Favours and friends

[Supernova11]

I have a friend who I feel asks quite a few favours.  I am the sort of person who is very independent - I can’t even remember when I last asked for favours - so in this respect my friend and I are quite different. When it comes to looking after the house, I do what I can and then get a handyman or tradesperson in for the things I can’t do.

My friend has asked me if I will come over and help her fit lining paper. I said I can come over for two hours tomorrow to help. But I’m worried we won’t get much done and she’ll ask me back to do more.

I don’t actually want to do it at all. It’s my weekend and I want to relax. If this was me, I would be paying someone to do it. I wouldn’t ask a friend.

What are your guys opinions on this? I know part of my problem is boundaries but I also didn’t want to be totally honest and say “I don’t want to” and cause an argument.

What are your thoughts on this guys? Can someone help me navigate and am I being unreasonable?

Edited June 2, 2023 by Supernova11

[MsJayne]

No, you're not being unreasonable. As a female who owned a house for many years something I always accepted was that I had to pay people to do maintenance stuff that I couldn't do myself. If someone offered a favour, (key word - "offered"), I would sometimes accept it but it would always be reciprocated somehow.  Your friend is presumptuous and maybe a little rude, and if it was me I would probably put a stop to it by not being available even if it meant lying about being busy.  Something I've always noticed is that the people who freely ask for your time are too often the same people who disappear when you need help. 

[JTSW]

Not everyone can afford to pay people to do things.

If you don't want to do it, just tell her you are busy that weekend visiting family or something.

[glows]

I’d mention you’re not the best person for the job. The problem is boundaries which you identified so don’t make yourself as available. She may be upset with you but you’ll have to make peace that this is perhaps not the kind of friendship you’re looking for.

[ExpatInItaly]

5 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

don’t actually want to do it at all. It’s my weekend and I want to relax. If this was me, I would be paying someone to do it. I wouldn’t ask a friend.

You need to understand two things: 

1) This person is not you, so you can't expect them to think or act the way you do. You are obviously different, as you said. It therefore doesn't really make sense to compare what you would do to what this friend does

2) You have to stop saying "yes" when what you really mean is "no." A simple, "I'm sorry, but I can't make it" is all you need. This person can't cause an argument if you don't engage in combative dialogue. If they persist in challenging you and getting upset that you can't help, you might want to re-evaluate this friendship. 

[Lotsgoingon]

I say take a breath and get to how horrible it would be in your mind to go help her with that work. 

Shake your head no and say, "I'm sorry, I just am not up for that this weekend. I'm not. And to be honest, I hate doing home fixing work. I really hate that kind of work."

Gritting your teeth and going is likely to produce resentment on your part--and look, if you and she are friends, you will have to be able to be honest about the kinds of favors you feel comfortable doing. If your friendship can't survive a no here, then the friendship was shallow and fragile anyway. 

Also, if you do this you are actually likely to be called on again to do this kind of work. People make the mistake of thinking OK, I'll do it this one time and I'll be done. But showing up and doing the work tells the other person that you can do this work and unless you are fiercely grouchy and mean and insistent, the message of showing up is I'm fine with doing this kind of help. So if you go,  you're going to get asked again. And you'll live in dread of being asked again. And you'll be back to where you are right now.

Might as well cut that off at the root. 

[ShyViolet]

If you allow someone else to treat you like a doormat and take advantage of you, they will do it again and again.  Say no and do not feel bad about it.  You can either be honest and say you just don't want to, or you can make up a white lie about why you can't.  Either way, do not get into the habit of being a people-pleaser.

If this person gets upset with you for saying no, they are not someone you should be friends with.

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

My friend has asked me if I will come over and help her fit lining paper. I said I can come over for two hours tomorrow to help. 

It seems like she just wants company. This doesn't sound like something she can't manage.  Did you agree to it? If so keep it brief. If not tell her you're busy and perhaps you two could get together for lunch sometime.

[Supernova11]

Thank you everyone for getting back to me, really appreciate all your replies but especially @Lotsgoingon your post really hit home. Until I read your post I was still going to go because I said I would but then I realised I would be full of resentment so I called her.

I told her I hated DIY and I really didn’t want to do it. I told her I would come over feeling resentful and feeling like I’d been forced into it, even though I knew she wasn’t forcing me (I said this to her)

what’s interesting is that at this point she said not to worry, it was only one small wall and she just needed someone to hold the paper. She then said she’ll ask one of her neighbours or another friend who helps her a lot with things.

I suggested to get a handy person out but she said she had already done that and the quotes were coming back between £400-£450 and she didn’t want to pay that for one wall when she thinks she can do it herself (with someone holding the paper).

Anyway, I’m so glad that I didn’t go over but it’s kind of started me thinking about part 2 which is how I feel about our friendship. I’m so reluctant to let friends go at the moment - I had another post on here about losing friends/making friends a while ago. But there are just so many instances where she has called on me to do things - most of the time I haven’t.

To give you a couple of examples, she wanted me to work from her house instead of mine for a day because she had builders in and she didn’t want to leave the builders in the house on their own whilst she was at a work meeting all day - I said no because I was setup to work at my house. Also I’m only allowed to work from a designated area so it was an no. Also I don’t want builders when I’m trying to work?! Or maybe I just want to work at home and not hers as well.

Another example, a few months ago, a friend was staying with her and he got covid. She was going for a weekend holiday break and didn’t want to risk catching it so she asked if she could stay overnight at my house. Stupidly I said yes and then she went back to get stuff from the house - so putting herself at risk of Covid anyway - AND she went back into the same house a second time where he still was, to have a shower in the morning (because my shower wasn’t working, only the bath) and then came BACK to my house again. 

I don’t know guys?!?! I’m not feeling this and haven’t for a while to be honest 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Supernova11

[Lotsgoingon]

Yes, I was thinking about that second question: whether this was really someone you wanted to be friends with. 

In my experience, saying no to people for favors I do NOT want to grant actually clarifies the friendship. Sometimes the friendship just disappears--especially after a "no." In which case, the no only hastened what was naturally occuring.  Other times the friendship is fine. 

Why didn't she tell you how "small" the job was at her house? Anyway, congrats: feel good. The more you can say no, then there's more room to say "yes" when you want to say yes. 

Is she and you can be real friends, this "no" on your part won't be a problem. Another angle: a good friend would probably know you don't like that type of work and so would approach you with respect. I'm not picking that this woman has that kind of respect and awareness of you and your preferences.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Lotsgoingon

[Supernova11]

I wanted to give some examples of how my friend and I differ.

We both have very different views on money, life outlook (I’m an atheist, she is Hindu) and treatment of friends. 

To give examples, in terms of money, she is really into buying gold jewellery. She is Indian and has explained to me that in India, buying gold jewellery is a significant thing and is an investment. She buys herself a set of gold jewellery every year. But the thing is, she is always in debt. I know it’s up to her how she spends her money but it’s the way her eyes light up when talking about buying gold jewellery, I personally couldn’t give a damn about gold jewellery. I think it’s a superficial thing and it makes her seem superficial to me.

In terms of life outlook, as she is Hindu, she believes in reincarnation whereas I don’t think there is any evidence for reincarnation. It’s not as simple as not talking about religion because when you believe something, your views will end up coming out naturally as you speak.  We have had conversations where she tells me one of my friends who is seriously ill will be reborn and these talks and others that involve her views wind me up and push us further apart.

In terms of treatment of friends, we’ve already discussed asking for favours. But another thing that happens is her family will call from India and I have to sit and wait whilst she has a talk with them. I understand the need to keep in contact when you live overseas (my brother lives overseas), but she already speaks to them every day for a catch up. Yes, they talk every single day. So if her mum calls and I am there, would it hurt to say that she has a friend visiting and they will catch up tomorrow? So I sit there like a lemon or ‘go on my phone’ whilst they talk for 20 minutes. Her parents have flown over and I met them, they were really nice but I find it rude that I have to sit there whilst they catch up from the previous day. I would say this happens 70% of the time when I see my friend.

As I write these things, I’m conscious that many of these things will be deemed cultural but I also think the line can become blurred between what is cultural and what is acceptable. And just because something is practiced in a culture, doesn’t make it right.

I’m also aware that I can’t change any of these situations (and there are more) so if they’re annoying me now….

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Supernova11

[glows]

If she irritates you that much you’re not much of a friend already to be honest. Let’s flip the tables around. Are you reluctant to let her go because of few friends? 

I tend to agree with you on some of those issues. Not sure if “one small wall” will turn out to be several rooms.. it doesn’t sound like you have much trust or faith in her.

 

 

[Wiseman2]

52 minutes ago, Supernova11 said:

 I sit there like a lemon or ‘go on my phone’ whilst they talk for 20 minutes.  I find it rude that I have to sit there whilst they catch up from the previous day

Try not to hang out or hang around when she is calling or hosting her family. Why not step back and only get together every so often when you're both free? 

[Supernova11]

39 minutes ago, glows said:

If she irritates you that much you’re not much of a friend already to be honest.

As much as it hurts a little to read this, you are 100% correct. She irritates me a lot and I have not communicated any of these irritations to her. And if she knew how I really felt about some of these issues, she may not even want to be friends with me.

 

43 minutes ago, glows said:Are you reluctant to let her go because of few friends? 

Are you reluctant to let her go because of few friends?

And when I read this, my heart just went ‘yes I am’ 😔 My immediate response is, if I had a bunch of really good friends, I  probably wouldn’t want to see her. But now I’m in my 40’s I’ve had to deal with the question “what is a really good friend” as friends seem to have become less plentiful and all people have their quirks. The perfect friend doesn’t exist so when I say “If I had a bunch of really good friends, I probably wouldn’t want to see her” - I’m wondering if I have images of amazing friends that don’t actually exist. Then I wonder if my friend is so bad. She likes to cook for me so generous in that way,  we have intelligent conversation (but have to watch for certain topics), she bought me a birthday present which was thoughtful, she is reliable - if you make a date then she never cancels, she is there.   But do I like her? Sort of. But I feel like she wants things a lot. The thing is, I can’t say she is ‘there’ for me because I’ve never asked her for anything.

You are 100% right about being scared to let her go because of having few friends. It’s quite an emotional point for me. My weekends are getting quieter and quieter because I’ve less people to spend time with. I’ve had whole weekends where the only other people I’ve spoken to are the cashier in Sainsbury’s and seeing my mum - and this pattern is becoming more and more frequent. I am definitely a little depressed about it although I am still making effort to go out and do things on my own. I also tell myself this time in my life is a test in how comfortable I am with my own company.

[Supernova11]

45 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Try not to hang out or hang around when she is calling or hosting her family. Why not step back and only get together every so often when you're both free? 

Her family call her, then she’ll answer and this is why I don’t understand why she can’t say I’ll call you tomorrow - or even ignore the call and call back? It’s a daily catch up with everyone back home so very unlikely much will be missed.

[Supernova11]

18 minutes ago, Supernova11 said:

My weekends are getting quieter and quieter because I’ve less people to spend time with. I’ve had whole weekends where the only other people I’ve spoken to are the cashier in Sainsbury’s and seeing my mum - and this pattern is becoming more and more frequent. I am definitely a little depressed about it although I am still making effort to go out and do things on my own. I also tell myself this time in my life is a test in how comfortable I am with my own company.

I should add that I am seeing friends today and saw friends last Saturday! It’s not all gloom and doom but I am definitely seeing less people and spending more time alone not by choice.

[Wiseman2]

32 minutes ago, Supernova11 said:

 why she can’t say I’ll call you tomorrow - or even ignore the call and call back? .

If it bothers you, you could simply excuse yourself and get together another time. There's no reason to hang around if she's busy.

Try to invest more in the real issue of feeling isolated/lonely. That may help you feel better about having someone like this as a friend.

Broaden your social horizons. Join some groups and clubs, volunteer, get involved in sports and fitness, take some classes and courses .

That way you can meet and mingle with more like-minded people and make more friends. Then you wouldn't feel dependent on her for company.

[glows]

8 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

As much as it hurts a little to read this, you are 100% correct. She irritates me a lot and I have not communicated any of these irritations to her. And if she knew how I really felt about some of these issues, she may not even want to be friends with me.

 

And when I read this, my heart just went ‘yes I am’ 😔 My immediate response is, if I had a bunch of really good friends, I  probably wouldn’t want to see her. But now I’m in my 40’s I’ve had to deal with the question “what is a really good friend” as friends seem to have become less plentiful and all people have their quirks. The perfect friend doesn’t exist so when I say “If I had a bunch of really good friends, I probably wouldn’t want to see her” - I’m wondering if I have images of amazing friends that don’t actually exist. Then I wonder if my friend is so bad. She likes to cook for me so generous in that way,  we have intelligent conversation (but have to watch for certain topics), she bought me a birthday present which was thoughtful, she is reliable - if you make a date then she never cancels, she is there.   But do I like her? Sort of. But I feel like she wants things a lot. The thing is, I can’t say she is ‘there’ for me because I’ve never asked her for anything.

You are 100% right about being scared to let her go because of having few friends. It’s quite an emotional point for me. My weekends are getting quieter and quieter because I’ve less people to spend time with. I’ve had whole weekends where the only other people I’ve spoken to are the cashier in Sainsbury’s and seeing my mum - and this pattern is becoming more and more frequent. I am definitely a little depressed about it although I am still making effort to go out and do things on my own. I also tell myself this time in my life is a test in how comfortable I am with my own company.

Yeah, I get it. It’s good that you see there are advantages to her friendship such as her generosity and being on time. You say you’ve never asked for anything or it may be a rare occasion but it sounds like for you quality time and spending weekends with a friend/friends is important. Actually you ARE asking that of her in the friendship even though it may not be at the forefront or not too conscious about it - you’re asking her basically to be there for you on weekends and to spend time as friends. Not everyone is like that.. I actively seek more alone time on weekends with my dog for instance because I just can’t get enough time on my own. It’s so extremely precious to me. That means boundaries. For you weekends mean time spent with friends and people who are caring towards you. And she’s there when she says she’ll be. That’s a good friend Imo.

Do you also feel guilty saying no? You gotta stop that. You can be a good friend to someone and still maintain yourself. Be polite though unless someone really pushes you. About the phone calls to her family and her religious beliefs I think those are things you’ll have to figure out if you can overlook and learn to appreciate about her. My closest and longest friendship is with an old kindergarten/grade 1 friend who practices both Catholicism and Hinduism. There is an alter and a shrine at her home. Sure, it may screw with some people’s ideas of religion but it sure doesn’t bother me. I’m Catholic and don’t give a damn. 

As long as someone is a good person I’ve got no issue at all. She likes gold.. ok. Some have other quirks and hobbies. You’ll also have to figure out whether they offend or go against your values. I think it’s important to ask yourself that and then see whether you’re compatible as friends. 

[glows]

Good grief *altar

[Stret]

Geez, I was going to ask my friend to come over and hold a pole for sunshade while I'm installing the other one (a two person job) but now I'm thinking I have to go looking for phone numbers of handymen, wait for a week or two, then have some dudes at my home, pay them, etc. All that instead of 20-30 min of a helping hand. 
Seems like you're not much of a friend to her, so perhaps you should stop referring to her as such.  

[Els]

I would never ask a friend for a favour unless it was extremely small or something that literally nobody else can do (e.g. writing a personal reference) or something that we had mutually agreed to help each other with reciprocatively.

In your position, I would absolutely say no. If that causes an argument, then the person isn't really a friend, are they?

[Els]

14 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

She likes to cook for me so generous in that way

I just read this part. If you are accepting this from her regularly and not cooking for her in return, then it makes sense that she thinks it's okay for her to ask such favours of you, because otherwise there's no reciprocation on your part. If you don't want to be doing favours for friends regularly, then you need to stop accepting them.

And yes, I know, you didn't ask her to. It doesn't matter. Regardless of whether or not you asked for it, someone cooking for you is definitely a favour.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Els

[Supernova11]

Thanks for your response but I don’t agree (although I don’t want this topic to go too off course I thought I’d do a reply). Yes, I do cook for her but she prefers her own cooking so whilst she does like and eat my food, she often wants to eat Indian food so we do eat more at hers, she really enjoys cooking and is really good at it. We also eat out together. I think of a favour as something you ask someone to do knowing it is slightly putting them out. I never ask her to cook for me, she always offers so it is not a favour. Just as when I offer to cook for her or offer to drive us when we go out somewhere, I’m just doing this because she’s my friend, I’m not doing her a favour.

A favour is explicitly asked for. Some examples of a favour:

”would you feed my cat for two weeks whilst I’m on holiday?”

”would you help me with some DIY decorating next weekend?”

Edited June 4, 2023 by Supernova11

[introverted1]

2 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

A favour is explicitly asked for. Some examples of a favour:

I disagree.

The nicest favors are the ones that don't have to be asked for:  my friend who puts my garbage can back at the side of the house when he visits just because he saw that the garbage collection had come, me having a friend's favorite drink/food on hand when they visit, going to the big box membership store and calling a friend to see if they need anything, etc. These are all favors but none are asked for.

[Wiseman2]

2 hours ago, Supernova11 said:

 when I offer to cook for her or offer to drive us when we go out somewhere, I’m just doing this because she’s my friend.

Why not keep your friendship in an area that prevents resentment? For example you two like to go out to eat and cook.

If hanging out with her when she's busy with family or asks you to do something you don't like, it's ok to go home or tell her you're busy with other things.

You have control over this, all you can do be busier when she's busy with family or household projects.