Coffee Date

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hey I’m not really purposefully trying to be contrarian here. I agree with everything Elaine has said to a tee, except maybe the problem being that you don’t exude sex.  I mean...you don’t, and she may be right on that point and I may be wrong or even plain misinterpreting it, but I know from my own experience there have been a number of guys I’ve encountered ( including men who started as friends) that I had to fair bit of imagination into having sex with, but I still did it because I found them  attractive despite their’ asexual ‘ or ‘aromantic’ energy. Maybe even partly because of it. But mostly because they had other attributes that were attractive. I tend not to be attracted to men who I’d say “exude sexuality”, it’s not my type, and I don’t think I’m that unusual, either. I imagine it’s a little like men with women. Some guys prefer the girls who are super sexy and some find the more innocent type that leave  a lot to imagination sexier 
 

The reason I felt compelled to say this is because the thought of you putting on an act to exude sexuality is a bit worrying. That can be quite creepy/off putting and I know guys who do try to be sexy and it doesn’t match their vibe/who they actually are  and it’s... no. In fact  it is very creepy. The thing about it is that if you have attributes that woman find attractive you don’t really have to be overtly sexual, I don’t think. The women that friendzone you most likely aren’t friendzoning you because you act friendly. They’re friendzoning you because you don’t have the attributes or enough of the attributes they find attractive. I don’t know why you said no one has mentioned the specific things that would help in that area. From what I’ve read, many people, Elaine, myself just a few posts earlier in this thread, et al specified things you can do to be more attractive to women. The opinions differ slightly, but are generally in agreement.  it’s interesting you’re now saying the problem is no one has made specific suggestions when you spend  most of your posts  basically dismissing each suggestion with “I don’t want to do that because it isnt authentic”... 

 

Just imagine being wanted by nobody and you get the idea of my reality or being wanted by people who are very unattractive. How to fix this is a question I asked myself often until I stopped asking it and realized my attempts to appeal to people were fruitless but what I could do was be useful and that got me much greater "reward" so from wanting to sleep with her and getting nowhere I realized if I was helpful, kind, nice, loyal I might actually at least get to spend time around someone I do find attractive.

My day job is problem solving, getting the maximum often from the least. Its not like I have not thought about this problem and how to solve it but frankly I do not know how. The risk does not seem worth it to be honest. IF I had a pool of attractive people then I might be inclined to try but everything I am betting everything on one person which raises the stakes considerably. 

Do not worry   I seldom if ever put on any act, unless I need to try and do some selling in the commercial sense.

Must be honest I do find this conversation hurts but its also very true.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

By exuding sex I did not mean he needs to be super sexy or built like like Jason Mamoa.
Even shy guys can exude sex, it is something women pick up on, even if the guy is not beating on his chest or acting like a raging bull.
It can be subtle, it can be classy but everyone is well aware there is a real live man in the room instead of a platonic friend. 

Sure. How?

The more read this the more stupid I feel.

[SumGuy]

5 hours ago, Cookiesandough said:

I see, Elaine. I might see the distinction you are  making. I think I might have always called that as less uptight, more relaxed, fluid, natural, confident in themselves/their body than sexuality, but it might be the same thing. Sorry if I misunderstood 

I would agree with this as the better way to exude sex...it's not the gold chains and shirt unbuttoned to your navel nor constant crass references to sex.  At least in my case, I find if centered and feeling good in my body, like that after work out feeling, plus a chillness in you are not trying to impress her but getting to know her and being able to let your mind dwell on her sexual nature without being crass...make a connection through conversation, laughter, some flirting, and not being afraid to get close.  All in all a state where you are into her mind, body and soul, not just one of those...and want her to be into you the same.  Doesn't hurt if one dresses to accentuate one's physical pluses, getting her to think yum  .

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure. How?...

Just looking at you picture you seem in good shape, slim etc.  My view is more working on when you engage with women it sparks a fire or twinkle in your eye, that you genuinely enjoy the interplay...even the "filler".  It is not so much the topic, or the actual statements more than half the time, it is how one interacts, how one follows up, the humorous responses or observations one can make.   As crass as it sounds for me, her exuding sex...and not talking about in any regard wearing revealing clothing or being crass, but interested in me in an engaged way.  That excites and motivates me so the conversation is enjoyable over a broad range of topics.   On her end, i suspect, is someone she can talk to, you add in some flirtation so she also knows you can do more than talk,  if you can imagine her in a sexual way that should do it, but don't stare at her cleavage, etc....sure take a look, a glance, but focus on her eyes, on connecting.   The idea is you can appreciate a little cleavage, skin showing, etc. and it can be hard to resist, but it it not befuddling your mind or all you are interested in.

Think of your own value as well, you are connecting not just for her but for you, you may be a virgin but that has it's good points...you are certainly STD free...and if you don't have messed up ideas from porn you are going to not have preconceptions she needs to deal with...so she is free to train you/lead you...really no pressure, you are like a blank page.   Don't worry about your performance, it is going to be win-win for you...I believe women have very low expectations of male virgins...and are more than happy to guide you through multiple rounds.

As to why you are a virgin...you want connection before sleeping with someone...you have been socially awkward so have been your own worse enemy for many years... you often took the "easy" way out and focused on school and career...you've got that together...now older and a bit wiser you've been working to get out of that awkwardness, so here we are, "how are am I doing?". 

[ZA Dater]

23 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

Just looking at you picture you seem in good shape, slim etc.  My view is more working on when you engage with women it sparks a fire or twinkle in your eye, that you genuinely enjoy the interplay...even the "filler".  It is not so much the topic, or the actual statements more than half the time, it is how one interacts, how one follows up, the humorous responses or observations one can make.   As crass as it sounds for me, her exuding sex...and not talking about in any regard wearing revealing clothing or being crass, but interested in me in an engaged way.  That excites and motivates me so the conversation is enjoyable over a broad range of topics.   On her end, i suspect, is someone she can talk to, you add in some flirtation so she also knows you can do more than talk,  if you can imagine her in a sexual way that should do it, but don't stare at her cleavage, etc....sure take a look, a glance, but focus on her eyes, on connecting.   The idea is you can appreciate a little cleavage, skin showing, etc. and it can be hard to resist, but it it not befuddling your mind or all you are interested in.

Think of your own value as well, you are connecting not just for her but for you, you may be a virgin but that has it's good points...you are certainly STD free...and if you don't have messed up ideas from porn you are going to not have preconceptions she needs to deal with...so she is free to train you/lead you...really no pressure, you are like a blank page.   Don't worry about your performance, it is going to be win-win for you...I believe women have very low expectations of male virgins...and are more than happy to guide you through multiple rounds.

As to why you are a virgin...you want connection before sleeping with someone...you have been socially awkward so have been your own worse enemy for many years... you often took the "easy" way out and focused on school and career...you've got that together...now older and a bit wiser you've been working to get out of that awkwardness, so here we are, "how are am I doing?". 

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I agree completely in terms of the bold and I feel the same its just very difficult to find that and with me that takes time and if they are not interested then I am not motivated to engage. At least based on this part I am not too abnormal. This is the part that I call "wow". I cant really do the flirtation part so I then substitute that was a lot of kindness a lot of interest in them as people.

I very much doubt many want to train and lead, I used to believe in what you say above but my experience has ever seemed to actually align with that and likewise being socially awkward is not really a selling point of an excuse that most will accept. 

I wanted to sleep with the statuesque model, it was less about what she looked like (she is really pretty) but how she engaged me in the bold part and I felt comfortable around her, everyone wants to know what wow for me is and you have in the above described it perfectly! 

As for the last paragraph I wish people really did believe that because I have been trying like that for years.

[elaine567]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

. I cant really do the flirtation part so I then substitute that was a lot of kindness a lot of interest in them as people.

What makes you think that is in any way equivalent?
Its not and showing "interest" is a given, it is not in any way a substitute for showing romantic interest via flirting.

23 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

its just very difficult to find that and with me that takes time and if they are not interested then I am not motivated to engage

Ok but with more "oomph" from you, you would find more would be interested...
You don't flirt, so you don't spark interest. A guy who is not flirting on any level, shows her he is not interested in dating her, she puts him straight into the friendzone or she may even just zone out completely.

[SumGuy]

37 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated. I agree completely in terms of the bold and I feel the same its just very difficult to find that and with me that takes time and if they are not interested then I am not motivated to engage. At least based on this part I am not too abnormal. This is the part that I call "wow". I cant really do the flirtation part so I then substitute that was a lot of kindness a lot of interest in them as people.

You need to be motivated to engage from the get go, not only after she magically becomes enamored with you.   You are focusing more on being reactive instead of proactive.

Of course you are going to find that very difficult to find if you  only engage after they do.  Unless she asked you out and pursued you.  You are skipping the most important part of learning to be engage with her from the get go.

Quote

I very much doubt many want to train and lead, I used to believe in what you say above but my experience has ever seemed to actually align with that and likewise being socially awkward is not really a selling point of an excuse that most will accept. 

Well you are only a virgin once, and I can only go by what women I know say. 

Socially awkward is not a selling point, it is part of the explanation why you are a virgin at your age...if you even need to get into that.  The much more important part of it is yourself awareness of it and working on reducing it.  If you genuinely are it is a positive.  I think you really underestimate women.

Being able to acknowledge such things and work on them without being a sad sack about it is strength.   Being often wrong but never in doubt is not a strength...it's a con.

Frankly if you can hold off mentioning your virginity until all naked probably works best.  That is about the only "i need to warn you about something before sex" statement that will be met with a positive response.

Quote

I wanted to sleep with the statuesque model, it was less about what she looked like (she is really pretty) but how she engaged me in the bold part and I felt comfortable around her, everyone wants to know what wow for me is and you have in the above described it perfectly! 

She engaged you because she was rooting for you.  I think you have an idea of beautiful women who could have any stereotypical man that is all wrong, like completely.  Yes there are gold diggers and women who just want men to rock them in bed...at all beauty levels...but these models live in a world of abundance.  If they just wanted sex or money they wouldn't be dating you (unless you seem to be very rich), they don't even really need to date. 

It is good you know what wow is for you, a lot don't, but you also need to "wow" her.  And that is not by being some peacock, it is connecting to her, to the model who wants people to see her and not just her face, or body.  Realize her struggle, her struggle is finding something real, not just some man who will and can say anything to get her in bed.

Quote

As for the last paragraph I wish people really did believe that because I have been trying like that for years.

Of course people believe accept that if it is true and they need an explanation.  Someone who likes you (and is not a nut) is not going to interrogate you about this, they just may be curious...to ensure no red flags.  They will be perfectly aware you could be lying through your teeth, but if it is true that will show through.

It is not having problems that is the problem, it is a lack of self awareness of them and evidence you are working on them and fixing them that is a problem.  

As to virginity at your age...does this apply?

"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun..."

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by SumGuy

[elaine567]

12 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

it is connecting to her, to the model who wants people to see her and not just her face, or body.  Realize her struggle, her struggle is finding something real, not just some man who will and can say anything to get her in bed

He did a pretty good job at that, but that is where it ended, and she went off looking for a guy to actually date and sleep with. 

[Weezy1973]

The problem isn’t his lack of sex appeal. He is attracting people, just not people he’s attracted to. The problem is he doesn’t want to risk rejection, so he “needs” a clear cut go ahead and he’s very unlikely to get that from the women he’s attracted to.
 

Without taking risk @ZA Dater you’re definitely not going to get anywhere. Not sure what you do in the world of finance, but if you know anything about investing, you know you need to take some risk to get a decent return, or even just to keep up with inflation. 

 

Risk is inherent in the world of love and relationships. If you’re dead set against taking any risk, you’ll never succeed. It’s your fear of rejection you need to overcome. I’ll again suggest therapy.

[introverted1]

1 hour ago, SumGuy said:

You need to be motivated to engage from the get go, not only after she magically becomes enamored with you.   You are focusing more on being reactive instead of proactive.

Of course you are going to find that very difficult to find if you  only engage after they do.  Unless she asked you out and pursued you.  You are skipping the most important part of learning to be engage with her from the get go.

Well you are only a virgin once, and I can only go by what women I know say. 

Socially awkward is not a selling point, it is part of the explanation why you are a virgin at your age...if you even need to get into that.  The much more important part of it is yourself awareness of it and working on reducing it.  If you genuinely are it is a positive.  I think you really underestimate women.

Being able to acknowledge such things and work on them without being a sad sack about it is strength.   Being often wrong but never in doubt is not a strength...it's a con.

Frankly if you can hold off mentioning your virginity until all naked probably works best.  That is about the only "i need to warn you about something before sex" statement that will be met with a positive response.

She engaged you because she was rooting for you.  I think you have an idea of beautiful women who could have any stereotypical man that is all wrong, like completely.  Yes there are gold diggers and women who just want men to rock them in bed...at all beauty levels...but these models live in a world of abundance.  If they just wanted sex or money they wouldn't be dating you (unless you seem to be very rich), they don't even really need to date. 

It is good you know what wow is for you, a lot don't, but you also need to "wow" her.  And that is not by being some peacock, it is connecting to her, to the model who wants people to see her and not just her face, or body.  Realize her struggle, her struggle is finding something real, not just some man who will and can say anything to get her in bed.

Of course people believe accept that if it is true and they need an explanation.  Someone who likes you (and is not a nut) is not going to interrogate you about this, they just may be curious...to ensure no red flags.  They will be perfectly aware you could be lying through your teeth, but if it is true that will show through.

It is not having problems that is the problem, it is a lack of self awareness of them and evidence you are working on them and fixing them that is a problem.  

As to virginity at your age...does this apply?

"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun..."

 

All of this, @ZA Dater, and especially the bits I bolded. Your virginity is not the problem.  Learning to engage is where you should focus. 

@SumGuyAwesome song, awesome album.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, SumGuy said:

You need to be motivated to engage from the get go, not only after she magically becomes enamored with you.   You are focusing more on being reactive instead of proactive.

Of course you are going to find that very difficult to find if you  only engage after they do.  Unless she asked you out and pursued you.  You are skipping the most important part of learning to be engage with her from the get go.

Well you are only a virgin once, and I can only go by what women I know say. 

Socially awkward is not a selling point, it is part of the explanation why you are a virgin at your age...if you even need to get into that.  The much more important part of it is yourself awareness of it and working on reducing it.  If you genuinely are it is a positive.  I think you really underestimate women.

Being able to acknowledge such things and work on them without being a sad sack about it is strength.   Being often wrong but never in doubt is not a strength...it's a con.

Frankly if you can hold off mentioning your virginity until all naked probably works best.  That is about the only "i need to warn you about something before sex" statement that will be met with a positive response.

She engaged you because she was rooting for you.  I think you have an idea of beautiful women who could have any stereotypical man that is all wrong, like completely.  Yes there are gold diggers and women who just want men to rock them in bed...at all beauty levels...but these models live in a world of abundance.  If they just wanted sex or money they wouldn't be dating you (unless you seem to be very rich), they don't even really need to date. 

It is good you know what wow is for you, a lot don't, but you also need to "wow" her.  And that is not by being some peacock, it is connecting to her, to the model who wants people to see her and not just her face, or body.  Realize her struggle, her struggle is finding something real, not just some man who will and can say anything to get her in bed.

Of course people believe accept that if it is true and they need an explanation.  Someone who likes you (and is not a nut) is not going to interrogate you about this, they just may be curious...to ensure no red flags.  They will be perfectly aware you could be lying through your teeth, but if it is true that will show through.

It is not having problems that is the problem, it is a lack of self awareness of them and evidence you are working on them and fixing them that is a problem.  

As to virginity at your age...does this apply?

"Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your hometown
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine, staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun..."

 

There is a mega amount of value in the above, thank you. The bold is exactly what I did from the outset, only to be comprehensively beaten. At least in theory I did something right but it also has to be said she engaged with me from the off which helped. It is very, very difficult for me to engage and I get no engagement back, almost ALL the dates I have been on have been like that, sure there were some decent ones like the one where I tried to kiss her but that was a total flop, I often just leave these dates feeling completely defeated because not matter how hard I try there is just nothing. 

The problem is nobody likes me, why would they when they can go on an app and find someone who is going to have an A game, not some guy who has no clue what he is doing.

I really believed I would be proven wrong here but again it was more of the same like it every single time, you try pick yourself up over and over again, it becomes more and more difficult, at least with her I really got a lot of what I actually hoped to find one day.

Socially awkward, they just move on to someone who is not, its really simple, why try with me when there are tons of more appealing guys without my issues. Sure I can reduce it but its only happens with familiarity, which is why virtually living with her for while meant this disappeared very quickly.

I tried on this date to limit the awkwardness and mostly succeeded barring one of two irritating gaffs which really irritated me. 

It is so so hard to find any sort of positive and any sort of hope, really it is. Each passing year it becomes harder and harder and to be honest I have run out of both, I was in a very, very bad space when I met her in December and her story of adversity and overcoming a really terrible situation inspired me, sitting talking to someone actually have them take an interest, seemingly enjoy spending time with me was great, completely new to me and better than I imagined. She deserves all the happiness in the world because to go through what she did and smile and remain positive is extraordinary. 

For the first time with anyone I did not hold back feelings, I actually told her I think she is amazing, which is a step for me because I generally never convey how I feel about most things.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

He did a pretty good job at that, but that is where it ended, and she went off looking for a guy to actually date and sleep with. 

That and her friends painted said guy as the most remarkable guy one earth, my apparently wonderful friend did the exact opposite with me it would seem with the whole "you must be her friend" and he did it again yesterday when the topic came up in conversation. When you friends think nothing of you its another kick in the face. 

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Risk is inherent in the world of love and relationships. If you’re dead set against taking any risk, you’ll never succeed. It’s your fear of rejection you need to overcome. I’ll again suggest therapy.

You find me attractive people I like and I'll take that risk all day but I simply do not have those people. I am not going to risk on people I feel no attraction towards.

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

What makes you think that is in any way equivalent?
Its not and showing "interest" is a given, it is not in any way a substitute for showing romantic interest via flirting.

Ok but with more "oomph" from you, you would find more would be interested...
You don't flirt, so you don't spark interest. A guy who is not flirting on any level, shows her he is not interested in dating her, she puts him straight into the friendzone or she may even just zone out completely.

Its about all I have to offer. They would not be interested because I am simply not attractive, the cat fish idea proved that beyond any reasonable level of doubt. I do not know how to flirt, my mind does not work in that way at all, I show interest by kindness and taking an interest in someone, that is all I can do. Which will never be enough and is not ever enough.

[introverted1]

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You find me attractive people I like and I'll take that risk all day but I simply do not have those people. I am not going to risk on people I feel no attraction towards.

This is feeding your problem.  You need practice so, yes, you need to take risks even with the people you don't find attractive because this is the only way you'll be successful when you meet someone you are attracted to.

I was just talking to a friend about this...  I am not naturally an extroverted person (I know, the username had you fooled), so I pretty much force myself to talk to people wherever I go.  The result is that I am comfortable talking to strangers, so when I am on dates (or job interviews), I do really well because I am relaxed and authentic.  That's the goal for you -- to get to where you can be relaxed and authentic with PEOPLE in general.  Then, when you are with a woman you are interested in, you will have the foundation to be relaxed and authentic with her, too. And that's what leads to sexual energy, the presentation of confidence and self-assurance.

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

This is feeding your problem.  You need practice so, yes, you need to take risks even with the people you don't find attractive because this is the only way you'll be successful when you meet someone you are attracted to.

I was just talking to a friend about this...  I am not naturally an extroverted person (I know, the username had you fooled), so I pretty much force myself to talk to people wherever I go.  The result is that I am comfortable talking to strangers, so when I am on dates (or job interviews), I do really well because I am relaxed and authentic.  That's the goal for you -- to get to where you can be relaxed and authentic with PEOPLE in general.  Then, when you are with a woman you are interested in, you will have the foundation to be relaxed and authentic with her, too. And that's what leads to sexual energy, the presentation of confidence and self-assurance.

Sorry but that to me is illogical and as has happened to me once before I find then someone is besotted with me, throwing themselves at me and then what? Its hardly fair on that person to use them like that and I wont do this. One area I have improved vastly is is the relaxed and authentic, dates do not make me nervous at all, they do not really excite me either but that is besides the point, I can sit there and be very relaxed and authentic, chat to her like I would chat to anyone else really. Especially if I get no engagement back which is the norm really. 

Leading people on does not interest me because I know how terrible it is to experience that and then get kicked in the face. My own experiences have made me very aware of the feelings of others and if I can I'd prefer not to do to others what has been done to me.

[introverted1]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Sorry but that to me is illogical and as has happened to me once before I find then someone is besotted with me, throwing themselves at me and then what? Its hardly fair on that person to use them like that and I wont do this. One area I have improved vastly is is the relaxed and authentic, dates do not make me nervous at all, they do not really excite me either but that is besides the point, I can sit there and be very relaxed and authentic, chat to her like I would chat to anyone else really. Especially if I get no engagement back which is the norm really. 

Leading people on does not interest me because I know how terrible it is to experience that and then get kicked in the face. My own experiences have made me very aware of the feelings of others and if I can I'd prefer not to do to others what has been done to me.

I'm not suggesting that you lead on anyone who you are not genuinely interested in.  That is not ethical, imo.  What I am suggesting is that you can use dates and everyday encounters to practice making connections via fun/relaxed conversation/banter. 

[Weezy1973]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You find me attractive people I like and I'll take that risk all day but I simply do not have those people. I am not going to risk on people I feel no attraction towards.

Not true. You just were in a position with the widow. Wouldn’t take the risk. Not that it guarantees success of course. 

[ZA Dater]

12 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Not true. You just were in a position with the widow. Wouldn’t take the risk. Not that it guarantees success of course. 

I was specifically told to just be her friend...by a friend of mine. Poor judgement probably but when I did sort of try the cold shoulder was the result so have nothing or a nice friend, I'll have the latter thanks.

Oh one time in 20 odd years, hardly a common occurrence I'd say.

[dramafreezone]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

You find me attractive people I like and I'll take that risk all day but I simply do not have those people. I am not going to risk on people I feel no attraction towards.

Yes, if you were training military, you would say let's wait until we get into the warzone until we start preparing.

This is part of the reason why you aren't competitive, you don't even think diligent preparation is important.

[mark clemson]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure. How?

Essentially body language - confident mannerisms. No slumped shoulders, a certain "energy" in how you walk, how you act. Strong but also unhurried OR decisive and purposeful IF the context calls for it. It's acting in a very real way. Some women will pick up on this more than others. A certain % will pick up on it VERY strongly.

It sounds silly, but pretend you are a tiger or psychologically project that you are completely powerful in the situation. Let your walk, mannerisms, behaviors (to a certain extent) reflect this extremely confident mindset. Don't take it TOO far as there can be a fine line between appearing extremely self-assured and appearing a bit ridiculous.

There is also how you interact socially with others, which is important as well.

It's easier said than done. But you can experiment with your body language in public places, e.g. a supermarket, and see what tends to draw some eyes and smiles your way.

Also remember that just because they find you attractive doesn't mean they'll instantly jump your bones. Women like to "make sure". But "whew, he's attractive" is likely to at least be a good starting point.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Yes, if you were training military, you would say let's wait until we get into the warzone until we start preparing.

This is part of the reason why you aren't competitive, you don't even think diligent preparation is important.

Just not that interested in preparing with people I do not find either interesting or attractive.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Essentially body language - confident mannerisms. No slumped shoulders, a certain "energy" in how you walk, how you act. Strong but also unhurried OR decisive and purposeful IF the context calls for it. It's acting in a very real way. Some women will pick up on this more than others. A certain % will pick up on it VERY strongly.

It sounds silly, but pretend you are a tiger or psychologically project that you are completely powerful in the situation. Let your walk, mannerisms, behaviors (to a certain extent) reflect this extremely confident mindset. Don't take it TOO far as there can be a fine line between appearing extremely self-assured and appearing a bit ridiculous.

There is also how you interact socially with others, which is important as well.

It's easier said than done. But you can experiment with your body language in public places, e.g. a supermarket, and see what tends to draw some eyes and smiles your way.

Also remember that just because they find you attractive doesn't mean they'll instantly jump your bones. Women like to "make sure". But "whew, he's attractive" is likely to at least be a good starting point.

Well yeah that is a given. My approach is very quiet calm, relaxed, I try leave intense at the office but do fail at this fairly often.  Having a confident mindset....very, very difficult. 

 

[chillii]

14 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Essentially body language - confident mannerisms. No slumped shoulders, a certain "energy" in how you walk, how you act. Strong but also unhurried OR decisive and purposeful IF the context calls for it. It's acting in a very real way. Some women will pick up on this more than others. A certain % will pick up on it VERY strongly.

It sounds silly, but pretend you are a tiger or psychologically project that you are completely powerful in the situation. Let your walk, mannerisms, behaviors (to a certain extent) reflect this extremely confident mindset. Don't take it TOO far as there can be a fine line between appearing extremely self-assured and appearing a bit ridiculous.

There is also how you interact socially with others, which is important as well.

It's easier said than done. But you can experiment with your body language in public places, e.g. a supermarket, and see what tends to draw some eyes and smiles your way.

Also remember that just because they find you attractive doesn't mean they'll instantly jump your bones. Women like to "make sure". But "whew, he's attractive" is likely to at least be a good starting point.

 

Sorry buddy but this ones crackin me up , l can just see all the single guys out there getting this straight of their YT gurus and making total idiots out of themselves .

 

 

 

[Weezy1973]

16 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Oh one time in 20 odd years, hardly a common occurrence I'd say.

If this is true, none of the things you’ve talked about even matter. The problem is you don’t find practically any women attractive.