I Am Perplexed. UDATE: do I walk away?

[Gaeta]

She sounds like a lot of work. Maybe she should continue working on herself with her therapist before dating. 

It is also part of her job to create romance. She puts everything on your shoulders. She talks about her love language and what she's used to, what she wants, she certainly knows how to use the word *l*.  Is she even interested in what is your love language.

After telling us the dates you set up, the way you treat & respect her, you have been a real gentleman to her.  I think she wants you to be like someone else she was with before. Not fair to you.

[BaileyB]

27 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

She sounds like a lot of work. Maybe she should continue working on herself with her therapist before dating. 

It is also part of her job to create romance. She puts everything on your shoulders. She talks about her love language and what she's used to, what she wants, she certainly knows how to use the word *l*.  Is she even interested in what is your love language.

After telling us the dates you set up, the way you treat & respect her, you have been a real gentleman to her.  I think she wants you to be like someone else she was with before. Not fair to you.

Yes!! 100% yes!!

She does sound like a lot of work! Here you are OP trying to guess what she wants - she needs to communicate that to you. Relationships are a two way street. If she is she is not trying to meet you half way the relationship is very one sided. If she doesn’t recognize you for the kind, sweet soul that you are then maybe you need to find someone else… Just keep that in mind, as you wait and see how she proceeds in this relationship. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by BaileyB

[Versacehottie]

3 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

So considering I tried to make it feel less platonic by kissing on the lips to greet, hand holding, incorporating gentle touches and even putting my arm around her lower back as we walked… should I be incorporating more verbal things rather to increase the romance and emotional connection?

To me, this feels robotic/off/trying too hard...Your game plan consists of lesser physical actions than full on intimacy and more words--assuming you mean compliments.  IMO you would just be perpetuating the problem that already exists. You are sort of treating it like some routine formula even though I think you are a good guy but perhaps not that experienced.  So essentially you are still addressing this problem the way a guy would and you need to address it -- at least to have some traction and success--the way a girl would like to....which is the emotional stuff/connection. Use your brain 😁 I mean that not as a disparaging remark,.but literally that using you mind-brain to connect with her (not in a friend way) is the way to go. 

I say this a lot. Flirty friends is a good vibe to have (especially if you are stuck, like you are). 

[WorldTraveler]

28 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

To me, this feels robotic/off/trying too hard...Your game plan consists of lesser physical actions than full on intimacy and more words--assuming you mean compliments.  IMO you would just be perpetuating the problem that already exists. You are sort of treating it like some routine formula even though I think you are a good guy but perhaps not that experienced.  So essentially you are still addressing this problem the way a guy would and you need to address it -- at least to have some traction and success--the way a girl would like to....which is the emotional stuff/connection. Use your brain 😁 I mean that not as a disparaging remark,.but literally that using you mind-brain to connect with her (not in a friend way) is the way to go. 

I say this a lot. Flirty friends is a good vibe to have (especially if you are stuck, like you are). 

Well I welcome your criticism and I'd be happy to take any pointers and tips on how to make it less robotic because yes this is my first serious relationship in two years because my career has had me moving cities frequently so I may be a little rusty. But now that I'm settled I'm really trying to find my person and get it right once and for all. 

[WorldTraveler]

43 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Yes!! 100% yes!!

She does sound like a lot of work! Here you are OP trying to guess what she wants - she needs to communicate that to you. Relationships are a two way street. If she is she is not trying to meet you half way the relationship is very one sided. If she doesn’t recognize you for the kind, sweet soul that you are then maybe you need to find someone else… Just keep that in mind, as you wait and see how she proceeds in this relationship. 

Well after our first few dates she said that she was in a place where she was finally ready to find her person and didn't doubt her own personal emotional availability for a second. I acknowledge that its possible that working through therapy could have brought some other things to light and maybe she may not be as ready as she once was. For which I'm willing to part ways if whatever she is working on becomes too much. I told her I'm a pretty understanding guy who see's the potential of our connection and told her I don't mind working on things and exuding a little patience, but also made sure she knows that the patience isn't going to last forever either. And how I know my worth, I know what I want and I know how to get there and would be willing to walk away if need be. 

[JTSW]

16 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

She told me that she loves our connection and feels like the chemistry is there but then says how she just feels like I’m not into her romantically. As if my actions or inactions were making her feel this way.

Yeah she is projecting it onto you so she doesn't have to outright tell you the truth.

Your actions couldn't be more obvious about how much you want her.

What more does she want?

Honestly, can't see this ever changing.

Edited August 17, 2023 by JTSW

[WorldTraveler]

So I've been dating this woman for the past three months and to be quite honest it's been up and down from the start which should have been a warning sign, but I chose to keep pursuing while giving her the benefit of the doubt. For some context she's the same woman from my previous posts however since my last post I was given some insight as to why I have been met with so much resistance. I've been exuding an ungodly amount patience because I truly felt like this woman was worth it, someone I could definitely see myself settling down with for a long future based on the chemistry and similarities we share.

However here we are at three months and STILL no sex. After talking with her and expressing my concerns of lack of intimacy, she essentially gave me the reason behind it and why it's been such a challenging thing for her. Her last relationship ended in January, and from what she told me, her ex was extremely toxic and emotionally abusive. To give a brief example, apparently he would tell her what she could and couldn't wear and who she could and couldn't hang out with based on his own insecurities - In other words a real POS. She's been going to therapy for quite sometime working on whatever awful things that her ex put her through. But in regards to sex, she values sex as something that's extremely important to her and something she doesn't like to rush into before establishing a deep emotional connection with the person she's dating. She also told me that after her breakup in January, she dated a few guys and after a few dates would have them over to stay the night and have sex only for it to make things worse and she would be left crying. By rushing into sex, it would ultimately cause her to self sabotage and push the guy away, only for things to fall apart. So this time around, because she sees potential with me, she wanted to try a different approach and not rush into things, i.e. "take things slow". I was agreeable to this and it sounded well and good however, when I asked her 1.5 months in "what does slow look like for you?" she was unable to answer that. I responded by saying how I didn't mean to put her on the spot, but that "taking it slow" looks like different things to different people and I just wanted to be sure that we were on the same page. However, to this day I still haven't gotten an answer to my original question. 

So a month ago after she told me that she feels like we're just friends, I made sure to go out of my way to show her that I want more than just that. I told her that I'm not willing to accept a friendship and that I either want to ultimately evolve into romantic partners in a relationship or go our separate ways. So I made sure to do all the things to show her through words and actions that I want her and that I want to deepen out connection together. I got her some really nice flowers and took her out to a romantic dinner, we had deep conversations and really opened up and became vulnerable with each other. The dates continued to improve and we had a ton of fun no matter the activity. The physical touch on dates became more frequent too and after one of the dates I was finally given the green light to stay the night. I made sure to not force the issue of sex and we just ended up cuddling for the night because I know how just getting to stay the night was something that she had to work up to. After that night she made comments about how she was really glad that I stayed the night and loved cuddling with me. The following week was the closest I'd ever felt with her. She would call me out of the blue to just talk on the phone, I'd wake up to cute good morning texts daily, and she was constantly curious about my life and I felt like her level of interest was through the roof. I got a chance to meet her best friends and felt like I made a great impression. I was truly happy, thinking that something special was about to take off. 

Unfortunately now I feel like the dynamic has shifted and things feel like they continue to move in the opposite direction. Our last date was two weeks ago since we've both been traveling and haven't been in the same city. After a few weeks of me going all out with cute words and actions and really trying to show her how serious I am about this, I figured I'd try once again for sex. On our date we chose to go bowling. We made a bet that the loser of the game would owe the winner a massage. I ended up winning and thought that a massage would be a segway into sex. So we get back to her place and our cuddling on the couch watching tv and I begin to initiate things by starting to talk about what she likes in the bedroom. I thought this conversation plus the massage would lead to sex, but after inquiring about my owed massage she gives me the BS excuse of "I'm a little too tired right now". She sensed my frustration and it then turned into yet another conversation of how she still feels like we are more friends than anything else. I was pretty dumbfounded at this point because I truly feel like I have done all the right things and at times am left feeling like something is wrong with me even though I know that isn't the truth considering I know my worth (thank you therapy). 

So since that conversation I told her that this feeling of being friends is quite possible due to a mixture of things: 

1. Her walls that she has up from the past relationship that I have tirelessly tried to chip away at with little success. 

2. We never defined what "slow" looks like. Because of this I've held back from doing/saying certain things because I didn't want to overwhelm her and scare her off.

3. Lack of intimacy. Even non-sexual things like the massage for example get shut down, and not once has she ever initiated touch, or things like kissing, making out, etc. It's always been me. 

 

So after this most recent talk, she told me that she still wants to see if we can get over this hurdle and wants us to be more than friends. She told me how she just wants me to be myself and not hold back. I halfheartedly agreed with her because I'm feeling emotionally exhausted and feel like I've done all the things that usually work in past relationships and don't know what else I could be doing. Regardless I told her that moving forward I'm not going to hold back from doing or saying things and that I was just going to give it 100% and treat it as if we were dating considering how she told me she wants more cute gestures like cheek kisses or holding her in public as examples (both of which I have done btw). So I turned it up and would send her cute, romantic texts to make sure she knew I was thinking of her, did cute gestures to show her how much I care, etc. So at this point, I'm pretty burnt out and feeling lost. Our texting now is nowhere what it was a couple of weeks ago. Having conversations is like pulling teeth, she just replies with very low effort texts and doesn't seem interested in keeping the conversation going. A month ago I told myself that after 3 months I'd re-evaluate and consider walking away if necessary. And even though I feel like recently that we were heading in a really great direction,  it now feels like we've taken two steps backwards so now I'm at the point where I think walking away is the best choice. I really don't know what the root cause of all this is. She told me from the first date how in the past she has unintentionally lead guys on because she wasn't ready for a relationship but now she's in a much better place and ready to find her person. Well if I'm being honest I truly don't feel like she's ready. It's almost as if she thought she was but then dating me has unearthed some old wounds that now leave her surrounded by this fortress of walls. And I've been told that a friend of mine who dated her in the past, dealt with the same exact things I'm currently going through with her. He'd get mixed signals so he'd back off. But then when he'd back off she ask for more. So he'd give more but then it became too much for her and she'd push him away only to come back a few months later with a desire to try things out again. So while I'm not trying to get too down it's a little hard at times but I'm wondering the best method for walking away and how to approach what seems like a very much needed conversation at this point. Thank you all! 

Edited September 18, 2023 by WorldTraveler

[Lubecke]

She definitely sounds way too wishy-washy. She doesn’t know what she wants or what she’s looking for. Even if she needs patience, it still feels there’s more to it. 
 

a huge red flag here for you is her saying she feels you feel more like friends more than anything. Like she’s gradually friend zoning you but also likes the attention you give her and doesn’t want to entirely lose it. 
 

I say be cautious and give her a lot of space. Don’t look desperate and continue knocking on doors she clearly has no intention of opening. It may be best to move on at this point tbh. I know it’s not what you want to hear but she seems like she’s not invested in you as much as you are in her. You deserve more and to be with someone who is completely ready. Hope this helps! 

[Wiseman2]

24 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

 a month ago after she told me that she feels like we're just friends.

Definitely step back. Maybe she's damaged or whatever but she's definitely not on the same page as far as intimacy.

It seems you've been patient and tried some romance etc and still her response and behavior is more friendzone like.

Perhaps let her know that you'll give her space to "heal" (or whatever her issue is) and to contact you when she's ready, willing and able to have a romantic relationship.

[d0nnivain]

It sounds like she is still a bit too broken to be a good partner in a healthy relationship.  The timing is wrong for you too.  Staying in a fledgling sexless relationship where you are emotionally exhausted is no way to live.  

[WorldTraveler]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Definitely step back. Maybe she's damaged or whatever but she's definitely not on the same page as far as intimacy.

It seems you've been patient and tried some romance etc and still her response and behavior is more friendzone like.

Perhaps let her know that you'll give her space to "heal" (or whatever her issue is) and to contact you when she's ready, willing and able to have a romantic relationship.

Totally open to dropping something like "if you feel like you're in a better place in the future and want to pick this back up, depending on where we are I'd possibly be open to it, but for now I can't keep this up with things going at the current pace". Not planning on saying it and then waiting around or holding onto hope afterwards however. I've just done a lot of work on myself since my past relationship and am finally ready to give 110% of myself to someone and just want to be with someone who is able to offer up the same. 

[WorldTraveler]

1 hour ago, Lubecke said:

She definitely sounds way too wishy-washy. She doesn’t know what she wants or what she’s looking for. Even if she needs patience, it still feels there’s more to it. 
 

a huge red flag here for you is her saying she feels you feel more like friends more than anything. Like she’s gradually friend zoning you but also likes the attention you give her and doesn’t want to entirely lose it. 
 

I say be cautious and give her a lot of space. Don’t look desperate and continue knocking on doors she clearly has no intention of opening. It may be best to move on at this point tbh. I know it’s not what you want to hear but she seems like she’s not invested in you as much as you are in her. You deserve more and to be with someone who is completely ready. Hope this helps! 

Yeah I definitely agree. I just feel like a good chunk of this could have been avoiding if she was able to simply define what taking it slow looks like. More efficient communication in that realm would have prevented me from holding back and having to guess how to act around her and potentially creating a more platonic vibe. 

[Gaeta]

That was painfull to read. I have to tell you, grab that self-worth of yours and please move on!!! 

You even have proof from a previous man that she's a time waster.

There is no magical trick here, she enjoys the attention, nothing more.

By the way, asking a woman, you never had sex with, what she likes in the bedroom is NOT something to put a woman in the mood . That's the type of things men like. Women want to be held & kissed pasionnately!! And we want to be told how desired we are. We want romance. You dim the light, put some music on and slow danse with her. Teherher how special she is! forget the sex talk!

[WorldTraveler]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

That was painfull to read. I have to tell you, grab that self-worth of yours and please move on!!! 

You even have proof from a previous man that she's a time waster.

There is no magical trick here, she enjoys the attention, nothing more.

By the way, asking a woman, you never had sex with, what she likes in the bedroom is NOT something to put a woman in the mood . That's the type of things men like. Women want to be held & kissed pasionnately!! And we want to be told how desired we are. We want romance. You dim the light, put some music on and slow danse with her. Teherher how special she is! forget the sex talk!

It was painful to type! 

Just can't wrap my head around why initially every interaction and word that came out of her mouth felt genuine and sincere only for things to end up like this. She even told me on the first couple of dates how she isn't interested in wasting time or playing pointless mind games which is why things initially felt so promising. 

In regards to the sex talk, sure I can agree with that. But after exercising what felt like all other options only to keep getting denied I guess I was grasping for strings. I've initiated plenty of passionate making out and physical touch by grabbing her with dominance yet still remaining playful. Playfully grabbed her by the waist as we slowly made out down the hallway and then playfully made our way to the bed. She was receptive to it and laughed the entire time and was playful back but ultimately resulted in me only getting denied. I've planned plenty of romantic dates like cooking dinner together while sharing a bottle of wine as we had deep conversations, intimate picnics in the park, going out to a romantic dinner spot followed by an intimate romantic show together. All to try and set the mood only for nothing sexual to transpire.

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, WorldTraveler said:

She even told me on the first couple of dates how she isn't interested in wasting time or playing pointless mind games

You will notice that when people try to convince you of something with words instead of actions they are throwing sands in yours eyes. When l was dating l would hear from the cheaters * l'm not a cheater l would never do that, you have nothing to worry* l would hear from men financially broken *i'm generous & l will spoil you, and treat you* it's like these people are trying to convince themselves.

But...learn to move on without having answers to your *why*. We rarely have answers to those in life. The situation is you are 3 months in, she is hot & cold, full of excuses, giving you the go around. Time to move on. Let her figure herself out. Don't be the  guinea pig in her wheele.

[ExpatInItaly]

My guy, you shouldn't be exhausted and exuding "ungodly" patience so early into a fledgling relationship. 

It's the sign that you and she are trying to force something that just isn't there. It's time to let go, and move on to a woman who is not this draining to try to date. She isn't as into you as you arei nto her, and she's nowhere near ready to date. She likes your attention but that's where it stops, 

Put this behind you. 

[MsJayne]

She's waiting for full emotional involvement. Unfortunately she's so busy thinking about her own emotional needs that she's failing to give a hoot about yours. This endless rejection must be smashing your self esteem. I think you're right to just tell her you can't just keep going, and it's not even the waiting for intimacy, just waiting for her to make up her mind would send me on my way. Let her make it up on her own time, not yours. You've done enough. 

[basil67]

12 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

So a month ago after she told me that she feels like we're just friends, I made sure to go out of my way to show her that I want more than just that. I told her that I'm not willing to accept a friendship and that I either want to ultimately evolve into romantic partners in a relationship or go our separate ways. So I made sure to do all the things to show her through words and actions that I want her and that I want to deepen out connection together. I got her some really nice flowers and took her out to a romantic dinner, we had deep conversations and really opened up and became vulnerable with each other.

Given that you are still in the early stages of dating her, I would have thought you were already doing all the nice things and connecting with each other.  Or were you being half arsed about it all?  

If you were already being the best kind of boyfriend, then you should have told her "If that's the way it is, then I'll be on my way".   Thing is, it's just nuts to continue with someone who can't make up their mind about you.  However, if you weren't being the best kind of boyfriend, then how will you sustain all the nice things you've started doing?   And to paraphrase something I read online "you can't just do all the nice things and expect sex coins to come out".   

All in all though, I think you're wasting your time.

[WorldTraveler]

20 minutes ago, MsJayne said:

She's waiting for full emotional involvement. Unfortunately she's so busy thinking about her own emotional needs that she's failing to give a hoot about yours. This endless rejection must be smashing your self esteem. I think you're right to just tell her you can't just keep going, and it's not even the waiting for intimacy, just waiting for her to make up her mind would send me on my way. Let her make it up on her own time, not yours. You've done enough. 

I've definitely gone overboard with showing emotional involvement and now it doesn't seem to be entirely receptive unfortunately as it was a couple of weeks ago....so it makes it hard to keep trying. I agree doesn't seem like a hoot was given. Reflecting back I realized how she rarely, if ever initiated any kind of physical contact whether it was making out, holding me, implementing touch, etc. It was always me, and sometimes when I'd do so she would shut it down with some lame excuse. So when you combine that with her "taking it slow" confusion, it definitely left me feeling like she wanted to move at a snails pace and like I had to walk on eggshells. This led me to overanalyze my actions and words which I think ultimately created this platonic feeling. Either that, or the whole friends feeling is just one big excuse for some greater underlying issue. What do I know?

Edited September 19, 2023 by WorldTraveler

[basil67]

I want to go back and echo a bit of what has been said in your last thread.  You've been jumping through all these hoops, but nobody can create sexual attraction on their own.  It doesn't matter how careful or slow or how well planned you are....you can't create something if she's not putting in effort on her own end.

It's way past time to walk away.   And next time, don't bother with someone who's actions have you walking on eggshells.  Dating is supposed to be fun!

 

[princessaurora]

When I met my now husband, I was emotionally broken and still healing from a bad relationship. I let him know right away even though I was crazy attracted to him, we wouldn't be having sex for awhile. But we still were very physical early on. We were constantly making out and doing everything but piv. I never once felt like we were just friends and I constantly did things to assure him I was very hot for him. This went on the whole four months leading up to us having sex. 

This girl sounds like she is just going through the motions and hoping her feelings will change. Maybe she's not ready for a relationship or maybe she doesn't have those feelings for you. Regardless, this is not a healthy relationship and it's time to move on. 

 

 

 

[Alvi]

You cam stay a while longer if you see that there is a potential. Not many would but what is the rush to have sex? It is totally up to you.

[Alpacalia]

Ugh. This relationship sounds like a headache. Free yourself and move on.

[EmergencySandwich]

I’m not sure why this is now hitting so hard, but a week ago I left an emotionally unavailable woman after not getting what I needed or deserved for months. I know it was the right move and when I first ended it and walked I was feeling great. Full of confidence and felt like I left the situation with my self respect and some control over the situation. But now I’m left sad and lonely feeling like she was the one who broke up with me. I’ve started going on dates but part of me feels like I’m not entirely into it yet because this past woman has left me emotionally drained after I was the one putting in all the effort and constantly left questioning her attraction towards me. I wanted the relationship to work with her so bad and put everything into it only to get back the bare minimum and listen to her tell me multiple times that she feels more like friends even after I did all the things to try to make things feel more than “just friends”. This woman has come from nothing but failed relationships and then unfortunately was put through the ringer by a toxic ex before me that left her emotionally traumatized. I really think that her emotional unavailability prevented her from engaging in any emotional intimacy consistently. And without emotional intimacy there’s no way for romantic intimacy to develop hence why she was left feeling like just friends despite my best efforts. On top of that any kind of physical intimacy would cause her anxiety and added to the feelings of platonic friendship. Worst part is when her walls would come down things between us were great and we started feeling more like romantic partners but then shortly after when the walls came back up, it was back to those platonic vibes preventing us from getting anywhere. Long story short, I’m trying to forget her and move on knowing it was for the best but I keep getting hung up on her and don’t know how to move past this considering I feel like it’s taking away from new experiences with other women😔

[stillafool]

She was emotionally unavailable to you because all of her emotions were still with the guy who was emotionally unavailable to her.  She was treating him the way you treat her.  What was so great about his woman?