Coffee Date

[Interstellar]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years.

Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped  and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean.

My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common,  some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare.

And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

 

Might as well ask her if she has a twin sister or single friends who’s available.

I work in sales, you gotta be able to think on your feet.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Interstellar

[BaileyB]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

Walk away. 

She was being kind. She does not see you as a romantic partner. That’s fine. 

She didn’t offer to be your “friend” in the - I want to have long and emotional talks with you and spend the weekend together way. So, just let it go...

[ZA Dater]

19 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Walk away. 

She was being kind. She does not see you as a romantic partner. That’s fine. 

She didn’t offer to be your “friend” in the - I want to have long and emotional talks with you and spend the weekend together way. So, just let it go...

Yip will go with this. I expected this outcome so nothing been gained or lost besides the time spent. 

What was nice was the conversation but then again most models converse well because they need to be able to. 

I'll walk away because there is a lot of wisdom to the advice here.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, norealusername said:

It's definitely a polite rejection. She probably doesn't actually want to be friends ....but if she does, don't do it. You'll never get anywhere beyond friends.

In some respects I'd have been tempted but I know how this goes and it's never been good for me. It seems she has lots of guy friends too.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Blind-Sided said:

Walk away.  It was a date... she didn't find you to her liking.

I have several female friends... and NONE of them started with a date. (Expectations of something more)  I would say it's really hard or even impossible to do.  A female friend starts as a co-worker, class mate, or friend-of-a-friend. (With the expectations of being a friend from the start)

Thanks for this, it's going onto my list of things I read each day. It's going to be interesting to debate this with a friend of mine who keeps telling me to be friends with people who reject me. I believe you are quite correct and always these fake friendships are dead in the water before they even start.

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Of course it is not healthy.
This recent debacle with the IG widow did you no favours whatsoever.
She hoovered up what she could get and left you bereft and upset.
You may try to spin it, but she used you and unceremoniously dumped you when you were no good to her any longer...

The debacle there actually turned out a lot worse than that, I took a major loss on that one over above what I mentioned here. Totally and completely pigeon holed, she has spent the last two weeks with the other guy. 

I learnt a lot and every lesson makes me want to close up more and less inclined to date.

So this one just puts further nails in the coffin.

[elaine567]

You are delving in some pretty murky waters.
Yes superficially they look shiny and pretty but these "models" and people who make money from "alternative" therapies,  are  often shallow and are out for what they can get.
It is a tough game and they have not become successful by actually being kind, thoughtful and compassionate.
It is often an act.
You think you are dealing with bunny rabbits, but these are bunny rabbits with very sharp teeth.

I am glad you are going to  stop the "friendship" tack as a means to get close to these unobtainable, shallow women.
They have essentially exploited you.
 

[ZA Dater]

53 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You are delving in some pretty murky waters.
Yes superficially they look shiny and pretty but these "models" and people who make money from "alternative" therapies,  are  often shallow and are out for what they can get.
It is a tough game and they have not become successful by actually being kind, thoughtful and compassionate.
It is often an act.
You think you are dealing with bunny rabbits, but these are bunny rabbits with very sharp teeth.

I am glad you are going to  stop the "friendship" tack as a means to get close to these unobtainable, shallow women.
They have essentially exploited you.
 

My thought process has changed somewhat after this. I think everyone is really out for what they can get, no harm there really and I guess I can respect this if this is done transparently, which is seldom the case.

Again I think the nature of the beast where I am most people are shallow to various degrees, myself included so its just time to accept this but also, my closest confidant, its time to accept the dating advice he gives me is fundamentally flawed from a base of someone who actually complains about dating but has a new better looking date every other week. The viewpoint is different, he is adamant the route I should go is friendship but @Blind-Sidedhas really summed up the situation very well. He himself has never really worked anything from a friendship though he has had some friends half heartedly set him up but he is a catch so there is no reason why they would not want someone to experience a jet set lifestyle with him.

I also question the sort of value these friendships he suggests can possibly give me and when I think back all that has happened is I get kicked by watching other guys succeed with people I like but I am told to befriend, again how healthy this is, that is debatable. When I think about it I get rejected once, then try befriend and then get kicked in the face again when she goes off with some other guy.

This date I did manage to sort of tick off a few things on the list which I did do better but mostly because the person in front of me was engaging with me which made things a lot easier. 

Re engaging my thought process, sure I'd want to sleep with someone sometime but I just look at the hundreds of hoops to jump through and wonder if it is really even worth it.

 

[elaine567]

41 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

When I think about it I get rejected once, then try befriend and then get kicked in the face again when she goes off with some other guy.

Why would a girl who has rejected you, and has accepted you as a friend, change her mind and want to date you?
That just doesn't happen.
The "dreaded" friendzone is "dreaded" for a good reason,
Once in the friendzone, you stay there. Whilst being friends with you, she is still looking elsewhere for a bf
You and non-rejected men are in two separate groups in her mind.
You are her friend and they are potential bfs.
You, once rejected, are nowhere, you are out of the running, no matter how friendly she is with you.
She may think you are funny, clever, great company, she may love spending time with you, but all that is immaterial if she doesn't find you sexually attractive enough to sleep with you
After the rejection decision, she will place you firmly in the "platonic" box.
The operative word is actually "rejected", once someone rejects you that is the end, you don't recover from that.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Why would a girl who has rejected you, and has accepted you as a friend, change her mind and want to date you?
That just doesn't happen.
The "dreaded" friendzone is "dreaded" for a good reason,
Once in the friendzone, you stay there. Whilst being friends with you, she is still looking elsewhere for a bf
You and non-rejected men are in two separate groups in her mind.
You are her friend and they are potential bfs.
You, once rejected, are nowhere, you are out of the running, no matter how friendly she is with you.
She may think you are funny, clever, great company, she may love spending time with you, but all that is immaterial if she doesn't find you sexually attractive enough to sleep with you
After the rejection decision, she will place you firmly in the "platonic" box.
The operative word is actually "rejected", once someone rejects you that is the end, you don't recover from that.

Exactly, its simply no worth being "friends" with them after they have rejected, I used to think there might be some value in this but there really is not. Its different I think if you work with the person like I do with K, then there is a working relationship.

I never used to buy into the "once rejected" always rejected view of things but I concede you are right, I know some people who have managed to overcome this but it was MASSIVELY difficult and they were really on the top of their game to be able to do this.

The choice I have is open myself up to dating or choose not to. Its a debate I ponder daily, yes I loved spending time with A and her baby because that was everything I actually aspire to but I concede I wont ever get that but it was still good to experience that. Like this lady, it was a good coffee date with someone interesting and who actually complimented me, which is exceedingly rare. Another good experience of sorts I suppose.

You put it very well above, there is no desire to be anything more than friends and honestly barring one very drunk lady I suspect most do not find me attractive in that way. Just the reality of life, I am trying to be easier on myself and let a lot more of this go. 

One thing I cannot fathom though, lets say you arrive in the platonic box, she starts dating other guys, does she not realize how that makes the friend feel?

Like K I will always have fond memories of A, both made my life better, both gave me experiences I wanted to have and I thought I might never experience and both were really nice to me, I cant hold the eventual outcome against them.

[elaine567]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

One thing I cannot fathom though, lets say you arrive in the platonic box, she starts dating other guys, does she not realize how that makes the friend feel?

She  does not consider the friend,  as once he is rejected his romantic feelings no longer matter.
As soon as he decides to stick around as a friend, then it is assumed he is OK with her seeing others, just like any other friend would be..
It is then up to him to excuse himself from the situation if he is getting hurt or sore. He is not her responsibility.
 

[elaine567]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

honestly barring one very drunk lady I suspect most do not find me attractive in that way.

I guess that is because you are  not projecting a sexy vibe.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

I guess that is because you are  not projecting a sexy vibe.

I am just not sexy. Instead of pretending I am I might as well just admit I am not. I can wear whatever clothes I like it makes no difference whatsoever because its not just a look, its a personality and yes its flirting.

[cleverusername]

I don't have sex with my "friends". Good call, next.

[ZA Dater]

22 minutes ago, cleverusername said:

I don't have sex with my "friends". Good call, next.

Which I guess begs the question what should I look for.....

[BaileyB]

6 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which I guess begs the question what should I look for.....

You have another thread that discusses this at length. Just saying...

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

You have another thread that discusses this at length. Just saying...

This latest issue has made me realize that I am probably wasting my time trying to date, its a monumental waste of time when I think what I have actually managed to accomplish in 20 odd years.

At least this forum has helped me tremendously to banish an idea that one can get from the friend zone to the bf zone. I genuinely believed that it was possible, well because everyone around me told me it was the way to go but what I really think is they all know how hopeless the whole idea is for me its a case of "well shame be his friend he has nobody". 

Cut my losses and maybe try change my moral issue with paying.

[smackie9]

She agreed to a date because there was something there she liked. She obviously a person that doesn't think of herself as someone that needs to be up on a pedestal. You gave it a shot, good for you for taking the risk.

As for going forward, ditch her friendship branch, and go out on as many dates as you can with other women. Tip: stop picking things apart and analyzing everything and yourself...this can give one a negative attitude, and a feeling of hopelessness. let it roll off your back, and ignore those thoughts of disappointment.

[Miss Peach]

In my perspective I don't have a strong type physically and really need more of a connection/chemistry which I can't gauge on OLD. I've heard this from other women too though I feel I may be a bit more extreme on it. My guess is she thought you had potential so went on the coffee date but either you hit on a deal breaker for her or there just wasn't enough chemistry for a date.

 

The way I look at the world there has to be a much larger overlap in values, chemistry, etc. for a relationship than a friendship. So I truly would rather have a lot of these people as friends but they aren't right for a relationship. But to be honest a lot of women use it as a way to let a decent guy down gently.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, smackie9 said:

She agreed to a date because there was something there she liked. She obviously a person that doesn't think of herself as someone that needs to be up on a pedestal. You gave it a shot, good for you for taking the risk.

As for going forward, ditch her friendship branch, and go out on as many dates as you can with other women. Tip: stop picking things apart and analyzing everything and yourself...this can give one a negative attitude, and a feeling of hopelessness. let it roll off your back, and ignore those thoughts of disappointment.

You are right I'll cut my losses here, must be honest I feel nothing at all. If anything being totally hopeless all the time means I never have any expectations and in reality my time would have been better spent elsewhere.

[dramafreezone]

22 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years.

Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped  and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean.

My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common,  some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare.

And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

 

Why don't you take something positive out of this?  This attractive woman went out with you, so you likely met her minimum attraction level.  That means if all went well she could see herself having sex with you.

That means you can't use this idea that you need to be some chiseled statue-esque guy to attract women.  You're good enough, you have to work on raising her attraction level, and that takes a very specific set of skills that are severely underdeveloped in you right now.

[Cookiesandough]

23 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years.

Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped  and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean.

My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common,  some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare.

And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

 

It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy if I’ve ever seen one. Unless youre cat fishing, if you were physically attractive enough to get matched and get the coffee date it’s not necessarily your physical attractiveness, right? It’s something else that didn’t make the cut. Bc yea her text was a soft rejection. Try working on some other thing,  otherwise it’ll probably just continue to be a forgone conclusion, hnlsss you get really “lucky”

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Cookiesandough

[IntBrowser]

So what if someone wants to go out as friends but 

 

never mentions other guys

always asked how my day or week was

what time will I be available to talk

 

Does that sound platonic?

[Cookiesandough]

30 minutes ago, IntBrowser said:

So what if someone wants to go out as friends but 

 

never mentions other guys

always asked how my day or week was

what time will I be available to talk

 

Does that sound platonic?

Yea it sounds platonic to me . 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said:

It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy if I’ve ever seen one. Unless youre cat fishing, if you were physically attractive enough to get matched and get the coffee date it’s not necessarily your physical attractiveness, right? It’s something else that didn’t make the cut. Bc yea her text was a soft rejection. Try working on some other thing,  otherwise it’ll probably just continue to be a forgone conclusion, hnlsss you get really “lucky”

 

This was very unusual to get matched with her, she was definitely not the norm for me when it comes to matches. Far from it actually. I just went along, keen to try out some of what people here have been encouraging me to do, no expectations from my part because honestly I knew what would happen. For me reading here its become more and more apparent to me that maybe you cant just go and be yourself, you need to try maybe present something else, I went along asked questions, told stories of experiences I had, tried to get her to laugh, was relaxed but you know its like the lottery, you maybe get two number and its just not enough.

Key I suppose is to just shrug it off and move on with life. I dunno what to work on so it will always be a case of luck and I get to choose how much I let it bother me  so I do have some choice.