Friend said nothing after, and used her phone during, my performance

[stillafool]

18 hours ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

She's a relatively new friend, so I am sussing out what she brings to my life; as well, I'm going through a major life reevaluation of what I let in after having had some really bad experiences that suggested my boundaries aren't where they maybe need to be.

I think now you know that she is not displaying actions of what you consider to be a good friend.  I wouldn't say anything to her, just stop seeing her and let the friendship die.  If you do feel you have to say something, do it and then leave her alone.

 

39 minutes ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

A forum is not the place to psychoanalyze someone. Just take things people say as a summary of lots of small experiences that they're sharing in order to provide context for the issue they're here to receive help with. Thanks for your perspective. 

LOL, if only this were true.  When you come to a public forum people will analyze your thread and give their opinions.  Some you will like and agree with others you won't.

[Alpacalia]

56 minutes ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

I'm not alone in thinking cell phones are extremely rude, not only during a performance, but also in general socializing. Also, since I'm a stranger to you, perhaps just take my word for it if I say that this group of ladies is somewhat superficial and very few of them are accomplished at anything. And it's perfectly fine for someone to gravitate more to people who are less superficial and who have passions and interests that inspire them to work hard to be good at them. 

I don't understand though. If you feel your friend group is superficial and lacks substance, why do you continue to spend time with them? It seems like a lot of energy to put into a group that doesn't align with your values.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Alpacalia

[NothingSurprisesMe]

43 minutes ago, Alpacalia said:

I don't understand though. If you feel your friend group is superficial and lacks substance, why do you continue to spend time with them? It seems like a lot of energy to put into a group that doesn't align with your values.

Of course you don't understand; you don't know me! Again, outside the scope of this thread, but: I moved to where I live now right before pandemic lockdowns and did not know a soul; I work a remote job; I can't afford to move; it's very hard to meet people in my age and interests demographics; I was laid up for a year recovering from an immobilizing surgery; what's rare and positive about these women is how we've all committed to building this community and it's the only one I have, and as I've said, they're good people even if we're all very different as we're not connected by common interest so much as by where we live. I value them as a community even as, in individual relationships, such as with the person about whom I've posted, I value and need different things, and it's those things I'm focused on here, in this thread. 

[NothingSurprisesMe]

1 hour ago, stillafool said:

I think now you know that she is not displaying actions of what you consider to be a good friend.  I wouldn't say anything to her, just stop seeing her and let the friendship die.  If you do feel you have to say something, do it and then leave her alone.

 

LOL, if only this were true.  When you come to a public forum people will analyze your thread and give their opinions.  Some you will like and agree with others you won't.

I will say something; I think she deserves a chance to know she hurt my feelings and to react and respond however she will. 

Re: psychoanalyzing a person based on a few paragraphs of information about a single situation in their life: no, a forum isn't a place for that, and that is true, but just because it's true doesn't mean that people won't do it, and I'll never agree with it esp as I myself am a psychotherapist and am faced daily with how complex it is to form a complete picture of what's going on with a person. But you're absolutely right: you come to a public forum and you get what you get. 

[NuevoYorko]

13 hours ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

Judging by your profile name, we were in the same city, and I received my conservatory training there, and I think one reason I'm having trouble knowing what to do with this scenario is because my artist friends and I were always very respectful and supportive of each other. When someone performed or gave a reading, we listened, clapped, congratulated. When someone had an art opening, we came, and celebrated. Of course, this was mostly before smart phones.

You took care to note that this was a social gathering and your performance was not the purpose of it.   That's different from attending an opening etc.

It's too bad that you broke focus on your 5 minute performance in order to capture the moment your friend in the audience looking at her phone.  In my experience most performing artists are quite absorbed in what they are doing and not tracking the actions of any single audience member.  What motivated you to sort of "police" her attentiveness?   Now you're questioning your entire relationship.  Seems like a shame, to me. 

I can tell you with absolute confidence that friends who are not hyper focussed on one of their compadres who is doing an art thing can still be the best of friends.   I still have all of mine 40+ years later.  

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NuevoYorko

[NothingSurprisesMe]

1 hour ago, NuevoYorko said:

You took care to note that this was a social gathering and your performance was not the purpose of it.   That's different from attending an opening etc.

It's too bad that you broke focus on your 5 minute performance in order to capture the moment your friend in the audience looking at her phone.  In my experience most performing artists are quite absorbed in what they are doing and not tracking the actions of any single audience member.  What motivated you to sort of "police" her attentiveness?   Now you're questioning your entire relationship.  Seems like a shame, to me. 

I can tell you with absolute confidence that friends who are not hyper focussed on one of their compadres who is doing an art thing can still be the best of friends.   I still have all of mine 40+ years later.  

 

Really? How is this helpful versus insulting and kind-of pathetically petty? Dude, if you're what you claim you are, maybe we know some of the same people...though maybe not as it seems ("40+ years later") you're a good bit older than I am. What I know, is that the issue with incessant cell phone use is an irritant to many performers. Where did I say I broke focus? She was three feet away from me. You can be focused and catch things in your peripheral vision that you don't fully take note of until after the performance is over. You can note a music stand falling over, a baton flying out of the conductor's hands, a string popping, a microphone failing, an actor forgetting to remove his mic during a bathroom break so that everyone in the theater hears the toilet flush mid-performance, and you can react without breaking focus. But you should know that, if you're a performer surrounded by performers, and you'd not respond in such a snotty way. Your response is the province of people who want to sound more knowledgeable than they are--again, which you'd know, were you what you claim to be, because this kind of attitude annoys the heck out of people in the arts. But here, maybe you didn't hear about this incident with the violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter, who stopped a performance to insist an audience member recording her on their phone put their phone away: [tried to add a link but seems I'm not able to--you can google her name and "cell phone" and read about it if you're interested].

You've turned this into an argument about performance rather than what this whole forum and post is about: my (a stranger to you) impressions about a friendship and my effort to suss out what I feel and what I might do about what I feel. Yes indeed one can maintain friendships despite missed performances, not liking someone's work and saying so, all kinds of things. And so...what? What's your point, that pertains specifically to my feelings about my friend, and not really so much about my performance, the nature of it, etc.? 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NothingSurprisesMe
can't seem to provide a link

[stillafool]

48 minutes ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

You can be focused and catch things in your peripheral vision that you don't fully take note of until after the performance is over. You can note a music stand falling over, a baton flying out of the conductor's hands, a string popping, a microphone failing, an actor forgetting to remove his mic during a bathroom break so that everyone in the theater hears the toilet flush mid-performance, and you can react without breaking focus.

Perhaps this also applies to your friend.  Maybe she was also focused on your performance while playing with her phone.  However, that still wouldn't explain why she had no comment about your performance.  Do you think it's possible that she didn't like your performance and felt it was best not to comment?

[NothingSurprisesMe]

46 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Perhaps this also applies to your friend.  Maybe she was also focused on your performance while playing with her phone.  However, that still wouldn't explain why she had no comment about your performance.  Do you think it's possible that she didn't like your performance and felt it was best not to comment?

It's not the same. Performance is a state of high-alert but also fierce focus. Things can hit your awareness from outside--for instance, once the spaghetti strap of my dress broke and the front started slipping down, but there was no place or way to stop and so I reacted by not moving in such a way that would cause the dress to slip even more. BUT I was entirely focused on the performance. It's like some primal subsystem takes over addressing those kinds of disruptions while your main system is very engrossed. It's not at all like fidgeting with a device or something else while listening. Imagine a therapist scrolling passively through their phone while you're talking to them in-session. You'd feel pretty irked, I'd imagine, that there you are paying for the session while they're scrolling and not giving you their undivided attention. That's why in performances the seats face the stage and the audience (I realize not in ALL kinds of performance) generally remains quiet. The nuances of performance are designed for people's full attention. 

At this gathering, once I explained to the women that once I started I couldn't stop, say, if the doorbell rang, and that the performance clocked in at less than five minutes, everyone else was completely still, even though previously people were working on crafts of various kinds. All hands were still; I felt it, and I fed off that stillness to shape my performance. Performers aren't oblivious to the energy of the hall or room. It's fodder for building the performance, and as such, excess noise or inattentiveness can negatively affect the performance and performer alike. You literally can FEEL when people are giving you full attention, attending to your every nuance. It's really exciting when that happens. 

So, no, I don't think anyone can be "focused" on a performance while playing with her phone. Also, I've mentioned that she was sitting literally three feet away from me; if everyone else knew to be still, she could have, too. 

Absolutely, she might not have liked my performance. "Thanks; that was cool!" "How fun; thank you!" "Yay you!" *Clap and or cheer.* *Squeeze my shoulder when I sit back down.* It's not an audience member's job to inform the performer of whether they like it or not. Just to acknowledge that someone performed; usually a "thank you" is just fine. She's an athlete; she runs races. I've watched people (not her, not yet) run races. As they come through the finish line, do I not cheer if their time was terrible; am I not noticing that they came through the finish line because I was busy scrolling through my phone? No! This isn't some special PhD in etiquette required to know what to do. It's to appreciate and support the efforts of another regardless of whether you like what they do. Someone nearly ran me off the road yesterday because he was diddling with his phone while walking and didn't give me room between him and the grass to pass (I was on my rollerblades). Phones disrupt attention. We ALL should keep that in mind and put them away where possible because otherwise we are missing out. Frankly I really don't think this is a topic of debate. What IS debatable, is whether I should say something to this friend about my hurt feelings, or say nothing. Maybe next time she excitedly tells me about a race she ran and how it went, if I'm not too busy sharing pictures on my phone with the person next to me to even hear what she said, I could just say nothing. Except I wouldn't do that, because I'm attentive to how people feel and what they do and I want to acknowledge them because one thing that makes us all alike as humans is that we do like to be acknowledged. It's really, really simple. 

I'm going to say something to her. Not admonish her. Just let her know my feelings were hurt, and it was okay if she didn't like it but I just had hoped that she of all people would have given my performance her full attention as it was only five minutes. And we'll take it from there. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by NothingSurprisesMe
fidgeting, not fighting

[basil67]

@NothingSurprisesMe   Given how you describe the women in this group, I honestly think you need to walk away from the whole lot of them for both your sake and theirs.  

I understand that you're keen to make connection in a new place and that you do acknowledge the positives in this group - but the sheer number of condescending things you've said about this group in general shows that you're simply not compatible with them.  And I suspect that they also feel the difference.  It could well be a lack of compatibility which may have led to you not being asked on the vacation.   Thing is, you wrote disparagingly about them doing a "touristy hike".  So if you had gone with them, you'd very likley be complaining about their shallow holiday and how they didn't make the most of their time in such a wonderful place.  

May I kindly suggest that part of learning to be a good friend also involves acceptance that we are all different.  And to be honest, I don't think I know anyone who would met your standards for others.  To paraphrase your repeated comments 'I would do it, so I would want that in return' simply doesn't work because they are not you.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by basil67

[Wiseman2]

Sometimes it depends on the venue. For example if you were at Lincoln Center as a performer there's obviously a no cell/phone off policy. However if you were at a club or casual type of place, people/performers are usually used to background distractions.

You could discuss it with her, but what is the response you're hoping for since it doesn't seem personal but just someone not paying attention? 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

. That's why in performances the seats face the stage and the audience (I realize not in ALL kinds of performance) generally remains quiet. The nuances of performance are designed for people's full attention. 

At this gathering, once I explained to the women that once I started I couldn't stop, say, if the doorbell rang, and that the performance clocked in at less than five minutes, everyone else was completely still, even though previously people were working on crafts of various kinds. All hands were still; I felt it, and I fed off that stillness to shape my performance. Performers aren't oblivious to the energy of the hall or room. It's fodder for building the performance, and as such, excess noise or inattentiveness can negatively affect the performance and performer alike. You literally can FEEL when people are giving you full attention, attending to your every nuance. It's really exciting when that happens. 

You're talking about performances (and therapy sessions) where people come specifically for that thing. They pay to attend because they really want to immerse themselves 

But this was a casual affair where probably a few drinks had been had and everyone was chill.  And in this situation, the performer should expect a less focussed audience, where people might look at their phone, or are couple are having a quiet chat in the kitchen.  It's on the performer to rise above it, just like how a performer does when they are at a pub or club. If the performer can't rise above it, then perhaps they are best to decline and keep their performances for paid venues where they can give their best.   I also think that while praise is wonderful, one should embrace what they receive rather than expect it.

I think it's a case of horses for courses.

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, NothingSurprisesMe said:

Of course you don't understand; you don't know me! Again, outside the scope of this thread, but: I moved to where I live now right before pandemic lockdowns and did not know a soul; I work a remote job; I can't afford to move; it's very hard to meet people in my age and interests demographics; I was laid up for a year recovering from an immobilizing surgery; what's rare and positive about these women is how we've all committed to building this community and it's the only one I have, and as I've said, they're good people even if we're all very different as we're not connected by common interest so much as by where we live. I value them as a community even as, in individual relationships, such as with the person about whom I've posted, I value and need different things, and it's those things I'm focused on here, in this thread. 

Well, we could argue this all day, but it's not relevant to the original question at hand.

You're upset with your friend. Her actions hurt you. So, decide how YOU want to handle it. I can't tell you which option is best for you as that's a personal decision, but either way, it's your call. All I know is, if someone gave me a speech about being on my phone for a few minutes at a venue that I CHOSE TO BE at, and then proceeded to dictate to me what they felt was good *enough* behavior at said event, we wouldn't be very close.

Maybe this has more to do with you not feeling supported by her where it really counts, even if you get doses here and there. Maybe the phone is just the symbolic last straw for a relationship that's not deeper and more reciprocal than you want. I don't have the answer, but it sounds like you have some reflecting to do.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Alpacalia]

You're not even willing to hear her out and that she may have a very good explanation for being on her phone seemingly during your performance? It's a little bit of a stretch from that to politics to what's wrong with the world that someone uses their phone when, again, you're not even sure?

[ ] 

Again, you don't know everything going on with her and you seem to not want to hear her side of the phone thing. And why does it matter what their phone etiquette is?

Really.

Is that all that is in the wide scope of life's petty concerns these days?

You say you don't want false flattery, but isn't that exactly what you're asking for? If your friend were to say "Wow, that was an amazing performance!" when she secretly thought it was just okay, that would be disingenuous and not helpful at all.

Not everyone is attuned to performances and may not know how to respond in those situations. Your friend may have also felt that it was not her place to critique your performance, especially in front of others. Or perhaps she had something else on her mind and couldn't fully give her attention during your performance.

It may have been rude of your friend, but it's also rude and presumptuous of you to immediately jump to the conclusion that she didn't care or support you. Maybe she was dealing with a personal emergency or had a work matter come up. Maybe she didn't want to interrupt your performance by talking or making noise. There could be many reasons why she didn't say anything or show more attention.

Be sure you don't have any spatial visual difficulties first, or have her explain if she could, why she was gawking at her phone during a brief 5 minute performance before making conclusions about your entire friendship.

Edited November 15, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
civility

[Lisa]

Thread closed at request of OP