Favours and friends

[Supernova11]

I don’t spend time with her when she’s with family. Her family live in India. I’m in the UK. I’ve met them once when they flew over. We arrange to see each other, but her family phone her every day and often it ends up being when I’ve arranged to see her. So I amuse myself whilst she talks with her family for 20 minutes.

[glows]

Is it usually a specific time when the family calls? Time difference. 

There’s a strong likelihood she’s comfortable with you and treats you like a sister who doesn’t mind these calls. This isn’t considered a very big deal to some but understand you hate it. Have you told her how you felt? 

[Supernova11]

 

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

I disagree.

The nicest favors are the ones that don't have to be asked for:  my friend who puts my garbage can back at the side of the house when he visits just because he saw that the garbage collection had come, me having a friend's favorite drink/food on hand when they visit, going to the big box membership store and calling a friend to see if they need anything, etc. These are all favors but none are asked for.

I get what you mean but I think we just have different definitions. To me, these things are just part and parcel of being nice, I personally wouldn’t call them favours. When I was talking about favours when I created the post, I’m talking about people who specifically ask something of you to help them out. And there’s nothing wrong with asking favours, but there’s different levels and different frequencies - and I feel that my friend asks for a lot of favours (as you’ve probably seen when you read through my post). I also have to learn to keep saying no when I mean no, which I often do but  I’m also getting weary of being called on for things that aren’t my responsibility - and I usually feel guilty when I do say no. My issue I know.

[Supernova11]

32 minutes ago, glows said:

Is it usually a specific time when the family calls? Time difference. 

There’s a strong likelihood she’s comfortable with you and treats you like a sister who doesn’t mind these calls. This isn’t considered a very big deal to some but understand you hate it. Have you told her how you felt? 

Again, you might be right! I always see her at the weekend because we both work hard during the week. And yes, her family usually call some time from beginning of the afternoon to early evening. I know that during the week, her family call her every lunchtime.

I do think she may well treat me like a sister as I have never once complained about the calls even though it really irks me. I find it really rude  - I understand this is me. If anyone calls me when I’m with someone else - family or friend -   I tell them I’m with a friend and I’ll call them back.

I don’t understand how she can’t see that me sitting there waiting for her to finish the call, isn’t rude. I don’t understand how she can’t just say to her family “I have a friend here sorry, but we’ll catch up tomorrow anyway so let’s talk then”. I would feel embarrassed to have to spell this out to my friend and would worry it would cause an argument . In fact I wouldn’t know where to start. How can I tell her that I feel she should be spending quality time with the person she’s with and calling her family back once I’m gone? If I asked my mum to call me for 20 minutes every time I met my friend and let my friend sit there, maybe the message would get home (but I wouldn’t do that because it’s petty) or maybe she wouldn’t mind 😂

Edited June 4, 2023 by Supernova11

[Alpacalia]

You're seeing this as transactional, which isn't how friendship works.

Friendship is about connecting with someone on a deeper level, understanding each other's needs and wants, and learning to be there for each other. 

The opposite is true if you're busy and she asks for help and you can't help her, you can simply say you won't be able to help her. But you're gripe seems more about thinking she should just hire someone instead. This is her choice to make and she may have reasons for not wanting to hire someone.

I helped my best friend move into her new house, she certainly could have hired someone but I did not view it that way. I viewed it as a way to show her my support and be there for her. It was a chance for me to help her and let her know I am here for her. Similar to what your friend does when you're struggling through hardships, she lends an ear and emotional support.

Could it be that your disappointment is more with yourself for not being assertive in other areas of your life and projecting onto this particular friendship? Maybe you need to evaluate why you have been too passive in other areas? Maybe this friendship is a reflection of how you handle other relationships?

It could be that you are not setting the boundaries you need to in order to feel secure and respected. Consider if there is something you can do to change the dynamic of this friendship. Like you choosing to sit there while she is on the phone with her family. For example, you could politely tell her that you need to leave, and that you would like to catch up with her later.

[glows]

48 minutes ago, Supernova11 said:

Again, you might be right! I always see her at the weekend because we both work hard during the week. And yes, her family usually call some time from beginning of the afternoon to early evening. I know that during the week, her family call her every lunchtime.

I do think she may well treat me like a sister as I have never once complained about the calls even though it really irks me. I find it really rude  - I understand this is me. If anyone calls me when I’m with someone else - family or friend -   I tell them I’m with a friend and I’ll call them back.

I don’t understand how she can’t see that me sitting there waiting for her to finish the call, isn’t rude. I don’t understand how she can’t just say to her family “I have a friend here sorry, but we’ll catch up tomorrow anyway so let’s talk then”. I would feel embarrassed to have to spell this out to my friend and would worry it would cause an argument . In fact I wouldn’t know where to start. How can I tell her that I feel she should be spending quality time with the person she’s with and calling her family back once I’m gone? If I asked my mum to call me for 20 minutes every time I met my friend and let my friend sit there, maybe the message would get home (but I wouldn’t do that because it’s petty) or maybe she wouldn’t mind 😂

She thinks you’re ok with it though and you’re not. It’s not very authentic to yourself or her. If you’re not ok with telling her how you feel or think it may sound petty then do leave when it happens. I don’t agree with any passive aggressive retaliation - it’s not likely the message will get across and if your friend thinks you’re acting strange she will wonder why you just didn’t have the guts to be direct and call into question the entire basis of the friendship. 

Friendship like any other relationship requires, demands actually, that people be honest with themselves. We can’t be real with anyone else if we can’t face what we really think or feel. 

Anyway this takes us back to fear of losing her as a friend. I think there’s a gentle way of letting her know it feels uncomfortable sitting and waiting for the phone call to end and excusing yourself/leave if she does need to call. If it’s a whole evening or whole afternoon affair where you both are spending 2+ hours together then I think some understanding is needed on your part.

Her family clearly means a lot to her as does communicating every day. Is she supported by her parents or do they send her money? I don’t think it’s fair to expect a person who has been making daily calls to family overseas for x amount of time at specific times to suddenly skip a day and time. And besides, why would you want to be that friend who’s causing issues with family phone calls or preventing that? You’ll be the negative influence overseas and think about meeting her family again when they come to visit. This is an outsider’s view here also looking at your friend’s or parents possible view should this become a real issue.

Edited June 4, 2023 by glows

[Lotsgoingon]

Your next project: building a network of friends you really like. Takes time. Takes trial and error. Takes some luck.

But go for it! 

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

.

I don’t understand how she can’t see that me sitting there waiting for her to finish the call, isn’t rude. I don’t understand how she can’t just say to her family “I have a friend here sorry, but we’ll catch up tomorrow anyway so let’s talk then”.  😂

Why not excuse yourself and go home? This is her routine, her family, her culture and how they do things and she knows them all her life, they're not just around the corner.  Much easier to say "ok,  I'm heading out, catch up with you later".

[Supernova11]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Your next project: building a network of friends you really like. Takes time. Takes trial and error. Takes some luck.

But go for it! 

Thanks, I will.

The original post on here was about the amount of favours my friend asks of me. What I’ve discovered is that even though it’s up to me to say yes or no, I feel pressured to say yes and guilty if I say no. This pressure comes from me. The phone call thing has also arisen. I could leave when it happens or talk to her but the bottom line is she doesn’t think it’s rude (otherwise she wouldn’t do it) and I think it is - so there isn’t an answer to that issue.

I’m going to let things lie for a while. Ultimately I think at some stage we might split company. I have never met anyone in my life to date who has asked for as many favours as she has and there’s just something I don’t like about it, even though I know she has the right to ask and I have the right to say no. 

Thanks everyone

 

[stillafool]

4 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

How can I tell her that I feel she should be spending quality time with the person she’s with and calling her family back once I’m gone?

You just open your mouth and tell her the above. For some reason she doesn't sound like the type of person who would have a problem telling you how she really feels.  People like her have no idea you are suffering in silence because that is not something she would do around a close friend.  She would voice how she feels and expects the same from you.  If you were honest with her about your feelings your friendship would probably be closer.

[Supernova11]

 

5 minutes ago, stillafool said:

You just open your mouth and tell her the above. 

If I do that, she will first of all be shocked, then she will think I am being petty, she won’t change and will continue to talk to them and I’ll continue to sit there and there will be bad feeling. I need to accept that this is what she does and that I don’t like it but she will continue to do it. If I want her as my friend, it comes with 20 mins of family time. Maybe I just don’t like her enough. If I thought she was a good friend, this may not bother me. Who knows?

[Els]

9 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

Thanks for your response but I don’t agree (although I don’t want this topic to go too off course I thought I’d do a reply). Yes, I do cook for her but she prefers her own cooking so whilst she does like and eat my food, she often wants to eat Indian food so we do eat more at hers, she really enjoys cooking and is really good at it. We also eat out together. I think of a favour as something you ask someone to do knowing it is slightly putting them out. I never ask her to cook for me, she always offers so it is not a favour. Just as when I offer to cook for her or offer to drive us when we go out somewhere, I’m just doing this because she’s my friend, I’m not doing her a favour.

A favour is explicitly asked for.

This may be YOUR definition of a favour, but have you asked her what HER definition is?

I'm not saying you're wrong and she's right, it just looks to me like she views it as all the same regardless of whether it's asked for or not. In order to avoid these kinds of conflicts, communication is key. Personally though, I'd view it as a very one-sided friendship if she was cooking for you often (especially if you weren't bringing anything over to offset the cost of the groceries) and you weren't really doing much in return. If a friend was really cooking for me on a regular basis... well, I wouldn't accept that to begin with, but if I did, you better believe I'd be holding up wallpaper for her when she asks.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Els

[stillafool]

21 minutes ago, Supernova11 said:

If I do that, she will first of all be shocked, then she will think I am being petty, she won’t change and will continue to talk to them and I’ll continue to sit there and there will be bad feeling

So what if she feels you are being petty for expressing yourself.  That is what real friends do.  You don't know that she won't change until you do it.  It's better to express yourself rather than resent her for something she has no idea you're upset over.

[Lotsgoingon]

A good rule that I have tried to adopt is to notice and act and speak up when I'm feeling ignored, neglected and when I'm working hard to make myself comfortable with feeling neglected. 

Start awkward--it's OK if the words aren't perfect, but start noticing when you are holding your breath (literally and figuratively), clenching your stomach or spinning a complicated story to justify absorbing and accepting discomfort (like when someone is on the phone for 20 minutes) and you'll get better. 

Another way to look at this is to say: you have a right (really a duty) to speak up if you're in pain while with a friend. And discomfort pain isn't all that different than pain-pain. A huge discomfort in relationships is when I'm working so hard to reassure myself that there is a reason for me feeling bad, insecure and ignored and so on. 

What really helped me was to practice by myself. Recall different scenarios where I went silent and then practice (usually standing, sometimes in front of the mirror) speaking words that feel good to me. You do that and try variations on the wording and I'll usually hit a wording that just resonates in my body. It feels comfortable and yet effective. 

The good news is that once I started to do this--even awkwardly--it was amazing how quickly and kindly people responded, responded positively. Anyway, be kind to yourself--frankly, I only learned to speak up after multiple painful experiences in relationship. I wish I could have learned to speak up while not going through pain. But I guess I needed the pain to spur me into rewiring my brain. 

 

[basil67]

Regarding the phone call thing, how about you discuss it with her?   

"When I'm visiting, you often get a long phone call from your family.  I imagine you must miss them terribly.  However, when you're on the phone for so long, I feel X.  Would it be possible to schedule our visits at a time when it won't clash with your phone call?"

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

 I’ll continue to sit there and there will be bad feeling. I need to accept that this 

There's no need for you to "sit there". In fact, actions speak louder than words, so when she gets on the phone simply say "got to go, see you later". It's a win-win situation for you.

You wouldn't be annoyed, can do whatever you want and it sends the message that you're not going to hang around for it, which is preferable to telling her how to act in her house with her family.

[Ageless Wisdom23]

Stop enabling  her.  You are being used and taken advantage of.  Learn to Say "Sorry, I can't.  My schedule is getting busier now that it is summer."  Maybe this is a test that this is just one of those Fair Weather Friends.  I'd say if So, Good Riddance.😑

Edited June 5, 2023 by Ageless Wisdom23