Outcast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Believe it or not, all is not lost. Some people actually do see how they cause themselves such grief by thinking the way they think. Ellis has had enough success to be a reknown author and therapist so his methods work Link to post Share on other sites
makaze Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Obviously most women feel the same way about this. Get it? It's female nature. Maybe you can try "accepting" it? After all you guys want us all to "accept" this so-called 'male nature' concept. Kaemlyn, heh the analogy is getting out of hand. I never was against masturbation, I don't think I hinted at that. Basically, yes, 'wanting' to cheat equals cheating pretty much. But 'fantasy' does not [always] equal 'wanting'. Many stuff I think about I would never do nor want it to happen. I had and [perhaps I am still having] issues with this. Of course it is a given that your man doesn't cheat on you physically. I don't see how some women can feel grateful about that. Yet to some women that is the only requirement, oh well. Someone who is completely faithful to you in every single way that you described- does not necessarily mean he loves you more than the previous boyfriend who occasionally looked at porn and stuff. Advice to women with these issues: try looking at it this way. If you never desire looking at porn/other men etc and your bf does like to look at other girls- I think the jealousy partly comes from being jealous of your partner- how he is able to feel that way about other girls, yet you feel tied and devoted to only him. The immediate conslusion is that he doesn't feel the same way about you that you feel about him. As much as you don't feel you need to, look at porn for example [not his kind of porn, but something that would be more appealing to you]. You might dislike lots of things but you will find stuff that you actually like. Just take the time to do it. Or try to notice attractive guys, either on the street or pictures or however. Probably not at first, but you will eventually realize what it's all about. What it feels to be attracted to other 'people' without the feeling of love/attachment. You'll feel how different it is and understand that this is exactly how he feels. How different this superficial feeling is compared to how you feel about your partner. You have to feel this difference for yourself, it's the only way to get rid of all these doubts you have in your mind. You'll realize that it really is what your bf would describe as 'no big deal' and 'meaningless', and you won't feel like you're on some lower level compared to your bf. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Obviously most women feel the same way about this. Get it? It's female nature. That's not obvious at all. It's not at all 'female nature'. I'll suggest that it will be mostly a problem of young women and that as they grow into themselves, they become more secure and less fearful. Link to post Share on other sites
makaze Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 That's not obvious at all. It's not at all 'female nature'. I'll suggest that it will be mostly a problem of young women and that as they grow into themselves, they become more secure and less fearful. Women of all ages sometimes feel this way regardless of their maturity. Women are competetive. Animals as well. It's a natural feeling just like the male who somehow seeks multiple partners at least through fantasy. I'm not saying either is good or that it's an excuse, but stop bashing women who feel this way if all you [not maybe you in particualr] are going to do is defend men by bringing up the term 'biology'. Link to post Share on other sites
sparticuss Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 well when my man loked at porn it made me feel down and hurt yea maybe i need to be more secure but it doesnt exactly help the situation if my boyfriend actually does care for me.Why should i have to feel like that? . Toni. I only wish I could find that piccie and caption from the mens rooom The semi porn shot of that babe and the caption that she's still got a guy at home and she still makes his life as miserable as the rest of us guys. It isn't actually your boyfriend who makes you feel so insecure. Have a look at the teen film Mean Girls. Its an exagerrated film but its not fiction. There are absoloute armies of mean girls out there building up heir own ego by puting you down and playing to your insecurities. But your boyfriend is not one of them. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Bloody hell its like world war 3 in here lol I do agree with you that maybe she is probably jelous to. Men will always argue that porn means nothing that its just scratching and itch as you say. Im 21 and yea maybe im not as intelligent as quite a few people in here im only young but i dont agree that i should have to change the way that i think.Am i really the one with the problem? Yes maybe it is stupid that i get jelous and upset about my boyfriend looking at women in pictures,but i told my counsellor that it upset me that my boyfriend looked at porn. He said that i am not the one with the problem and neither is my boyfriend.We need to talk to each other more about feelings and meet in the middle.He said i shouldnt have to be unhappy in my relationship because of the porn but my boyfriend likes doing it so i shouldnt make him change his mind fair enough i agree. But as a result of the porn looking i dont trust my boyfriend at all and my counsellor said a relationship is nothing if there isnt any trust.So i asked what i should do?He said that men think thats it always the women with the problem when it comes to porn because they dont see anything wrong with it.But that they should consider there partners feelings on the matter also.As there is no relationship if hes not willing to sort things out.Things get bitter and twisted.Its such a shame that porn should come between a relationship.Is it really worth it? I dont think so.If men think that its so easy to change the way women think why dont they change there minds about liking porn if its that easy.I asure you it isnt. Well im getting better at things anyway im not as jelous anymore.Maybe if he looks at naked women i will look at naked men simple as.Yes maybe its a pathetic little game but my boyfriend said it probably would upset him if i looked at pics of naked men all the time.Well i say treat others how youd like to be treated Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 The thing, Toni, is that you are jealous because you are afraid he likes the pictures better than you. And that's just not true. So why it's a problem is that you're afraid of something that doesn't exist. It's like being afraid there's a monster in your closet. Should you be afraid of monsters in your closet the rest of your life or is it better to realize the monster you are afraid of doesn't exist? Link to post Share on other sites
High Contrast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Believe it or not, all is not lost. Some people actually do see how they cause themselves such grief by thinking the way they think. Ellis has had enough success to be a reknown author and therapist so his methods work Few have heard of him, even fewer have undergone Rational Therapy, and fewer still have enjoyed long-lasting positive results. Book sales and a small following would similarly vindicate the approaches of Wilhelm Reich, Ayn Rand, Eli Siegel, Werner Erhard, or L. Ron Hubbard. Link to post Share on other sites
High Contrast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I dont think so.If men think that its so easy to change the way women think why dont they change there minds about liking porn if its that easy. For one thing, society is pretty much on his side of the argument. If he's not obsessed and completely abandoning you, you're supposed to tolerate some porn use. Link to post Share on other sites
She-Ra Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Toni_no12002, there are so many varieties of beauty, and it seems men come to appreciate all of them. A lot of women hope that their partner's love for them would limit the man's appreciation of beauty to just her's; unfortunately, the idea of beauty is perceived regardless of feelings, how the man feels about a woman. It is a rational judgement. So, there will always be beautiful women with nice figures, and your man will always have judged them as such. The issue is how important is physical beauty to your man? Does he savour through images saved in his mind? Is it so important that he forgets his love for you? Does he feel whole and complete with you only? Is there a void--a necessary requirement of his--that you don't satisfy? Or, is it merely a nasty habit that years of being single or influence from society had convinced him is acceptable behaviour? Trust is absolutely important. You need to know your man, his values and beliefs. Sometimes, people look at details of situations too greatly and lose sight of the big picture. If his love for you is true and great, but sometimes he falls to temptation, perhaps it is not too great a problem. A lot of men view situations opposite of what I just described. A lot of men look at the big picture and forget about the details. It may be that as long as he knows he loves you greatly, he is comfortable with it, and doesn't realize that his love for you should translate into all the little details of his actions/behaviour. You said that your bf has now given up pornography. Is he missing it? Or, does he know that it was something wrong for him to do and should change, because it hurts you--the most important person in his life? You need to know him better to build trust. And please don't play games with him. Games do nothing to build deep, genuine relationships. If one must play games in order for a relationship to "work", then it is a relationship not worth having. Link to post Share on other sites
Outcast Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I think people should just buy electroshock machines and attach them to men's brains so if they look at naked women, they'll get punished. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I might be afraid of it.Yes i do not know what my boyfriends thinking but still doesnt change the fact that i worry about it.The thing is niot everyones the same he could find those women more attractive i dont know lol. My boyfriend was single for quite a while maybe he did just get used to it because he wasnt getting any but why didnt that change when he got with me?I always gave him sex when he wanted it.My counsellor told me that also i should be able to say no but i darent incase he goes back to looking at porn.True Actually. Link to post Share on other sites
She-Ra Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Kaemlyn is right. It's about respect for the person you love. And, being with a person who shares the same values as you. So, if a woman is not bothered by her man's habits, then yippee! But, if she is, then find out whether the man can give it up easily or not. If he can, yippee! If he can't, then find someone else who can (because it's true that you don't want your man to be miserable trying to please you). People with different values and beliefs simply do not belong with each other. Don't let anyone convince you that a man who thinks it's wrong to look at other women lustfully don't exist. My current boyfriend is wonderful, just as Kaemlyn's boyfriend sounds wonderful too. Toni_no12002, I'm sure that your boyfriend and my boyfriend and Kaemlyn's boyfriend finds some (or even a lot) of other women more physically beautiful than us. However, a good man doesn't require to be with the most beautiful woman. Some men, yes. But good men, no. You really need to find out what kind of man your bf is. And you should listen to your therapist about learning to say 'no'. Don't be afraid of losing your bf to pornography. Don't be afraid of losing a guy who isn't happy with you being you. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Hi thanks i suppose your right.Well im getting better at it.I suppose if i had more confidence in myself i wouldnt be as bothered. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisa00 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 You know what I have the same problem you do, so you are not alone. I keep thinking I am crazy because it really makes me sick when my bf does this. I do understand there are beautiful women out there but society has made it o.k. to poster women everywhere. Now how do these women feel if there men are doing this to them? You know my bf and I broke up or should I say he broke up with me. Starting screwing this whore from where I am from and I was still in Love with him when he came running back to me and I took him back. With him knowing that I don't know if I could ever trust him again. Now when he looks more than once and buys dirty magazines or gets excited over other women. Oh and not only that but I got a Breast Enhancement also hoping this would help my self esteem and hopefully his. I me we have an Awesome sex life but this makes me not want him. I know that I am a woman that can have any man I want, I know I am beautiful. I am not saying this to make anybody feel threatened or anything but I know this. When men stare at me, it pisses me off especially when they are with their girlfriends or wives. I think to myself (she deserves your respect) I just want to hollar at them. I love the man that I am with but if he continues this I don't want to go anywhere or do anything with him anymore. I deserve respect and Us women are gifts from God and I believe We deserve to be treated as such... Still there is no proof that he is doing that either.I suppose we will never totally know how minds work.I know excatly how this person feels ive been through it.You should know outcast.Im still struggling now but im getting better. The point i think is that he getting of looking at those women.Not his gf.Fair enough you can find someone attractive but to get off on em?Come on!!People say men dont have very good imaginations.I dont believe that.Its like having a memory of something thats happened.In all porn causes so many problems.Is it even worth this much hassle,and hurt? I dont think men and women will ever agree on this sort of thing, our minds are so different. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted January 30, 2006 Share Posted January 30, 2006 To be honest now ive begun to deal with him looking at other women on tv and stuff.Its going to drive me insane if i keep obssessing about it! When blokes look at me my bf gets really paranoid.I must say i do like it when other men look at me because it makes me feel attractive still.Also with him getting jelous it shows that he does actually care about me. I used to hate myself so much and maybe thats why i got so upset about the whole thing.What i say is if im not good enough he can go elsewhere.Ill just find someone else!Im not going to let a man hurt me anymore because ive had too much of that in my life already! Link to post Share on other sites
Guestie Posted January 31, 2006 Share Posted January 31, 2006 hi Nicci- It is really great to hear other women speak out about these problems and insucurities. I too have been so distracted because of what my fiance' has been looking at on the computer, I forget to eat, can't focus on homework and feel just plain ill, It hurts my heart so much. I do not look anything like what he likes on the internet. He never lets me see him sneaking a peak when we are in public, I always have to ask him if he finds her attractive,,, ect. He always replies no. He has always told me he doesn't have a "type" but come to find out, the pics i found him looking at are deffinatly brown haired beautiful actresses,that look similiar. He acctually knows their names which blows my mind considering when I talk of famous people in the magazines, He's always say's who is that? What a liar! He covers his tracts pretty well. After I found what he was looking at, I became quiet and reserved, I couldn't look at him the same way. I feel numb. Not good nor bad I couldn't even bring myself to say anything. He erased everything the next day. I think he feels naughty or gross. I don't want him to stop or change, I just want him to be honest with me otherwise, it is always in the back of my mind like he is a different person now. Gosh I wish I could feel differently about this. Why am I so upset over something so tedious? Every guy does it. I don't know would it feel better if I were to know or not know at all? Link to post Share on other sites
elijahBailey Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 How a woman reacts really depends on how she's wired. In the same way, we men look because that's just the way we're wired. Heck, if we don't look, we wouldn't have found you in the first place. And if we didn't find women desirable, mankind won't reproduce. So, let's be truthful in the first place. I think the consensus here is that it bothers the shyt out of most women that men look. But if you were to go deeper into the issue, there are men who... 1) stare blatantly in the presence of their women 2) steal a peek discretely but is careful not to piss their women off For (1), I think the guy's just low. But for (2)... if the woman is still seriously pissed, then I think she's seriously delusional. How.... oh how can men not look? By insisting that men not look after they're committed, it is tantamount to asking a woman NOT to want to look beautiful anymore. And we all know that all women want to look their best because having men notice them is a feeling all women enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest5 Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 In day to day life, when I see other men, I don't think about them sexually at all or even romantically or any way near that arena. I think of it as a more professional manner. I might have fantasies, but having nothing to do with real life or reality people. Link to post Share on other sites
raffy5465 Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 that is do TRUE!i dumped my boyfriend yesterday. i know, it was maybe overreaction...but he had been staring at other women all night, even knowing how much iit hurt me...and i broke up on the phone he told me the following words: i do not want to lose you...i do not want cheap women who take all the crap from me...i want you...please help me! i did not give an answer to that...i believe i is over beause i do not want to feel "that" way again...i am going to be a single for the rest of my life...alone is better than hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
F150 Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Hey I'm new here and only lurked for half a day before posting! Anyway, to answer the question, we men really don't "think" about much of anything when checking out other women. But here's the thing about myself and probably lots of other men too... There are actually many more times where I am checking out my own wife than other women. In the bedroom in the morning (when she has that cute morning hair)... maybe a "oops" peek in the shower once in a while. Watching her as she sleeps peacefully (well, thats more adoration than sexual lol)... Checking her out from balcony in a mall as she walks around to her stores then smiles up at me when she sees me. That sort of thing is much more common. Which brings us to the real issue of insecurity mentioned already. The times your boyfriend, husband, FwB, or whatever is checking you out, you are not counting nearly as much as the times you catch him checking out other women. When he looks at them, it twists that insecurity, but when he looks at you it's the insecurity that makes you doubt he is checking you out and perhaps causing you to discount it entirely... Try to reflect on that a bit. I could be way off, but this is how it is with me and my wife. Anyway, we can hem and haw about generalizations all day long and you still won't know exactly what you need to do... So here's a specific thing I recommend that would have a two-fold benefit in your situation, OP: Next time you are out and about with your boyfriend, check out other men you actually find hot and make it obvious in your own way, but not so much like you're kidding nor trying to get back at him. Do it like you have no qualms about it... Do it innocently... Maybe do it like my wife does: "He sure looks familar *smile*", which really means, damn he's hot. Or make a comment about how he must work out or just get creative... One thing this will do is it will probably make him think a bit about it (and maybe remind him of his own insecurities so he relates to your's better). Second thing is that it will make you feel more secure in yourself considering the idea that you aren't so dependent on the approval of this one man in the big world we live in... Once that is set, the deeper stuff you guys already have will become more obvious to both of you. Anyway, just my thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
catgirl1927 Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Women that don't want their SO's to find other women attractive surprise me. How can he find you attractive if he doesn't also find other women attractive? He might only have love for you but that doesn't mean he is blind even if that is what he says. Wow. That makes me feel so much better. It really does, I struggle with this all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
MissRedd Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Hi all, New to the boards! I want to take a different tact on this whole thing. I too have felt intense pain and sorrow over this issue in my life. I would like to suggest the very wild thought that this horrible state of feeling has nothing to do with your boyfriend/husband. Would any of you agree that it is possible that even if he were a "saint"-you might still have some very deep discomfort with the tv, being out in the public--say at a bar, what have you? This is not to say that some men do cause this type of reaction from their SOs by being creeps. Just sayin' But let's put those ones aside. I am talking about women like myself that seriously struggle. No amount of talk about "Men are men" or "He is going home with you-what more do you want?" is going to take away my painful feelings. Also-no amount of reassurance from a kind man is going to take away my feelings either. This is something deeper. Even a few of the guys here seemed to sense that there may be another issue going on. Thanks to those guys! It's not about whether he loves me, or if its okay to look or not look. No, it's way more deep than that. I believe there are many of us out there, feeling mighty alone right about now. I am tired of the focus being on "How to get to where I can stomach the idea that it is what it is and just act like its fine". That is not living. I am interested in going past that. My life has become very small due to this "issue" of (for lack of better words) Jealousy and insecurity. Is there anyone else out there that feels like me? That knows somewhere deep inside that it could be any man? That maybe it isn't at all about our current loves? I want to feel good again. I want to be me. This isn't sexy, fun or joyful. To be sickened to watch TV or to go out to dinner is not a whole life. I would like to explore this further with other women that feel like I do. I would like to do it in a place that feels safe and where the topic doesn't become about whether or not we can get "used to it". This is not to take away from this topic-as I believe there are situations that warrent an understanding that you must make a decision whether or not to deal with a bf or SO that causes this feeling. I would love for any woman to feel free to PM me to disucss more. Perhaps even a POSITIVE support group for those who want to have their lives back. If you are like me, you have looked and looked and looked for support! The worst part of this whole thing is feeling alone. Peace to you ladies that have struggled and hurt so badly. I know what it's like. And thanks to this board for having these discussions, allowing us all to come out of the shadows. Miss Redd Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I think people should just buy electroshock machines and attach them to men's brains so if they look at naked women, they'll get punished. That is great! I love it! I completely love my bf friend and I expect him not to look at porn, and I have no problem with him thinking a woman is beautiful, it is when it becomes a sexual thing that it bothers me. I know that I think men are good looking but sex doesn't even cross my mind. I want the same thing from him, he can say "she is good looking" but lusting even with no intent to pursue should not be involved in viewing something beautiful. I don't look at a car or painting and think "wow I want to have sex with that" I look at the beauty. Link to post Share on other sites
Toni_no12002 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I suppose men and women think differently.Ive begun to deal with all my problems and i can see quite clearly now.I do believe that you can look at someone else in a sexual way and still love your SO.When it comes to just looking at someone your only looking at what they look like, a relationship needs more than that.You need to actually like the person too.I find loads of people attractive.Doesnt mean i find my boyfriend any less though.I wouldnt gawp at other men infront of him though i wouldnt want to hurt his feelings. Men say they are more visual this maybe the case but women have eyes too.If men can use them so can women.Men seem to stare more.Women are just better at hiding it! Link to post Share on other sites
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