Relationship ending?

[an0nym0us123]

40 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

@Alpacalia

To be honest. I was hoping she will reach out and give me a sign. But she didn't so far and most likely will not tonight.

So no sign is actually a sign. Not the one I was hoping for, but I can't deny it.

As a man you must remain centered at all times in front of women no matter what they do to upset you. Don't reach out, you are in fact sending a message by doing nothing- that you are strong and can move on without her. If she does reach out don't act too excited. Remember you were trying your best to support her and she through it in your face. Not much thanks for trying to be a loving partner.

[Alpacalia]

15 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

From what I understand from her, I am the second longest relationship. She didn't manage to keep hold of relationship.

The first longest was with a guy she met and moved into another country to live with him, without dating him, into his home. It was a disaster, but they lasted 2.5 years. And before me she had a thing with a younger guy, 20-21 something for 6 months.

I know you're heartbroken right now, and part of the reason you're hurting is because she's going through so much. The other part reason you're hurting is that you're a sensitive and caring person, and your heart is made to empathize with others. Because of that, you feel what she's feeling and you feel it just as intensely.

But the danger here is for you to focus on her and not on yourself. You must take care of yourself. You can't use all of your time and energy to worry about and care about what she's going through. You need to give yourself a little space and some distance. You need to get better on your own, as much as it hurts, too. You have been fighting beside her as hard as you could, and trying to be understanding and patient. That was a true labor of love. But right now you need to focus on your fight. The fight for you.

Give yourself some time to heal. You need to do things - both big and small - to take care of yourself, to nourish and nurture your own attitude and your own life. That's hard to do when you're feeling low and heartbroken, but it's nonetheless absolutely necessary.

I really believe that you did everything right while you were with her. And you are who you are because you have the kind of heart that you do. You have an unbelievable ability for empathy, which is a precious gift that you have. But you can't make her well, especially at the cost of breaking your own spirit. As important as your love for her is, you can never let it obscure the absolute imperative to love, take care of and be kind to yourself.

[Placebeyondthepines]

@an0nym0us123

I will not reach out, that's clearly. I did yesterday and she mostly ignored me, so no way I am doing that again.

@Alpacalia

Thank you for your wonderful and amazing words.

I am just in denial right now. I want future me to time travel and give me a proper slap, or even past me before this relationship. I tried to sleep and constantly I was turning from side to side, in pain, while from time to time checking my phone to see if she wrote me something. This week will wait every evening for her video call me, like she usually does.

But the sad/funny part is if she calls, if she want to reach out, I can't forgive her for the pain I felt yesterday, I felt abandoned, alone. Like I was not enough, like everything that I've done, was not enough. And that is what is hurting me the most. Maybe I am not enough.

I sweat, it would have been so easily to hear: I just don't love you no more.

 

[ExpatInItaly]

You're enough, OP. 

That doesn't mean that you and she were right for each other any longer, though. 

 

[Placebeyondthepines]

10 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You're enough, OP. 

That doesn't mean that you and she were right for each other any longer, though. 

 

You are talking sense, of course, but it surely feels that way.

I've been talking to some other people online about this and someone asked me what do I understand from enough. I wrote what and their response was: not one of the things you mentioned above builds or maintains her desire for you, respect for your or attraction to you. Because I accepted her mood swings, things led to this.

So, being faithful, being there for the one you love, being someone who offers stability means that you are weak? You are a doormat? 

Because I am guessing this might be the case here. One of the reasons and it happened to me before.

And I want to make it clear, I was never needy, non stop available or put someone on the pedestral. But I offered my all when I was in love. 

But yeah, I do not understand how being loyal is unatractive.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

But yeah, I do not understand how being loyal is unatractive.

That's because it's not. Whoever is telling you this is full of equine manure. 

Please be careful about reading this crap online. It's often written by embittered folks who were dumped and they don't understand why so they crow about nice guys (or gals) finishing last, but it's rarely that simple. You can be a good partner and still find that the relationship doesn't work for all sorts of reasons. 

Your ex has other things going on in her life. Maybe it did all get too overwhelming for her, or maybe she started losing feelings for you a while ago. Perhaps it's a combination of all of this. You might never get full clarity on that. But in time, the reasons will become less important and your recovery from the break-up will be your focus. She wasn't a great partner to you over the last several months, it seems. She pushed you away, and it can't have felt very nice to be shut out like that. Someday, you will meet a woman who is a better match for you. This woman no longer was. 

 

[Wiseman2]

19 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

: not one of the things you mentioned above builds or maintains her desire for you, respect for your or attraction to you. being faithful, being there for the one you love, being someone who offers stability means that you are weak? You are a doormat? 

 

Agree. Please don't go down the manosphere rabbit hole about treating women like dirt builds attraction, etc. 

Sadly she just needed space and she has been asking you for that for a long time including asking you to stop talking about moving in and stop staying at her place that much. 

It's understandable you're upset and hurt about the breakup and need to process everything.. especially that this time she asked you to leave for good. 

Some people feel much more stressed by being crowded and suffocated. You seem to be someone who needs a lot of attention, time together, etc. so unfortunately you've been incompatible for a long time and that leads to frustration on both sides..

[Placebeyondthepines]

19 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

 

 

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

 

Thank you to the both of you.

I am just thinking there is somehow a pattern here. My two previous relationship had this "my availability in". One ended because distance, but she mentioned I was too available to make time and skype her, which was insane from my point of view. The other one was after I had two deaths in my family and I had to take care of everything because there are not brothers or sisters, and she told me I wasn't emotionally available during that struggle.

I don't want to go into that macho bull, I really do not. But here is an example on Thursday: I arrived at her place, she was watching a series on tv and I started reading. Couldn't do that because she was trying to get my attention: biting me, hugging me, hitting my book.

So I gave her the attention, but lasted 5 minutes, she was back to being moody.

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

One ended because distance, but she mentioned I was too available to make time and skype her, which was insane from my point of view.

A woman who is really into you is going to appreciate that you make time and connect. 

The only time that would be a problem is if you had no life outside the relationship and pressured her to be in touch with you. Otherwise, it's simply an excuse. 

1 hour ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

Couldn't do that because she was trying to get my attention: biting me, hugging me, hitting my book.

Pardon me? 

[Placebeyondthepines]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

. Pardon me? 

Love bites and everything, not violent. Like a kid looking for my attention.

She did this mostly in our relationship when I wasn't, I don't want to say ignoring her, but doing something else.

Sure, sounds like she is selfish and those are some reactions of "how dare you not pay attention to me?".

[Alpacalia]

5 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

@an0nym0us123

I will not reach out, that's clearly. I did yesterday and she mostly ignored me, so no way I am doing that again.

@Alpacalia

Thank you for your wonderful and amazing words.

I am just in denial right now. I want future me to time travel and give me a proper slap, or even past me before this relationship. I tried to sleep and constantly I was turning from side to side, in pain, while from time to time checking my phone to see if she wrote me something. This week will wait every evening for her video call me, like she usually does.

But the sad/funny part is if she calls, if she want to reach out, I can't forgive her for the pain I felt yesterday, I felt abandoned, alone. Like I was not enough, like everything that I've done, was not enough. And that is what is hurting me the most. Maybe I am not enough.

I sweat, it would have been so easily to hear: I just don't love you no more.

 

I feel for you. I remember during a breakup, I must have slept with his t-shirt wrapped in my arms for days sobbing. Having his t-shirt and the smell of him was 1 little thing that I could hold on to. I asked some trusted close friends to plan stuff with me, even invited someone to the house for a week to keep my mind off the situation. I also took some personal days off from work to reset my life. I removed all my artwork and pillows off my bed, put my linens on a hot setting in the washer (no more smells to trigger memories), and bought a new bed set. It felt like overkill, until one day, it helped me get out of bed and face another day. The physical acts could have been part of the grieving perhaps.  

I know you feel like you weren't good enough but try to reframe it. Maybe you were great for your time and had good memories, and helped each other grow but now there is something that doesn't work anymore for them. They weren't wanting to fight it through anymore.

You are still great and being hurt but in time, you will see that the relationship ending doesn't mean you're not great.

Sending virtual hugs your way.

Edited January 22 by Alpacalia

[Placebeyondthepines]

@Alpacalia

Thank you, at the moment I am doing the first step: seeking a therapist to book a session with.

The second is saving and hide the pictures I have on the phone. It's stupid, maybe it's harsh, but this what I feel I need to do at the moment. Iphone as this habit on showing you memories at they are hurting.

Still no contact so I reckon this is it. She made her decision and she is keeping it. I need to start and do mine.

Today I was working from home and during breaks I was talking outloud about what I feel. Might sound stupid, but it helped.

[Acacia98]

So sorry for what you're going through, OP. Taking the time to grieve the end of your relationship is really important. So is being kind to yourself.

As an outsider who doesn't know much about you and your ex, I get the impression that there were always clouds hanging over your relationship. From what you say, she has always had debilitating mental health struggles but has not gone through the process of being diagnosed and put on medication, and whatever therapy she undergoes has not been working. I think based on that alone, the end of your relationship was inevitable.

Imagine getting a serious leg injury but not getting it seen by a professional. You reckon it'll heal, it'll fix itself. Well, it doesn't heal. But you get used to gritting your teeth and living through the pain whenever you engage in your typical daily activities. Over time, the pain gets worse and the damage spreads because you're not doing anything to fix the problem and you're putting too much stress on your leg. And then one day you just collapse. And now you can't walk. And you can't go to work. And your only hope is to get yourself to hospital. That's an analogy for what your ex might be going through. And the thing is this: you couldn't have done anything to prevent her ultimate collapse. The only person who could have prevented that from happening was her, perhaps, if she had been committed to doing whatever she needed to do to manage her illness.

Also, your ex was struggling with extreme insecurity and I get the impression she had difficulty loving herself. When somebody struggles to love themselves and believes that they are not attractive and worthy of love, it is almost impossible for them to believe that another person can love them. And it is very difficult for them to show that other person love in return. They can try. But eventually, in the absence of effective therapy, the self-doubt wins. All the reassurances in the world cannot change that. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is you must have done everything you could to make your side of things work. So don't beat yourself up about the outcome. The only thing you could have done differently was to opt not to date her. That would have saved you from having to endure the heartache you're going through. But it wouldn't have changed her trajectory.

Going forward, OP, you should look out for yourself and be more protective of yourself in love. When you are ready to date again, please limit yourself to dating women who are able to love you as unreservedly as you love them. Anything else will ultimately break your heart.

[Placebeyondthepines]

2 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

So sorry for what you're going through, OP. Taking the time to grieve the end of your relationship is really important. So is being kind to yourself.

As an outsider who doesn't know much about you and your ex, I get the impression that there were always clouds hanging over your relationship. From what you say, she has always had debilitating mental health struggles but has not gone through the process of being diagnosed and put on medication, and whatever therapy she undergoes has not been working. I think based on that alone, the end of your relationship was inevitable.

Imagine getting a serious leg injury but not getting it seen by a professional. You reckon it'll heal, it'll fix itself. Well, it doesn't heal. But you get used to gritting your teeth and living through the pain whenever you engage in your typical daily activities. Over time, the pain gets worse and the damage spreads because you're not doing anything to fix the problem and you're putting too much stress on your leg. And then one day you just collapse. And now you can't walk. And you can't go to work. And your only hope is to get yourself to hospital. That's an analogy for what your ex might be going through. And the thing is this: you couldn't have done anything to prevent her ultimate collapse. The only person who could have prevented that from happening was her, perhaps, if she had been committed to doing whatever she needed to do to manage her illness.

Also, your ex was struggling with extreme insecurity and I get the impression she had difficulty loving herself. When somebody struggles to love themselves and believes that they are not attractive and worthy of love, it is almost impossible for them to believe that another person can love them. And it is very difficult for them to show that other person love in return. They can try. But eventually, in the absence of effective therapy, the self-doubt wins. All the reassurances in the world cannot change that. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is you must have done everything you could to make your side of things work. So don't beat yourself up about the outcome. The only thing you could have done differently was to opt not to date her. That would have saved you from having to endure the heartache you're going through. But it wouldn't have changed her trajectory.

Going forward, OP, you should look out for yourself and be more protective of yourself in love. When you are ready to date again, please limit yourself to dating women who are able to love you as unreservedly as you love them. Anything else will ultimately break your heart.

Thank you so much for this wonderful words, its sums up perfectly.

It's been a terrible day. After all of what is happening, mum fainted today. She moved in my grandmothers place after I've lost my grandma and my dad to a flat that has at a lower level our relatives. A change of scenario would do her good after all that happenend, but yesterday she moved things around the house + drank coffee daily with them when she was not allowed to do that because an tyroid gland she had in 2004. She was fine in a minute, oxygen levels and heart rate were normal, but of course, that was the last thing I needed.

Going back to what I am feeling, I can't add anything. I am sooo furious of the silence treatment, on how all of these things came crashing down. 

Went to a stroll and finally told a friend, it helped, but just on the spot.

[Acacia98]

21 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

Thank you so much for this wonderful words, its sums up perfectly.

It's been a terrible day. After all of what is happening, mum fainted today. She moved in my grandmothers place after I've lost my grandma and my dad to a flat that has at a lower level our relatives. A change of scenario would do her good after all that happenend, but yesterday she moved things around the house + drank coffee daily with them when she was not allowed to do that because an tyroid gland she had in 2004. She was fine in a minute, oxygen levels and heart rate were normal, but of course, that was the last thing I needed.

Going back to what I am feeling, I can't add anything. I am sooo furious of the silence treatment, on how all of these things came crashing down. 

Went to a stroll and finally told a friend, it helped, but just on the spot.

You're welcome, @Placebeyondthepines.

It must be hard having to deal with your mum's health scare on top of everything else. Hope she's getting better.

Glad you told a friend. It helps to have someone to lean on. Sorry if I missed this in an earlier post: is there something you can do this evening that you enjoy and that will allow you to check out for a bit? I mean something harmless like binge-watching a favorite TV series. That could help you escape for a bit.

Edited January 22 by Acacia98

[Placebeyondthepines]

@Acacia98

Yeah, my mum never had health problems. So after all of what happened with my dad and grandma, I can't describe the feeling.

I have friends to lean on, on this I am very ok from this point of view, I was not ready to share with them yet what just happened.

Yeah, I am listening to some concerts that usually make me feel good, but also with the side eye looking at my phone hoping I see a notification poping up. I am a bit lucky because I have a personal project that started last week, plus work is hectic, so my mind will be occupied.

[Placebeyondthepines]

Just finished deleting some pictures, around 500.

Feel sick to my stomach.

[ExpatInItaly]

11 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

I am sooo furious of the silence treatment,

What silent treatment? She ended it with you. It is normal that she would not be in touch right now so I am not sure why you view this as the silent treatment. It is better that you don't hear from here for a while, even if it hurts. Her contacting you would give you false hope and keep you from processing that this is indeed a break-up. 

10 hours ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

I have friends to lean on, on this I am very ok from this point of view, I was not ready to share with them yet what just happened.

Good, it's important to have a network of support.  You will need them as you start this new chapter. 

[Placebeyondthepines]

1 hour ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What silent treatment? She ended it with you. It is normal that she would not be in touch right now so I am not sure why you view this as the silent treatment. It is better that you don't hear from here for a while, even if it hurts. Her contacting you would give you false hope and keep you from processing that this is indeed a break-up. 

Deep down I was hoping she would call me, reach out. And I still do. The false hope is still there, I cannot hide it away or throw it away. That is why I said "silent treatment". Because it still feels surreal. 

At least call me and have a proper ending talk, not just like that, not with that message. I think I deserve that.

But of course, stupid me hopes she will realize things are not great without me around and reach out and do something.

[ExpatInItaly]

I realize you want to talk to her. But a phone call isn't going to change anything, except for make you feel worse when you hang up and realize she still hasn't changed her mind. 

So, I would encourage you to put aside your fury. It is misguided, since she hasn't actually done anything wrong. It will eat you up if you hang on to the anger. She isn't giving you the silent treatment and I doubt she has any malicious intent. Try to keep that in mind when you feel yourself getting furious with her. 

[Placebeyondthepines]

That is absolutely spot on. And I agree with it.

I think the fury that is building up in me is because we ended up here, because she let it reach this level?

Does that makes any sense?

[Wiseman2]

52 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

At least call me and have a proper ending talk, not just like that, not with that message. I think I deserve that.

Please try to cope with and accept the breakup. It's interesting that the breakup itself was caused by smothering and dependency and sadly that's still there.

Please talk to trusted friends and family and please talk to your therapist about dependency. Please try to shift your focus from being angry to gaining insight into how smothering people pushes them away. 

She has asked you for space and room to breathe repeatedly throughout the relationship but you just marched on talking about your needs. 

Edited January 23 by Wiseman2

[Placebeyondthepines]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She has asked you for space and room to breathe repeatedly throughout the relationship

Where did you get this from?

[ExpatInItaly]

41 minutes ago, Placebeyondthepines said:

think the fury that is building up in me is because we ended up here, because she let it reach this level?

Does that makes any sense?

Yes and no. 

It makes sense on an emotional level, in that it hurts to feel like we've put in a lot of time and effort only for the other person to end it. On a logical level, you also had a choice not to continue when it's pretty clear you weren't that happy anymore, either.  While I understand that you wanted this to work, you ù have agency in letting yourself continue when you saw things crumbling.  

In time, this anger will fade. It's normal and part of the breaking up process.  Keep talking it out. 

 

[Placebeyondthepines]

9 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Yes and no. 

It makes sense on an emotional level, in that it hurts to feel like we've put in a lot of time and effort only for the other person to end it. On a logical level, you also had a choice not to continue when it's pretty clear you weren't that happy anymore, either.  While I understand that you wanted this to work, you ù have agency in letting yourself continue when you saw things crumbling.  

In time, this anger will fade. It's normal and part of the breaking up process.  Keep talking it out. 

 

Thank you, and I will. It helps a lot and you wonderful people are helping listening to my yada-yada.

Yeah, I've let this continue for the love reasons, because I wanted to work, to be ok. There wasn't any other reason. Because I think this is right.

This morning I was remembering something, she told she wanted some things from me that I did not comply, but she let them slide and I asked her multiple times and she told me: getting your car license, taking care of yourself.

So again I explained to her:

Getting my car license: I do not want to do that, I come from a family of bad drivers, my uncle had a car accident, my dad was a bad driver. I have zero interest in doing that because I would be a danger in traffic. (she drives and her explanation is ok but what happens if I feel sick).

The taking care part is even weirder: last year there were issues with my place where I rent because of heat and water. But the whole county had them. So I did not move because I was expecting to see if we are going to move in together. What was the point of me getting a new flat then in 2 months she wants to move in with me. I would create problems for the owner of that flat. Plus I have two flats, one is in renovation now, the other was renovated past spring & summer. 

Also she mentioned I am not taking care of myself because I am not working out anymore. I still look good, did not gain weight, I did not have the time to do that lately. 

So in my head, all of these things, if you look at the logic behind it and my arguments, they are valid. But somehow she kept on telling me that I failed to understand.