Time Frame Questions

[Napleswanderer]

11 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

It will be really hard to know for a long time. This is not a time to make any firm decisions. Your emotions will be all over the place. I truly believe with a lot of work a marriage can be saved after infidelity, but it takes a really remorseful WS and a forgiving BS to make it work, and both of those things can take many months, if not years, to get to. And some people never become truly remorseful and ready to do the work on themselves to resolve how they put themselves in this situation. Then the other side is sometimes it is impossible for the BS to become forgiving. Sometimes it is a combination of the 2 that just feed off of each other and the best thing to do is walk away. 

It's a club that no one wants to be a member of. We all have scars here, and we all have survival stories. They all look different with different outcomes. Only you can decide which path is the best way forward for you and your family- but it may take a long time before it becomes clear. So give yourself grace as you navigate these times.

So, you guys have all been through this too?  It’s not for sissies.

[Acacia98]

7 hours ago, Napleswanderer said:

I have one more question…and I don’t mean to offend or be off color…but has anybody heard of a time when in addition to hurt/betrayal/sadness, you know the feeling normally associated with being cheated on, the aggrieved spouse feels super strong sexual longings for the cheater spouse?  Like almost non-stop?

Yes. If my memory serves me right, at least one of the people who posted on this forum in the past indicated he felt that way about his cheater spouse.

[Starswillshine]

7 hours ago, Napleswanderer said:

So, you guys have all been through this too?  It’s not for sissies.

Oh yes, many of us here have been in your shoes. My ex-husband cheated. We tried to work it out; obviously, we couldn't. I'm now the happiest I have ever been in my life. Recently married to the best man. But all our stories are different so hard to compare and use experiences as a gauge, especially so early in discovery. 

[Starswillshine]

7 hours ago, Napleswanderer said:

We were able to get through it.  Made some good headway today. Going to make appointment tomorrow.

 I have one more question…and I don’t mean to offend or be off color…but has anybody heard of a time when in addition to hurt/betrayal/sadness, you know the feeling normally associated with being cheated on, the aggrieved spouse feels super strong sexual longings for the cheater spouse?  Like almost non-stop?

It is called hysterical bonding. Look it up. 

[Wiseman2]

8 hours ago, Napleswanderer said:

We were able to get through it.   the aggrieved spouse feels super strong sexual longings for the cheater spouse? 

With things getting so heated that the police were almost called, this is the least of your problems. Was wanting sex with what the blowup was about? 

[Napleswanderer]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

With things getting so heated that the police were almost called, this is the least of your problems. Was wanting sex with what the blowup was about? 

No.  It was just a side note.  I want it…and while it confuses the snot out of her why she willingly/happily accommodates.  I was hoping perhaps somebody else had experienced this…maybe say how it turned out for them.  Our sex life…with the exception of the few years I had cancer and she also had health issues…is pretty jam up.  Now granted, I’m skeptical of every word that exits her mouth…but she whole heartedly agrees.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Napleswanderer

[Napleswanderer]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

It is called hysterical bonding. Look it up. 

Appreciate the comment.  Of course I have google too, but was kinda hoping for a possibly personal experience.  

[Napleswanderer]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

Oh yes, many of us here have been in your shoes. My ex-husband cheated. We tried to work it out; obviously, we couldn't. I'm now the happiest I have ever been in my life. Recently married to the best man. But all our stories are different so hard to compare and use experiences as a gauge, especially so early in discovery. 

First off…thanks for the comment and I’m very happy for you that you’ve found your true person.  Would you possibly be willing to give a few more details about you and your ex’s split?  

Was he a willing participant in therapy?  Did y’all attend any kind of couples…or maybe both couples and individual therapy?  How long had y’all been married, can I ask yours and you ex’s age?  How long did y’all try to reconcile before deciding to split? And while I know everybody is different, how long after you found out…did the dark clouds start to part?  
 

yeah…it’s been only a few days…but seems like a few years since I found out.  Feels like bizarro world.  At 50 years old…this kind of s*** should be for kids.  We have a Friday appointment with our regular couples counselor but are hoping to line up an infidelity specialist counselor.  

[Napleswanderer]

2 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

Yes. If my memory serves me right, at least one of the people who posted on this forum in the past indicated he felt that way about his cheater spouse.

I’m not a terribly great internet guy…and I did poke around a few threads.  Guess I prolly need to spend some more time.  You guys are great by the way.

[Starswillshine]

17 minutes ago, Napleswanderer said:

Appreciate the comment.  Of course I have google too, but was kinda hoping for a possibly personal experience.  

I think many people dealt with this. It is pretty confusing to the betrayed spouse. And it makes them feel shameful. But it is a very common phenomenon. 

[Starswillshine]

10 minutes ago, Napleswanderer said:

First off…thanks for the comment and I’m very happy for you that you’ve found your true person.  Would you possibly be willing to give a few more details about you and your ex’s split?  

Was he a willing participant in therapy?  Did y’all attend any kind of couples…or maybe both couples and individual therapy?  How long had y’all been married, can I ask yours and you ex’s age?  How long did y’all try to reconcile before deciding to split? And while I know everybody is different, how long after you found out…did the dark clouds start to part?  
 

yeah…it’s been only a few days…but seems like a few years since I found out.  Feels like bizarro world.  At 50 years old…this kind of s*** should be for kids.  We have a Friday appointment with our regular couples counselor but are hoping to line up an infidelity specialist counselor.  

Be cautious using my story as anything to gage against. The real short of it is that my ex husband is just not a man who can only have one woman in his life. Even today, he lives with his girlfriend but takes trips with other women (one being his ex girlfriend who the new girlfriend doesn't know was an ex girlfriend). All his close friendships are with women. When we were married, this was not something I was ok with. So I was labeled a jealous and insecure woman to all his "friends" and to my face, he acted as he was the most faithful husband who traveled for work all the time and enjoy "guy" time on the roads. We were together for 20 years, 4 kids, white picket fence... we traveled a lot, lots of date nights, i put my marriage first before the kids, i kept myself in shape with a personal trainer, we had a very healthy sex life, et etc.... you know, that couple every one in town believes has the perfect marriage and family. I thought it too. Until I discovered the affair... which led to me discovering a decade worth of him being unfaithful with many women. 

When it was just "one affair" or so I thought, we did try to make it work. We both went to individual counselors. Got to the point where our counselors worked together to sort of do marriage counseling separate (if that makes sense... they would discuss together and then help us navigate in our individual sessions). We did go to 1 marriage counseling session (not the same therapist we used for individual, and he was rude and made fun of the lady. It was a power struggle from the moment we walked in the door. At the end of the day, I only learned that he lied and faked his way through all the therapy sessions to act as such a remorseful husband. Begging and pleading. So upset and mad at himself for hurting his wife and children. Blah blah. The whole time... he was still in touch with his mistress and mocking the whole process. 

Tables flipped when I kicked him out. When I filed for divorce. He delayed the divorce 2 years. I started dating someone... I would get the late night text messages from him crying and pouring his heart out to me. This went on for a long time. Him begging to go to marriage counseling, to give him just one more shot. But at that point, he had had enough chances and he ruined my heart and soul. I was tired and defeated. There was nothing left for that man.

So I moved on. And now I look back and realize I was never truly happy. I was constantly frustrated with him. Trying to get him to be the husband I wanted him to be and the father I wanted him to be. He played a good part when he was around which is why I stayed and tried so hard. But the problem was... he was gone 4 days out of the week. An international business traveler. So ....

[BaileyB]

On 12/16/2023 at 10:00 PM, Napleswanderer said:

I also found out my wife discussed this guy with my 21yr old daughter, not specifics…just that he is in the picture.  She also said nothing to me either…so this is to me double betrayal.

Ok, but this is not your daughters responsibility to tell you. You wife very inappropriately brought your child into her affair - she put her in the untenable position of holding this terrible secret and that was 100% wrong and very unfair of your wife to do to your daughter. 

In your position, I would be more furious with my wife about this than anything else. That is a terrible thing to do to your daughter. 

I see 32 years of build up frustration and resentment here… It’s not uncommon for marriages to end when the children leave the home and that appears to be the direction this is going…. You wife has made some very, very poor decisions and the fact that she confessed only because she was discovered, she shows no remorse, and she is not invested in marriage counselling leads me to think that you should consult a divorce attorney yourself and prepare for divorce. Under these circumstances, I would not want to stay in this marriage if I was in your position. 
 

[BaileyB]

On 12/18/2023 at 7:09 AM, Napleswanderer said:

my wife feels like a trapped animal

People tend to feel threatened when they affair is discovered and they are suddenly required to be accountable for their poor decisions. 

She’s gone to great lengths to escape and avoid dealing with her feelings and the problems in her marriage. 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Napleswanderer said:

 while it confuses the snot out of her why she willingly/happily accommodates.  .

Are you hoping revitalizing your sex life will stop her from having the affair? 

[Napleswanderer]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

Be cautious using my story as anything to gage against. The real short of it is that my ex husband is just not a man who can only have one woman in his life. Even today, he lives with his girlfriend but takes trips with other women (one being his ex girlfriend who the new girlfriend doesn't know was an ex girlfriend). All his close friendships are with women. When we were married, this was not something I was ok with. So I was labeled a jealous and insecure woman to all his "friends" and to my face, he acted as he was the most faithful husband who traveled for work all the time and enjoy "guy" time on the roads. We were together for 20 years, 4 kids, white picket fence... we traveled a lot, lots of date nights, i put my marriage first before the kids, i kept myself in shape with a personal trainer, we had a very healthy sex life, et etc.... you know, that couple every one in town believes has the perfect marriage and family. I thought it too. Until I discovered the affair... which led to me discovering a decade worth of him being unfaithful with many women. 

When it was just "one affair" or so I thought, we did try to make it work. We both went to individual counselors. Got to the point where our counselors worked together to sort of do marriage counseling separate (if that makes sense... they would discuss together and then help us navigate in our individual sessions). We did go to 1 marriage counseling session (not the same therapist we used for individual, and he was rude and made fun of the lady. It was a power struggle from the moment we walked in the door. At the end of the day, I only learned that he lied and faked his way through all the therapy sessions to act as such a remorseful husband. Begging and pleading. So upset and mad at himself for hurting his wife and children. Blah blah. The whole time... he was still in touch with his mistress and mocking the whole process. 

Tables flipped when I kicked him out. When I filed for divorce. He delayed the divorce 2 years. I started dating someone... I would get the late night text messages from him crying and pouring his heart out to me. This went on for a long time. Him begging to go to marriage counseling, to give him just one more shot. But at that point, he had had enough chances and he ruined my heart and soul. I was tired and defeated. There was nothing left for that man.

So I moved on. And now I look back and realize I was never truly happy. I was constantly frustrated with him. Trying to get him to be the husband I wanted him to be and the father I wanted him to be. He played a good part when he was around which is why I stayed and tried so hard. But the problem was... he was gone 4 days out of the week. An international business traveler. So ....

Wow…that’s a heck of a story for sure.  I’m sure glad you came out at the end better, stronger and happy!  Appreciate the comment.

[Napleswanderer]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

Ok, but this is not your daughters responsibility to tell you. You wife very inappropriately brought your child into her affair - she put her in the untenable position of holding this terrible secret and that was 100% wrong and very unfair of your wife to do to your daughter. 

In your position, I would be more furious with my wife about this than anything else. That is a terrible thing to do to your daughter. 

I see 32 years of build up frustration and resentment here… It’s not uncommon for marriages to end when the children leave the home and that appears to be the direction this is going…. You wife has made some very, very poor decisions and the fact that she confessed only because she was discovered, she shows no remorse, and she is not invested in marriage counselling leads me to think that you should consult a divorce attorney yourself and prepare for divorce. Under these circumstances, I would not want to stay in this marriage if I was in your position. 
 

Very good points…as it sits, I have all I need for divorce and I will come out on the other end financially better than her.  But, I’m absolutely adore and love her.  I’m not ready yet to blow it all up yet.  At the same time, and she knows this, my trust is gone.  Every word she says is under suspicion.  Up till now…never…I’m really happy go lucky and never suspicious of her(I never had a reason). Truth be told, she could’ve most likely never told me, and even though I had inklings, she was up to no good, I easily found reasons to discount them.   Anyway…lots of rough water’s ahead.  This group is great though 

[Napleswanderer]

11 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you hoping revitalizing your sex life will stop her from having the affair? 

I hadn’t thought of it.  Just seems like the thing to do…right or wrong.  The physical part of the affair is over.  The work release guy got in trouble and transferred(a whole different story).  

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Napleswanderer said:

.  The physical part of the affair is over.  The work release guy got in trouble and transferred(a whole different story).  

What happened with the guy? Do you feel she's only having sex with you because her lover is gone? 

[mark clemson]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:00 PM, Napleswanderer said:

She mentioned a term to me tonight called limerance.  I’d never heard the word before, but upon looking it up…I guess there’s some truth to it…although seems like a cop-out to me.

OP, for clarity limerence is NOT a made up term, it's a bona-fide altered state of consciousness with similarities to addiction and to OCD. It involves changes to brain chemistry that take a while (at least several months) to fully "set" and at least that long to recover from. It is also completely independent of cheating. I've added a link to a Wikipedia article below.

However, just because the term is NOT fake doesn't mean your wife actually has it. Limerence tends to be quite rare, perhaps occurring 5-7 times in a lifetime. (For example, I'm in my mid 50's and have had full blown limerence only 3 times in my life.) Nor does it make you completely unable to control your actions, although there may be some people for who it does.

My read on your wife's behavior is that it's more likely she in part set out to see "what was out there" and found someone. She may be doing the female equivalent of "white-knighting" with this problem man. Maybe that satisfies some psychological need she had, and perhaps it's partly a revenge affair, but none of that makes it limerence.

Reality is that "following your heart"(if that's what your wife thinks she is doing) can sometimes be a HUGE mistake that gets people into boatloads of trouble with lasting negative consequences. If he is no longer in the picture, this presumably reduces chances of a divorce, but how this plays out over coming months remains to be seen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

Edited December 20, 2023 by mark clemson

[Starswillshine]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

My read on your wife's behavior is that it's more likely she in part set out to see "what was out there" and found someone. She may be doing the female equivalent of "white-knighting" with this problem man.

Good point here. Also, OP, was your wife a very conservative woman before? (I mean in behavior not political beliefs). Could be rebelling and liking the bad boy for excitement? 

[Napleswanderer]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

Good point here. Also, OP, was your wife a very conservative woman before? (I mean in behavior not political beliefs). Could be rebelling and liking the bad boy for excitement? 

Good possibility.  I do believe though the guy was a predator type and she fell for his crap.  Complicit still…but I don’t think she went looking for it…however, didn’t not enjoy the attention either,

[mark clemson]

To follow up, if it were me, I believe I'd be looking for strong and very sincere assurances that this will not happen again. Absent that, I suspect I'd be questioning whether I could really trust her going forward.

[Napleswanderer]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:23 PM, mark clemson said:

To follow up, if it were me, I believe I'd be looking for strong and very sincere assurances that this will not happen again. Absent that, I suspect I'd be questioning whether I could really trust her going forward.

The initial trauma I think is behind us.  We’ve had our initial discussion with our normal counselor, who I think was a lil over her head.  She lost her composure at one point when I was telling the story, surprised me a bit…but I was glad to get it off my chest.  We have an appointment with a counselor who states they specialize in trauma next  week, so that’s good.  I am cautiously optimistic, and so far I’ve found no reason to not believe her sincerity.  But I never know what will trigger a bad emotion/vision.  Appreciate all the comments and insight.

[S2B]

She is still working with her affair partner?

make her pack a bag today! File for divorce - let her see what the consequences are- for her bad behavior!!!