Tough time and struggling (I'm the OW)

[Sunny8]

Firstly, I’ll try keep this brief. 
 

I know I will probably (quite rightly) get a lot of stick for this but as I can’t really share with anyone I thought this would be as safe as anywhere as there may be people who have been in my situation. 
 

Last June my H (together for 20y since being teens) did the last thing I ever expected and left me for another woman. We have 3 kids age 4-10. He was unhappy but never vocalised in a serious way. I stuck by him because he had issues other than just me. We remained close and v friendly, yes we continued to be intimate despite him still being with the OW. He said he would never not want to be friends and ‘never say never’ in terms of us and whether eventually he would try and win me back. He moved out in Sept. Early Feb he went into an intensive 2 week therapy.
 

A month or so before this I’d been speaking to a guy at work (a MM) on a Teams call who id known for 2 years and we used to speak about our kids etc - we got on  well  but were strictly work acquaintances (although I found out later  he had always found me attractive). Anyway, I was having a down day re my separation and I told him, despite only 2 others at work knowing (We work for a massive company). I must have trusted him. He was supportive and offered to talk anytime even though we didn’t know each other that well. A few weeks later, we exchanged personal  numbers and from that evening for the next 3 weeks we messaged throughout the day then constantly at night (from 9/10pm until 2/3am). My H noticed I was online and saw my messages pop up and that I was smiling at my phone. At this point it was purely innocent chat. H got angry that I would find now to ‘replace him’ when he was going through such a tough time with therapy and that I deserted him when he needed me. Note he’d asked for space during this time which I gave to him and I asked every few days how he was and told him I was there. He warned me that what I was doing with the constant messaging was bordering on an affair and that it would develop so to be careful. I denied this as I truly believed it wouldn’t. 
 

The late nights turned more into 11/12 but not a night went by where we wouldn’t chat in the eve even if either of us was out, or we’d chat after. We also met up just for coffee/a walk/ meal once a week. Mid March I had a work event me and this MM were attending (I wasn’t supposed to be going but he helped me get an invite). Chat up to then acknowledged we could get ourselves into trouble esp if drunk and we couldn’t make it obvious to colleagues we were such good friends. We met beforehand but staggered arrivals to the hotel, we’d planned for him to come back to my room for drinks/snacks after which when you say it out loud it was obvious, but not at the time. Anyway, as you’d guess, we had a great night spending some time together in the event but without being obvious then we went back to my room and of course one thing led to another. 
 

Over the next couple of weeks we continued to meet and the intimacy continued. We even booked time off work to spend the day together. He then said we couldn’t let the physical side continue. He didn’t want to stop meeting and messaging because he genuinely enjoys our time together and we make each other laugh so much. We’ve shared many personal and intimate details neither of us have shared before. And  either of us have ever done anything like this - he maintains if his friends have ever cheated on their partners he’s given them hell for it. But he now sees it’s not black and white.
 

At first we both denied it was an affair. Then we realised it was and we were just in denial. Things had just progressed and we had not realised until we were quite far in. I didn’t/haven’t suggested we take it further or that he should leave his family. I couldn’t be the OW that was responsible for the breakdown of a family like the OW in my situation with my H. My H maintains I already am that woman but way worse, because I’m the scum of the earth and has stooped so low no other woman would do what I have. 
 

The reason for this is there’s an added complication that I’ll get backlash for - his wife is/was pregnant with their second child. She’s actually just given birth in the last day.  
 
Anyway, we continued to manage meeting up once a week and our nightly messages have continued without fail. There’s not been a time since Jan/Feb we’ve had longer than an hour or 2 without a message. We managed to keep the meets without anything physical. However our messaging has continued to be very flirty/sexual and even conversation in person. In the last few weeks/month or so we even got into full on sexting I’m ashamed to say. In the last 2 weeks we then saw each other 4 times. And despite having approx 6 weeks without any physical intimacy, on the last occasion we broke that and we were intimate. His wife was only a week away from birth so he then couldn’t get out. This last week the messages have not had the sexual content because he says he realised how close it is to ‘you know what’ (we don’t talk about his wife or the pregnancy). 

His messages were less frequent yesterday so I figured something and yest eve I get a message to say I can’t message as much over the next 24h. I’ve literally just heard from him asking how I am. 

As a result of my H finding out parts about what’s happened with me and the MM my H has said he hates me, could happily never see me again and we are now not even amicable. 
 

I know what I’ve done is so unbelievably morally wrong but I’m struggling so much. I have such strong feelings for him and all my happy times over the last 6 months (other than with my kids) have been with him. We have such a strong connection and this is despite me thinking I would never be able to trust another man again. I’m confident and truly myself around the MM and we seem to know each other inside out. 
 

He’s said he realises we will go through some uncertainty initially but we still want to meet up the same and be just as close. But somehow we will have to try and get it back to the ‘friend’ zone even though we haven’t been in this since January. Being honest I know what we’ve been doing has been an affair all along - emotional/physical. But if we haven’t been able to stop so far or even acknowledge what it is, can we going forward? I cannot think of anything worse than cutting him out and he feels the same. 
 

I get I shouldn’t be having a pity party right now in the circumstances but I just feel so unbelievably down. 
 

Im not looking for sympathy because I don’t deserve  but I’m sure others have been in a similar situation.  
 

sorry it’s so long, trust me this is the brief version!

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, Sunny8 said:

We have 3 kids age 4-10. . He moved out in Sept. .My H maintains I already am that woman but way worse, because I’m the scum of the earth and has stooped so low no other woman would do what I have. 

we’d planned for him to come back to my room for drinks/snacks after. The reason for this is there’s an added complication that I’ll get backlash for - his wife is/was pregnant with their second child.

Sorry this is happening. How does your estranged husband know all about your affair? Did he move back in? Are you in an open relationship now?

Consult an attorney and discuss your situation. Move forward with the divorce, since he abandoned the marital home.

If you continue with this married man it will lead to double the heartaches and heads. One is dealing with your estranged husband and separation, the other is dealing with an office romance that will turn out badly for you. Revenge cheating won't make you feel better.

 

[Sunny8]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry this is happening. How does your estranged husband know all about your affair? Did he move back in? Are you in an open relationship now?

Consult an attorney and discuss your situation. Move forward with the divorce, since he abandoned the marital home.

If you continue with this married man it will lead to double the heartaches and heads. One is dealing with your estranged husband and separation, the other is dealing with an office romance that will turn out badly for you. Revenge cheating won't make you feel better.

 

No definitely not an open relationship. He is still with the OW, lives in his own place and we just aren’t talking because of my actions. Because he lied so much to me even after Dday we agreed no lies whatsoever. So when he confronted me whether something had happened with me and MM at the work event I couldn’t lie. But he doesn’t know the extent or that it’s continued, he just thinks it’s purely friendship and no sexual texts or physical intimacy, however he maintains it’s still an affair on the basis the MM still lies to his wife when we meet up. 
 

I do need to speak to a solicitor and figure  out my options. I’m also speaking to a counsellor to talk through what’s happening with my feelings for the MM. It’s not revenge, I didn’t want to get involved with anyone and thought it would be years before I even felt comfortable doing so. This is why what’s happened/happening with MM has taken me by such a shock, especially given his situation. 
 

He’s asking how I am etc and said he still wants to message me now but I’ve said you’re busy, you’re in a bubble and as hard as it is not to be in contact I’m trying to respect what’s going on. He’s just said “Messages won't stop but yes, agreed I need to focus elsewhere for a short while. Thank you for the understanding”

What am I doing and why do I feel this way?! 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, Sunny8 said:

He is still with the OW, lives in his own place . I do need to speak to a solicitor and figure  out my options. I’m also speaking to a counsellor to talk through what’s happening with my feelings for the MM.

Yes, you do. Your husband abandoned you and the children and you need to file for divorce and get an appropriate child support in place for your children. Your children are the victims here. Focus on their well being.

This affair will end in yet another abandonment and heartbreak for you. It's not the solution, it's compounding your problems.

[BaileyB]

Kindly, this is a right mess.

Your husband cheated on you and you stayed friends with the man? You continued to be intimate with the man while he is pursuing another woman? He said “‘never say never’ in terms of us and whether eventually he would try and win me back?” I found myself asking as I read your story, where is your self respect? Why are you waiting around for him to decide if he wants his affair partner or your marriage? You have essentially allowed him to have both!!

1 hour ago, Sunny8 said:

I have such strong feelings for him and all my happy times over the last 6 months (other than with my kids) have been with him. We have such a strong connection and this is despite me thinking I would never be able to trust another man again. I’m confident and truly myself around the MM and we seem to know each other inside out. 

My friend, you shouldn’t trust THIS man. He is cheating on his pregnant wife with you - this is not a man you should ever trust. He is not a man of good character.

Again, reading your post I get the sense that life just happens to you. It’s your life - you make the decisions in your own life - and you find yourself in not one, but two, really unhealthy relationships. You are passing the time, hoping that one of these two men will chose you. I get the sense that you don’t even really realize that. 

My suggestion is to get yourself tested for STD’s and find yourself a counsellor. If it was me, I would make an appointment with a lawyer because in no way do I stay with a man who has chosen another woman. And, I would tell your affair partner to be with his wife, who has just delivered his child. She does not deserve this, and I could not be a part of this -

Edited June 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, first and foremost - it's time to end your marriage. 

Your husband is complete piece of work, and if I may be blunt, you have no self-respect. Why on earth are you continuing any sort of intimate relationship with him while he has a new girlfriend? Not that your affair is anything to protect, but it's pretty rich that your husband is crucifying you for that while he left you for his own mistress. What in the actual eff. Stop all conversations with him about anything other than the dissolution of this marriage. There won't be any salvaging this one. 

1 hour ago, Sunny8 said:

I have such strong feelings for him and all my happy times over the last 6 months (other than with my kids) have been with him. We have such a strong connection and this is despite me thinking I would never be able to trust another man again. I’m confident and truly myself around the MM and we seem to know each other inside out

This is typical of someone deep in the so-called affair fog. You have got your blinders on about all of this. You two don't know each other inside and out. You have never spent any extended length of time together for that to be possible. You have operated only in the shadows, and while that's thrilling to an extent, it's not reality. It's snippets of the most "exciting" stuff. And in your case, it's a fantasy-based escape from the pain of your own husband's infidelity. You have no idea if you'd get along once the daily routines set in, or if this "connection" is only existent because you're both lacking something in your personal lives and looking for a life raft. That life raft usually loses its urgent appeal once you are back on solid ground, if you get the metaphor. 

1 hour ago, Sunny8 said:

I would never be able to trust another man again.

And you really shouldn't trust this one either. He's worse than most cheating husbands. He's the kind who cheats on his pregnant wife. You would be naive to think you could trust this person for a hot minute. Your husband and this guy have a lot in common. And think of how much your husband hurt you. This man is doing the same thing, but worse. Your husband actually did the right thing by leaving the marriage (even though he's still a punk) This MM? Nah. He's a bigger cake-eater than your husband. 

Gently, you need to come back down to Earth, OP. 

[BaileyB]

46 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

It’s pretty rich that your husband is crucifying you for that while he left you for his own mistress.

Exactly. Why you haven’t told your hypocrite if a husband to shove off OP, I don’t understand. 

46 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

You have got your blinders on about all of this. You two don't know each other inside and out. You have never spent any extended length of time together for that to be possible. You have no idea if you'd get along once the daily routines set in, or if this "connection" is only existent because you're both lacking something in your personal lives.

You are focused on this new “connection” and the feelings that come from the attention of this man while ignoring the simple truth - this is a selfish man and entitled man with a serious character flaw. In much the same way your husband has done, he has put his own needs ahead of his wife and child. 

No, you don’t know each other as you have not spent an extended period of time together. You have not lived the rather mundane existence of life with him or endured the daily stresses together. If you had, it’s likely that he would be talking with another woman when you go to bed at night. 

Let’s be honest here, he’s not going to leave his wife and new baby. Sure, he’s looking for something to keep him occupied while his wife is otherwise distracted delivering and raising his child - but, it would be rather foolish to think that he’s going to leave his wife and child for a woman who he chats with at night while his wife is nursing and putting his child to bed. Please don’t romanticize this Sunny8 - there is nothing “meant to be” - just another cheater who is looking for a little extra attention while his wife is otherwise focused on raising his children. Not much to admire or respect about that. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[Bittersweetie]

OP, gently, I'm wondering if this affair with the MM and your feelings for him is a way you are avoiding facing and dealing with what happened with your H. Your affair seems to be a very unhealthy coping skill. I would agree with PP that in addition to talking to a lawyer, you also start talking to a counselor in order to start working through the events of the past couple of years and creating some new, healthier coping skills. And go no contact with your work MM...at this point in your life you don't want to jeopardize your job in any way. Good luck.

[stillafool]

The only good thing I can say about your cheating husband is he was honest that he was leaving you for another woman and did it.  Why you were still having sex with him instead of getting a divorce is beyond me.  You on the other hand seem to want your husband back but will not be honest with him about the full extent of your affair which included a lot of sex.  It is clear the OM was in need because his wife was pregnant and there you were and all he had to say was he found you attractive.  Now that his wife has given birth and has healed up, he's backing away from the affair because he no longer needs you and is now all of a sudden feeling guilty.  What you need to do is file for divorce, block the other man and just take care of your 3 kids and lay off men for a while.

Edited June 4, 2022 by stillafool

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

What am I doing and why do I feel this way?! 

I agree with Bittersweetie, I would kindly suggest that after the rejection of your husband’s affair and the stress of dealing with your marriage, the attention and distraction that this MM offers you must feel really good. From an outside perspective, it’s not hard to understand why you are drawn to this relationship. But consider this, the fact that your husband has cheated on you and you are dealing with the effect of this action on the future of your marriage makes you very vulnerable to another man - is it possible that he has taken advantage of your vulnerability? 

3 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

He’s asking how I am etc and said he still wants to message me now but I’ve said you’re busy, you’re in a bubble and as hard as it is not to be in contact I’m trying to respect what’s going on. He’s just said “Messages won't stop but yes, agreed I need to focus elsewhere for a short while. Thank you for the understanding”

Why is he not respecting your request to stop messaging? That doesn’t seem like a kind or caring thing to do - does it?

You can’t be friends with your affair partner. Women on this site have tried - it never works. It’s very difficult to establish a healthy boundary where there have been/continue to be strong feelings. This request is usually an attempt to either continue the attention/validation/emotional support the affair partner offers or  absolve some guilt/make oneself feel better about their indiscretions. Sometimes, it is simply and attempt to keep contact with the other person in order to keep options open…

It will be difficult for you to let this affair go and deal with the things that you need to deal with in your marriage/life if this MM continues to message you. The only way to move forward is to go no contact. He should respect your decision to do so. And, if he doesn’t, you will need to establish a firm boundary/block him.

I’m sorry, you have been through a terrible trauma and it’s not hard to understand why you would be drawn to another man who offers some comfort and validation. I think the concern here is that you have indeed chosen a very unhealthy coping strategy, one that is not going work long term, and you would be wise to get some counselling (which is sounds like you’ve started already) and find a different support. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[glows]

5 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

He’s said he realises we will go through some uncertainty initially but we still want to meet up the same and be just as close. But somehow we will have to try and get it back to the ‘friend’ zone even though we haven’t been in this since January. Being honest I know what we’ve been doing has been an affair all along - emotional/physical. But if we haven’t been able to stop so far or even acknowledge what it is, can we going forward? I cannot think of anything worse than cutting him out and he feels the same. 

You relied on him (MM) as support and a coping mechanism in the fall out of your marriage. What your H thinks doesn't matter as he's one to talk and the marriage is already over. You're both separated and he has no business knowing about your love life. Keep that separate and speak with your lawyer only.

It's absolutely a waste of time and very inappropriate to be swapping love stories and personal updates about your love life with your ex or soon to be ex-husband. Be proactive about the divorce and moving on with your life. 

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

No definitely not an open relationship. He is still with the OW, lives in his own place and we just aren’t talking because of my actions. Because he lied so much to me even after Dday we agreed no lies whatsoever. So when he confronted me whether something had happened with me and MM at the work event I couldn’t lie. But he doesn’t know the extent or that it’s continued, he just thinks it’s purely friendship and no sexual texts or physical intimacy, however he maintains it’s still an affair on the basis the MM still lies to his wife when we meet up. 
 

What am I doing and why do I feel this way?! 

Hmm. Hmm. Double standards are endemic in human affairs and your situation seems to really epitomize that. Particularly your husband, who seems to want to be with his OW but have you around as "Plan B" and you seem to have essentially agreed to this.

You as well seem to want your husband to come back to you but in the meantime are working on developing a connection with this MM. Neither you or your husband seem to actually be fully out the door.

What are you doing/why do you feel this way?  It seems you are bonding with the MM. You seem to be attempting to monkeybranch to the MM while still leaving the possibility of your husband returning open to you. The fact that he is married helps because:   a) it's "fun" because affairs for better or worse tend to be exciting and you were probably ready emotionally for a "new love" of some kind  b) the fact that you can't fully have him leaves open the possibility of your husband returning, c) your husband got jealous, showing that he still cares at some level, which is probably something you were unconsciously hoping might happen,  d) having the MM validates you as a woman, but since you can't have him fully it allows the situation with your husband to continue to play out, and  e) this whole thing "stirs the pot" which might result in your husband returning, partly out of jealousy or the prospect of losing you, and might result in you ending up with this MM if you don't get your husband back. A sort of "increase the chaos" move, which might improve your odds of getting someone (either husband or MM) and thus "winning" in the end, while still leaving open the possibility of it being your husband.

The fact that your husband left might have you believing there's a higher chance of your MM leaving his wife for you. The prevailing wisdom seems to be that the probability of this actually happening is quite low, perhaps 5% or less. Also workplace affairs (should it become physical) sometimes result in significant problems above and beyond the problems a "normal" affair can (potentially) bring (such as his family breaking up if the affair is dicovered).

I'm not sure what to tell you other than to perhaps lay the situation out for you (as I see it, at least). Many people prefer simplicity, rather than increased chaos, in their romantic lives, but you are you - perhaps this is something you can "run with". Perhaps a step back and perspective on the situation will help you decide what your next "move" should most logically be.

It seems to me that if you could have your rathers, you'd "win" your husband back. Whether you'd decide to stay together once he'd (hypothetically) returned might be another matter, but the "simple" thing to do would be to divorce and seek other single men, which you don't seem to be doing.

Edited June 4, 2022 by mark clemson

[Will am I]

You were in a place of deep hurt and found comfort in your affair. 

I sympathize with your situation. But I do think you should get your goals clear. Would you like to work on your marriage? Would you like to build a future with your AP? Or neither? 

If your AP is on the top of your list, what are his goals for his future?

It’s too easy to be driven by developing circumstances. For example, if AP’s wife finds out, she will probably kick him out. Does that mean you are automatically “convicted to each other”?

Breathe. Reflect.

[BaileyB]

40 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Would you like to work on your marriage?

How exactly does that happen when he has chosen another woman?

40 minutes ago, Will am I said:

Would you like to build a future with your AP?

Again, how exactly does that happen when he is married to another woman and they have just had a baby? 

I’m not saying this to be rude, please know that. My point being, let’s be realistic here. Rebuilding a marriage with a husband who has cheated and left to be with another woman is not a wise decision. And, fantasizing about the day her affair partner choses to leave his wife and child and choses to be with OP is not likely to result in a happy and successful relationship either. Even if he was to leave his wife, what are the chances that this is going to become a successful relationship for OP when it starts with the man cheating on his pregnant wife? 

40 minutes ago, Will am I said:

I do think you should get your goals clear.

Could not agree more. May I suggest Sunny8 that your first priority should be your own mental health and well-being. Going no contact with both of these men and seeking support (counselling, parents, friends) would be a good start! Without a doubt, your second priority should be your children. For me, this would mean filing for divorce to establish some independence and stability for myself and my littles… Note, neither your husband or your affair partner are on my list - except to put some distance between you such that you and your children can find your own happiness together. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[BrinnM]

First of all: You are not in a marriage any longer – the whole thing is just on paper, so there's no relationship with your husband whatsoever. The only thing there should be is a co-parenting relationship. Period. It was your husband who brought a mistress into the situation, so I do not for the life of me understand how he can make any demands in terms of whom you're dating, whom you are having sex with, where you eat, what you do. Nada. He is still with hos OW, and he wants to lecture you? What the heck is that even all about? Why are you even listening to his nonsense? Get a lawyer, get the divorce done. That's what you should focus on. He can go to therapy all he wants, chase skirt, get with another woman and yet another one – it's irrelevant. He decided to move out, move on, with somebody else and this means you're done. So done.

Second: The MM. You had a fling, you had sex, you got attached. Bad situation. The man was horny, he may even like you as a person, but he told you in no uncertain terms that this affair is over. He is currently dangling the friendship carrot in front of your face, probably in order to placate you. This is why: He just had a new baby. He doesn't want a divorce. He wants to keep his job. He cannot afford a scandal at work, nor does he want to risk his wife to find out. But he also says he wants this affair to be over. He just doesn't say it directly. 
Instead he says this: Messages won't stop but yes, agreed I need to focus elsewhere for a short while. Thank you for the understanding. (------> read between the lines)

[Wiseman2]

 

8 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

We have 3 kids age 4-10.

Do what is best for your and your children's well being. That is to divorce and only discuss the children with your estranged husband. Let the attorney send him the papers, communication etc.

You pursued this man while in a damaged, hurting place . That is why it's an awful choice. Think about it. Going from cheater to cheater can not possibly be in your best interest.

[Sunny8]

Thanks for all the replies.

I should know probably clear up that I don’t want my H back. Until Christmas I’d have said yes I absolutely did, but with everything that’s happened over the last 5/6 months I’ve realised what kind of person he is (manipulative being only 1 of the main issues) but also that I can be treated nicer than I was. I realise that’s nonsense given that I’m talking about how I’ve been treated so positively by the MM, given what he’s done to his wife. I’m also not saying I want MM to leave his family either to pursue anything with me - in my (messed up) head that would make me as bad as my H’s OW. 
 

Right now my H and I only discuss practical arrangements re the kids. We have a set schedule created in 6 week blocks, so it’s just everyday things which we need to discuss and we keep to a minimum. As I said H has told me he hates me and would be happy never seeing me again, which I try keep in the front of my mind when I think I want to be on friendly terms with him (for the kids). But he doesn’t seem to be capable because although he had an affair (which I drove him to because he wasn’t happy) that ended our marriage, my actions with the MM 10m after H left me for another woman have, according to my H, ruined any chance of our friendship or even amicable atmosphere. 
 

The MM situation, I’ve backed off but it’s killing me. I know that sounds pathetic because it’s been 1 day in earnest, but like a week since we were ‘normal’. Today we’ve exchanged messages over the course of 40 minutes earlier today. That’s it. We’ve both acknowledged things will change but we’re not sure how and he is still adamant he wants to still meet up once he’s able to again. I just don’t know how long that will be. It seems we both need each other’s company, rather than it being one sided and this is the way it’s always been. We were so determined it wouldn’t get physical in person again and thought we had mastered it after 6 weeks of succeeding, yet somehow we couldn’t stick with it. He said he can’t consider a time when we don’t talk like we do as it would be ‘beyond sh*t’ and he’s the one saying he wants to keep meeting once we’re able again. 
 

I know I’m probably setting myself up for further heartache but all I know is I have been doing what makes me happy. Seeing and speaking to MM makes me incredibly happy and smiling. Not just the attention and physical attraction side, but the laughs and silly ‘in jokes’ we have as well as the sensitive /personal things we share and chats about random everyday things. So selfishly, this is why I’ve done what I’ve done. 
 

im just having a pity party for myself currently given the pretty much no contact over the last 24h and if this is a sign of how hard doing NC properly would be, I want to avoid it at all costs because I’m miserable and feeling so sorry for myself not knowing how things will play out, on top of course, of the horrible atmosphere I have with my H on kids swapovers etc. 

 

I’m also very much not looking for another partner. I would quite happily be on my own and I was certainly not looking for anything, or pursuing anything. Which is why the developing friendship with the MM was such a shock and crept up that before we knew it, we’d created a whole heap of mess we never saw coming.  
 

I see a number of replies mention that I have been with MM as a coping strategy. This is interesting and I will discuss with my counsellor. All I know is that whatever feelings I have (which I don’t give a label to) are genuine, even though they may be based on affair fog/limerance. All I know is the drug metaphor (the affair is like a drug) is feeling extremely accurate (not that I’ve ever done drugs or had an addiction) but I can’t bear to think of going through more pain. I’d rather have the MM in my life as a friend if that’s all we can ever be, than not at all. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by Sunny8
Typos

[BaileyB]

59 minutes ago, Sunny8 said:

I’d rather have the MM in my life as a friend if that’s all we can ever be, than not at all.

You can’t be friends with the man though. You admit it yourself in this post - it’s too easy to find yourself sliding back… when boundaries have been crossed, it’s hard to then create and maintain a new boundary.

And that’s only the physical. The fact that you are texting another woman’s husband and using him for emotional support is very inappropriate. Let’s say you never have sex again, you may not be in a physical affair with the man but you are certainly in an emotional affair - and that’s really inappropriate. How would you feel if your husband (in a perfect world, you have a nice relationship and you are raising your children together) - how would you feel if he was texting another woman? If they were “friends” who used to sleep together? Friends who talked everyday excretory, without your knowledge and consent? Would you think that is acceptable before for your life partner? Probably not. 

So why are you doing it?

Kindly, what you need right now is a counsellor, a friend, a family member, a confident, an online forum  - not a married man. He can’t be your primary source of support during your divorce - that’s just not going to work and it’s very, very inappropriate. 

59 minutes ago, Sunny8 said:

I’m also not saying I want MM to leave his family either to pursue anything with me - in my (messed up) head that would make me as bad as my H’s OW. 

I hate to say it but, you are already there. He may not have left his marriage and family to be with you - but you have intruded where you do not belong and you have no intention to leave. From her perspective, it’s only semantics. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by BaileyB

[glows]

1 hour ago, Sunny8 said:

Thanks for all the replies.

I should know probably clear up that I don’t want my H back. Until Christmas I’d have said yes I absolutely did, but with everything that’s happened over the last 5/6 months I’ve realised what kind of person he is (manipulative being only 1 of the main issues) but also that I can be treated nicer than I was. I realise that’s nonsense given that I’m talking about how I’ve been treated so positively by the MM, given what he’s done to his wife. I’m also not saying I want MM to leave his family either to pursue anything with me - in my (messed up) head that would make me as bad as my H’s OW. 
 

Right now my H and I only discuss practical arrangements re the kids. We have a set schedule created in 6 week blocks, so it’s just everyday things which we need to discuss and we keep to a minimum. As I said H has told me he hates me and would be happy never seeing me again, which I try keep in the front of my mind when I think I want to be on friendly terms with him (for the kids). But he doesn’t seem to be capable because although he had an affair (which I drove him to because he wasn’t happy) that ended our marriage, my actions with the MM 10m after H left me for another woman have, according to my H, ruined any chance of our friendship or even amicable atmosphere. 
 

The MM situation, I’ve backed off but it’s killing me. I know that sounds pathetic because it’s been 1 day in earnest, but like a week since we were ‘normal’. Today we’ve exchanged messages over the course of 40 minutes earlier today. That’s it. We’ve both acknowledged things will change but we’re not sure how and he is still adamant he wants to still meet up once he’s able to again. I just don’t know how long that will be. It seems we both need each other’s company, rather than it being one sided and this is the way it’s always been. We were so determined it wouldn’t get physical in person again and thought we had mastered it after 6 weeks of succeeding, yet somehow we couldn’t stick with it. He said he can’t consider a time when we don’t talk like we do as it would be ‘beyond sh*t’ and he’s the one saying he wants to keep meeting once we’re able again. 
 

I know I’m probably setting myself up for further heartache but all I know is I have been doing what makes me happy. Seeing and speaking to MM makes me incredibly happy and smiling. Not just the attention and physical attraction side, but the laughs and silly ‘in jokes’ we have as well as the sensitive /personal things we share and chats about random everyday things. So selfishly, this is why I’ve done what I’ve done. 
 

im just having a pity party for myself currently given the pretty much no contact over the last 24h and if this is a sign of how hard doing NC properly would be, I want to avoid it at all costs because I’m miserable and feeling so sorry for myself not knowing how things will play out, on top of course, of the horrible atmosphere I have with my H on kids swapovers etc. 

 

I’m also very much not looking for another partner. I would quite happily be on my own and I was certainly not looking for anything, or pursuing anything. Which is why the developing friendship with the MM was such a shock and crept up that before we knew it, we’d created a whole heap of mess we never saw coming.  
 

I see a number of replies mention that I have been with MM as a coping strategy. This is interesting and I will discuss with my counsellor. All I know is that whatever feelings I have (which I don’t give a label to) are genuine, even though they may be based on affair fog/limerance. All I know is the drug metaphor (the affair is like a drug) is feeling extremely accurate (not that I’ve ever done drugs or had an addiction) but I can’t bear to think of going through more pain. I’d rather have the MM in my life as a friend if that’s all we can ever be, than not at all. 

I think it's appalling that your H has the gall to utter a single comment about the situation with the MM but it's also none of his business. There was too much sharing there between the two of you and glad to hear that that has stopped. I also hope you see your H for what he is, a hypocrite and someone smallminded enough to pass hateful commentary all the while having cheated on his wife (not ending the marriage sooner in order to pursue whatever he needs to pursue). I sincerely hope you divorce him sooner rather than later so that you are further removed from this degrading and negative way he treats you or views you. He is a bitter man with a monumental ego. Yes, do keep the talks minimal and only regarding the kids. If he even hints at passing another comment, change the topic and learn to move away from conversation like that. 

Once you're out from the shadows (legally, truly) from such a marriage, you may find yourself moving to another phase of your life where MM don't really belong or have no place. Wait and see. In the meantime you know that the MM is never actually yours to have no matter how pleasant and titillating your conversations or witty repartee. He goes home to his wife and he's devoted to her and their family. He may seek you out spontaneously and drop you just as fast when he's not available. 

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by glows

[mark clemson]

3 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

I’m also very much not looking for another partner. I would quite happily be on my own and I was certainly not looking for anything, or pursuing anything.

If you take reconciliation with your husband (and any interest in that on your part) out of the picture, then the above makes sense. You seem to be having a romantic "thing" (EA?) with someone who you can't actually have. This is "safe" (for you) in the sense that you don't have to broach the issue of what to do if/when you actually have a relationship with him. You can love him and be loved (to some extent) by him without ever having to actually BE with him.

Not sure how emotionally healthy and/or risky this might be for both of you, but it seems it "fits the bill" for you right now, since you aren't actually interested in a relationship.

It's possible that if you took the MM (who you seem to have really fallen for) out of the picture, your attitude towards new partners might change. Possibly.

[Sunny8]

5 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If you take reconciliation with your husband (and any interest in that on your part) out of the picture, then the above makes sense. You seem to be having a romantic "thing" (EA?) with someone who you can't actually have. This is "safe" (for you) in the sense that you don't have to broach the issue of what to do if/when you actually have a relationship with him. You can love him and be loved (to some extent) by him without ever having to actually BE with him.

Not sure how emotionally healthy and/or risky this might be for both of you, but it seems it "fits the bill" for you right now, since you aren't actually interested in a relationship.

It's possible that if you took the MM (who you seem to have really fallen for) out of the picture, your attitude towards new partners might change. Possibly.

There will be no reconciliation with my H. He says there was a chance before I did what I did with MM but now I buried any hopes of that. Another way of placing the blame. 

You could well be right re MM and it being ideal in that he’s not available so suits me. I’m certainly not on the lookout for anything. 
 

Re the MM, I know labels are pretty irrelevant, but I’m curious. Obviously last week when we ended up being physical again, I expect this would be a PA. But before this when we were able to resist the physical side but our conversations when we met and daily messages included sexual content, would this still be classed as an EA? I think he has been in denial that just because we haven’t done anything physical again (until last week), it was no longer an A. I expect things will have changed again so it’s pretty irrelevant but I’m just curious whether our behaviour has been an A throughout irrespective of PA or EA. 

[Will am I]

The writing reflects one thing more than anything. A deep hurt. And a desperate desire for comfort.

Reasons behind the hurt are obvious when we read the history of OP.

The problem is that the course of action to find comfort is only leading to more hurt. It’s good that you realize that yourself @Sunny8.

Maybe it’s time to broaden your mind a little bit. Comfort can come from other sources than men. It’s good that you have a therapist. I think you could use a solid, intimate friendship and a loving church community. 

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, Sunny8 said:

would this still be classed as an EA? I think he has been in denial that just because we haven’t done anything physical again (until last week), it was no longer an A. I expect things will have changed again so it’s pretty irrelevant but I’m just curious whether our behaviour has been an A throughout irrespective of PA or EA. 

I mean, there's no official manual outlining definitions. It's subjective and open to a lot of different interpretations. 

Which is why it doesn't really matter. It's not as though being emotional lends it any further legitimacy. 

9 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

I know I’m probably definitely setting myself up for further heartache

Fixed it for you. 

9 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

I’d rather have the MM in my life as a friend if that’s all we can ever be, than not at all. 

This is wishful thinking, Sunny. You won't be able to maintain a friendship with him. It will hurt you way too much. 

These things have a way of fizzling out (or coming to a crashing halt when someone exposes it), and you're going to be left with...what? I realize you can't see the forest for the trees right now, but this is going to bring so much more chaos and pain that you imagined.

And what are you going to do if his wife finds out, and he cuts you off cold turkey? Don't be fooled into thinking that can't happen. It can, and it does. You will almost surely be discarded without any hesitation. 

[Wiseman2]

You pursued a bad situation because you were in a bad place. It's that simple

If you were a divorced single parent, you probably would not have pursued this cheating, lying co-worker.

Get the divorce going asap. Be the plaintiff and get your ducks in a row.

Cease all contact with this man. Keep communication with your estranged husband strictly about children only.

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

Re the MM, I know labels are pretty irrelevant, but I’m curious. I think he has been in denial that just because we haven’t done anything physical again (until last week), it was no longer an A. I’m just curious whether our behaviour has been an A throughout irrespective of PA or EA.

I think you know the answer to this question, you are just not willing/ready to accept the the truth.

These are the mental gymnastics that people do when they are in affairs. They justify their decision by telling themselves - if we aren’t physical, it’s not an affair. In much the same way, you said above that this is not as bad as your husband’s affair partner/girlfriend because your affair partner hasn’t left his marriage to be with you. Neither is really true, but if one is not proud of their decisions or behavior, it becomes necessary to find a way to justify and make the decisions/behavior more acceptable.

6 hours ago, Sunny8 said:

You could well be right re MM and it being ideal in that he’s not available so suits me.

Kindly, I appreciate that this is your chosen coping strategy and as such, you are not really willing or capable of looking at this situation from any other position than your own but I’m going to encourage you to try - 

“Suits you” - how does your involvement with her husband “suit” his wife? What gives you the right to find your comfort with her husband - at the expense of his wife and his family? I ask only because I hope that someday when you are not so self involved and you are willing to really do some self reflection, you consider the question. Because when you do, the answer and the way forward will be pretty clear. When you are in a healthier place yourself, you likely won’t find this man or this relationship suits you at all…

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by BaileyB