common factor in all of these meetups.

I also wouldn't tend to plan out what I want to speak about on a date, in fact I got into it prepared to talk about just about anything, wherever the wind in blowing that day. And usually it flows much more naturally. You're there to get to know them at the end of the day, it isn't a police interrogation.

Edited April 10 by FredEire