Imminent Separation after 25 years.

[Quickie]

Thanks Becoming. That's exactly where we are. There have been these problems in the past which she has preferred not to mention, as like all younger men, I wasn't inclined to listen. I'm much better now by the way.

 

I really feel that she is being honest with me, and am certain there is no real love rival. I have had the option to go to this weekend myself (it's a flying club to which we both belong), and she has also offered to stay at home. So no detective.

 

We are planning some time together tonight. I'm cooking a romantic meal, bottle of her favourite wine, then a nice bath and I give a good massage. Should help to ease a few tensions, and who knows where it may lead.

 

I want to part on good terms tomorrow. I have a busy flying weekend arranged for myself too, so no moping about for either of us. Hopefully she will return Sunday with her batteries recharged.

 

Sorry to ramble, but pleased that at least you see things my way. Many thanks and I'll keep you informed.

[Quickie]

Well Devils Advocate. I can see things your way too, but hope dearly that you are wrong in this case. I still hold out hope that the storm can be weathered.

 

Thanks anyway, and you might just get the chance to say I told you so.

[Becoming]

Stay the course, man! Best wishes!

[Becoming]

So how'd it go?

 

And you know she's not going to be fooled by just a few romantic nights, don't you? Sounds like you're going to have to show her that you know things are going to have to change and that you're interested in changing the marriage to be more of what she wants this time, too.

[Quickie]

Unfortunately things didn't go well. I let my jealousy take control and it all ended with a huge row.

 

The weekend itself provided a break for both of us.

 

We had yet another attempt to discuss matters last night, which also ended up as an argument.

 

We are going to see a marriage guidance counsellor tonight. Unfortunately my wife is so set on this "trial separation" that I think nothing will change.

 

So more desperate by the day.

[Devils Advocate]

Well Devils Advocate. I can see things your way too, but hope dearly that you are wrong in this case. I still hold out hope that the storm can be weathered.

 

Thanks anyway, and you might just get the chance to say I told you so.

 

I'll never say I told you so, commenting about past mistakes is not something I feel the need to do. That's what women do.

 

Unfortunately things didn't go well. I let my jealousy take control and it all ended with a huge row.

 

The weekend itself provided a break for both of us.

 

We had yet another attempt to discuss matters last night, which also ended up as an argument.

 

We are going to see a marriage guidance counsellor tonight. Unfortunately my wife is so set on this "trial separation" that I think nothing will change.

 

So more desperate by the day.

 

She has made up her mind and is doing what's in her best interest, gathering ammo to show the world how horrible you are. This is MAJOR step one of the "time to get rid of him plan". Step two will either be screaming to the police about abuse OR alienating you and putting you in the position to cheat. these are the two paths most women choose from to separate you from your assets, home and friends. Don't let her.

 

You are letting her control every step of your breakup so you are going to LOSE... everything you own, everything you've earned and a major chunk of everything you will make for the forseeable future. Don't let this happen. Do you want to spend the twilight years of your life living in a one bedroom roach motel eating ramen noodles and wondering what happened to your life ?

 

Follow my suggestions, (screw the counseling it's just a bandaid to make her feel better about dumping you) Send her on her way with a smile and a wave. After she is firmly into her new life (even if you have to carry her into it but make sure there is no paper trail back to you), YOU move your assets into some manner of hiding and then you file for divorce. Cause ? Abandonment and alienation of affection. Don't speak to her again without your attorney and prepare yourself, this is about to become one of the most painful, invasive year of your life. the sooner you get started the sooner you can get on with your life.

[Becoming]

Thanks for update. Sorry to hear it didn't go well, but it may be rocky for months.

 

The thing I'm slowly learning is not to let the pit of pain be what controls my responses and communications to others, to stay calm, connected to myself and my wants and needs, communicate them as clearly and calmly as possible, and be the person I really want to be in the way I act. This is really quite difficult though it sounds so simple.

 

What are her major gripes? And what are you jealous of?

 

I once read this great book with the best title, something like We'd Have a Great Marriage if It Weren't for You. The author maintains that underneath whatever complaints we're having in a marriage are two people with the same hurt, which, in your case, I'd guess is abandonment. Find the common hurt, tend to that, and you have a chance.

 

But my goodness, we'll do anything to keep the other from seeing the scared vulnerable people we are deep inside really, won't we?

 

Keep us posted. Folks here can be helpful.

[Quickie]

Devil's Advocate. Thanks again for the warning. I am still hoping for a reconcilliation. Who know's what xmas might bring?

[Quickie]

Becoming. We went to our first counselling session on Tuesday evening and it was quite useful. Nothing new was said, but at least we didn't get into arguing. The important thing is that my wife wants to continue the counselling, which shows to me that she is actually comitted to the relationship.

 

She still plans to leave some time in January. Along with the counsellor, we discussed a less absolute seperation. Maybe a month at first with a lot of contact.

 

The nice thing is, we were able to go to a restaurant afterwards and have a civilised meal.

 

On the downside, my work has begun to suffer, so I had to tell my boss yesterday so as to get a bit more time to get my act together.

 

Going flying this morning. The only time I can forget these problems.

 

Thanks all for your continued support and information.

[OldEurope]

I would pay much attention to what Devil's Advocate is saying here--especially about protecting yourself just in case

 

A woman just does not go for a six month "trial" separation without having the idea of someone else on her mind, and/or, ultimately, divorce. A person does not need to bloody separate to "find themselves" if it is a lack of interests/job/identity from which a person, such as your wife, is suffering. There is something fundamentally unsatisfying for her in this marriage, so do be prepared for things to get worse before they get better,--if they do.

 

Be very careful, and do not get all caught up in the fact that you had a "nice dinner" after a counseling session, for instance. I mean, you paid for the wine. So what? Please do not consider small little civilities necessarily as evidence of bridging the gap. She is enjoying you for your conveniences, while planning an exit strategy.

 

I am very sorry, but I find the whole "trial separation" thing preposterous--even in a way more so than outright divorce which at least has a honesty about it, a real confrontation of feeling. This is just about stringing you along and playing upon your anxieties.

 

Ciao from Florence,

 

OE

[Becoming]

So DA and OE, it's more important that you stay protected and in fighting mode than it is to salvage a 25-year marriage with the woman you love by respecting her needs? And you wonder why you might be having trouble with relationships? Geez.

 

Glad to hear counselling looks hopeful. It takes much more courage to (1) open your heart to someone knowing it could very well get trounced than it does to (2) assume that's where it's all going to lead anyway so why not beat the other to the punch. At least when you choose the first option there's a chance. There isn't with 2 because regardless of what she does, you've decided to sink the relationship already and blame her so you don't have to take responsibility for your actions. How courageous is that?

[Devils Advocate]

So DA and OE, it's more important that you stay protected and in fighting mode than it is to salvage a 25-year marriage with the woman you love by respecting her needs? And you wonder why you might be having trouble with relationships? Geez.

 

It's more important that you realize that others will do what they choose to do and the only thing you can do is hope for the best but plan for the worst. His wife has given him every red-flag in the book and shrugged off his every attempt to repair the situation. She has made her decision and no action, argument or idea he can come up with will make her change her mind. All he can do now is prepare and protect himself.

 

Glad to hear counselling looks hopeful. It takes much more courage to (1) open your heart to someone knowing it could very well get trounced than it does to (2) assume that's where it's all going to lead anyway so why not beat the other to the punch. At least when you choose the first option there's a chance. There isn't with 2 because regardless of what she does, you've decided to sink the relationship already and blame her so you don't have to take responsibility for your actions. How courageous is that?

 

Balderdash, he is simply doing exactly the same thing you are excusing his wife for. We are advising him to make sure his emotional needs are being met, in this case to avoid an unexceptable amount of pain and financial ruin. the only thing he is being advised to do in #2 is what he's been doing for the last 25 years, support his wife's choices and wants while making sure the requirements and necessities of life are provided for. As for courageous understand the meaning of the word before you dare to question whether someone has it.

 

courage; noun

 

The quality of mind enabling one to face danger or hardship resolutely.

 

He is being advised to stand up and do the most painful and fearful thing imaginable, accept his marriage is ending and take care of the details without wallowing in anger, pain or grief. To do what is best for everyone NOW instead of standing by the sidelines and letting the family he worked to build for 25 yrs fall apart leaving nothing but pain, bitter regret and savaged feelings.

 

Better a clean break then a mouth full of ashes.

[OldEurope]

So DA and OE, it's more important that you stay protected and in fighting mode than it is to salvage a 25-year marriage with the woman you love by respecting her needs? And you wonder why you might be having trouble with relationships? Geez.

 

 

"Respecting her needs"? Isn't that what he has been doing for a quarter of a century only to wake up one day and she wants out/needs space/a trial separation...however you call it, it is the same: a break up.

 

And PS, what exactly do you know of my "trouble with relationships" if you have not read my particularly enlightening thread?

 

 

Devil's Advocate still is calling this one for what it is. His instincts are correct.

[Becoming]

You could be right, but none of us knows for sure, do we?

 

We're all interpreting the situation based on our past experiences, that's all. Only Q and wife can sort this out (with us looking on from the peanut gallery and shouting probably inappropriate things. And yes, this includes me as well.)

 

His wife conceded to less time for a separation, which leads me to believe she doesn't necessarily really want to end this marriage, that's all. Encouraging someone to be a man and protect his heart is probably what led to Q. being at this point in the first place. Real men are strong enough to be able to open their hearts to another as well as protect their needs.

 

As far as protecting his assets, his rights, yeah, he needs to do that. I'm not advocating being a lamb to the slaughter.

 

And apologies. I don't know about your relationships. You're right; I'm wrong there. Please forgive.

 

It takes courage to face what we did to make a relationship go awry. Extremely painful stuff.

 

Based on what I've read here, I'm just not sure it's really over. Long marriages have some really bad patches. It's been said that those in a long marriage emotionally divorce and remarry a few times. This just might be one of those times, and the marriage to come will be stronger for both parties.

 

So I couldn't in good conscience see it as time to throw her sorry ass out, etc. She's willing to go to counselling, so it's too early and maybe irresponsible to be advising a proactive divorce even though there's probably a part of Q that thinks you may be right. And you may be. Only time will tell.

 

Doesn't this family deserve the best our human nature can offer? Not our bitter advocacy of a preemptive breakup that not even she may really want? What she may want is to know is that there's something tender behind a heart so protected that nothing's come forth from it for years, and that may be what saves this marriage.

[Devils Advocate]

You could be right, but none of us knows for sure, do we?

 

We're all interpreting the situation based on our past experiences, that's all. Only Q and wife can sort this out (with us looking on from the peanut gallery and shouting probably inappropriate things. And yes, this includes me as well.)

 

His wife conceded to less time for a separation, which leads me to believe she doesn't necessarily really want to end this marriage, that's all. Encouraging someone to be a man and protect his heart is probably what led to Q. being at this point in the first place. Real men are strong enough to be able to open their hearts to another as well as protect their needs.

 

As far as protecting his assets, his rights, yeah, he needs to do that. I'm not advocating being a lamb to the slaughter.

 

And apologies. I don't know about your relationships. You're right; I'm wrong there. Please forgive.

 

It takes courage to face what we did to make a relationship go awry. Extremely painful stuff.

 

Based on what I've read here, I'm just not sure it's really over. Long marriages have some really bad patches. It's been said that those in a long marriage emotionally divorce and remarry a few times. This just might be one of those times, and the marriage to come will be stronger for both parties.

 

So I couldn't in good conscience see it as time to throw her sorry ass out, etc. She's willing to go to counselling, so it's too early and maybe irresponsible to be advising a proactive divorce even though there's probably a part of Q that thinks you may be right. And you may be. Only time will tell.

 

Doesn't this family deserve the best our human nature can offer? Not our bitter advocacy of a preemptive breakup that not even she may really want? What she may want is to know is that there's something tender behind a heart so protected that nothing's come forth from it for years, and that may be what saves this marriage.

 

Ahh yes again we have the typical response expected... A woman trying to define what a real man is or is not. Followed almost immediately by the if there's a problem in the marriage it's all the husbands fault.

 

To be expected but always so depressing to hear.

[Quickie]

Since the counselling session things have improved immensely. We are talking properly about our problems.

 

I think the full implications of this are finally being appreciated by both of us. We both realise we can't just go back, and both of us want the relationship to be ultimately successful.

 

Plan now is that we split mid to end of January for about a month at first, with no promises either side. The counselling will continue. There will be contact a couple of times a week.

 

Thanks for all comments.

[OldEurope]

What she may want is to know is that there's something tender behind a heart so protected that nothing's come forth from it for years, and that may be what saves this marriage.

 

 

One has to go through a trial separation in order to see if there is something "tender behind a heart so protected that nothing's come from it for years?" So it is HIS fault?

 

I am sorry, but as a woman, I find it really lame these women who marry intelligent, successful, emotional men (I am judging of course with the details of Quickie's intelligent writing, the fact that they fly on weekends which could speak of a nice lifestyle, and the absolute concern he has taken for what is going on)....and suddenly heap the blame for their own restlessness, self-boredom or questioned "identities" on the husband. And we don't know if she is or is not having an "emotional affair" or physical affair with someone else yet. Quickie's instinct was, originally, that that was a distinct possibility.

 

Perhaps what "saves his marriage" is her own coming around to appreciate what she has in this man and to stop stringing a man and his feelings along with some beast called "trial separation".

 

Also--note to Quickie: You write that things since counseling are going immensely better, but she seems adamant on a split in mid to late January. Forgive me if I see a contradiction in this development.....

 

Freezing in Florence

 

OE

[Quickie]

Old Europe, I don't think either of us is laying blame on the other, rather my wife has taken this squarely on her own shoulders.

 

As one who's glass is always half full, I see the recent developments as positive. To be able to talk once more about our relationship fears (and we both have fears for the future) and even the mundane things of life, is a good change. Both of us realised last night, whilst doing our xmas shopping, that this could be our last xmas together.

 

My best hope is to at least part in January on good terms, then, as my wife believes, attempt to rebuild our love for one another by dating and having fun.

 

I definitely do not believe that my wife is having or even considering having an affair.

 

So thanks for the opinions, keep 'em coming in. They're all helping whatever their content.

[Becoming]

Perhaps what "saves his marriage" is her own coming around to appreciate what she has in this man and to stop stringing a man and his feelings along with some beast called "trial separation".

 

Agree! This will have to happen or she won't be back. I'm just saying that Q saying, "Well, f off then! Let's get this over with. I want a divorce" won't likely make that happen. Making her remember why she married him in the first place and seeing what she has to lose will.

[Quickie]

Perhaps what "saves his marriage" is her own coming around to appreciate what she has in this man and to stop stringing a man and his feelings along with some beast called "trial separation".

 

It is exactly the above which she is trying to achieve with the trial seperation.

[OldEurope]

All right...You seem to have a positive or at least "open minded" view to developments, and that must be respected. Obviously, none of us is in your exact situation and only you can best measure the nuances of what is going on. I do wish the best for you and your marriage and hope that a resiliency grows as a result of you and your wife's plans.

 

PS Apologies if I wrote that (I thought that) you suspected infidelity on your wife's part. Either I read that in or assumed it somwhere along the line. You say that is not the case, so I will not bring that up anymore in my "responses"

 

Do keep us posted!

 

oe

[Owl]

Well, I'd like to make the suggestion that you seriously consider having a friend 'keep an eye' on your wife, especially once she moves out on her own. My money still says there is an affair in here...there are just soooo many things that point towards that it's hard to think that there would be any other cause.

 

Have you considered doing any snooping so that you could positively rule out an affair? Keyloggers on the computers, digital voice recorder in her car...reviewing her cell phone invoices for large numbers of calls to specific numbers, or text messages?

 

I know you don't feel that there is anything going on, but it's interesting to note that you DID mention someone specific attending this past weekened's get together.

 

How can you possibly feel that getting away from each other is going to bring the two of you back together? I know the 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' concept...but that only works when things are GOOD before the absence. What is her reasoning behind this again?

 

BTW...marriage counseling is USELESS if there is an affair going on...because she's going to maintain the facade that nothing is going on, and nothing is happening to fix the REAL bottom line issues in the marriage.

 

Other than that, I have no advice friend...I don't understand your reasoning or the method behind all of this.

[Quickie]

Owl, I don't want to get into spying. I think trust is an essential part of a relationship.

 

Must admit to struggling today. Can't help thinking that everything I/we do is the last time, like putting up the xmas tree.

 

Still hoping for a happy conclusion.

[Becoming]

I remember that feeling. Heck, I had it about 6 mths ago with family vacation, last Christmas putting up tree. And this Christmas putting up the tree was the best ever. Not that there aren't still problems. . . . But hoping and working toward that happy conclusion sometimes pays off. Prayers and blessings.

 

P.S. Like the plane avatar.

[Owl]

Quickie-

I think trust is an essential part of a relationship.

 

You know what...I would agree with you. BUT...have you gone and read what I went through like I'd suggested? Take a look on the infidelity section of this site.

 

Understand this...you will NEVER get the truth from someone who is involved in an affair unless you confront them with evidence. And a LOT of the times, they'll continue to lie even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

Go to the marriagebuilders website like I've already suggested. Read the information there about 'affair proofing' your marriage.

 

I'm done friend. I know that you don't care for my advice, so I won't waste your time anymore. And it is possible that you could be right...that there is no affair here. But...I personally wouldn't stake my marriage on it here if I were you. Go look up what the 'signs that your spouse is having an affair' are...see how many of those criteria your situation meets.

 

Or not...your choice. Again, I don't have any further advice for you...I'd be happy to find out that I'm wrong, and that you've managed to reconcile...post here and let me know how this works out, whichever way it ends up. Given your desire to maintain the status quo, and your fear of doing something that you feel could ruin your chances, I don't have a lot of hope for your situation.

 

Please, please, go read the info on the marriagebuilders site...and start posting in the general questions II forum there. See if anyone else has the same thoughts I do on your situation.