Discovered Nine Year Old Affair

[daveamec]

15 minutes ago, JonJ said:

 

I have to accept the fact that I’ll never know for sure if what I’m being told is the entire truth. There is simply know way for me to forensically prove that nothing else happened. 
She has explained her state of mind at the time nine years ago, at least as much as she can remember. As far as how much of a detailed memory she has, I have no clue, I stopped going down the path of seeking the sexual details, as they were causing too many images and negative feelings.

He is still around in our city, but neither of us see him very often.

 

It is generally not possible the truth are being shared. It is very hard for me to believe nothing else happened. Or your story is not much complete. In fact, when your wife and the guy ended in bathtub with giving each other oral sex, what happened afterwards. Were they simply left the action? Didnot you ask about what happened next? When she gives you oral sex, does she leave the intercourse easily? 

Have you ever met this guy and happened to talk about something? Or say even hello?     

[JonJ]

6 minutes ago, daveamec said:

It is generally not possible the truth are being shared. It is very hard for me to believe nothing else happened. Or your story is not much complete. In fact, when your wife and the guy ended in bathtub with giving each other oral sex, what happened afterwards. Were they simply left the action? Didnot you ask about what happened next? When she gives you oral sex, does she leave the intercourse easily? 

Have you ever met this guy and happened to talk about something? Or say even hello?     

Apparently they were interrupted and that is why the event stopped.

I have met they guy, we are acquaintances. I don’t really hate him, although I am very jealous on some days, and less on others. I will likely never talk to him about this scenario.

[daveamec]

Just now, JonJ said:

Apparently they were interrupted and that is why the event stopped.

I have met they guy, we are acquaintances. I don’t really hate him, although I am very jealous on some days, and less on others. I will likely never talk to him about this scenario.

We are not sure of the interruption. Did you wife tell you about interruption? 

[JonJ]

4 minutes ago, daveamec said:

We are not sure of the interruption. Did you wife tell you about interruption? 

Yes, she described how they were interrupted. 
Of course, the crux of the situation for me is to choose to believe, or not believe, her account. If I did not believe her, there really would be no way forward for us. But I believe her more than I don’t at the moment, and I have grilled her like a homicide detective.

[daveamec]

1 minute ago, JonJ said:

Yes, she described how they were interrupted. 
Of course, the crux of the situation for me is to choose to believe, or not believe, her account. If I did not believe her, there really would be no way forward for us. But I believe her more than I don’t at the moment, and I have grilled her like a homicide detective.

That is good. Now we know your story was not complete. If you are happy to share with what was that interrupted them? Why she did not go back to sex? 

This is quite important to understand her feeling at bathtub and even now.  Did you ever ask why she did not continue? 

[Wiseman2]

How has grilling her like a homicide detective helped your marriage? Does it alter the version of events or just help you get even with her because you haven't really forgiven her at all?  Is your marriage all about this episode or do you two have anything else worth staying married for? 

[JonJ]

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How has grilling her like a homicide detective helped your marriage? Does it alter the version of events or just help you get even with her because you haven't really forgiven her at all?  Is your marriage all about this episode or do you two have anything else worth staying married for? 

Yes, I believe interrogating my wife about the episode has helped. Being able to ask any question I have about the motivations and circumstances surrounding this, and having my wife answer in an authentic and open manner, has been a huge help. It makes me feel as if she isn’t lying to me, because she answers readily and openly. It helps me feel as if I have some sense of control of the current situation, even if I can’t change the past. Also, learning as much as I can about everything helps me get some perspective of the “who what when where and why’s” of the infidelity.
Our marriage has been focused on these infidelities a great deal over the past couple of weeks, but we have also had moments of intense “reconnection” and conversation. 
We have so much going for us, we’ve been together quite happily for 11 years now, and 9 years since these events. Two super great young children together. She is a profoundly great mother. 
 

So far, my greatest difficulties have been the mental images of the sexual acts. It seems as if these images have a little less sting now that I am integrating them into a larger narrative. 

Edited March 8 by JonJ

[daveamec]

6 hours ago, JonJ said:

Yes, I believe interrogating my wife about the episode has helped. Being able to ask any question I have about the motivations and circumstances surrounding this, and having my wife answer in an authentic and open manner, has been a huge help. It makes me feel as if she isn’t lying to me, because she answers readily and openly. It helps me feel as if I have some sense of control of the current situation, even if I can’t change the past. Also, learning as much as I can about everything helps me get some perspective of the “who what when where and why’s” of the infidelity.
Our marriage has been focused on these infidelities a great deal over the past couple of weeks, but we have also had moments of intense “reconnection” and conversation. 
We have so much going for us, we’ve been together quite happily for 11 years now, and 9 years since these events. Two super great young children together. She is a profoundly great mother. 
 

So far, my greatest difficulties have been the mental images of the sexual acts. It seems as if these images have a little less sting now that I am integrating them into a larger narrative. 

Mental images is a big part of this difficulty. I have experienced this and gone through solutions to get over it. Image role and influence even in our decisions. Understanding root cause, reality and accepting the truce are best solution. Hiding behind unknown cannot help you. 

I am have been there.    

[Bryanp]

I would think that the next time you see the OM do the following:

Go up to him and say what made him think it was acceptable to have sexual intercouse with my wife? If you catch him by surprise, he may simply apologize but then you would know that they actually did have intercourse. Hopefully, he will say that they never had intercourse.

 

[Harry]

It’s your life. What anybody will do doesn’t matter. It’s how you feel and how you deal with this.  Some people one affair and no coming back.  I really don’t believe two adults will stop at oral.  They went all the way unprotected,  

[daveamec]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

It’s your life. What anybody will do doesn’t matter. It’s how you feel and how you deal with this.  Some people one affair and no coming back.  I really don’t believe two adults will stop at oral.  They went all the way unprotected,  

I think the same. They cannot stop at just oral and leave! Something is not true here

[princessaurora]

It's not entirely impossible they stopped at oral. Some people find intercourse more intimate than oral. Especially if they grew up in the 90's. I had a foursome once with a guy i was hot for. I chose to only take part orally. The other 2 girls had intercourse with him, but I didnt want to even though he tried to talk me into it and actually had them leave the room at one point hoping to convince me. Also, my now husband and I had a one year breakup while we were still dating,  I dated others and would engage in oral, but not piv. It just didn't feel right to me and I couldn't bring myself to do it. 

It honestly depends on the person but some people, especially women, are very particular about who they have intercourse with. I've had this discussion at work before with my coworkers and several of them feel the same. 

 Is it possible she had full intercourse with him? Absolutely, people tend to trickle truth when it comes to cheating confessions.  But it's also possible she didn't. 

[daveamec]

1 hour ago, princessaurora said:

It's not entirely impossible they stopped at oral. Some people find intercourse more intimate than oral. Especially if they grew up in the 90's. I had a foursome once with a guy i was hot for. I chose to only take part orally. The other 2 girls had intercourse with him, but I didnt want to even though he tried to talk me into it and actually had them leave the room at one point hoping to convince me. Also, my now husband and I had a one year breakup while we were still dating,  I dated others and would engage in oral, but not piv. It just didn't feel right to me and I couldn't bring myself to do it. 

It honestly depends on the person but some people, especially women, are very particular about who they have intercourse with. I've had this discussion at work before with my coworkers and several of them feel the same. 

 Is it possible she had full intercourse with him? Absolutely, people tend to trickle truth when it comes to cheating confessions.  But it's also possible she didn't. 

I have been in foursome like you said. May be being involved in that process, turned you off even you took part orally. Even the girls left the room, you were still not in mood to take intercourse. 

But it is surprising for me, you dated few in your breakup and ended with all only orally ! Maybe for women, but how all the guys ended with you just oral? Did all got into orgasms? 

My wife cheated on me with full intercourse. But she only said to me they kissed and nothing more.     

[Wiseman2]

Sorry you were cheated on. Unfortunately cheaters lie and minimize, but that has nothing to do with whether every sexual encounter leads to intercourse.  Hopefully she's out of your life now and you've found happiness with a loving honest woman.

[princessaurora]

4 hours ago, daveamec said:

I have been in foursome like you said. May be being involved in that process, turned you off even you took part orally. Even the girls left the room, you were still not in mood to take intercourse. 

But it is surprising for me, you dated few in your breakup and ended with all only orally ! Maybe for women, but how all the guys ended with you just oral? Did all got into orgasms? 

My wife cheated on me with full intercourse. But she only said to me they kissed and nothing more.     

He was hot but also known as a player. i think that was part of it too. I was one of many and they weren't even using protection. He kept trying to get me to have sex with him while they were in the room, and I kept telling him no, I was only doing oral. So he asked them to leave for awhile so he could have a little" talk" with me . I think he figured I didn't want an audience and would have sex with him if it was just the two of us.  But as soon as they left, I  told him I wasn't having intercourse with him. He asked me why not?,, and I told him I didn't want to.  It was pretty pathetic to see this super attractive guy begging for sex when he already had two other girls there who were more than eager to please him. I think he just wanted to feed his ego to the fullest, honestly. Then after he was done with them, he sends them in to brag about how amazing it was and how I'm missing out on some really good d. (I actually heard him through the wall instructing them to tell me how much they enjoyed it)  He told them to send me in again like he's a king waiting on his next courtesan. Of course, I didn't go.  I guess when you typically can  have any woman you want, rejection is a very hard pill to swallow. 

During my one year breakup with my now husband, I never fell out of love, so having intercourse with another felt like a betrayal on my part. But I still knew I had to try and move on with my life because he started having sex with someone right away and there were  6 others besides her. That killed me emotionally. I didn't understand how he could do that after being with me for over 4 years.  But it also made me realize he was perfectly happy living life without me in it and I had to move on.

When I started dating again, I had every intent of giving it my all, but I couldn't bring myself to have sex. They always performed oral on me and with the ones I really liked, I did reciprocate and made sure they finished. But shortly after that when it was time to have intercourse, I ended the relationship. I'm not proud of who I was then or what i did to those guys, because  they were great men who didn't deserve it.  But that was just my life at that time. Trying so desperately to move on when I was still madly in love with someone else. Fortunately,  we ended up getting back together and have been married almost 25 years, but I'll always feel bad for the way I acted that year. 

I'm very sorry your wife cheated on you. @daveamec That is so awful. 

Now as for the OP's wife, another thing that could have stopped the oral from going into intercourse,  is if the friend is the one who interrupted them and he suddenly turned his attention to her,  which means Op's wife felt like a third wheel and left. But since he hasn't told us what the interruption was,  that remains unclear. She admitted she was pursuing him, and her fantasy of having sex with him probably didn't include sharing him with her friend, so that could have ended the encounter if that is what happened. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact she was after another man when already married, though  and why OP tolerated  it.  Her friend was clearly an influence and apparently had no respect for their marriage. She had her doing this at least twice that he knows of.  But, it's been 9  years and they have 2 children now, so he needs to decide if he wants to blow up his whole life and family over something that happened so long ago. Only he can decide that. Regardless, I do feel for you  @JonJ because it is not a good predicament for you to be in. 

 

[daveamec]

33 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

He was hot but also known as a player. i think that was part of it too. I was one of many and they weren't even using protection. He kept trying to get me to have sex with him while they were in the room, and I kept telling him no, I was only doing oral. So he asked them to leave for awhile so he could have a little" talk" with me . I think he figured I didn't want an audience and would have sex with him if it was just the two of us.  But as soon as they left, I  told him I wasn't having intercourse with him. He asked me why not?,, and I told him I didn't want to.  It was pretty pathetic to see this super attractive guy begging for sex when he already had two other girls there who were more than eager to please him. I think he just wanted to feed his ego to the fullest, honestly. Then after he was done with them, he sends them in to brag about how amazing it was and how I'm missing out on some really good d. (I actually heard him through the wall instructing them to tell me how much they enjoyed it)  He told them to send me in again like he's a king waiting on his next courtesan. Of course, I didn't go.  I guess when you typically can  have any woman you want, rejection is a very hard pill to swallow. 

During my one year breakup with my now husband, I never fell out of love, so having intercourse with another felt like a betrayal on my part. But I still knew I had to try and move on with my life because he started having sex with someone right away and there were  6 others besides her. That killed me emotionally. I didn't understand how he could do that after being with me for over 4 years.  But it also made me realize he was perfectly happy living life without me in it and I had to move on.

When I started dating again, I had every intent of giving it my all, but I couldn't bring myself to have sex. They always performed oral on me and with the ones I really liked, I did reciprocate and made sure they finished. But shortly after that when it was time to have intercourse, I ended the relationship. I'm not proud of who I was then or what i did to those guys, because  they were great men who didn't deserve it.  But that was just my life at that time. Trying so desperately to move on when I was still madly in love with someone else. Fortunately,  we ended up getting back together and have been married almost 25 years, but I'll always feel bad for the way I acted that year. 

I'm very sorry your wife cheated on you. @daveamec That is so awful. 

Now as for the OP's wife, another thing that could have stopped the oral from going into intercourse,  is if the friend is the one who interrupted them and he suddenly turned his attention to her,  which means Op's wife felt like a third wheel and left. But since he hasn't told us what the interruption was,  that remains unclear. She admitted she was pursuing him, and her fantasy of having sex with him probably didn't include sharing him with her friend, so that could have ended the encounter if that is what happened. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact she was after another man when already married, though  and why OP tolerated  it.  Her friend was clearly an influence and apparently had no respect for their marriage. She had her doing this at least twice that he knows of.  But, it's been 9  years and they have 2 children now, so he needs to decide if he wants to blow up his whole life and family over something that happened so long ago. Only he can decide that. Regardless, I do feel for you  @JonJ because it is not a good predicament for you to be in. 

 

Thanks.

For your foursome experience, i believe it makes sense with this guy which was pushy and his reaction turned you off.  Maybe if he used protection, that would change your mood. 

I am still confused with your experiences with other guys  even though your husband at the time was enjoying himself. My question is has anyone of the guys you had oral with them, got into orgasm? That would change many things. Did you get into your orgasm by them giving you the oral? This is something That is something can not digest if you leave the intercourse before orgasm? Once yes. But few times?

When I asked my wife, she said they kissed only and nothing more and something interrupted them, and then she regretted that. But later, I found myself she had gone through full oral and intercourse not only once but more. I know at least twice.

By matter is leaving kiss or oral with full orgasm not very likely for guys. May be for woman with strong character is true.  

[princessaurora]

1 hour ago, daveamec said:

For your foursome experience, i believe it makes sense with this guy which was pushy and his reaction turned you off.  Maybe if he used protection, that would change your mood. 

He offered to use protection with me and I still didn't want to have intercourse. I had decided as soon as we started I would participate orally only. Once he started pushing me for more, I left the room. I have always been very selective of who I have sex with. I'm not interested in sharing my body with some guy who just wants to get another notch on his belt, but oral wasn't a big deal for me, so I didn't mind doing that. 

1 hour ago, daveamec said:

I am still confused with your experiences with other guys  even though your husband at the time was enjoying himself. My question is has anyone of the guys you had oral with them, got into orgasm? That would change many things. Did you get into your orgasm by them giving you the oral? This is something That is something can not digest if you leave the intercourse before orgasm? Once yes. But few times?

Yes, the guys I had oral sex with did have orgasms and they gave me orgasms.  That is how I kept them satisfied. I still wanted to please them sexually and be pleased myself, but intercourse  was an emotional thing I couldn't bring myself to do at that time.  I was always  a very relationship material kind of girl. Every guy I ever dated wanted to be my long term boyfriend/ husband. The only guy who ever broke up with me came back a year later and asked me to marry him, which I did.  I was  a great catch, and men were very patient with me for that reason, even my now husband. We dated for over 4 months before we had sex, but bringing each other to orgasm orally was something we started very early in the relationship. 

 

2 hours ago, daveamec said:

When I asked my wife, she said they kissed only and nothing more and something interrupted them, and then she regretted that. But later, I found myself she had gone through full oral and intercourse not only once but more. I know at least twice.

Unfortunately cheating spouses rarely tell the truth, at least in the beginning. Sometimes they come clean later, but you're always left to wonder if you know everything. Sounds like the truth for you turned out to be devastating and once again I am very sorry you had to go through that. But it seems our OP is in a similar position.  Does he have  the full truth? If not, how does he get it when his wife is desperate to protect her family from being torn apart?  She probably figured this was done and buried.  Now it's all being dredged up, and you can even feel a bit sorry for her since she may not even be that person anymore, but she still did something very wrong and OP has every right to want to get to the bottom of it, whether it escalated past oral or not. 

 

2 hours ago, daveamec said:

 

 

[daveamec]

12 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

He offered to use protection with me and I still didn't want to have intercourse. I had decided as soon as we started I would participate orally only. Once he started pushing me for more, I left the room. I have always been very selective of who I have sex with. I'm not interested in sharing my body with some guy who just wants to get another notch on his belt, but oral wasn't a big deal for me, so I didn't mind doing that. 

Yes, the guys I had oral sex with did have orgasms and they gave me orgasms.  That is how I kept them satisfied. I still wanted to please them sexually and be pleased myself, but intercourse  was an emotional thing I couldn't bring myself to do at that time.  I was always  a very relationship material kind of girl. Every guy I ever dated wanted to be my long term boyfriend/ husband. The only guy who ever broke up with me came back a year later and asked me to marry him, which I did.  I was  a great catch, and men were very patient with me for that reason, even my now husband. We dated for over 4 months before we had sex, but bringing each other to orgasm orally was something we started very early in the relationship. 

 

Unfortunately cheating spouses rarely tell the truth, at least in the beginning. Sometimes they come clean later, but you're always left to wonder if you know everything. Sounds like the truth for you turned out to be devastating and once again I am very sorry you had to go through that. But it seems our OP is in a similar position.  Does he have  the full truth? If not, how does he get it when his wife is desperate to protect her family from being torn apart?  She probably figured this was done and buried.  Now it's all being dredged up, and you can even feel a bit sorry for her since she may not even be that person anymore, but she still did something very wrong and OP has every right to want to get to the bottom of it, whether it escalated past oral or not. 

 

 

It is interesting for me. with those guys dating only orally, did you ever happen to encounter them twice? Was none of them enough or OK to take a step deeper with you? I mean resisting few times after pleasant oral sex should have been difficult. 

It is hard for me to believe OP's situation as they did not end with intercourse. My wife' admission is same as we just kissed and never shared the truth. But the reality is they gone beyond that with full intercourse. 

[Harry]

You were lie to.  You made life decisions based alone a lie,  No one can be ok with this.  Swingers know what they are getting into and make decisions based apond that….This was taken away from you.  You can’t feel good 

[princessaurora]

5 hours ago, daveamec said:

It is interesting for me. with those guys dating only orally, did you ever happen to encounter them twice? Was none of them enough or OK to take a step deeper with you? I mean resisting few times after pleasant oral sex should have been difficult. 

It was because I was in love with someone else and I felt I still "belonged" to him. From the moment we met, I knew he was my soulmate. I had never felt such a strong attraction and connection like that. So I couldn't bring myself to betray the person I believed was meant to be my life partner. I just couldn't, even though he easily did. He was able to detach  and have intercourse with multiple women he didn't love.  I was not because once I met him, sex became equated with love and my mindset never changed. So, to answer your question, it wasn't difficult to stop after great oral sex because I wasn't mentally capable of going beyond that, as much as I wish I could have been.  It wasn't that they weren't enough. They were  all attractive, smart, successful men, that I hoped with time I could love the way I loved my ex, but it never happened because my heart was already taken. None of them pressured me for intercourse because they enjoyed my company and were getting good oral and figured intercourse would happen eventually. I actually came very close with my last boyfriend before I got back with my ex/now husband. We were about to have sex, he had the condom on and everything, but I just couldn't  go through with it. I left that night telling him I was sorry and that was the end of our relationship. 

As for seeing them again, that happened with 2 of them. The one I almost had sex with I ran into on a night out with my girlfriends a few months after we were married. I told him I was very sorry and it wasn't anything to do with him. He said " Please tell me the guy you married was the one you told me about when we first started dating."  I told him of course that's who it was and I never meant to hurt him. I really did care for him, but never stopped loving my ex. I'm glad I got to see him again and give him that assurance and closure. The second guy had become a pharmacist and opened his own pharmacy.  My doctor had to call me in a prescription there because mine was out of stock. I knew who he was as soon as I saw him and I knew he probably hated me for dumping him out of nowhere, so I pretended to be on my phone to avoid talking to him.  He married and had a family, but his wife went crazy and they got a divorce. One of my friends ended up matching with him on a dating site and they went out for awhile, but he became an alcoholic after the divorce and she ended it. 

Now getting back to the Op's wife , I just can't imagine  truly loving someone and being able to have intercourse with another. But every relationship is unique and I'm not sure what type of arrangement they had at that point in their marriage. Some people can apparently separate sex from love, but I am not one of them.  I would have never pursued a man once married. I was so faithful, I couldn't even have intercourse with anyone else when I was technically single that year we broke up, but I'm not her. I wouldn't have even put myself in that situation to go hang out with some guy I was hot for when I had made a vow to be faithful to another. What kind of friend was this that encouraged her to cheat on her husband, unless they had an open marriage at that time?  (She sounds like the trash I encountered at a bachelorette party several years ago, who coerced every girl to cheat but me, even the bride to be. ) But if that was not the case, knowing how much it would hurt him should have been reason enough not to go hang with him in that environment, or really at all.

  I 'm human, I've definitely found other men attractive , but I unconditionally love my husband so for me they have always been just eye candy to enjoy at a distance. I never cross any lines and I still have men hitting on me even though I'm in my late 40s, but I'm not going to betray my husband and I'll never understand  how some women can do it so easily.  Hopefully, she stopped at oral because she knew intercourse would be an unforgivable betrayal, and not because her fantasy guy turned his attention toward her friend , if she did actually stop at oral.  But whether or not @JonJ will ever find that out for certain, relies solely on her. 

 

[daveamec]

6 hours ago, princessaurora said:

It was because I was in love with someone else and I felt I still "belonged" to him. From the moment we met, I knew he was my soulmate. I had never felt such a strong attraction and connection like that. So I couldn't bring myself to betray the person I believed was meant to be my life partner. I just couldn't, even though he easily did. He was able to detach  and have intercourse with multiple women he didn't love.  I was not because once I met him, sex became equated with love and my mindset never changed. So, to answer your question, it wasn't difficult to stop after great oral sex because I wasn't mentally capable of going beyond that, as much as I wish I could have been.  It wasn't that they weren't enough. They were  all attractive, smart, successful men, that I hoped with time I could love the way I loved my ex, but it never happened because my heart was already taken. None of them pressured me for intercourse because they enjoyed my company and were getting good oral and figured intercourse would happen eventually. I actually came very close with my last boyfriend before I got back with my ex/now husband. We were about to have sex, he had the condom on and everything, but I just couldn't  go through with it. I left that night telling him I was sorry and that was the end of our relationship. 

As for seeing them again, that happened with 2 of them. The one I almost had sex with I ran into on a night out with my girlfriends a few months after we were married. I told him I was very sorry and it wasn't anything to do with him. He said " Please tell me the guy you married was the one you told me about when we first started dating."  I told him of course that's who it was and I never meant to hurt him. I really did care for him, but never stopped loving my ex. I'm glad I got to see him again and give him that assurance and closure. The second guy had become a pharmacist and opened his own pharmacy.  My doctor had to call me in a prescription there because mine was out of stock. I knew who he was as soon as I saw him and I knew he probably hated me for dumping him out of nowhere, so I pretended to be on my phone to avoid talking to him.  He married and had a family, but his wife went crazy and they got a divorce. One of my friends ended up matching with him on a dating site and they went out for awhile, but he became an alcoholic after the divorce and she ended it. 

Now getting back to the Op's wife , I just can't imagine  truly loving someone and being able to have intercourse with another. But every relationship is unique and I'm not sure what type of arrangement they had at that point in their marriage. Some people can apparently separate sex from love, but I am not one of them.  I would have never pursued a man once married. I was so faithful, I couldn't even have intercourse with anyone else when I was technically single that year we broke up, but I'm not her. I wouldn't have even put myself in that situation to go hang out with some guy I was hot for when I had made a vow to be faithful to another. What kind of friend was this that encouraged her to cheat on her husband, unless they had an open marriage at that time?  (She sounds like the trash I encountered at a bachelorette party several years ago, who coerced every girl to cheat but me, even the bride to be. ) But if that was not the case, knowing how much it would hurt him should have been reason enough not to go hang with him in that environment, or really at all.

  I 'm human, I've definitely found other men attractive , but I unconditionally love my husband so for me they have always been just eye candy to enjoy at a distance. I never cross any lines and I still have men hitting on me even though I'm in my late 40s, but I'm not going to betray my husband and I'll never understand  how some women can do it so easily.  Hopefully, she stopped at oral because she knew intercourse would be an unforgivable betrayal, and not because her fantasy guy turned his attention toward her friend , if she did actually stop at oral.  But whether or not @JonJ will ever find that out for certain, relies solely on her. 

 

Thanks.

Do you think having oral sex with someone is almost a sexual act. I mean you get undress perhaps fully naked, you kiss and then lots of oral sex till full orgasm for both along with lots of touches. Giving a blowjob to a guy and then finishing. Can we not say this is a full sex even no penetration happened. I mean what kind of boundary we are implying here? Both people had a wonderful time, enjoyed each each other and now fully satisfied. If someone is married and do this, isn't this categorized as cheating? I am not talking about your experiences but really just leaving out the penetration makes it different? What a simple penetration would change the concept? Do you agree the Oral sex is also a penetration. 

After you married, has there been any chance for you for oral sex? If there was, would you ever consider it as a full cheating? with feeling hurt? Or if you husband does?    

My wife says to me i only kissed the guy and keep saying nothing else happened and this is not cheating on you. Although i know they had full intercourses and never told her I know, but would i able to move on if that was only a kiss? I am trying to move on even I know they had full intercourse but generally saying that was a simple kiss, would it be helpful?

 

[princessaurora]

17 hours ago, daveamec said:

Do you think having oral sex with someone is almost a sexual act. I mean you get undress perhaps fully naked, you kiss and then lots of oral sex till full orgasm for both along with lots of touches. Giving a blowjob to a guy and then finishing. Can we not say this is a full sex even no penetration happened. I mean what kind of boundary we are implying here? Both people had a wonderful time, enjoyed each each other and now fully satisfied. If someone is married and do this, isn't this categorized as cheating? I am not talking about your experiences but really just leaving out the penetration makes it different? What a simple penetration would change the concept? Do you agree the Oral sex is also a penetration. 

Oral is definitely a sexual act, but not quite as damning as intercourse. Some people may disagree, that's just my stance. I definitely consider it cheating but I also consider kissing,  cheating too. I don't consider it penetration because it does not involve piv. With intercouse,  your most private part is entering someone else's most private part and it is a complete union of two people. It is the most sacred act in a monogamous relationship. It also potentially ties you to another person should a pregnancy occur. It is the ultimate betrayal in a marriage and often puts the nail in the coffin for the betrayed spouse. 

If you ever follow infidelity stories, you'll often see how the cheater starts off with "we just kissed", then as the suspicion rises "we made out", then "he/ she went down on me". At that point the betrayed spouse is infuriated and thinking about leaving. But, once they find out there was full blown intercourse, more times than not they are absolutely,  positively, done because it is so heartbreaking to discover. And the big thing is once the cheater confirms they had oral sex, the betrayed spouse will always wonder if they did go all the way and it will slowly eat away at the betrayed spouse and destroy all trust,  unless they get some serious counseling. Even then reconciliation often fails because who's to say he/she won't do it again? 

 

[Gebidozo]

8 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

Oral is definitely a sexual act, but not quite as damning as intercourse. Some people may disagree, that's just my stance. I definitely consider it cheating but I also consider kissing,  cheating too. I don't consider it penetration because it does not involve piv. With intercouse,  your most private part is entering someone else's most private part and it is a complete union of two people. It is the most sacred act in a monogamous relationship. It also potentially ties you to another person should a pregnancy occur. It is the ultimate betrayal in a marriage and often puts the nail in the coffin for the betrayed spouse. 

If you ever follow infidelity stories, you'll often see how the cheater starts off with "we just kissed", then as the suspicion rises "we made out", then "he/ she went down on me". At that point the betrayed spouse is infuriated and thinking about leaving. But, once they find out there was full blown intercourse, more times than not they are absolutely,  positively, done because it is so heartbreaking to discover. And the big thing is once the cheater confirms they had oral sex, the betrayed spouse will always wonder if they did go all the way and it will slowly eat away at the betrayed spouse and destroy all trust,  unless they get some serious counseling. Even then reconciliation often fails because who's to say he/she won't do it again? 

 

Personally, I could never understand this weird insistence that oral sex is “not really sex”, or a less intimate act than PIV sex.

Of course it is sex, and of course it is very intimate, in a different way than PIV intercourse perhaps, but extremely intimate nevertheless. I know people who feel that oral sex is MORE intimate than PIV sex. 

In any case, it’s complete and full cheating, no better and no worse than PIV cheating. I tend to agree that passionate kissing under those circumstances is cheating, too. 

[daveamec]

7 hours ago, princessaurora said:

Oral is definitely a sexual act, but not quite as damning as intercourse. Some people may disagree, that's just my stance. I definitely consider it cheating but I also consider kissing,  cheating too. I don't consider it penetration because it does not involve piv. With intercouse,  your most private part is entering someone else's most private part and it is a complete union of two people. It is the most sacred act in a monogamous relationship. It also potentially ties you to another person should a pregnancy occur. It is the ultimate betrayal in a marriage and often puts the nail in the coffin for the betrayed spouse. 

If you ever follow infidelity stories, you'll often see how the cheater starts off with "we just kissed", then as the suspicion rises "we made out", then "he/ she went down on me". At that point the betrayed spouse is infuriated and thinking about leaving. But, once they find out there was full blown intercourse, more times than not they are absolutely,  positively, done because it is so heartbreaking to discover. And the big thing is once the cheater confirms they had oral sex, the betrayed spouse will always wonder if they did go all the way and it will slowly eat away at the betrayed spouse and destroy all trust,  unless they get some serious counseling. Even then reconciliation often fails because who's to say he/she won't do it again? 

 

I believe Oral is penetration for sure. The fact that no pregnancy would happen, is not something we can minimize the action and its consequences . Penetration happens but in other format and for me as a male, it would hurt even more by seeing that. I experienced that and this is my feeling. It may be different from women' perspective.   

When my wife cheated on me, the part of oral and their action was more hurtful and memorable than actual intercourse. One thing I have not been able to take off my mind is actually the oral and not the intercourse. That tells me the reality and its damage how that section would sit into memory than other stuff. Buy why??

That is why coming to OP's topic, I believe what she did is evern more damageable than actual intercourse if it has happened or not !!

 

 

[happyhorizons]

7 hours ago, princessaurora said:

Oral is definitely a sexual act, but not quite as damning as intercourse. Some people may disagree, that's just my stance. I definitely consider it cheating but I also consider kissing,  cheating too. I don't consider it penetration because it does not involve piv. With intercouse,  your most private part is entering someone else's most private part and it is a complete union of two people. It is the most sacred act in a monogamous relationship. It also potentially ties you to another person should a pregnancy occur. It is the ultimate betrayal in a marriage and often puts the nail in the coffin for the betrayed spouse. 

If you ever follow infidelity stories, you'll often see how the cheater starts off with "we just kissed", then as the suspicion rises "we made out", then "he/ she went down on me". At that point the betrayed spouse is infuriated and thinking about leaving. But, once they find out there was full blown intercourse, more times than not they are absolutely,  positively, done because it is so heartbreaking to discover. And the big thing is once the cheater confirms they had oral sex, the betrayed spouse will always wonder if they did go all the way and it will slowly eat away at the betrayed spouse and destroy all trust,  unless they get some serious counseling. Even then reconciliation often fails because who's to say he/she won't do it again? 

 

I think that most interpersonal acts of affection would be crossing the LINE....it's cheating pure and simple