I Am Perplexed. UDATE: do I walk away?

[Alpacalia]

So stop trying to love bomb her with more of the same. Here's the thing, when someone is sending you mixed signals. That's your cue to stop what you're doing. Stop trying to spice things up in a romantic and sexual way. I get that you want to take things to the next level and I get how exciting it can be. But she's telling you that she needs more connection and trust before jumping to that adventurous step.

There’s too many answers for why, however the solution is simple.

If she can’t handle speaking openly about this stuff then she isn't mature enough to be dating anyone.

Communication is a two-way street.

[Versacehottie]

13 minutes ago, WorldTraveler said:

I think what you said in your previous reply hit the nail on the head and could be exactly what leaves her feeling the way she does. On most of our dates I don't really kiss her or get overly physical until towards the end of the night. While I do sprinkle in touch here and there throughout the dates I could maybe do more throughout and make it more consistent earlier on in the date. Our last date was the first time I greeted her with a kiss on the lips. Prior to that it was hugs and a kiss on the cheek. 

In regards to this reply, you mentioned how I "took the safe way" and I will admit there have been times I haven't done things or said things because I wanted to play it safe because she I wasn't sure how'd she'd react. Perfect example, when she asked me "what should I wear" I wanted to say "whatever you wear I know you'll look beautiful/sexy, but chose "incredible" instead because I felt like it was more mild and I didn't want to come off as too much. Even with her comfy attire, I made it a point to jokingly say how she nails the comfy look and how she can pull off the sexy soccer mom look, to which she laughed and appreciated the comment. 

thank you I really do think it's the compartmentalization. It's like treating it as if it's Act I (we do this), Act II, we do this and then Act III we do THIS! Lol it can come off as uninspired, routine or inauthentic or all three!!

With the bolded, this is what I meant about using a different filter to your own...you are still processing the clues and "what you need to do" through the lens of a GUY. A guy, in general, is likely to think he needs to do more physical touch during the date to lead up to intimacy at the end of the date.  And what I'm indicating is that many women (and I suspect she is one of them), don't process the physical stuff and reasons for the same way. It's not a physical act like touching her within the date as if you are going through some rote routine...but that something she did was the cATALYST for the touch. Going back to your example of her question "what should I wear" being an OPENING (my take or analysis on it).  Let's say you guys have plans for date 8 and at the end of date 7, she says "what should I wear?"...then a comment like you did say "you look good in everything" preceded by something playful WITH physical touch is more likely to go over well with someone like her--that's my guess. It's almost like you melt thinking about her and her specialness and that is the catalyst. I wouldn't be surprised if unconsciously when she asks questions like that she is hoping to create more of the type of bond that would be romantic or sexual...Don't forget many women are conditioned to not be very direct. I think they like a "layered" emotional approach..It makes us think the relationship has depth and potential and like the person gets us. Lol it can be hard to figure out the puzzle that we are for sure. But I think your direct and logical approach won't work with this one for sure. It comes off as boring or lackluster and then becomes the impression for the relationship's potential itself.

She gives you a clue of what she likes (and I think it means I'm on the right track) with the joke and her laughing response. 2nd bolded above. IMO, do more of this in a very confident way and you will have a chance with her. TBH though 8 dates in is quite a way in WITHOUT a distinct impression being made--so perhaps her mind is made up already, ie maybe it's a no go. IMO, if you are really paying attention. I think her (genuine) laughing is kind of like a roadmap....tthat's why I capitalized FRIENDS on my other post...that's not necessarily a bad thing--but we want our sexy friends. Ones that show they can fulfill several roles in our lives and "get" us. IMO something like that is a good way to go--I don't know if you are past the point of return though, ie IMO my advice has validity even if it doesn't work with her...I think still apply more of this approach to the next girl if that's what happens. You need to be able to read their own specific roadmap. Everyone likes feeling like someone "gets" them...and appreciates their uniqueness.

[Lotsgoingon]

You are confusing romantic energy (which she wants) with sex. They are NOT the same. Not at all. 

[Els]

12 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

She told me how she views sex as a very special thing. To her, it's something where she wants to ensure that she has developed a connection with the person she's dating and wants to make sure things are progressing in a certain way rather than having sex with someone and then thing's falling apart only for the guy to leave.

If true, this sounds to me like she needs to be in a relationship before having sex. And that's a valid choice on her part... except that her communication is confusing. If this was what she wanted, then she should have said this from the start, instead of waffling around with "you're not romantic enough" and periods and UTIs. And in that case, you would have to decide whether you are willing to proceed further with this or not.

I'm of two minds here. I completely understand your frustration that you have been dragged around on a wild goose chase with the goalpost moving every date or so. Yet on the other hand, this is probably a cultural thing, but someone initiating sex 3 times in 7 dates despite being turned down every time just sounds insane to me. If it were me, I'd feel like the guy was being incredibly tone deaf and overly persistent, and that would be extremely unattractive to me. But on the other hand, I'd like to think that if I were her, I'd have communicated my needs in a much clearer manner from the start...

So, maybe this just isn't meant to be? It's a lot of strife for a "relationship" that's not even in the relationship phase yet.

[Gaeta]

@WorldTraveler: have you established that you are dating each other exclusively?

[WorldTraveler]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

@WorldTraveler: have you established that you are dating each other exclusively?

Yeah. She even made sure to reiterate it again on the last date. That she isn’t dating others and has no desire to do so. To which I agreed and told her how our connection is important to me and I want to put my energy and time into just one person. 

[introverted1]

2 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

sexy soccer mom look

Does she have kids?

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Sometimes if a guy hasn't done all that pre-work (no matter what he intends), it feels sort of like they are pouncing on you and that idk that they are very dull or presumptuous --merely because they didn't truly nurture the emotional connection part.

Very true. As a woman, when a man is friendly and things are platonic, if it gets to the end of the night and the expectation is that you want to get physical/have sex when there has been nothing really leading to sex… it can feel a little off-putting for a woman. IDK if this is what’s happening here, but you would be wise to build the emotional connection and flirt with her all night such that when the time comes to move things to the bedroom, she feels good about herself, she feels good about your connection, and she is ready to be intimate with you… I feel like men and women are different in this way - a man can literally mow the grass, take the garbage out, watch his favorite television show - and still turn up in bed feeling ready and in the mood for sex! While for a woman, the little things like cooking her a nice meal, holding her hand, rubbing her back, telling her that she looks beautiful, playfully teasing and flirting with her, etc… are all part of the experience of feeling close to you and wanting to get physical with a man. 

It’s the old saying - men want to have sex to feel love and women need to feel loved to want to have sex with a man. 

Just one idea of what she could mean when she says that she enjoys the connection that you have, she just doesn’t feel romantic/sexual toward you. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by BaileyB

[Alpacalia]

She wants an emotional connection. I am not sure why you're glaringly ignoring the obvious.

Emotional connection includes getting to know each other and understanding each other more deeply, trying to get inside her head and learn how she thinks and shares her feelings, being honest and vulnerable and truly letting her into your life.

That will lend itself to romantically and sexually charged moments more naturally. Don't just jump right into sex or try to force physical intimacy before the emotional bond is there. That can be a huge turn off and will never help your cause if that is what she is looking for. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

You are confusing romantic energy (which she wants) with sex. They are NOT the same. Not at all. 

BINGO! 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, WorldTraveler said:

 sprinkle in some cute, yet sexual comments throughout the day to build up tension leading up to our date? 

You seem to be getting along ok, but she may need more romance and affection rather than sex chat and "tension building", which sorry to say is cringeworthy.  Along with the "sexy soccer mom" remark. Unfortunately this could come across as interested in sex rather than her. 

She already knows you want sex so that's not the issue. Unfortunately you may be misinterpreting what she means. She hopes you like her not just sex. So please scale back on cheeky remarks and waiting until gametime to show any affection.

Try to build romance during the dates but not with sexual innuendos with connecting in other ways. 

[Kassieee]

Are your dates romantic?

Have you given her flowers?

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by SlimShadysWife

[Versacehottie]

1 hour ago, WorldTraveler said:

Yeah. She even made sure to reiterate it again on the last date. That she isn’t dating others and has no desire to do so. To which I agreed and told her how our connection is important to me and I want to put my energy and time into just one person. 

Yeah to me this seems like you both are behaving in a way that is a bit uptight (sorry!!)...Some people think, "well I can get exactly what I think I want by having these parameters and rules and stating what they want and expectations"...and they are getting it but it feels too clinical..It's forced..There wasn't a natural progression to this point defined by the correlated bond that drove you to exclusivity. Granted, people operating on all things on a spectrum..I would guess both of you feel more comfortable having things sorted out and defined, agreed upon rather than operating without much uncertainty...However, there is some tradeoff there...It's not like placing an online order or flipping a light switch , no matter what has been "negotiated"...which is exactly what you guys did by coming to that agreement. The thing is it isn't backed up by the real emotional connections that would have driven you to that point (on average)...so both of your expectations feel like they should be met because you have the agreement with each other but it feels hollow, or lackluster. (and in your case, too slow for the physical side). 

I've highlighted the problematic part and it's been part of my theme in my responses to you.  You ( both of you!) don't want to pick someone just because you are relatively attracted to someone, they fit the parameters on paper of what you are looking for and they have no objections.  Let's say her name is Sophia. You don't decide to just date "one person"...That's a limit or a decision from a negative place. You (each) need to be deciding that YOU want to date Sophia specifically and she wants to date WorldTraveler specifically...You see the difference/the nuance?  One is filling an opening, ie I have a general opening for a girlfriend....you'll do.  It's a "sufficing"...translation "lackluster" connection.  When you choose someone from a more organic place, it's their uniqueness/specialness that has propelled you to take action and decide to be exclusive or make a commitment to each other. The romantic intensity difference between these two scenarios is immense if you ask me. It can even be that you weren't looking for a girlfriend however Sophia is so amazing you want to lock her down. Right there is more good tension, see? I get it that people are more practical about these things but it never ceases to amaze me when people come with queries like this and think it s a good thing that they've locked down exclusivity but there is little to no meaning or emotional catalyst behind these decisions other than "that's how I like to date; that feels respectful to me and the alternative feels disrespectful; I read something online that said I should be getting that/asking for that".  Again, a person who behaves in that way is putting a general personal standard on every single person the same when each relationship and its evolution is different...It's exactly this stuff that can make the relationship feel not special or never take off the ground. And it can still look on paper like you "did everything right". The bolded is a GENERIC response rather than a Sophia specific response and it prob permeates the relationship or is reflective of it...I mean if anyone takes a generic or blanket approach, it feels boring, right? Lol TBH I probably wouldn't have liked that (bolded) response. It sounds flattering on the surface but is dull and soooooo uninspired in reality. So yeah despite her issues I think you need to do some changing of your approach. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Versacehottie

[Ami1uwant]

9 hours ago, Ageless Wisdom23 said:

It appears she is more into having you as some sort of Companion than anything more.  If she really felt Romantic, No excuses would be needed and you would already be having sex with her.  She could be Asexual, Anything at this point.  Or just finds you a great "Mate" as far as dinner and dancing goes.  I would not push the envelope  on trying to have sex.  I don't think anything you try will make much difference.  You decide from here where to go.....😐

Free meals comes to mind…..

[Ami1uwant]

2 hours ago, Alpacalia said:

She wants an emotional connection. I am not sure why you're glaringly ignoring the obvious.

Emotional connection includes getting to know each other and understanding each other more deeply, trying to get inside her head and learn how she thinks and shares her feelings, being honest and vulnerable and truly letting her into your life.

That will lend itself to romantically and sexually charged moments more naturally. Don't just jump right into sex or try to force physical intimacy before the emotional bond is there. That can be a huge turn off and will never help your cause if that is what she is looking for. 

I get the emotional connection part….

 

I would expect sex after 2 months of dating.  If I was thr OP I’d be serious asking her what this is and likely end any sense of romance thing here snd just call it friends.

[WorldTraveler]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You seem to be getting along ok, but she may need more romance and affection rather than sex chat and "tension building", which sorry to say is cringeworthy.  Along with the "sexy soccer mom" remark. Unfortunately this could come across as interested in sex rather than her. 

She already knows you want sex so that's not the issue. Unfortunately you may be misinterpreting what she means. She hopes you like her not just sex. So please scale back on cheeky remarks and waiting until gametime to show any affection.

Try to build romance during the dates but not with sexual innuendos with connecting in other ways. 

So if we continue to explore this and go on another date, should I hold off on making any sexual moves this time and let her be the one to do it. Rather use the date to focus on deepens an emotional connection outside of sex and if it happens at the end of the night great. Maybe that would be a better approach this time? 

[WorldTraveler]

2 hours ago, SlimShadysWife said:

Are your dates romantic?

Have you given her flowers?

 

 

Yeah we’ve cooked dinner together, had a picnic at the beach, and have gone a hike together overlooking a scenic view at sunset. I have not gotten flowers yet.

[WorldTraveler]

3 hours ago, BaileyB said:

Very true. As a woman, when a man is friendly and things are platonic, if it gets to the end of the night and the expectation is that you want to get physical/have sex when there has been nothing really leading to sex… it can feel a little off-putting for a woman. IDK if this is what’s happening here, but you would be wise to build the emotional connection and flirt with her all night such that when the time comes to move things to the bedroom, she feels good about herself, she feels good about your connection, and she is ready to be intimate with you… I feel like men and women are different in this way - a man can literally mow the grass, take the garbage out, watch his favorite television show - and still turn up in bed feeling ready and in the mood for sex! While for a woman, the little things like cooking her a nice meal, holding her hand, rubbing her back, telling her that she looks beautiful, playfully teasing and flirting with her, etc… are all part of the experience of feeling close to you and wanting to get physical with a man. 

It’s the old saying - men want to have sex to feel love and women need to feel loved to want to have sex with a man. 

Just one idea of what she could mean when she says that she enjoys the connection that you have, she just doesn’t feel romantic/sexual toward you. 

So considering I tried to make it feel less platonic by kissing on the lips to greet, hand holding, incorporating gentle touches and even putting my arm around her lower back as we walked… should I be incorporating more verbal things rather to increase the romance and emotional connection?

[BaileyB]

To be very honest, those are all very romantic and very thoughtful things to do. You sound like a very kind and thoughtful man. If she was another woman, she would absolutely adore you!

I don’t know why she is responding the way that she has - none of us really do. 

I still think you should ask her what she wants, as you were not sure what she meant by that statement. 

How can you possibly do what she wants you to do if she doesn’t tell you specifically what she expects? 

Edited August 16, 2023 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, WorldTraveler said:

 let her be the one to do it. 

This is definitely more appropriate.  However you need to determine if she's into you. Unfortunately your overly aggressive approach isn't working.

A woman will let you know when she's ready so you can skip the "tension building" and trying to land every date in bed.

If you are getting your dating tips from pick-up artist sites, please stop. It's backfiring. This entire "tension building", "making moves" etc stuff is turning women off, not on. 

[WorldTraveler]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

To be very honest, those are all very romantic and very thoughtful things to do. You sound like a very kind and thoughtful man. If she was another woman, she would absolutely adore you!

I don’t know why she is responding the way that she has - none of us really do. 

I still think you should ask her what she wants, as you were not sure what she meant by that statement. 

How can you possibly do what she wants you to do if she doesn’t tell you specifically what she expects? 

I do think confusion may be playing a role and limiting some things on her end. She recently has been working through some things in therapy from her past and has been prioritizing self care lately. So dating has taken a backseat for her over the last few weeks and while she told me it was never intentional she did apologize and didn’t want me to think her behavior was due to a lack of interest or anything like that. 

[BaileyB]

59 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately your overly aggressive approach isn't working.

A woman will let you know when she's ready so you can skip the "tension building" and trying to land every date in bed.

It’s been seven dates over two months - a kiss on the lips to greet her, some handholding, and making out… personally, I don’t see that as overly aggressive. Some men would have walked away by now. I don’t think that it’s unreasonable to expect physical intimacy to profess at this point in the relationship. The challenge here is - it’s not, and he is left wondering why…

[Alpacalia]

2 hours ago, Ami1uwant said:

I get the emotional connection part….

 

I would expect sex after 2 months of dating.  If I was thr OP I’d be serious asking her what this is and likely end any sense of romance thing here snd just call it friends.

Right but she is saying she wants to make sure things with “the person she’s dating” are progressing in a certain way & find deeper connection than just sex. So it could be that she wants a deeper connection on an emotional level before escalating to the physical level.

OP if you do not want to invest further then it might be best to move forward. Both need to be on the same page for it to work.

I see where both of you are coming from.

For him, if he wants to try and work things out then he needs to show her beyond words that he is really into her and wants to take things to the next level. She mentioned "he doesn't initiate romantic, sexual tension until the end of the night, which has left her questioning herself as to whether he's attracted to her or not." 

That means he needs to initiate the connection on an earlier part of their dates, even before the end of date. 

For her, she needs to be more open and communicative with him, giving him more guidance if she is looking for something particular, letting him know what she wants. She should also not doubt his level of interest or attraction in her, taking it as a sign that he is not yet ready, and communicate clearly with him about her expectations instead.

Overall, I think it’s a matter of understanding each other better and making sure you're both in alignment on the same expectations and level of intimacy before diving in deeper.

Communication and honesty is the key here.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Alpacalia

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, WorldTraveler said:

 She recently has been working through some things in therapy from her past and has been prioritizing self care lately. 

In this case just step back if she is alluding to not being ready, able or willing to date at this point in time. Step back try not to ask her out as much and see what happens. 

[WorldTraveler]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

In this case just step back if she is alluding to not being ready, able or willing to date at this point in time. Step back try not to ask her out as much and see what happens. 

I dialed it back and went a few days with talking to her before our last date because of her inconsistent behavior and communication and the result was her reaching out initiating conversation with me. Then she proceeded to ask for my availability because she wanted to see me and go on a date.