seachange Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Whoops, double post. Damn computer, so slooooow. Link to post Share on other sites
Israfil Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 My fiance is taking my name. (I am female) Link to post Share on other sites
Kenyth Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Kenyth & Outcast....for the love of pinto beans, unless you two are planning to marry each other, what the F is the point in bantering and picking apart each other's threads. Granted the opinions were asked for but no body asked you to try and disect each other's posts like you are. Why must every post in which an "opinion" is asked for must people break out the armor and go to battle. *whines* But......but.......but.......... SHE started it! Anyway Tudor, you're in luck. I asked my wife if I could marry Outcast so I could continue the banter despite your protests, but she said marriage is out of the question! Perhaps I could buy a "Best Friends Forever" pendant and send her half instead? Link to post Share on other sites
Kenyth Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Stick around, my friend. When you've seen enough of these: you'll understand that I was just tellin' it like it is. Wait until Alphamale calls somebody an idiot. He's already used 'feminazis'. And read the other thread. Then you didn't mean what I thought you meant. I thought you were accusing all men (myself included) of beating up women. No offense taken then. Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I'd much rather reject it outright than try to modify it from within and end up with a quasi-marriage, confusingly taking some but not all of prototypical characteristics of marriage. If we hadn't the tradition already imprinted upon our culture I daresay these generations wouldn't freshly reinvent the institution from scratch. Not really reinvented, though, is it? Modifications are always being added and taken away, here and there. My point was that there really are no "prototypical characteristics" of marriage - only what we're currently familiar with. Which won't be what our great-grandkids are familiar with, and wasn't what our great-grandparents were familiar with, either. Such is life; the only constant is human nature. What it comes down to, IMHO, is what the people getting married conceive in their concept of marriage. As long as they're in agreement, it's all good, as far as I'm concerned. I think that making whatever compromises are sometimes necessary between them also serves as a kind of checks-and-balances system for the institution. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Perhaps I could buy a "Best Friends Forever" pendant and send her half instead? a molitov cocktail would probably work better Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Chocolate Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Hot Cocoa, don't bite your tongue. Come join in the fray, what the hell. (Besides, you're getting blood in the chocolate! ) I know, it's a funny color now! Nope, staying out of it. I'd rather watch. What's the point in getting involved anymore? I'll only be insulted for having my opinion. Or be told that my opinion isn't being expressed the way someone else thinks it SHOULD be. Not worth it. Besides, a few people already expressed my exact views so I really don't have anything new to contribute to this particular debate. Link to post Share on other sites
High Contrast Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Not really reinvented, though, is it? Modifications are always being added and taken away, here and there. I meant that if the cultural memory of marriage were erased, do you think we would reinvent it? No way! We'd have boyfriends, and serious boyfriends. My point was that there really are no "prototypical characteristics" of marriage - only what we're currently familiar with. That's what "prototypical characteristics" are defined as!! What it comes down to, IMHO, is what the people getting married conceive in their concept of marriage. As long as they're in agreement, it's all good, as far as I'm concerned. Me too. It's all good, for other people. As for myself, since I don't like the traditional, female-dominated institution, I don't want any marriage at all. Link to post Share on other sites
High Contrast Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I know, it's a funny color now! Nope, staying out of it. I'd rather watch. What's the point in getting involved anymore? I'll only be insulted for having my opinion. Well, then, I'll just have to call you a @% $*&% for not expressing your opinion! Link to post Share on other sites
Author a4a Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 I do not mind the hi jack because it brings up some very interesting points. Aside from finger pointing from fem - nazi to caveman attitudes does not the real problem lay in what society concieves as "correct" marriage rituals? Is it not because traditional marriage to most involves religious aspects? I am kinda shocked at how posters are reacting to this, I did not realize it was such a deep rooted issue for so many people. I really thought I just kind of hurt my Hs feelings in some odd way that I just could not understand myself or see any logic to it....... I cannot wait to chat about this with him in depth tonight. a4a- I taste test bon bons all day long. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Chocolate Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Well, then, I'll just have to call you a @% $*&% for not expressing your opinion! Sigh...you just can't win around here! :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Chocolate Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Sigh...you just can't win around here! :laugh: (Watch out, certain people, and I wonder who they could be, might report you and you'll be kicked off! And then you'll have to re-register as Low Contrast!) Oops! Accidentally answered my OWN post! Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I meant that if the cultural memory of marriage were erased, do you think we would reinvent it? No way! We'd have boyfriends, and serious boyfriends. I dunno...seems like people like to have these sorts of alliances formalized. The forms they take may change, but the idea of a ceremony hasn't really. But who knows. Guess we'll see, if we're lucky enough to live that long. That's what "prototypical characteristics" are defined as!! Okay, so I had to haul out my dictionary to make sure. But I think I can stand by my point - here's the definition of "prototypical": prototypical - archetypal: representing or constituting an original type after which other similar things are patterned ...so, what I was saying is that the current definition /= the original, or prototypical type. Because that has been constantly evolving. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Chocolate Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 a4a, just curious and maybe I missed this but didn't you discuss this before you got married? Why is this coming up now? Sorry, if you've already talked about this and I missed it. Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I am kinda shocked at how posters are reacting to this, I did not realize it was such a deep rooted issue for so many people. I really thought I just kind of hurt my Hs feelings in some odd way that I just could not understand myself or see any logic to it....... I cannot wait to chat about this with him in depth tonight. Yeah, I guess we've strayed a bit far from the original point...I remember reading the earlier August thread on this topic. It really does touch a nerve. I think the most important thing to do is what you already want to do, a4a - have a serious conversation about what it means to both of you, don't make it about lines drawn in the sand or fundamental rejection or acceptance of each other, but about trying to understand where it fits in your relationship. And then go from there. I think that as long as everybody feels like they are really being listened to, a lot of angst can be bypassed. No reason a couple can't figure it out on their own regardless of all of our opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author a4a Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 a4a, just curious and maybe I missed this but didn't you discuss this before you got married? Why is this coming up now? Sorry, if you've already talked about this and I missed it. Yes we discussed it many times.... He stated that he would like me to take his name, of course I stated that I just did not feel comfortable about it because of work, and I am the last one of my family. If we did have kids I would most probably hyphenate their name on the legal end of things, but allow his name only in casual life........ still keeping my own last name of course ( we will have no kids unless one shows up on our stoop and is already housebroke and with a college fund in hand) For some reason it makes me feel like less than equal to him to take his name. I think?? It recently came up because of the award I recieved. His name was on it..... not mine at all. What is more odd I recieved this strictly based on my work and long time work as an individual..... it almost seemed to erase that part of my life in a odd sort of way. Now that I have a project underway my name will be on it, this is not the first but the first rather important one in my career. I have worked very hard to build a name for myself in the field and a simple name change would mean that people may not recognize my work........... so here we are back to pre- marital conversation of name changing again with him. I guess it was never resolved he just took it in stride until it now may become a little more public? I hate to hurt his feelings but what the hell about mine? a4a Link to post Share on other sites
seachange Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I hate to hurt his feelings but what the hell about mine? You just summed up 7 pages of thread in one sentence! Nicely done. Link to post Share on other sites
Hot Chocolate Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Why not change your middle name to be your maiden name? Lots of women do that. Then your full name would be your first name, your "maiden name", your husband's name. It's another alternative to hyphenating (which IS a pain!) Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Now that I have a project underway my name will be on it, this is not the first but the first rather important one in my career. I have worked very hard to build a name for myself in the field and a simple name change would mean that people may not recognize my work........... so here we are back to pre- marital conversation of name changing again with him. Look A4A, I don't mean to be rude but you know as well as I do that the whole work thing is an excuse. I've worked at four fortune 500 companies and career women are changing their last names all the frikking time. It has little or no affect on their career or their reputation (unless their new last name is Bin-Laden ). I'm mean come on....lets get real here. This is a power struggle issue between you and him and you don't want to lose. It has very little to do with your "career". Link to post Share on other sites
Author a4a Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 I would not hyphenate my name on my work...... and my middle name is a family tradition of sorts..... I guess I just like being me and being known as me before I want to be known as his wife. I would imagine that would hurt if somebody said that to me but I feel complete as my own person and did not hide it from day one. What I have done, where I have been is all as much a part of me as my name I guess. So important to me that perhaps it is important for some men to have a wife take on their name. I do not like to be called wife either..... partner yes..... spouse yes.... I have no clue why that just strikes me the wrong way, it just does. I am no femi-nazi I treat my husband with a great amount of respect and with great consideration. If I did not I would just tell him to stick his name where the sun does not shine and not give a rip if he cared or not. Guess this chat tonight may be very interesting indeed...... a4a Link to post Share on other sites
Author a4a Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Look A4A, I don't mean to be rude but you know as well as I do that the whole work thing is an excuse. I've worked at four fortune 500 companies and career women are changing their last names all the frikking time. It has little or no affect on their career or their reputation (unless their new last name is Bin-Laden ). I'm mean come on....lets get real here. This is a power struggle issue between you and him and you don't want to lose. It has very little to do with your "career". There really is not a power struggle at all...... of course you probably could not relate to people that actually see themselves as being equally deserving to have their feelings considered regardless of the genitals that they may have? a4a Link to post Share on other sites
my2cents2 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Wow, I'm sort of surprised at how strongly some men(and women) feel about this issue. In the big picture it seems like such an insignificant thing. Tradition for the sake of tradition is ridiculous...I'm not a big believer in taking the man's name. If thats what you need to feel that you and your spouse are truly one then I think some other more important aspects of marriage are being overlooked. Definitely talk more about this with your husband, but I say don't take the name and don't give it a second thought! Taking the name doesn't solidify the marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
hotgurl Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 a4a, I don't undertsand why you think taking his name and being called wife you somehow take away from your idenity and make you inferior. Why is it threatening to you? Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 There really is not a power struggle at all. with all due respect A4A, i must disagree ..... of course you probably could not relate to people that actually see themselves as being equally deserving to have their feelings considered regardless of the genitals that they may have? if u feel that strongly then take both your last names and create a new last name. For instance if his last name is "Smith" and yours is "Pyle" then your new hybrid name would be "Smile" and you'd both use it. But now i think about it you'd both be fighting about whose last name makes up the 1st part of the new hybrid name Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Then you didn't mean what I thought you meant. I thought you were accusing all men (myself included) of beating up women. Well some do. One would have me had I not exited the relationship. And some women beat up men. But I'm balanced enough to realize that the behaviour of one or a few individuals does not characterize all individuals of that group. Here, as you've by now gathered, it's another sort of beating entirely and, again, not perpetrated by all by any means - thank heavens. Link to post Share on other sites
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