Relationship ending?

[Brambling]

2 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

But no one talked about that: I just wanted to kiss you, that is what I've said. And she rejected me because it will create more problems. 

It caught me really offguard because there were no signs of this

It sounds like a kiss means more to her than to you, but she's not able to explain her reasons yet? 

Are you really 'fuming'? Meaning you're very very angry, like you've been wronged big time. 

[basil67]

You told her that you're not ready for a relationship, so she's exactly right that kissing will create more problems.  She doesn't want to get caught up with emotional or sexy feelings for a guy who isn't available.  Is this really so hard to understand?

While I appreciate that you're upset, I can't see any grounds for you to feel wronged

 

[Placebeyondthepines]

@Brambling & @basil67

I didn't talk about relationships, she started saying that she is fine with being all alone. And I agree, if she doesn't want a relationship it will create more problems.

Why I feel wronged:

- we were talking non stop, from day to evening, for over 1 month now.

- We were flirting, doing that dance and going on dates, we were sending each others our outfit for the day or what we ate. We were bonding, closer and closer.

- This week I was talking with her more about doing things after her coming over on saturday. I've Invited her for the following weekend to see my flat because I am almost done with renovating and she couldn't, but In a second SHE found another solution, the following day.

- All the signs were she was into me. I mean who does that with someone who is not interested with?

 

Now:

Why wait and come over and do that? Why? She brought a special bottle of wine she got on her birthday. Who does that? Friday I am telling you I can't wait to have a wonderful time with you on Saturday and she replied that she is also excited.

I recall she told me when it started: You've given me time to think and that is not good.

We were meeting once per week, yeah, because I was focusing on finishing the renovations (And she was very interesting in everything I was doing). And she knew I was out of a relationship. I wanted to take things slow.

I don't understand. I really don't.

I am a rational type and tried to understand what is she saying, and at some point she became defensive: I think we are over discussing this - and it was super odd. I was trying to talk about it and tell her about the fact that how we were moving towards this. I felt we needed to talk more about it.

After our first date, she went out with her friend and she was tipsy and ask me to come over where she was and refused because: 1. I was not sure it would be a good idea 2. I didn't want to look too available.

We spoke non stop that night and while going home, she sent me drunk texts. 

My conclusion is: I've told her that my renovations is coming to an end and I want to see her more, spend time with her and she realized she doesn't want a relationship, I think she saw me relationship potential and realized her freedom is more important? Is that something that sounds right? Or I am softing it? Because she kept repeating she likes me a lot.

And Yesterday it was terrible, i've got the cold shoulder and saw she made a tremendous step back.

Walked all day, did almost 40K steps and met friends to "decompress" yesterday. And later in the night I tried to be my usual self and wrote her: "Your palms are also itching, right?" on the idea she wants to write me like she usually did. Her response was after two hours asking me about the renovations and I also responded with "that is what she said" a joke we really used and she seen it, without any reply.

So yeah, I am fuming, about to explode. 

Edited March 18, 2024 by Placebeyondthepines

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

So yeah, I am fuming, about to explode. 

This isn't just about this specific woman. 

It's normal to be disappointed when something doesn't go as we hoped. But fuming to the point of explosion is objectively disproportionate to how much time you have actually spent with her, and the perceived "wrong." 

Either you really let your expectations get carried away here, or your past hurts are amplifying your reaction to this particular incident. There seems to be a lot of leftover hurt, anger and resentment from your break-up bubbling away under the surface. Now that you have experienced a let-down, the top has blown off. 

Maybe take some time off to be single for a while, and really let yourself heal. You tried to move pretty quickly into a new situation but it is evident you're not ready for it yet. Once you've truly moved on from your ex and are not so emtionally raw, you will be able to withstand a disappointment such as this one without feeling like you're fuming and ready to explode. 

[Placebeyondthepines]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

or your past hurts are amplifying your reaction to this particular incident. There seems to be a lot of leftover hurt, anger and resentment from your break-up bubbling away under the surface. Now that you have experienced a let-down, the top has blown off. 

This is absolutely 100% spot on.

I am sure this is what happened. She blew the top off.

I think, at the moment, she was the the toe that broke the camel's back. And because I felt I did everything right and was shocked to the core when she started going back. You have to understand, and maybe it doesn't come out right, but we really spoke 24/7 and flirting.

And why make plans with me next week when you know you are about to tell me that?

It does not make sense at all. I mean, there wasn't a crack where I could see this coming, most of all there was no pressure from my part at all.

I swear, saturday I was so happy all day before she came. 

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

@Brambling & @basil67

I didn't talk about relationships, she started saying that she is fine with being all alone. And I agree, if she doesn't want a relationship it will create more problems.

Why I feel wronged:

- we were talking non stop, from day to evening, for over 1 month now.

- We were flirting, doing that dance and going on dates, we were sending each others our outfit for the day or what we ate. We were bonding, closer and closer.

- This week I was talking with her more about doing things after her coming over on saturday. I've Invited her for the following weekend to see my flat because I am almost done with renovating and she couldn't, but In a second SHE found another solution, the following day.

- All the signs were she was into me. I mean who does that with someone who is not interested with?

 

Now:

Why wait and come over and do that? Why? She brought a special bottle of wine she got on her birthday. Who does that? Friday I am telling you I can't wait to have a wonderful time with you on Saturday and she replied that she is also excited.

I recall she told me when it started: You've given me time to think and that is not good.

We were meeting once per week, yeah, because I was focusing on finishing the renovations (And she was very interesting in everything I was doing). And she knew I was out of a relationship. I wanted to take things slow.

I don't understand. I really don't.

I am a rational type and tried to understand what is she saying, and at some point she became defensive: I think we are over discussing this - and it was super odd. I was trying to talk about it and tell her about the fact that how we were moving towards this. I felt we needed to talk more about it.

After our first date, she went out with her friend and she was tipsy and ask me to come over where she was and refused because: 1. I was not sure it would be a good idea 2. I didn't want to look too available.

We spoke non stop that night and while going home, she sent me drunk texts. 

My conclusion is: I've told her that my renovations is coming to an end and I want to see her more, spend time with her and she realized she doesn't want a relationship, I think she saw me relationship potential and realized her freedom is more important? Is that something that sounds right? Or I am softing it? Because she kept repeating she likes me a lot.

And Yesterday it was terrible, i've got the cold shoulder and saw she made a tremendous step back.

Walked all day, did almost 40K steps and met friends to "decompress" yesterday. And later in the night I tried to be my usual self and wrote her: "Your palms are also itching, right?" on the idea she wants to write me like she usually did. Her response was after two hours asking me about the renovations and I also responded with "that is what she said" a joke we really used and she seen it, without any reply.

So yeah, I am fuming, about to explode. 

Ok, so she's dated you for a bit.  While you were warming up to a relationship with her, she was cooling off on you.  And you're now fuming because she wasn't into you in that way. This is dating!  One person doesn't always feel as the other does....heck, I learned this lesson when I was 16yo.  Yes, it's disappointing, but "fuming" can only happen if one is feeling entitled.

Do you understand that an individual has the right to say no to a kiss (or more) if they don't want it?  It's "Consent 101" 

[Placebeyondthepines]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Ok, so she's dated you for a bit.  While you were warming up to a relationship with her, she was cooling off on you.  And you're now fuming because she wasn't into you in that way. This is dating!  One person doesn't always feel as the other does....heck, I learned this lesson when I was 16yo.  Yes, it's disappointing, but "fuming" can only happen if one is feeling entitled.

Do you understand that an individual has the right to say no to a kiss (or more) if they don't want it?  It's "Consent 101" 

Of course, she has the right

but why she came? She cooled off when I wanted to kiss her. If somebody doesn't feel the same, doesn't that person bail out? Or show cracks?

Why is she acting like she is buzzing to come over? Why was she making plans with me for next week? Why not overcomplicate things?

I don't feel entitled not even in a percent. I am fuming on myself, not because she didn't kiss me. I am fuming because, like Expat said above, she blew the top off, but also I didn't talk about relationships with her at all, just wanted to take things crescendo, and I feel she was annoyed by that, hence the "you let me think" phrase.

I don't want to come as entitled, I just find it super-super-super odd. 

I hope I've been clear about where I came from and what is wrong, imho.

 

 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

And why make plans with me next week when you know you are about to tell me that?

We won't be able to answer that, but I see why it is confusing for you. 

1 hour ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

It does not make sense at all

And it might never make sense. You don't know her well enough to make much of a guess as to what went sideways. It won't serve you to go over and over the details and questons you will likely never have an answer to. 

The point is that when we are in a stronger place, we can accept that we will experience frustration and disappointment in dating, but also that we can face that without feeling like we're going to explode in the process. Take some cooling-off time, and give yourself the space you really need to heal from your last break-up. Those underlying hurts will make dating a lot more emotionally-draining that it needs to be. 

 

[Placebeyondthepines]

12 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

We won't be able to answer that, but I see why it is confusing for you. 

And it might never make sense. You don't know her well enough to make much of a guess as to what went sideways. It won't serve you to go over and over the details and questons you will likely never have an answer to. 

The point is that when we are in a stronger place, we can accept that we will experience frustration and disappointment in dating, but also that we can face that without feeling like we're going to explode in the process. Take some cooling-off time, and give yourself the space you really need to heal from your last break-up. Those underlying hurts will make dating a lot more emotionally-draining that it needs to be. 

 

You know what is bittersweet?

That she made me forget how my relationship ended? And made the sadness go away.

So I have to ask, why am I happy when I am with people? Because I was certain my whole life I was ok with myself.

[ExpatInItaly]

4 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

That she made me forget how my relationship ended? And made the sadness go away.

This is why I am saying it was too soon for you to date. 

She was a painkiller for your pre-existing hurt, and now that the painkiller has worn off, you're realizing the pain is indeed still there. 

[Placebeyondthepines]

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

This is why I am saying it was too soon for you to date. 

She was a painkiller for your pre-existing hurt, and now that the painkiller has worn off, you're realizing the pain is indeed still there. 

I really can't argue with that.

Yet, she took my mind completely off my ex. 

And of course I am worried about dating, the last time I did was in 2015 and usually people wouldn't let it go this far. Actively dating, because I wasn't looking with my ex and with this one.

 

[Placebeyondthepines]

Thank God for therapy, I can tell you that.

Helped me find my way to calibrate myself.

[Alpacalia]

8 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

Of course, she has the right

but why she came? She cooled off when I wanted to kiss her. If somebody doesn't feel the same, doesn't that person bail out? Or show cracks?

Why is she acting like she is buzzing to come over? Why was she making plans with me for next week? Why not overcomplicate things?

I don't feel entitled not even in a percent. I am fuming on myself, not because she didn't kiss me. I am fuming because, like Expat said above, she blew the top off, but also I didn't talk about relationships with her at all, just wanted to take things crescendo, and I feel she was annoyed by that, hence the "you let me think" phrase.

I don't want to come as entitled, I just find it super-super-super odd. 

I hope I've been clear about where I came from and what is wrong, imho.

Okay so I hate to admit this but one time I was mid-fooling around with someone I met on vacation and I was really, really attracted to him. But, there was a part of me that just couldn't move forward with it. I really, really liked the guy and I feared that if we took it any further, that I wouldn't respect myself. 

Trust me, it was not for a lack of attraction or chemistry or etc. I guess what I am saying is that you could very well be right in that there is something that she is not telling you. I don't think it's that she's not attracted to you, not since she was sooo into the kissing. Trying to put myself in her shoes, if man was just out of a relationship and now wanting to get physical, I would be worried about that.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

Of course, she has the right

but why she came? She cooled off when I wanted to kiss her. If somebody doesn't feel the same, doesn't that person bail out? Or show cracks?

Why is she acting like she is buzzing to come over? Why was she making plans with me for next week? Why not overcomplicate things?

I don't feel entitled not even in a percent. I am fuming on myself, not because she didn't kiss me. I am fuming because, like Expat said above, she blew the top off, but also I didn't talk about relationships with her at all, just wanted to take things crescendo, and I feel she was annoyed by that, hence the "you let me think" phrase.

I don't want to come as entitled, I just find it super-super-super odd. 

I hope I've been clear about where I came from and what is wrong, imho.

She came because she thought the two of you were great buddies and were going to have a great time.  Given that you weren't ready for a relationship, this is not an outrageous assumption on her part

[Placebeyondthepines]

I wanted to write her the following message later on this week, because I didn't like how things ended, but:

1. I am certain I will come out too intense.

2. I am certain will come out also as desperate 

So I dropped the idea after I've finished writing it for me, but want to share it, at least this way I know I am not sending it to her.

I wanted to write this to you because I feel that I owe it to you and I also owe it to myself because I don't like how things turned out, plus I didn't necessarily wanted to write you when things were still hot. I guess, like you, it wasn't the best week for me either and I clearly missed you and I think it was the same for you, there were many moments when I wanted to write you something stupid, but I - I resisted and I think you wanted to do the same. The thing is, I want to be honest with you and I didn't expect there to be such a lovely bonding between us and so alert, because, the thing is, when we met for the first time, I had been out of that relationship for three weeks, and I didn't mention that. And I didn't know about myself, and I don't know about myself, but I didn't expect everything to be so nice either. And I'm sorry that I didn't do anything when I was supposed to, but I wanted to know that everything was in order for me before I did absolutely anything, and that's why I hesitated. And I've heard you since you first told me in that you're fine alone, don't think I ignored you. And I'm sorry that I told you that I don't want you in my life on Saturday, because I saw how you felt and I didn't want that, but I know how this goes and I think we were going to hurt each other, which is the last thing i want. And I don't want to lie to each other that we will see each other in the future, because you also know that it is not ok and we will start over, I don't think we have any other choice. And I wanted to thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet you & build this flow in which I think I had the chance to see you as few do. I really think you're an extraordinary person and I'm lucky to know you, as crazy as you think you are. I miss you more than I expected, I like you as much as you do and I hope that at some point we will cross paths in this life when we are both okay. A tremendous kiss. PS: That is what she said.

[Placebeyondthepines]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

She came because she thought the two of you were great buddies and were going to have a great time.  Given that you weren't ready for a relationship, this is not an outrageous assumption on her part

But there we were flirty all the time, how did she get that impression?

[Wiseman2]

Please don't send this. Your interpretation of the events is interesting. You seem to think lunging in for the kiss was appropriate, you were a bit nasty and snarky about "having enough friends", as if she owes you something and you asked her to come over again just hours after a date ended.

Ironically this all sounds like pushiness and smothering but you strangely thought you weren't forward enough? 

Agree you may not be ready to date if the same pushy needy patterns are emerging. And especially unleashing a tsunami of hate on this unsuspecting woman because you're still angry at your ex.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

But there we were flirty all the time, how did she get that impression?

For starters, flirting doesn't necessary have to lead to more.  It can just be flirting for flirting's sake.  

Further, why are you still blaming her for getting it wrong when your (unsent) message is acknowledging that you could have done things differently.   Is the message just bravado?  Or have you recognised that it's not all on her?

Edited March 18, 2024 by basil67

[Gebidozo]

3 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

I wanted to write her the following message later on this week, because I didn't like how things ended, but:

1. I am certain I will come out too intense.

2. I am certain will come out also as desperate 

So I dropped the idea after I've finished writing it for me, but want to share it, at least this way I know I am not sending it to her.

I wanted to write this to you because I feel that I owe it to you and I also owe it to myself because I don't like how things turned out, plus I didn't necessarily wanted to write you when things were still hot. I guess, like you, it wasn't the best week for me either and I clearly missed you and I think it was the same for you, there were many moments when I wanted to write you something stupid, but I - I resisted and I think you wanted to do the same. The thing is, I want to be honest with you and I didn't expect there to be such a lovely bonding between us and so alert, because, the thing is, when we met for the first time, I had been out of that relationship for three weeks, and I didn't mention that. And I didn't know about myself, and I don't know about myself, but I didn't expect everything to be so nice either. And I'm sorry that I didn't do anything when I was supposed to, but I wanted to know that everything was in order for me before I did absolutely anything, and that's why I hesitated. And I've heard you since you first told me in that you're fine alone, don't think I ignored you. And I'm sorry that I told you that I don't want you in my life on Saturday, because I saw how you felt and I didn't want that, but I know how this goes and I think we were going to hurt each other, which is the last thing i want. And I don't want to lie to each other that we will see each other in the future, because you also know that it is not ok and we will start over, I don't think we have any other choice. And I wanted to thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet you & build this flow in which I think I had the chance to see you as few do. I really think you're an extraordinary person and I'm lucky to know you, as crazy as you think you are. I miss you more than I expected, I like you as much as you do and I hope that at some point we will cross paths in this life when we are both okay. A tremendous kiss. PS: That is what she said.

It appears that what bothers you most is that you don’t understand her behavior. You’re feeling furious because you don’t understand. Believe me, I’ve been there, and sometimes I’m still there. As cliché as it sounds, women are hard to understand. Or, better to say, men are often one-dimensionally bent on primitive, selfish logic, therefore having trouble understanding women. Take a deep breath and start accepting that you might never understand some things. You must learn to just let those things be. Don’t try to understand her for now. If you really have feelings for her, send her a short message telling her just that. You being fussy, inquisitive and pushy is the last thing you guys need right now.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

9 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

I wanted to write her the following message later on this week, because I didn't like how things ended, but:

1. I am certain I will come out too intense.

2. I am certain will come out also as desperate 

Yes indeed, both 1 and 2 are accruate. I am glad you didn't send that message. 

Again, I would urge you to really think about what is behind all this emotional intensity. Your focus right now is on her and her seemingly sudden shift, but greater personal progress will come when you untangle your own emotions that are influencing your current reaction to this. 

Keep writing it out here. It will help you get these things off your mind. 

Edited March 19, 2024 by ExpatInItaly

[Placebeyondthepines]

8 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Please don't send this. Your interpretation of the events is interesting. You seem to think lunging in for the kiss was appropriate, you were a bit nasty and snarky about "having enough friends", as if she owes you something and you asked her to come over again just hours after a date ended.

Ironically this all sounds like pushiness and smothering but you strangely thought you weren't forward enough? 

Agree you may not be ready to date if the same pushy needy patterns are emerging. And especially unleashing a tsunami of hate on this unsuspecting woman because you're still angry at your ex.

I was a bit nasty and snarky, I agree, because I was feeling I was getting the friendzone and I didn't want to have any of that. The second part, I didn't ask her to come over, but to meet somewhere & to be honest, I was testing the waters to see how she is reacting. 

The pushiness & smothering part I don't see it accurate. I took things really slow.

[Placebeyondthepines]

8 hours ago, basil67 said:

For starters, flirting doesn't necessary have to lead to more.  It can just be flirting for flirting's sake.  

Further, why are you still blaming her for getting it wrong when your (unsent) message is acknowledging that you could have done things differently.   Is the message just bravado?  Or have you recognised that it's not all on her?

It's both. I want to say something to her, I feel I need to tell her something. I can't say it's not a part of bravado & it's not all of her, but I really do not blame myself for acting faster. I had to make sense of all of it before doing anything.

Like Gebidozo said below your reply is the sum up of all of this, and that is that "what bothers you most is that you don’t understand her behavior".

Exactly that. 

Don't get me wrong, people are allowed to change their minds, just feel that the way it happened it's absolutely mental.

[Placebeyondthepines]

6 hours ago, Gebidozo said:

It appears that what bothers you most is that you don’t understand her behavior. You’re feeling furious because you don’t understand. Believe me, I’ve been there, and sometimes I’m still there. As cliché as it sounds, women are hard to understand. Or, better to say, men are often one-dimensionally bent on primitive, selfish logic, therefore having trouble understanding women. Take a deep breath and start accepting that you might never understand some things. You must learn to just let those things be. Don’t try to understand her for now. If you really have feelings for her, send her a short message telling her just that. You being fussy, inquisitive and pushy is the last thing you guys need right now.

 

I want to send her a message, but really I would come out as desperate.

What would I say?

[Placebeyondthepines]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes indeed, both 1 and 2 are accruate. I am glad you didn't send that message. 

Again, I would urge you to really think about what is behind all this emotional intensity. Your focus right now is on her and her seemingly sudden shift, but greater personal progress will come when you untangle your own emotions that are influencing your current reaction to this. 

Keep writing it out here. It will help you get these things off your mind. 

This is what my therapist is trying to do.

She feels I have a pattern of unhealthy women I seem to choose both mostly attract and yes, my current emotions are influencing my current reaction.

I've told her she is right, but with the last one, it was too soon to tell she is unhealthy.

What I feel, and surely, might be incorrect, but my current reaction is towards me and I use her as an excuse. It is towards me I've allowed myself to be here again, to open myself towards some people, to be vulnerable in front of them and then to end up right here again. The "nice guys finish last" vibe.

And, of course, like Gebidozo said, I can't understand her behaviour. I am a rational man who needs an explanation, so of course my brain blew up.

[ExpatInItaly]

You emotionally invested way too much in someone you hardly knew.