I Am Perplexed. UDATE: do I walk away?

[WorldTraveler]

So I've been dating this woman for 2 months now and we have gone on a total of 7 dates together. The connection we have while in person is incredible and we always have a great time no matter what we're doing. We're able to communicate incredibly well and are always upfront and honest about things that occur throughout our time together - both good and bad. After our last date the other night however, we had a pretty open and honest conversation. We just had got back from a great date and got back to my house where I tried to spice things up since we still haven't had sex at this point. I have tried now three times and either I'm doing something wrong or it's not in a way that she likes because she told me how she feels like I don't try to initiate romantic, sexual tension until the end of the night, which has left her questioning herself as to whether I'm attracted to her or not. She followed it up by saying how lately she feels like we are more than friends rather than romantic partners. Considering how we haven't had sex yet, I'm starting to feel the exact same.

Her love language is words of affirmation and she told me how guys she's dated in the past are generally more upfront when expressing their interest and act in more sexual romantic ways than I have which is why she has been feeling the way she is. I told her how I've been wanting to have sex for the past month and to not doubt my level of interest or attraction for a second because I find her incredibly sexy and attractive in ways other than just her looks. In regards to sex, I made an attempt after our third date to which she stopped me and told me how she was on her period. I tried again after we shared a romantic evening at my house on our 5th date where I cooked her dinner and we shared some wine together. I made an attempt as we were watching a movie on the couch. I started making out with her and getting handsy and playful and encouraged us to move it to the bedroom. We got to my bed and I made some further attempts only for her to stop me again after telling me how she had a UTI and wasn't feeling all that good "down there". On our most recent date I kissed her on the lips when I greeted her and made it a point to hold her hand and put my arm around her while we were out in public on our date. So I'm truly confused how this kind of behavior leaves her feeling like just friends? What kind of friends engage in this way? 

She told me how she views sex as a very special thing. To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way rather than having sex with someone and then thing's falling apart only for the guy to leave. I reassured her that I'm not in it for just the sex and I truly want to see where things go and how they progress. I told her that I view sex as a way to deepen our connection and it's one of the ways to prevent us from feeling like just friends. But's it's almost like she wants me to be more romantic and sexual before actually becoming intimate and I'm left really confused on how to do that. I feel like I have done all the right things and made all the right physical moves while also respecting her boundaries so is there something I'm missing? For someone who loves via Words of Affirmation, is there something that I could be doing more of to ensure we continue to progress and I don't become lost in the friend zone?

Edited September 19, 2023 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[JTSW]

She's just not feeling the connection with you.

You are doing everything right OP and doing the best you can but you continues to mess you around and turn you down.

Her period and UTI excuses were bs. That was just an excuse because she decided she didn't want to sleep with you.

You are right in that her behaviour is confusing.

She lets you get her into the bedroom all hot and heavy only to shoot you down.

She's sending you so many weird signals it's no wonder you are confused.

Please don't let her make you think you aren't doing enough because you are.

Maybe you should suggest getting some space from each other because even though you are doing everything she has asked for, it's not enough for her.

It's never going to be enough for her.

I don't think you are compatible.

[ExpatInItaly]

53 minutes ago, JTSW said:

She's just not feeling the connection with you.

That's what I was coming to say also. 

3 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

For someone who loves via Words of Affirmation, is there something that I could be doing more of to ensure we continue to progress

Nah, it's not this complicated. I think she enjoys your company but just doesn't feel the sexual attraction on her end, and doesn't know how to be upfront about it. If I had to guess, she will soon tell you that you two should just be friends. 

Sometimes the chemistry just isn't there, which seems to the case for her. You aren't doing anything wrong. I just don't think this is a romantic match. 

[Gaeta]

7 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

she told me how she feels like I don't try to initiate romantic, sexual tension until the end of the night

Both times she declines, and I am sure even if the initiation had been earlier in the night she would still be on her period, right. So I am not sure where she was heading with that. 

7 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way

Did you ask her if she is feeling that connection with you by now? 

[Ageless Wisdom23]

It appears she is more into having you as some sort of Companion than anything more.  If she really felt Romantic, No excuses would be needed and you would already be having sex with her.  She could be Asexual, Anything at this point.  Or just finds you a great "Mate" as far as dinner and dancing goes.  I would not push the envelope  on trying to have sex.  I don't think anything you try will make much difference.  You decide from here where to go.....😐

[BaileyB]

7 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

I feel like I have done all the right things and made all the right physical moves while also respecting her boundaries so is there something I'm missing?

I don’t blame you for being confused - twice you ended the night on your bed and/or making out and she stopped it. And then, she tells you that you don’t initiate? That would confuse me too.

I’m going to say, as a woman, one of the things I enjoy most is the sexual tension/banter that happens with my partner. Foreplay starts when you say hello - give her a kiss and tell her that she looks hot! Throughout the evening, give her a few long looks, offer a few compliments, tease a little with some sexual innuendo… it’s not easy to do, but if she is comfortable with you and she is interested, she will love it. I feel like too many men wait to offer the complainants and get affectionate right before/during sex and what she is saying is - the foreplay starts when she first see you… Let her enjoy it, and you, all night long…

[Alpacalia]

7 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

she told me how she feels like I don't try to initiate romantic, sexual tension until the end of the night, which has left her questioning herself as to whether I'm attracted to her or not. She followed it up by saying how lately she feels like we are more than friends rather than romantic partners.

She told me how she views sex as a very special thing. To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way rather than having sex with someone and then thing's falling apart only for the guy to leave.

I can see why that is confusing for you.

She is looking to be reassured verbally that you're interested in her romantically but then declines any initiation of physical intimacy on your part. The end of the night comment is interesting. Are you physically affectionate with her during your dates otherwise without the expectation that sex will follow?

She seems to have it stuck in her mind that you're only interested in her for sex when she may not be ready for it yet. Sounds like her past experiences are colouring the expectations she has for you. This is her hang-up, not yours.

Sorry, but she comes across as expecting you to shower her with all this physical and verbal attention on how much you want her but then refuses to engage in any romantic contact when you attempt it. Unless you want to resign yourself to confusion and frustration, I think the best thing to do is to explain to her that you understand that she wants to take things slow but that she is confusing you with the mixed messages she is giving you.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Alpacalia

[glows]

OP, I think you hit the nail on the head when addressing words of affirmation and flirting minus sex too early. She is clearly not interested in having sex right now but she is attracted to you if she’s making out with you.

I do find her comment about other men very immature as it’s comparing you to others she’s dated in a nitpicky and disheartening way.

My advice - stop tying affection and intimacy with sex so early on and tell her you admire and appreciate her since she likes verbal affirmation. I don’t know what culture or background you’re both from - some people are uncomfortable being so easy or being misconstrued as a easy lay. If you feel she’s playing games then stop seeing her. I would not put up with comments about “other guys”.

[BaileyB]

I agree, she is not communicating well and she is sending very mixed messages.

Edited August 16, 2023 by BaileyB

[justwhoiam]

Everything that was written so far sounds possible and makes sense. But there's a tiny chance she just wants to wait. Maybe she needs some more time, or she has some rule according to which she won't have sex before a certain number of dates, whatever the reason. Disclosing that would sound stupid, or she'd have to explain the reason why. Tiny chance, but also possible. Because she said: "she views sex as a very special thing. To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way rather than having sex with someone and then thing's falling apart only for the guy to leave."

Your best chance would be asking her if she doesn't feel any chemistry with you , while holding her hand and looking into her eyes, even better if during a candlelight romantic dinner. Hold your gaze and don't be cold. I know men seem to have no idea when they come off as cold. I think you'll have a honest answer. We could think about the perfect wording for the question.

[smackie9]

2 months and still not getting anywhere? lost cause bro. Time to cut the cord and jump ship on this one. 

[WorldTraveler]

2 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Both times she declines, and I am sure even if the initiation had been earlier in the night she would still be on her period, right. So I am not sure where she was heading with that. 

Did you ask her if she is feeling that connection with you by now? 

She told me that she loves our connection and feels like the chemistry is there but then says how she just feels like I’m not into her romantically. As if my actions or inactions were making her feel this way.

[WorldTraveler]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t blame you for being confused - twice you ended the night on your bed and/or making out and she stopped it. And then, she tells you that you don’t initiate? That would confuse me too.

I’m going to say, as a woman, one of the things I enjoy most is the sexual tension/banter that happens with my partner. Foreplay starts when you say hello - give her a kiss and tell her that she looks hot! Throughout the evening, give her a few long looks, offer a few compliments, tease a little with some sexual innuendo… it’s not easy to do, but if she is comfortable with you and she is interested, she will love it. I feel like too many men wait to offer the complainants and get affectionate right before/during sex and what she is saying is - the foreplay starts when she first see you… Let her enjoy it, and you, all night long…

So on the day of the next date sprinkle in some cute, yet sexual comments throughout the day to build up tension leading up to our date? 

[WorldTraveler]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

I can see why that is confusing for you.

She is looking to be reassured verbally that you're interested in her romantically but then declines any initiation of physical intimacy on your part. The end of the night comment is interesting. Are you physically affectionate with her during your dates otherwise without the expectation that sex will follow?

 

How do you offer that verbal reassurance? And yes I’ve held her hand and engaged in fleeting physical touch with her on dates as well as kissed her in public in front of others. So I’m not sure how she’s left feeling like friends after this kind of behavior.

[BaileyB]

4 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

She told me that she loves our connection and feels like the chemistry is there but then says how she just feels like I’m not into her romantically.

I would ask her directly - what is it that she wants from a romantic partner. She is not communicating clearly. You obviously can’t read her mind. If she wants something more/different than what you are doing - it is her responsibility to communicate that clearly and in such a way that you know what she expects you to do. You then decide if this is something you want to continue to pursue, or not. 

[BaileyB]

5 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

So on the day of the next date sprinkle in some cute, yet sexual comments throughout the day to build up tension leading up to our date? 

Possibly, if she is responsive. 

You need to know - does she want words of affirmation in the way of - “you are so beautiful, you are an excellent cook, I appreciate the way you…” or does she want you to flirt more, or does she want you to be more assertive? You are not a mind reader - I would tell her that you are unclear about her expectations and ask her to clarify. 

[Alpacalia]

16 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

How do you offer that verbal reassurance? And yes I’ve held her hand and engaged in fleeting physical touch with her on dates as well as kissed her in public in front of others. So I’m not sure how she’s left feeling like friends after this kind of behavior.

Verbal reassurance can be as simple as telling her that you appreciate her, that she's important to you, and that you are committed to building a relationship with her. You can also share your thoughts and feelings about her openly and honestly. Additionally, you can give her compliments and frequently remind her of why you value her.

Honestly, I just think she is confused.

She is most likely not used to having a partner act so cautiously and treat sex as something special and private the way you are. Many of her past relationships may have taken that physical aspect for granted or she is used to being the one initiating and then the man losing interest after sleeping with her.

But this is being counteracted by everything else you've done. You’ve been very respectful and genuine in showing her how you feel, and your behavior and physical contact has all been appropriate for a couple just starting to explore their connection.

Like I said, she has a few issues from past relationships which she has transferred onto you:

10 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

She told me how she views sex as a very special thing. To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way rather than having sex with someone and then thing's falling apart only for the guy to leave.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Versacehottie]

2 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t blame you for being confused - twice you ended the night on your bed and/or making out and she stopped it. And then, she tells you that you don’t initiate? That would confuse me too.

I’m going to say, as a woman, one of the things I enjoy most is the sexual tension/banter that happens with my partner. Foreplay starts when you say hello - give her a kiss and tell her that she looks hot! Throughout the evening, give her a few long looks, offer a few compliments, tease a little with some sexual innuendo… it’s not easy to do, but if she is comfortable with you and she is interested, she will love it. I feel like too many men wait to offer the complainants and get affectionate right before/during sex and what she is saying is - the foreplay starts when she first see you… Let her enjoy it, and you, all night long…

Yeah I agree with Bailey. I was coming on here to say, to me, it sounds like the portion you can do better on, OP is that you compartmentalize the physical part. If you just treat the prior part of the evening in more of a friendly connection, focused on the activity rather than interweaving ALL the parts together, then that's a problem. Sure, she may be more reluctant than average but maybe she is also just resistant to something that feels forced and not like a "natural progression" of the evening. 

I think guys that are most adept at this are planting seeds all along...in text exchange, phone exchange, even doing what seems like something mundane. It's playfulness and banter and humor..For women, IMO, it doesn't all have to relate back to sexual innuendos or things like that (in fact, for this girl, i have a feeling that won't work--whereas with guys they'd generally like that)...But I think for women, i think feelings of progression, selling them on the future, teasing/bonding in general, humor, your confidence, noticing unique things about her (not necessarily related to looks), having inside jokes, having a deep discussion (about your dreams, her dreams, future plans individually/together)...all of that sells her on the dream. Hard to tell at this point if she just isn't into you. Unfortunately sometimes you are past the point of no return where her impression of you already exists, ie not sexy/not attracted to him in that way (which isn't just looks related or what you've done sexually) and then she can't get past it. I think (and pretty sure there is research to back this up) that how a guy processes wanting to get physical is very different to how a woman does and you should try to be open to using a different filter besides you own to how she will get from A to Z. It might be too late for this one, who knows. 

Sometimes if a guy hasn't done all that pre-work (no matter what he intends), it feels sort of like they are pouncing on you and that idk that they are very dull or presumptuous --merely because they didn't truly nurture the emotional connection part. My guess is that during all the pre-physical stuff you are behaving like friends or playing it too safe in various ways. Which it's hard to explain but behaving like FRIENDS isn't always a bad thing but I mean you are probably being too surface, safe, routine (ugh, I'm not explaining it well). 

*to be fair, it might just be her but from your description, I think there's some stuff you can work on too. It feels compartmentalized. Which then feels like you expect it or there's no lead up or that you are uninspired (which can be on her as well). Good luck

Edited August 16, 2023 by Versacehottie

[WorldTraveler]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Possibly, if she is responsive. 

You need to know - does she want words of affirmation in the way of - “you are so beautiful, you are an excellent cook, I appreciate the way you…” or does she want you to flirt more, or does she want you to be more assertive? You are not a mind reader - I would tell her that you are unclear about her expectations and ask her to clarify. 

Side note going back to sexual tension and innuendos. The day of our date she asked me “what should I wear tonight” I said something along the lines of something comfy but not too fancy. Whatever you wear you’ll look incredible regardless. Is this kind of what you mean? 
 

She was appreciative of that comment but then proceeded to wear leggings and a tank top and has said how she always feels under dressed because I always dress so well compared to her.

[Versacehottie]

12 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

Side note going back to sexual tension and innuendos. The day of our date she asked me “what should I wear tonight” I said something along the lines of something comfy but not too fancy. Whatever you wear you’ll look incredible regardless. Is this kind of what you mean? 
 

She was appreciative of that comment but then proceeded to wear leggings and a tank top and has said how she always feels under dressed because I always dress so well compared to her.

I'll reply (i'm sure Bailey will too ) ....Anyway, that's a good example of regardless of what she says it's an OPENING...and you took the safe way sort of...which is a compliment but it's not specific or sexual tension or uber confident or cheeky or playful. So you can say that but follow it up with something more interesting or more specific (don't over-compliment IMO but that's just me in reply to that sort of question from her).  You can also reverse it and say something specific (like you looked good to me in sweats & bedhead the other day!) and then tie it up with "well, you always look incredible regardless". You can also single out something that you noticed she wore and made a big impression on you in a prior dates--this is an opening not to answer in a practical way always. Also you then CONTINUE the banter on the date at the date about the subject, dressing (how she dresses/how you dress whatever). Personally I think 7-8 dates in, humor or confident light-heartedness is the way to go, PUNCTUATED by a quick reflection that is deeper ie joke, teasing, banter, then "Whatever you wear you’ll look incredible regardless" .

There is this thing in psychology where people fall more in like/in love with people who they've AFFECTED, made an impression on, who get somewhere with your by their own effort/being at their best.. Therefore, you have to be clear in showing that it was her effort, her uniqueness that has opened your mind and heart to her and drawn you closer to her. This is also helpful to you bc it then conveys that you are discerning and confident and don't grant any pretty girl access to your world but that she has to be qualified. So it becomes a win/win. Positive circle of win/wins.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Versacehottie

[Alpacalia]

She's already rebuffed your sexual advances several times.

What she's looking for is to develop a connection that is more than just physical. It sounds like you've done a great job physically and emphasizing your attraction to her, but that's only one way of creating a connection. Building a meaningful and deep relationship is also about spending quality time together and having meaningful conversations. So focus on building that emotional connection with her. Show her that your relationship is about more than just sex. Talk with her about topics and interests that are important to her. Ask her open-ended questions about her life, dreams, and goals. Show her you care about her and are interested in getting to know her better. Show her that you can be there for her and that you see a future for the two of you beyond the physical. By connecting with her on an emotional level, you can make sure that you transition from the friend zone to something more.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Gaeta]

44 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

As if my actions or inactions were making her feel this way.

To me she doesn't sound like a woman that needs reassurance but a woman that's used to men coming on real strong. Now she's meeting a gentleman in you and she's not recognizing the usual cues. 

Your styles may not align.

[WorldTraveler]

11 minutes ago, Versacehottie said:

I'll reply (i'm sure Bailey will too ) ....Anyway, that's a good example of regardless of what she says it's an OPENING...and you took the safe way sort of...which is a compliment but it's not specific or sexual tension or uber confident or cheeky or playful. So you can say that but follow it up with something more interesting or more specific (don't over-compliment IMO but that's just me in reply to that sort of question from her).  You can also reverse it and say something specific (like you looked good to me in sweats & bedhead the other day!) and then tie it up with "well, you always look incredible regardless". You can also single out something that you noticed she wore and made a big impression on you in a prior dates--this is an opening not to answer in a practical way always. Also you then CONTINUE the banter on the date at the date about the subject, dressing (how she dresses/how you dress whatever). Personally I think 7-8 dates in, humor or confident light-heartedness is the way to go, PUNCTUATED by a quick reflection that is deeper ie joke, teasing, banter, then "Whatever you wear you’ll look incredible regardless" .

There is this thing in psychology where people fall more in like/in love with people who they've AFFECTED, made an impression on. Therefore, you have to be clear in showing that it was her effort, her uniqueness that has opened your mind and heart to her and drawn you closer to her. This is also helpful to you bc it then conveys that you are discerning and confident and don't grant any pretty girl access to your world but that she has to be qualified. So it becomes a win/win. Positive circle of win/wins.

I think what you said in your previous reply hit the nail on the head and could be exactly what leaves her feeling the way she does. On most of our dates I don't really kiss her or get overly physical until towards the end of the night. While I do sprinkle in touch here and there throughout the dates I could maybe do more throughout and make it more consistent earlier on in the date. Our last date was the first time I greeted her with a kiss on the lips. Prior to that it was hugs and a kiss on the cheek. 

In regards to this reply, you mentioned how I "took the safe way" and I will admit there have been times I haven't done things or said things because I wanted to play it safe because she I wasn't sure how'd she'd react. Perfect example, when she asked me "what should I wear" I wanted to say "whatever you wear I know you'll look beautiful/sexy, but chose "incredible" instead because I felt like it was more mild and I didn't want to come off as too much. Even with her comfy attire, I made it a point to jokingly say how she nails the comfy look and how she can pull off the sexy soccer mom look, to which she laughed and appreciated the comment. 

[Alpacalia]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

To me she doesn't sound like a woman that needs reassurance but a woman that's used to men coming on real strong. Now she's meeting a gentleman in you and she's not recognizing the usual cues. 

Your styles may not align.

I think you nailed it Gaeta!

[WorldTraveler]

10 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

To me she doesn't sound like a woman that needs reassurance but a woman that's used to men coming on real strong. Now she's meeting a gentleman in you and she's not recognizing the usual cues. 

Your styles may not align.

She's told me that she's been love bombed in the past so I think you're correct in saying that. But that's also never been my dating style and so I definitely made sure not to cross over into that realm and could be what's caused me to be too careful with what I say or do.