Not invited to his family's Thanksgiving lunch

[Wiseman2]

14 hours ago, Bellabee10 said:

 my boyfriend will be with his kids and family for lunch, and they will go to their mom’s for dinner. That is when I will see my boyfriend and will be with him for the weekend.

This is fine. Let him enjoy the holiday lunch with his family and children and you can get together afterwards. It's unclear why this is upsetting you so much. It's one afternoon with his family and children. A few hours.  Then you'll get together afterwards. 

[FMW]

13 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Also, please remember you are not married or live together so while you're dating a long time and have met each other's kids and people, you're not really  part of the family, sorry to say. 

I've been with my boyfriend 4 years.  We don't live together and we're not married, we have no intention to change either.  Both of our families invite us to all family functions.  It's a recognition of the importance we hold and express for each other.  If after 5 years together your boyfriend sees you as an outsider in his life in certain circumstances then I think it's understandable you are feeling hurt.  

As others suggested, voice your feeling clearly and wait to see what he says, don't provide possible answers for him.  It's important to understand if you don't share the same view of your relationship.

[stillafool]

14 hours ago, Bellabee10 said:

Only about a week ago, or less, this is when Thanksgiving was brought up again and that’s when he mentioned that his aunt is having it at xxx and he threw it out there that “yeah, only x y and z are going”- those problem I mentioned above.

I don't understand, why didn't you say something a week ago when he brought this up to you?  Honestly you guys don't seem too close.  You seem afraid to express what you want and just go along with his plans.  You've been stewing over this a week when if you had told him how you felt when he mentioned TG this could have been settled and you wouldn't need this forum.

[d0nnivain]

14 hours ago, Bellabee10 said:

I think it’s pretty clear now the reasons why I’m not included this time so I guess there aren’t any outstanding questions. I just need to accept this is how it’s going to be and his reasoning behind it.

Nothing is clear.  You got a bunch of opinions from people on the internet who don't know you, your BF or your families.  You are guessing & projecting.  You know nothing.   You do this to yourself.   

The only thing that will get you the truth is a frank discussion with your BF.  Everything else is BS.  

11 hours ago, Bellabee10 said:

I wasn’t invited by the family. They also know how to get in touch with me so if they wanted me there they could’ve also invited me. I think it really depends on a lot of factors unknown to me but there have been plenty of times when I would be at the aunt’s house and they would openly talk about her plan to thrown a dinner for a special occasion or just a brunch, and she will discuss it with my boyfriend in front of me without an invitation. She’ll say something like, “what time are you getting the kids? Do you just want to meet us at this time?” Or “Ok brunch is set for Sunday at noon!” 

I’ll be there just hanging with the group while they discuss logistics of a special occasion or a small get together etc, so I’m sure this is one of those instances.

I think they’re all very selective depending on what’s happening and when, and decide whether or not they want to include me. So I highly doubt I was even brought up by them and my boyfriend also didn’t bring me up.

I disagree with everybody who says that dating somebody for 5 years makes you family.  It doesn't.  It makes you a long term SO.  

Whether you are married or not, invitations to family events go through the family member.  His family invited him.  By extension he is empowered to bring you.  Nobody on his side should reach out around him to you.  I'm married.  My family doesn't reach out to him to invite him directly to anything.  The invite comes to me.  Similarly his family reaches out to him.  Granted when he doesn't respond which is 90% of the time because my DH is social neanderthal, they contact me but that is only because he's too rude / clueless to respond.  

If the family is talking about events in front of you, they assume you are included. 

All of you have major communications problems.  Everybody assumes too much but nobody talks to each other or clarifies anything.  You are causing your own mess / heartbreak.  

[NuevoYorko]

This situation is not happening in a vacuum and the OP prefaced this thread with:  

Quote

Hello again, I just wanted to get some ideas from you all to see if I am at all justified in feeling left out by my boyfriend yet again.

I am not going to take a strong stand as to whether the boyfriend is justified for his decision (if it actually was his decision), or whether you, OP, are justified in your response.

My question for now is this:  Why do you need to have justifications for your feelings?

I will point out that there was a  troubling  dynamic a couple of weeks ago where you were included in a gathering of "his" people.   In the past, you were constantly going off the rails if he spent time with other people (including relatives) or did not choose to piggyback time with you onto business situations that brought him to your area.

It has been a recurring theme throughout your whole relationship.  And you are STILL having negative feelings around this dynamic.

You feel how you feel about the way things are.  Yet you have been a full participant for over five years now in building this relationship and its dynamics.

So - you are feeling a certain way that is not good.  Why don't you work this out with your boyfriend?  Or if necessary with a counselor?

It seems very obvious that you and the man have "agreed" that you are keeping very strong boundaries up in this relationship.  But, I do not think that you actually agree with it within yourself.  You may be "going along" with it because you want to hold onto him and this is what he has to offer.

You have said you're moving in together after the kids are out of school. You don't want to disrupt their lives. They are in middle school.   So there  So that will be another 5 or so years from now.  TEN YEARS of "dating."  

How are you really, honestly, handling this?

You're honestly good with this?  

[NuevoYorko]

Too late to edit but I have a bit to add.  I'm sorry if this comes off as "all about me" but I think it's pertinent:

Not to take sides, but if I"m reading this situation correctly,  I can relate to the man. 

I was divorced when our daughter was  11.   I wanted companionship but did not want to "merge lives" fully with anyone again. No more marriages.    I did everything I could to be on the up and up about this when dating.   And I really did want a deep and monogamous connection  - wanted to share adventures,  lots of holidays, kids would be together at times etc.  I also fully intended to maintain a lot of independence and to spend frequent time with friends, family and daughter without my companion.   If the other person was on board with it it could be great.  

There are quite a lot of "older" (like 40+) people who choose this type of union and I personally know of people who carried it on through aging, until one of them died.  Happily.

That's where my personal experience ends, because I changed my mind and did indeed merge lives fully again.  Not remarried, though, and though now I'm less likely to say "never," I strongly doubt that will happen since my partner is truly on the same page.

Where am I going with this relating to the OP?

I have the strong impression that OP has gone along with the kind of boundaries that the guy has been working with, but often has "breakthroughs" of insecurity.   

@Bellabee10- I hope you are really being true to YOURSELF in this relationship, and that you are capable of having very honest and mature conversations with your boyfriend about all of these things.  If the conversations tend to regularly go to an emotional place where he needs to appease you and / or perhaps you need to talk yourself into "this is not a problem for me" when it may really be a problem, you might want to get some outside counseling about it.

In 5 more years when you two *might* move in together to a city as of yet undetermined ... do you feel comfortable hanging your hat on that?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[Alpacalia]

I just get a feeling that you and your boyfriend's dynamics, maybe, aren't as established as you thought it was.

There's **usually** an end goal to being official. To meet friends, family, to be brought into each other's lives and meet the ones closest to them. That's why MOST people don't even take interest in someone unless they are going somewhere. Now I don't know exactly what may or may not be transpiring except for what I am seeing here, but it doesn't look like you're a sought after relationship. 

There is a way that most special women act that leave no doubt in the dude's mind that this is an exclusive thing. That something bigger will come out of all of this. But it looks like you you were more content for the words boyfriend and girlfriend. I'm going to say what I think you should do, without sugar coating it. Bottom line is, you need to do you, until Mr. in-between steps up. Or pursue speaking to him about what you do, or don't want from him.

What I am trying to tell you is the words girlfriend, and boyfriend are currency, actions are the negotiators and facilities the behaviors.

Either you're deeply insecure or he is clueless or both. 

There's no reason why BF needs to drag his feet though but maybe he got stung in his first marriage and doesn't want to rush into anything. To be fair to him, divorce can mess up your sense of trust and timing so he might be trying to protect himself from mistrust and has some real mixed feelings. But that doesn't mean that you put your life on hold waiting for someone to make up their mind about you. 

You have two events now that really bother you. There won't ever be a good excuse for some, especially since you're thinking about him in the long term. You have to move on and go your own way until he shows better consideration for you. 

Do I think your insecurities are playing a role in your feelings? Yes, but it's also understandable because of how he's acting.  You're an outsider while attending events and 5 years in the making, I can understand why you feel that way. 

Do I think he's acting inconsiderate? Yes, but it could be out of habit. How you got here, I can only imagine. How that started.   

Something doesn't feel right for you in either situation. You have children, who should come first.  If they are needing to see you and you want to be with them, you need to do that.  

I think things aren't going to change till he sees more structure and stability coming from you in order to see his realistic role with you. Once you gain that, things will meter out one way or the other. Sometimes, a relationship issues -especially this kind- won't come to a head until one person gets the picture (more important things to do than wait). Once you acquire that stability and force his hand, it might be the end or it might be the beginning. That's your call.

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

Whether you are married or not, invitations to family events go through the family member.  His family invited him.  By extension he is empowered to bring you.  Nobody on his side should reach out around him to you. 

That I agree at 150% except if BF kept indicating to his family that OP and him are casual. Who knows what he tells his family when OP is not arround. 

That reminds me the story that got me here in 2014. I had been dating this man for 6 months and for all I knew we were serious about each other. I had noticed though that when I was with his friends 'wives they dit not try to connect with me, They were polite and all but were definitely not interested in getting to know me. Well turns out they all knew my boyfriend was leaving the country for a sabatical year so I was the 'temporary' girlfriend. I knew nothing of this and I thought I was investing in a stable relationship. 

[NuevoYorko]

There is a vast amount of space between "casual" and "de facto married."  

There is nothing inherently wrong with a person choosing to have a longstanding, monogamous relationship that is not going anywhere much different or further than "exclusive" dating. The kind of dating where you know each others' friends and family, share some times with them, but you are not seen as a constant "unit."  The people can love each other, too. But they are not sharing like married people do.  

I don't agree with the inclination here to disparage this man.   After OP's last thread I looked at posting history and all of this angst was established early on.  It seems that if OP asks the boyfriend to make some changes, he accommodates her - for example, she was not included at all with family, she spoke up, he introduced her.  

But it's very clear that he has these boundaries, and it seems clear to me that he believes that they are both okay with it.  I get this impression from your posts, OP.  You are all riled up until you do whatever it is that results in your anxiety in that moment getting soothed, and then you settle down - until a new "situation" arises.

So, OP, are you okay with this level of separation between your life and his life, your family and his, etc.?   That is something you really need to come to grips with on your own or with help from a counselor - NOT with him.  Once you are clear with yourself about how you really feel, and how you will feel as this all continues.   Because it IS the status quo and it will continue.  

Once you are clear about how YOU feel and your willingness to remain in a relationship that is more like dating than married, or not,  that is the time to bring it to him.  You can ask for what you want and need that is different.  Or, if it is really okay with you, then YOU are accountable for that choice and you really should not be allowing yourself these anxiety spinouts.  

   

[Alpacalia]

Your boyfriend's family is obviously a different set of individuals and their group dynamics are obviously different from anyone else. Have you ever asked him if he ever spoke in depth to his family about his relationship with you and your place it in? And honestly, how does he feel about you? Is he full invested and content with you? Have you met his kids?

They've been a part of his life much longer than you have so it stands to reason, with his divorce prior, that maybe he feels they're sick of the constant turmoil of family dynamics and drama. Who knows.

I was with my ex fiance' for several years before we became engaged and each holiday we'd either spend it together, sometimes his family, sometimes mine, or we'd do both in one day. It always varied and wasn't set in stone. We didn't have a set routine for holidays or special occasions, but the implication was I was always welcome to spend it with his family and his friends as I wanted. Granted, there were no children involved so that does change things a bit yet his family (with the exception of early on in our relationship) always made a point to include me in their celebrations. Heck, if I couldn't go, they'd send me a plate.

So, given all the above (and more) your BF is right to focus on maintaining a semblance of family for his children. That's what all parents should ultimately strive for, amirite?

I do agree though you are not part of the family although I'm sure after five years you can constitute being more familiar than a girlfriend of six months. I do think it's worth contemplating if this is a price of admission you can deal with, we all have them and if he treats you great in every other respect and fulfills your standards in an otherwise fantastic manner and is worth letting go of.

[FMW]

I was married 23 years, and have been  in my current non-cohabitating, non-marital relationship for 4 years.  There are clearly a lot of different views on the subject.  But the difference that matters @Bellabee10is that you have certain expectations and views about what your relationship is, and your boyfriend apparently does not share that view.  Neither of you are necessarily right or wrong, but the problem is that you don't seem to share the same vision.

Pay attention to the things that hurt your feelings, express them clearly to him and, again, don't put words in his mouth - wait for him to respond without your providing suggested answers.  Even if you have to wait out an awkward silence.  Take responsibility for any over-sensitivity you might have (I'm not saying you have any), and then see if you can understand and accept where he's coming from when hurtful issues arise.  If similar issues continue to come up, recognize that this may not be the long-term situation you are envisioning.

My overall thought on this is if he doesn't want to include you in this event after being together for 5 years, is he ever going to have a different view? And if not, are you really willing to accept being left out sometimes?  It's not going to hurt any less as time goes on.  

[Bellabee10]

Update—

Hi everyone, happy new year! I just thought I would come back on to give a brief update and follow up with a question as well.

So since that incident, everything has been really wonderful with him. He continues to include me in a lot of family events, his family will directly reach out to me and invite me, Christmas was awesome and he and I even hosted a barbecue where we invited a lot of our friends and family.

All was good until the ex’s name resurfaces yesterday. So I am in his car waiting for him to grab something out of the garage before we leave and we both had our phones on the charging pad in his car- totally in view, screen up. And his phone lights up to show on his locked screen that there is a group message, that was sent by none other than the ex. Since it was New Year’s Day, I assumed it was just a group chat greeting each other. I have an iPhone as well but what confused me is I have never seen in the same group chat notification that one of the recipients is “personal voicemail” or “personal voice message”. I do t recall exactly what it said. But I am hoping some of you can shed light on that. 

When a group message is sent, on Lock Screen, it shows the sender’s name on top. Then underneath, it shows “To: You, xxx, yyy, +2 others” depending on how many others are in that group. Well on my boyfriend’s phone, it shows the group message is from her, but recipients are “You, personal voice message, +2 others.”

Clearly she sent that to the group, and if she wanted to send him something in private, leaving out the others, wouldn’t she send something separately to him, so he would have a separate notification not showing the group? I am so sorry but I feel like I’m fining myself spiraling as I could not find out why it would show that in a group message. I wonder if someone in the group sent a message and it was just replied to? 

He hasn’t shown any signs whatsoever of doing anything sinister behind my back and we have been doing very well. But based on previous relationships, I know that might not indicate whether or not someone will do anything inappropriate. This woman is married with two kids, so if it really is the case where she had to veer off to send something personal/private to my boyfriend, it may not be so innocent. Has anyone ever had experience with that feature?

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, Bellabee10 said:

.This woman is married with two kids, so if it really is the case where she had to veer off to send something personal/private to my boyfriend, it may not be so innocent. 

Ask your BF what it was. It's unclear why you are suspicious about it. 

[Bellabee10]

Shoot- I thought I had posted about this topic but I got this mixed up with a different forum. I will add the update to a new thread. Sorry!

[Bellabee10]

Hi all- Creating a new thread and just going to paste an update. I need to give some background info though, before I fast forward to what happened yesterday. All happened in Sept during a kid’s birthday party…

We’ve been together 5 years, both previously married with two kids each close to the same age. Boyfriend had these friends way back from high school who invited him to their kid’s 10th birthday back in Sept. He’s kept in contact with them but doesn’t really see them often so he was going to attend with his kids. He invited me and my kids as well.

Now it was a bit odd because I had never met them nor did I think they ever knew about me (unsure about that though). From what I understand, it’s a very tight knit group from their middle school days, so 25+ years of friendship. My boyfriend only saw them maybe once a year but keeps in touch with them often.

When my kids and I arrived, he introduced me to everyone as his girlfriend, introduced my kids, etc. Fast forward to close to 20 mins or so after we arrived. Mind you, my BF was standing by the counter talking to his friends and I stood there but wasn’t included in the conversation so I excused myself to sit with my kids. He called my name, I turned around and there was a girl he introduced me to and I stood up, she was very nice and gave me a hug. I remembered the name from when he mentioned one of his exes in passing. It was her. I don’t think he knew that I remembered. She was there with her husband and two kids (9 and 7 year olds).

All night she was talking to him. Apparently they all went to high school together, including her now husband. I started feeling uncomfortable because it seemed everywhere he was, she was there. There was a point before we left, that we were all on the couch- me, my BF, her and her husband. Husband at the end, then her, and my boyfriend and me at the end. They were facing each other just talking. No flirting but my insecurities were letting me feel uncomfortable. They were just talking about what was going on with his family, kids, school life, etc. All while I was sitting there for 30-45 minutes not being acknowledged because they were so busy catching up. They maybe included me in a couple of subjects but it was short lived. Even my daughter was there and brought it up to me the following that it was “rude”.

I get they were just catching up and this relationship was at least 15 years ago- I’m guessing 15years minimum because of her kids’ ages and his. BFs oldest is 14. He married the mom (his ex wife) back in 2010 so she was sometime before that. 

I just didn’t like how they seemed like they couldn’t part. The guys would stand in a group and she would be there next to my BF. We sat on the couch and she sat by my BF, between him and her husband. And they just talked. Like I said, I was right next to him and heard the full conversation and it was completely innocent. Prior to that, he did call me up to the counter a few times to have a drink with the group. I would stand there and try to converse with everyone but most of the time, the group’s conversation would steer to them talking about the past, high school, etc. something I wasn’t a part of. So he did try to get me involved a few times but I would say the majority of the time, I was left out. Understandable. They all have a history that doesn’t include me.

He showed some affection at the party, arm around my waist, held my hand a couple of times, etc. I don’t expect it thought because we were at a party. I just wanted to reiterate he wasn’t ignoring me completely. The other girl was also quite affectionate with her husband when she wasn’t talking to my boyfriend.

That was pretty much the night and was forgotten about until her name popped up in his phone yesterday. Thank you if you’ve read this much so far. 

So since that incident, everything has been really wonderful with him. He continues to include me in a lot of family events, his family will directly reach out to me and invite me, Christmas was awesome and he and I even hosted a barbecue where we invited a lot of our friends and family.

All was good until the ex’s name resurfaces yesterday. So I am in his car waiting for him to grab something out of the garage before we leave and we both had our phones on the charging pad in his car- totally in view, screen up. And his phone lights up to show on his locked screen that there is a group message, that was sent by none other than the ex. Since it was New Year’s Day, I assumed it was just a group chat greeting each other. I have an iPhone as well but what confused me is I have never seen in the same group chat notification that one of the recipients is “personal voicemail” or “personal voice message”. I don’t recall exactly what it said. But I am hoping some of you can shed light on that. 

When a group message is sent, on Lock Screen, it shows the sender’s name on top. Then underneath, it shows “To: You, xxx, yyy, +2 others” depending on how many others are in that group. Well on my boyfriend’s phone, it shows the group message is from her, but recipients are “You, personal voice message, +2 others.”

Clearly she sent that to the group, and if she wanted to send him something in private, leaving out the others, wouldn’t she send something separately to him, so he would have a separate notification not showing the group? I am so sorry but I feel like I’m fining myself spiraling as I could not find out why it would show that in a group message. I wonder if someone in the group sent a message and it was just replied to? 

He hasn’t shown any signs whatsoever of doing anything sinister behind my back and we have been doing very well. But based on previous relationships, I know that might not indicate whether or not someone will do anything inappropriate. This woman is married with two kids, so if it really is the case where she had to veer off to send something personal/private to my boyfriend, it may not be so innocent. Has anyone ever had experience with that feature? I don’t think it would be a good idea for me to question him however as it might seem a bit of a stretch and would make me look controlling. I just wanted to see if you all think I am justified in being a little suspicious and /or what that group message notification might indicate.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

Do you send friends new years greetings? 

[Bellabee10]

I do- but the group message shows all names. In his phone, from her, it showed a list of people but one “person” was labeled as “personal voicemail” or “personal voice message”.

[ShyViolet]

I don't think it sounds like he's doing anything wrong.  Your insecurity and jealousy is going to damage this relationship if you don't get a handle on it.  This is a problem with you, not a problem with him.  Stop playing detective with his phone.

[Gaeta]

Maybe she sent him a private message saying that she's happy he's met someone and you look like a great woman. 

Edited January 3, 2024 by Gaeta

[NuevoYorko]

You are going to blow up this relationship if not simply drive yourself crazy.  Probably both.  

I can't believe you recounted that whole party situation in minute detail here.  First, that was a huge nothing-burger which was mostly if not all of  your own creation.  Mainly, though, you had a mega-thread about it with masses of replies already.  

It is tremendously unhealthy for you to re-live every shred of interactions between them that evening months ago here.  It's like you are addicted to the adrenaline of your own anxiety spiral.  

This relationship is NOT WORKING FOR YOU.  You have many freakouts yet you persist in pretending that being in this relationship is toxic for you. HE is not toxic, and nothing bad has ever happened as far as we've been told here.  But you cannot handle this.

 

Edited January 3, 2024 by NuevoYorko

[smackie9]

You need to be more confident in yourself. Go seek out some self help books and start a new path in your life. 

[Alpacalia]

What's going on in your relationship that would make a group message from his ex cause you to "spiral"? I think you may not trust your boyfriend as much as you think you do.

[Bellabee10]

I do trust him, but I’m not sure if I trust her. I think what made me question it was the fact that it showed a list of people and personal message. If it was just a normal group text from her to the group, I wouldn’t be worried. That’s why I’m confused as to what it is as I’ve never seen that before. It appears she did send something to the group, it clearly shows that, but one of the recipient’s NAMES was “personal message”, so that threw me off. So if it was in fact, a message only to my boyfriend, I wonder why she had to need to make it separate and private, just to him. If that’s really the case. 

[ShyViolet]

1 minute ago, Bellabee10 said:

I do trust him, but I’m not sure if I trust her.

This is a very silly statement.  He is the one you are in a relationship with.  He is the only one who you need to trust.  If you are truly this insecure then maybe you're not ready to be in a relationship.

 

2 minutes ago, Bellabee10 said:

I think what made me question it was the fact that it showed a list of people and personal message. If it was just a normal group text from her to the group, I wouldn’t be worried. That’s why I’m confused as to what it is as I’ve never seen that before. It appears she did send something to the group, it clearly shows that, but one of the recipient’s NAMES was “personal message”, so that threw me off. So if it was in fact, a message only to my boyfriend, I wonder why she had to need to make it separate and private, just to him.

All these technicalities about the phone are not the point.  You are just repeating what you said in the initial post.  Did you read anyone's advice here?

[Alpacalia]

Well, it's quite clear that you do not trust her intentions towards your boyfriend. It's good that you trust your boyfriend, but your trust in the situation as a whole is shaky.

Let's say that she did have a thing for your boyfriend, and she wanted to send him a personal message. If you felt secure in the bond and trust in your relationship, then you might more easily overlook it as innocent. However, if your trust is not as strong, then your mind will naturally go to the worst case scenario. You may start to question your boyfriend’s loyalty and honesty, and wonder what else he may be hiding from you.

So while you may think that you trust your boyfriend, this situation has brought to light some underlying trust issues that you may need to address and work on.

People have attraction towards people all the time but it doesn't necessarily mean that they will act on it. Your boyfriend has a choice in how he handles her potential feelings for him, and it seems like he has been open and transparent about it with you.