Author ZA Dater Posted May 19, 2021 Author Posted May 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: I choose to believe all women that meet up with me socially at least find me acceptable on whatever scale they have for attractiveness. From that point it's just a matter of if we have chemistry or not. It doesn't matter what you believe is attractive though. You are not the buyer, you are the supplier. In what market does the supplier tell the buyer what they want? It's the other way around, the customer is always right. In the case of dating, the woman is right. The caveat is you could sell who you are right now as attractive, and people would believe it, but this requires confidence (which is the ultimate trump card with attracting women). Your position that you should be attractive to women doesn't work mainly because you lack the inner conviction to stand by it. This is exactly why the entire idea has limited appeal. Things that give you buying power, looks, money, humour and fun. No I do not have the inner conviction and neither would you if you walked a mile in my shoes of 20 odd years of no success at all. Can you honestly tell me would would believe you were attractive with that experience? I have had dates where women admitted they only met me because they had nothing to do, one wanted a fancy lunch, another wanted to compare to a guy she really liked, another admitted she had a bf and was not single, another admitted to being a professional lady so no merely meeting up with me, that mean nothing to me at all. Nobody would believe I am attractive "when was your last relationship" "I have never had one". Instant deal killer and frankly I am not prepared to lie, if people do not like the truth then so be it. I choose not to be fake on the pretence if I fake enough someone will buy into whatever BS I need to sell, sorry I have no interest in living that way. I am who I am, don't like it, well I could not care less. I am so tired of having my life dictated me by "well if you do this, maybe ladies will find you attractive" and I go and do that and the results are the same , then its "well maybe if you do that" and so on and on one goes feeling ever more miserable. No, I can live with a 2 min voice note every so often from someone who is interested in my life, over going back around this stupid roundabout which is unrewarding, depressing, soul destroying in alternate measure, I can do whatever I like, the dude arrives with the charisma, the looks and the cash, I have NO chance. Absolutely none. So no it feels pretty good to walk around bitter and jaded, its a LOT better than walking around defeated after no decent matches, terrible dates, no prospects being told "well you need to get experience, maybe you need to date people who have no experience", dealing with people who cannot even thank one for dinner, dealing with people who actually could not care even slightly. Its just a never ending cycle of defeat and rejection, the ONLY reasons I put up with it was the hoped I'd be able to beat the odds. I have tried to better myself, I have tried to look better, dress better be more confident, try to be funny, try to pander to what people apparently want but its NEVER EVER good enough and frankly its just enough. No matter what I do there is always some fault or issue. I have tried countless time, I have tried to be what I believe to be a good person because because I do not ooze sex appeal, I do not know how to seduce, I do not know how to charm. Everything I DONT know how to do is held AGAINST me by the world of dating. Is anyone I like ever prepared to accept those things, of course not, help....heck no!
dramafreezone Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: This is exactly why the entire idea has limited appeal. Things that give you buying power, looks, money, humour and fun. No I do not have the inner conviction and neither would you if you walked a mile in my shoes of 20 odd years of no success at all. Can you honestly tell me would would believe you were attractive with that experience? I have had dates where women admitted they only met me because they had nothing to do, one wanted a fancy lunch, another wanted to compare to a guy she really liked, another admitted she had a bf and was not single, another admitted to being a professional lady so no merely meeting up with me, that mean nothing to me at all. Nobody would believe I am attractive "when was your last relationship" "I have never had one". Instant deal killer and frankly I am not prepared to lie, if people do not like the truth then so be it. I choose not to be fake on the pretence if I fake enough someone will buy into whatever BS I need to sell, sorry I have no interest in living that way. I am who I am, don't like it, well I could not care less. I am so tired of having my life dictated me by "well if you do this, maybe ladies will find you attractive" and I go and do that and the results are the same , then its "well maybe if you do that" and so on and on one goes feeling ever more miserable. No, I can live with a 2 min voice note every so often from someone who is interested in my life, over going back around this stupid roundabout which is unrewarding, depressing, soul destroying in alternate measure, I can do whatever I like, the dude arrives with the charisma, the looks and the cash, I have NO chance. Absolutely none. So no it feels pretty good to walk around bitter and jaded, its a LOT better than walking around defeated after no decent matches, terrible dates, no prospects being told "well you need to get experience, maybe you need to date people who have no experience", dealing with people who cannot even thank one for dinner, dealing with people who actually could not care even slightly. Its just a never ending cycle of defeat and rejection, the ONLY reasons I put up with it was the hoped I'd be able to beat the odds. I have tried to better myself, I have tried to look better, dress better be more confident, try to be funny, try to pander to what people apparently want but its NEVER EVER good enough and frankly its just enough. No matter what I do there is always some fault or issue. I have tried countless time, I have tried to be what I believe to be a good person because because I do not ooze sex appeal, I do not know how to seduce, I do not know how to charm. Everything I DONT know how to do is held AGAINST me by the world of dating. Is anyone I like ever prepared to accept those things, of course not, help....heck no! The problem though is not any of your perceived shortcomings. There are almost 8 billion people in the world, and almost 8 billion of them have insecurities. The difference is that you're not really at peace with yours. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a movie star? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you have a 7-figure salary? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a fitness model? Yes. What accepting your insecurities means is that you acknowedge all of the above, but realize that there are still thousands of women that don't care about any of that stuff, actually more than you could possibly ever date. When you finally do get a date, your inner belief system says this one's going to go to crap, just like the other ones did, so you take deliberate actions to ensure that outcome. You aren't willing to tell a harmless lie like "How long was my previous relationship? About 2 years." Who does that hurt? She's asking because she wants to like you, and she wants to believe that she's with someone that is desired by other women. Attraction is a service you provide to the other person. They want to be attracted. I believe she would actually rather have some minor doubts as to if you're being truthful than to get the 100% truth and lose attraction to you. We don't really want the truth when it comes to matters of the heart if the truth hurts. You believing that you can only date women that you're "attracted to" is a way for you to not compete. You're intentionally aiming incredibly high with regard to looks to reinforce this inner belief that you're not good enough. Even if you do get dates, you've admitted that you sabatoge them and you don't care if you do. If you continue to set yourself up to fail, then you can point to the system and call it a crap system. All of this is so that you don't really have to put 100% effort in and face the music. My theory is that you're afraid that if you actually did get what you wanted, you wouldn't be good enough to keep it. So not having is less painful than getting what you want and realizing that you just can't handle it. 2
dramafreezone Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: This is exactly why the entire idea has limited appeal. Things that give you buying power, looks, money, humour and fun. No I do not have the inner conviction and neither would you if you walked a mile in my shoes of 20 odd years of no success at all. Can you honestly tell me would would believe you were attractive with that experience? I have had dates where women admitted they only met me because they had nothing to do, one wanted a fancy lunch, another wanted to compare to a guy she really liked, another admitted she had a bf and was not single, another admitted to being a professional lady so no merely meeting up with me, that mean nothing to me at all. Nobody would believe I am attractive "when was your last relationship" "I have never had one". Instant deal killer and frankly I am not prepared to lie, if people do not like the truth then so be it. I choose not to be fake on the pretence if I fake enough someone will buy into whatever BS I need to sell, sorry I have no interest in living that way. I am who I am, don't like it, well I could not care less. I am so tired of having my life dictated me by "well if you do this, maybe ladies will find you attractive" and I go and do that and the results are the same , then its "well maybe if you do that" and so on and on one goes feeling ever more miserable. No, I can live with a 2 min voice note every so often from someone who is interested in my life, over going back around this stupid roundabout which is unrewarding, depressing, soul destroying in alternate measure, I can do whatever I like, the dude arrives with the charisma, the looks and the cash, I have NO chance. Absolutely none. So no it feels pretty good to walk around bitter and jaded, its a LOT better than walking around defeated after no decent matches, terrible dates, no prospects being told "well you need to get experience, maybe you need to date people who have no experience", dealing with people who cannot even thank one for dinner, dealing with people who actually could not care even slightly. Its just a never ending cycle of defeat and rejection, the ONLY reasons I put up with it was the hoped I'd be able to beat the odds. I have tried to better myself, I have tried to look better, dress better be more confident, try to be funny, try to pander to what people apparently want but its NEVER EVER good enough and frankly its just enough. No matter what I do there is always some fault or issue. I have tried countless time, I have tried to be what I believe to be a good person because because I do not ooze sex appeal, I do not know how to seduce, I do not know how to charm. Everything I DONT know how to do is held AGAINST me by the world of dating. Is anyone I like ever prepared to accept those things, of course not, help....heck no! The problem though is not any of your perceived shortcomings. There are almost 8 billion people in the world, and almost 8 billion of them have insecurities. The difference is that you're not really at peace with yours. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a movie star? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you have a 7-figure salary? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a fitness model? Yes. What accepting your insecurities means is that you acknowedge all of the above, but realize that there are still thousands of women that don't care about any of that stuff, actually more than you could possibly ever date. When you finally do get a date, your inner belief system says this one's going to go to crap, just like the other ones did, so you take deliberate actions to ensure that outcome. You aren't willing to tell a harmless lie like "How long was my previous relationship? About 2 years." Who does that hurt? She's asking because she wants to like you, and she wants to believe that she's with someone that is desired by other women. Attraction is a service you provide to the other person. They want to be attracted. You believing that you can only date women that you're "attracted to" is a way for you to not compete. You're intentionally aiming incredibly high with regard to looks to reinforce this inner belief that you're not good enough. Even if you do get dates, you've admitted that you sabatoge them and you don't care if you do. If you continue to set yourself up to fail, then you can point to the system and call it a crap system. All of this is so that you don't really have to put 100% effort in and face the music. My theory is that you're afraid that if you actually did get what you wanted, you wouldn't be good enough to keep it. So not having is less painful than getting what you want and realizing that you just can't handle it. Edited May 19, 2021 by dramafreezone
Author ZA Dater Posted May 19, 2021 Author Posted May 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: The problem though is not any of your perceived shortcomings. There are almost 8 billion people in the world, and almost 8 billion of them have insecurities. The difference is that you're not really at peace with yours. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a movie star? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you have a 7-figure salary? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a fitness model? Yes. What accepting your insecurities means is that you acknowedge all of the above, but realize that there are still thousands of women that don't care about any of that stuff, actually more than you could possibly ever date. When you finally do get a date, your inner belief system says this one's going to go to crap, just like the other ones did, so you take deliberate actions to ensure that outcome. You aren't willing to tell a harmless lie like "How long was my previous relationship? About 2 years." Who does that hurt? She's asking because she wants to like you, and she wants to believe that she's with someone that is desired by other women. Attraction is a service you provide to the other person. They want to be attracted. I believe she would actually rather have some minor doubts as to if you're being truthful than to get the 100% truth and lose attraction to you. We don't really want the truth when it comes to matters of the heart if the truth hurts. You believing that you can only date women that you're "attracted to" is a way for you to not compete. You're intentionally aiming incredibly high with regard to looks to reinforce this inner belief that you're not good enough. Even if you do get dates, you've admitted that you sabatoge them and you don't care if you do. If you continue to set yourself up to fail, then you can point to the system and call it a crap system. All of this is so that you don't really have to put 100% effort in and face the music. My theory is that you're afraid that if you actually did get what you wanted, you wouldn't be good enough to keep it. So not having is less painful than getting what you want and realizing that you just can't handle it. I aim high because that's what I find attractive. It's really that simple. Will I fail sure but I am told everyone does but most find some success. If I were good enough I'd have has a relationship. I had 50 Tinder matches at one stage not one was slim like me, not one but I guess you think I should date people I don't find attractive on the basis i would suddenly find them attractive. No if her attraction to me is defined by what other people think of me, I am not interested not even slightly. If having no relationship history makes me unattractive so be it, quite honestly if they tried to kiss me she will find out I have no experience so why lie about it. At what point are they supposed to make themselves attractive to me? If ever. She can like me for my manners not how long my last relationship was. Funny my inner belief has seldom been wrong so... hardly ever do I feel much excitement to go on these dates. This one was better but I knew it would go nowhere but tried anyway. I'll just be the friend or the "help'. I do those roles pretty well apparently. Dating is just totally negative.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 19, 2021 Author Posted May 19, 2021 I did have exactly what I wanted and was never in the running and lost out for the same reasons I always do. No worries she still speaks to me, still takes an interest and I have comfort that what I wanted is in reality better than I imagined. That's as close to a win as I will ever get.
Miss Spider Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: The problem though is not any of your perceived shortcomings. There are almost 8 billion people in the world, and almost 8 billion of them have insecurities. The difference is that you're not really at peace with yours. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a movie star? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you have a 7-figure salary? Yes. Are there women that won't go out with you unless you look like a fitness model? Yes. What accepting your insecurities means is that you acknowedge all of the above, but realize that there are still thousands of women that don't care about any of that stuff, actually more than you could possibly ever date. When you finally do get a date, your inner belief system says this one's going to go to crap, just like the other ones did, so you take deliberate actions to ensure that outcome. You aren't willing to tell a harmless lie like "How long was my previous relationship? About 2 years." Who does that hurt? She's asking because she wants to like you, and she wants to believe that she's with someone that is desired by other women. Attraction is a service you provide to the other person. They want to be attracted. You believing that you can only date women that you're "attracted to" is a way for you to not compete. You're intentionally aiming incredibly high with regard to looks to reinforce this inner belief that you're not good enough. Even if you do get dates, you've admitted that you sabatoge them and you don't care if you do. If you continue to set yourself up to fail, then you can point to the system and call it a crap system. All of this is so that you don't really have to put 100% effort in and face the music. My theory is that you're afraid that if you actually did get what you wanted, you wouldn't be good enough to keep it. So not having is less painful than getting what you want and realizing that you just can't handle it. Not saying I don’t believe saying confidence is key, and especially not saying it won’t help. But ZA wants to date Instagram “models.” I’m friends with some of these, 20k + followers , I’m not saying they’re all the same or that there are 0 exceptions but the ones I know either go for attractive or wealthy guys or guys with a lot clout OR someone they’ve been with since high school/childhood.... no exception... I thought I found an exception once; but it turned out they were high school sweethearts and it made much more sense to me. Now I’m sure confidence can get someone much, much further than they’d otherwise get, but there is the matching hypothesis, but I venture if you look into the guys that most Instagram model type chicks date, you’ll see they’re loaded or have some kind of connections.. or good looking too. Not to mention, these guys who are loaded/attractive/popular are gaming a good chunk of those chicks... some young ceo or rapper sliding into the DM’s of a good portion of these girls and playing them.. their hearts getting all wrapped around Chad Thunderc*ck this happened to 2 of my friends here in Indy. H is gorgeous, she has 20k followers and this semi -cute but not my type professional skateboarder who owns several popping businesses bro type with 200k followers from SoCal dated her for awhile and then she became VERY upset because he ghosted her, she’s checked out, not dating , though lots of guys would love to... including some very confident guys she calls her friends... that’s just it. Everyone trying to “date up” I’m just saying that it’s good to be confident, but also be practical about it.. some things you can’t change but learn people skills/learn practice skills/get be good at it/get clout/acquire currency, focus on the grind/self improvement/get in shape... & confidence follows with that success. It’s hard to be genuinely confident if you only want Instagram models and keep striking out. can’t really change . So many dudes put on this fake air of confidence and it doesn’t work Edited May 19, 2021 by Cookiesandough
dramafreezone Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: No if her attraction to me is defined by what other people think of me, I am not interested not even slightly. If having no relationship history makes me unattractive so be it, quite honestly if they tried to kiss me she will find out I have no experience so why lie about it. Well yes, if you can't come to grips with how integral social proof is in interpersonal relationships, then you will continue to have no success. It's not just in relationships. It's in business, it's in commerce. You buy products online based on their star-rating don't you? Or do you intentionally look for the products with no ratings, because somehow those products must actually be the best? If you ran a mortgage lending company, you would seek out the people with no record of credit history, because they're the ones with the most to offer because they're nice, right? And I'm sure you never bought anything because you saw it in a commercial with a pretty woman.
dramafreezone Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Not saying I don’t believe saying confidence is key, and especially not saying it won’t help. But ZA wants to date Instagram “models.” I’m friends with some of these, 20k + followers , I’m not saying they’re all the same or that there are 0 exceptions but the ones I know either go for attractive or wealthy guys or guys with a lot clout OR someone they’ve been with since high school/childhood.... no exception... I thought I found an exception once; but it turned out they were high school sweethearts and it made much more sense to me. Now I’m sure confidence can get someone much, much further than they’d otherwise get, but there is the matching hypothesis, but I venture if you look into the guys that most Instagram model type chicks date, you’ll see they’re loaded or have some kind of connections.. or good looking too. Not to mention, these guys who are loaded/attractive/popular are gaming a good chunk of those chicks... some young ceo or rapper sliding into the DM’s of a good portion of these girls and playing them.. their hearts getting all wrapped around Chad Thunderc*ck this happened to 2 of my friends here in Indy. H is gorgeous, she has 20k followers and this semi -cute but not my type professional skateboarder who owns several popping businesses bro type with 200k followers from SoCal dated her for awhile and then she became VERY upset because he ghosted her, she’s checked out, not dating , though lots of guys would love to... including some very confident guys she calls her friends... that’s just it. Everyone trying to “date up” I’m just saying that it’s good to be confident, but also be practical about it.. some things you can’t change but learn people skills/learn practice skills/get be good at it/get clout/acquire currency, focus on the grind/self improvement/get in shape... & confidence follows with that success. It’s hard to be genuinely confident if you only want Instagram models and keep striking out. can’t really change . So many dudes put on this fake air of confidence and it doesn’t work He doesn't want to date instagram models. That's just who he idealizes so that he doesn't have to date women that would actually be attracted to him. He has no basis for wanting them, certainly not aside from any other guy. We all want them by his definition of wanting them. Edited May 19, 2021 by dramafreezone 1
Miss Spider Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) I agree with you overall... which is why I suggest he be practical about it..: when asked what’s an example of a girl he likes he said like Blake lively .. who also is popular and outgoing with fun and interesting hobbies .. does not drink or party. And just take Blake lively, who if not famous and still drank is still a quite pretty girl and would most likely get a Ryan Reynolds type dude... maybe not Ryan Reynolds the actor .., but Ryan Reynolds, a patent lawyer or some sht like that ... I mean if she can why would settle for a man confident in his boring? I just think it helps to be practical . But he said he’d rather have nothing ...ZA makes like he’s picky, but maybe it is just defense mechanism Edited May 19, 2021 by Cookiesandough 2
Trail Blazer Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 3 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Nope I was not. She had no obligation to order me dinner, no obligation to sit talking to me for 4 hours, no obligation to invite me to spend time with her. The point is she choose to spend time around me, she had no obligation to go away with me, she could have said no and be done with it. For a time I could be the person I really want to be and be valued as that person rather than thrown away like a piece of trash. Yeah, bro... so where is she now!? 1
elaine567 Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said: she had no obligation to go away with me, she could have said no and be done with it. Was that not the week end of the prestigious dinner that you organised and you got tickets for her brother to attend too? She tried to get her new bf tickets also but you blocked him from attending... 1
Miss Spider Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Was that not the week end of the prestigious dinner that you organised and you got tickets for her brother to attend too? She tried to get her new bf tickets also but you blocked him from attending... Wait what
dramafreezone Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I did have exactly what I wanted and was never in the running and lost out for the same reasons I always do. No worries she still speaks to me, still takes an interest and I have comfort that what I wanted is in reality better than I imagined. That's as close to a win as I will ever get. Yes because you refuse to commit to making yourself competitive. You're like someone that says I want to go Harvard, yet doesn't think they have to make the grades to get in. "Well, I have a good personality, that should be good for me to get into the most competitive university in the world. I don't care what their standards are. I think my personality should matter for something. Forget these millions of other guys that worked hard and paid the price of admission. If I have to get good grades and recommendations then I'll be happy to just be uneducated. Why do they care so much about what other people think? I tried working hard for a few weeks in school. Why isn't that enough?" You can want Harvard all you want, it doesn't mean a thing. You don't have any right to feel as though you've been wronged when you haven't put forth the same effort as most of the other applicants. You're looking at the few legacy applicants and forgetting that all of the others had to work to get what they got. Edited May 19, 2021 by dramafreezone 1
Miss Spider Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 That’s an almost perfect analogy and what makes Za’s plight so hard to read
jspice Posted May 19, 2021 Posted May 19, 2021 40 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Was that not the week end of the prestigious dinner that you organised and you got tickets for her brother to attend too? She tried to get her new bf tickets also but you blocked him from attending... And helping her with some “financial matters” which advice would probably cost an arm and a leg for the ugly folks in life. 1
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 8 hours ago, dramafreezone said: Yes because you refuse to commit to making yourself competitive. You're like someone that says I want to go Harvard, yet doesn't think they have to make the grades to get in. "Well, I have a good personality, that should be good for me to get into the most competitive university in the world. I don't care what their standards are. I think my personality should matter for something. Forget these millions of other guys that worked hard and paid the price of admission. If I have to get good grades and recommendations then I'll be happy to just be uneducated. Why do they care so much about what other people think? I tried working hard for a few weeks in school. Why isn't that enough?" You can want Harvard all you want, it doesn't mean a thing. You don't have any right to feel as though you've been wronged when you haven't put forth the same effort as most of the other applicants. You're looking at the few legacy applicants and forgetting that all of the others had to work to get what they got. With due respect this is actually a ridiculous analogy. What I find amazing about comments such as these is because I know LOTS of people who have NEVER had to do this "work" you all keep going on about yet cannot actually ever specifically say what exactly it is....What you do not seem to get is I DID compete for a LONG time, I DID choose to compete in this instance, I am not going to bother to put in any effort to compete when 1: I do not find the person attractive 2: I can seen fundamentally it will not work. I take this "work hard to date" with a Table Mountain worth of salt. The choices I have are really simple the way I see it, be the best version of who I am and be sort of happy with that or try to be someone I am not, do things I do not enjoy and be miserable. Frankly neither assures me of a date, neither makes any difference but the former makes for a more pleasant life. For what its worth this its very hard to do things you do not know how to do, never mind get judged harshly for the same.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: It’s hard to be genuinely confident if you only want Instagram models and keep striking out. can’t really change . So many dudes put on this fake air of confidence and it doesn’t work I actually appreciate this because for the first time someone on here has admitted its extremely hard to gain confidence if all you experience is rejection. Though I know so many fake guys who do very well being fake and spinning the biggest lot of nonsense.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 9 hours ago, dramafreezone said: Well yes, if you can't come to grips with how integral social proof is in interpersonal relationships, then you will continue to have no success. It's not just in relationships. It's in business, it's in commerce. You buy products online based on their star-rating don't you? Or do you intentionally look for the products with no ratings, because somehow those products must actually be the best? If you ran a mortgage lending company, you would seek out the people with no record of credit history, because they're the ones with the most to offer because they're nice, right? And I'm sure you never bought anything because you saw it in a commercial with a pretty woman. No I never ever buy anything based on the opinion of others. I'll buy what I want and draw my own conclusions as to how good or how bad it is, I do not decide before hand if I like the product or not. As far as I am concerned dating history is irrelevant, I might as well then ask her how many boyfriends she has had, amounts to the same thing really. I am not going to lie about a lack of experience at relationships because it will always catch up with me at some point and to be honest I think I pretty much wear no experience on my forehead so I do not need to tell them, they can see it.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 9 hours ago, dramafreezone said: He doesn't want to date instagram models. That's just who he idealizes so that he doesn't have to date women that would actually be attracted to him. He has no basis for wanting them, certainly not aside from any other guy. We all want them by his definition of wanting them. Honestly. If I had attractive matches I would certainly date them but I do not and really I cannot put this any more clearly. I attract nobody I want and everyone I do not want. You just think about that for a minute.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: I agree with you overall... which is why I suggest he be practical about it..: when asked what’s an example of a girl he likes he said like Blake lively .. who also is popular and outgoing with fun and interesting hobbies .. does not drink or party. And just take Blake lively, who if not famous and still drank is still a quite pretty girl and would most likely get a Ryan Reynolds type dude... maybe not Ryan Reynolds the actor .., but Ryan Reynolds, a patent lawyer or some sht like that ... I mean if she can why would settle for a man confident in his boring? I just think it helps to be practical . But he said he’d rather have nothing ...ZA makes like he’s picky, but maybe it is just defense mechanism Again you prove another one of my points. All I have spent 20 years doing really is proving the above to to be true to my own detriment but also to my own ability to learn, I guess if you never meet really nice people, then anyone will do, if you don't eat Michelin star food than a McDonalds burger will do but as soon as you experience what is REALLY good then then everything else seems well not as appealing. My mistake in life was to be exposed to everything good, the great gatsby like parties, the glamorous people, the opulence and the worldly approach of many of those people. But yet I'd stand on the train for nearly 10 years with some of the poorest of the poor, chatting to them just like I do the CEO so yes I live in these alternate worlds. For me with dating and with everything else I need the sense "ok this is he very best I can do" which I got with the window and which is why dating does not keep me awake at night as much as it used to, its difficult to imagine anything better than what I had. SO sure I can go on a date with ABC who works in accounts, lives a pretty normal life but there is none of that worldly viewpoint which is OK IF there was any sense they found me attractive, none do, if they took any interest, none do. Instead I sit there trying to carry the entire date and conversation which is pointless, I get more happiness out of a 5 minute conversation with the window than I get form 3 hours of trying to carry a date with someone who just offers up nothing. SO yes given the choice I'd rather have nothing than more of that. I have worked hard to make myself conversational about most topics but clearly this again is not important. PS: I did not actually know she does not drink .
elaine567 Posted May 20, 2021 Posted May 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: its very hard to do things you do not know how to do But surely you see that that is the problem. You see no point in fixing anything as the truth is, you do not know how to fix it, not that it is not fixable.. The analogy from DFZ is actually correct, the would be Harvard student doesn't know how to work hard, pass exams and get good grades, so he assumes merely "being" will get him through. You keep saying you are who you are, you do not want to change, but you are never going to attract a woman... merely "being" is never enough. Everyone needs to work hard to get a date, even great looking people can be rejected if they are boring, arrogant or just bad company in general or are not sexy enough.... Being who YOU are is not enough, that is he bottom line and unless you make strides to change who you are, we will all be here in 10 years time... In fact you now seem more rigid and set in your ways than ever. Sorry but confirmed bachelor is where you are headed. if you are not already there. You have tried everything and nothing worked... yeah sure. You tried what was easy for you and ignored the glaringly obvious. This is NOT about a new haircut or a new set of clothes or about hanging out in new places... It is far more fundamental and basic than that. It is mostly IMO about sex, you are not sexy, you do not exude sex and no-one is ever really turned on by a platonic "friend". In fact many are repulsed, as to them you are just wasting their time. Time they could spend chatting up a potential mate... They don't want a new platonic friend, they want a friend AND a lover. Until you display some inkling that you could be her lover, then you will never get anywhere. B-B B- BUT I kissed a girl once and she didn't like it, I am not doing that again. BIG deal. I am sorry but this is nonsense. My first kiss was also a disaster, did it stop me, did it stop the guy from ever kissing again? Um no, why would it? You also live in a delusional world where you get the girt you want by staying the same.. NO, never in a million years. You had a great opportunity here, but you blew it, you were YOU, but she didn't want YOU, she didn't really need a platonic friend, she wanted a lover and she went out and got herself one. But keep telling yourself it was about looks and money... Now she no doubt feels a bit guilty for using you and she has her eye on perhaps being able to use you again so she keeps in minimal touch. Women who are actively dating want lovers not friends. At least you have some insight, you know you are either "useful" or you are nowhere... Unless you make an effort to get sexier, this is the story of your life. And don't say that is OK, you will simply sail the ship alone, as, we know and you know, it is really not OK. 1 1
Miss Spider Posted May 20, 2021 Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) Hey I’m not really purposefully trying to be contrarian here. I agree with everything Elaine has said to a tee, except maybe the problem being that you don’t exude sex. I mean...you don’t, and she may be right on that point and I may be wrong or even plain misinterpreting it, but I know from my own experience there have been a number of guys I’ve encountered ( including men who started as friends) that I had to fair bit of imagination into having sex with, but I still did it because I found them attractive despite their’ asexual ‘ or ‘aromantic’ energy. Maybe even partly because of it. But mostly because they had other attributes that were attractive. I tend not to be attracted to men who I’d say “exude sexuality”, it’s not my type, and I don’t think I’m that unusual, either. I imagine it’s a little like men with women. Some guys prefer the girls who are super sexy and some find the more innocent type that leave a lot to imagination sexier The reason I felt compelled to say this is because the thought of you putting on an act to exude sexuality is a bit worrying. That can be quite creepy/off putting and I know guys who do try to be sexy and it doesn’t match their vibe/who they actually are and it’s... no. In fact it is very creepy. The thing about it is that if you have attributes that woman find attractive you don’t really have to be overtly sexual, I don’t think. The women that friendzone you most likely aren’t friendzoning you because you act friendly. They’re friendzoning you because you don’t have the attributes or enough of the attributes they find attractive. I don’t know why you said no one has mentioned the specific things that would help in that area. From what I’ve read, many people, Elaine, myself just a few posts earlier in this thread, et al specified things you can do to be more attractive to women. The opinions differ slightly, but are generally in agreement. it’s interesting you’re now saying the problem is no one has made specific suggestions when you spend most of your posts basically dismissing each suggestion with “I don’t want to do that because it isnt authentic”... Edited May 20, 2021 by Cookiesandough 2
elaine567 Posted May 20, 2021 Posted May 20, 2021 By exuding sex I did not mean he needs to be super sexy or built like like Jason Mamoa. Even shy guys can exude sex, it is something women pick up on, even if the guy is not beating on his chest or acting like a raging bull. It can be subtle, it can be classy but everyone is well aware there is a real live man in the room instead of a platonic friend. 2
Miss Spider Posted May 20, 2021 Posted May 20, 2021 I see, Elaine. I might see the distinction you are making. I think I might have always called that as less uptight, more relaxed, fluid, natural, confident in themselves/their body than sexuality, but it might be the same thing. Sorry if I misunderstood 1
Author ZA Dater Posted May 20, 2021 Author Posted May 20, 2021 4 hours ago, elaine567 said: You keep saying you are who you are, you do not want to change, but you are never going to attract a woman... merely "being" is never enough. Everyone needs to work hard to get a date, even great looking people can be rejected if they are boring, arrogant or just bad company in general or are not sexy enough.... Being who YOU are is not enough, that is he bottom line and unless you make strides to change who you are, we will all be here in 10 years time... In fact you now seem more rigid and set in your ways than ever. Sorry but confirmed bachelor is where you are headed. if you are not already there. You have tried everything and nothing worked... yeah sure. You tried what was easy for you and ignored the glaringly obvious. This is NOT about a new haircut or a new set of clothes or about hanging out in new places... It is far more fundamental and basic than that.It is mostly IMO about sex, you are not sexy, you do not exude sex and no-one is ever really turned on by a platonic "friend". In fact many are repulsed, as to them you are just wasting their time. Time they could spend chatting up a potential mate... They don't want a new platonic friend, they want a friend AND a lover.Until you display some inkling that you could be her lover, then you will never get anywhere. B-B B- BUT I kissed a girl once and she didn't like it, I am not doing that again. BIG deal. I am sorry but this is nonsense. My first kiss was also a disaster, did it stop me, did it stop the guy from ever kissing again? Um no, why would it? You also live in a delusional world where you get the girt you want by staying the same.. NO, never in a million years. You had a great opportunity here, but you blew it, you were YOU, but she didn't want YOU, she didn't really need a platonic friend, she wanted a lover and she went out and got herself one. But keep telling yourself it was about looks and money...Now she no doubt feels a bit guilty for using you and she has her eye on perhaps being able to use you again so she keeps in minimal touch. Women who are actively dating want lovers not friends. At least you have some insight, you know you are either "useful" or you are nowhere... Unless you make an effort to get sexier, this is the story of your life. And don't say that is OK, you will simply sail the ship alone, as, we know and you know, it is really not OK. Ok let me ask you this. How does someone who has never had any good experience exude any sort of sex appeal? Frankly women are intolerant of experience, that famous kiss was a total disaster and the look on her face said everything and I have no doubt that would happen again, how do I explain this away, please do tell me? I am more rigid because I just care less than I once did, I am not chasing the "wow" moment anymore because I have had that and it was better than I imagined. The pursuit of that was what kept me in the game. I'll happily be used again because it gets me back to that wow which I like, sure its not helpful but its better than nothing. I will say I think most of the above it correct. Everyone lives with regrets and I get to live with many. The underlined verges on the near impossible frankly for a multitude of reasons. The biggest one being I need to feel comfortable around a person and in the dating context that hardly ever happens. The other one being the fact I am simply shy, the other one being I cannot read people, the other one being I simply know I do not have experience. Eventually all these issues will come out in the wash at some point and the way I see it the only way to solve them is to find someone who likes me enough and who I like enough that they are prepared to ignore these, which is like saying I am going to climb Mount Everest in 1 hour. Near impossible. I know the lack of sex appeal which is why I try to make up for that in other ways. The same ways which get me into the friend zone. Its not like I do not try and make up for what I do not have. The reality I cant succeed at this. The window knows all of this, I opened up completely to her and at least doing that made me feel a bit better about it. Maybe that is why she is nice to me. Who knows. I can tell you its more than anyone else has bothered to do. I sit here and think what can I do and its very hard to think of anything really. All the best experiences were friend zone ones, I would not know when to kiss someone, I do not know how to flirt and charm, just about the only thing I can do so show attraction via kindness and loyalty but that's hardly enough. I have tried to be charming, I have tried to flirt but for what really, logically how do win against people who have had massive head starts. Maybe I just need to stick to things I sort of know how to do.
Recommended Posts