Coffee Date

May 14, 2021

3 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Don't you know that the secret of seduction is humor?

I think you would benefit from the release of endorphine that laughing generates.

Sure, as people keep telling me, unfortunately my humour is more of the dry type, though it must be said miss window seemed to find me amusing much of the time and that got me nowhere. I do a serious job all day, there is not a great degree of humour but sure I can find things to laugh at but not often on dates, I'd rather they laugh at me on dates, that's perfectly fine.

This date there was laughing actually, by me too. But the thing is I know the outcome before I go so the outcome never really surprises me. I go and hope to have a decent conversation, if I can do that, its an OK date.

The band aid really is to create a life so busy there is not time to date.....

May 14, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The band aid really is to create a life so busy there is not time to date.....

Agree. Sometimes when you're busy not looking, something shows up, never know, right?

May 14, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

You always say such nice things.

However you once again read incorrectly, I have no issue with what people find find and what they do for fun, does not mean I have to partake, they wont find what I find fun either so. If someone wants to drink and party and go out, that's cool with me but but then do not critique me because I do not enjoy those things.

Everyone uses everyone else to lesser or greater degrees. Just in this thread I have been told that dating is bought so there is that too. Not sure where the average women with kids comment comes from because I do not recall typing that, it would be true that most single mothers do not interest me for a multitude of reasons.

Once again thanks you for saying such nice things, compliments accepted.

You’re welcome

May 14, 2021

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure, as people keep telling me, unfortunately my humour is more of the dry type, though it must be said miss window seemed to find me amusing much of the time and that got me nowhere. I do a serious job all day, there is not a great degree of humour but sure I can find things to laugh at but not often on dates, I'd rather they laugh at me on dates, that's perfectly fine.

This date there was laughing actually, by me too. But the thing is I know the outcome before I go so the outcome never really surprises me. I go and hope to have a decent conversation, if I can do that, its an OK date.

The band aid really is to create a life so busy there is not time to date.....

Well the brain has no choice but to act in a way to reinforce your belief. You can't outperform your belief system, same concept as "garbage in garbage out" in IT.

May 15, 2021

18 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

Well the brain has no choice but to act in a way to reinforce your belief. You can't outperform your belief system, same concept as "garbage in garbage out" in IT.

Guess so. Can just be happy with whatever I have. Irrespective if I am alone.

May 17, 2021

On 5/9/2021 at 12:48 PM, ZA Dater said:

After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years.

Quote

I like the coffee date idea. It's always what I tell guys to do for the first date for 40 to 45 minutes.

Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean.

My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common, some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare.

Quote

Hold up, did you make her giggle? Did she touch you on the hand or arm when you made her laugh? Did she do a lot of the conversation? When women are attracted to you, they help you. Remember that.

And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away?

Quote

Ok, this is Feminese for: I'm not attracted to you. She says lets be friends and that's ok. Here's what you say in reply: "Friends? Ya absolutely, we'll be friends for life. See ya." This is what you say, but in reality, you are not going to be friends so forget that. You are simply trying to show her that this dating stuff doesn't get to you inn any way and there's no hard feelings.

May 19, 2021

On 5/11/2021 at 4:09 AM, dramafreezone said:

Why don't you take something positive out of this? This attractive woman went out with you, so you likely met her minimum attraction level. That means if all went well she could see herself having sex with you.

That means you can't use this idea that you need to be some chiseled statue-esque guy to attract women. You're good enough, you have to work on raising her attraction level, and that takes a very specific set of skills that are severely underdeveloped in you right now.

Exactly! The situation that @ZA Dater finds himself in boils down to this.

May 19, 2021

12 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Exactly! The situation that @ZA Dater finds himself in boils down to this.

Because someone meets you does not automatically mean you are attractive, she ignored me for a week, spent the week at least according to social media going around with another guy, apparently a friend.

Honestly one attractive person in 20 odd years is hardly indicative of attraction. I am fortunate that I got to experience what I wanted briefly and to be fair everything else after that is just going to be a disappointment so there is nothing more for me to aspire to. Sex would be nice but I can eventually just pay and have the best looking person my wallet can afford.

That is the point really, why am I even bothering with dating at all? What am I hoping to accomplish unless it is absolutely what I want? Sorry to say but I am really struggling to see what the type of person I can attract will add to my life.

I had the amazing experience earlier in the year but guys like me don't get ladies like her, they go for the wealthiest, best looking, most charming, most charismatic and I am none of those things so all I have spent 20 odd years trying to do is prove that guys like me can have ladies like her, which is categorically untrue. What I can attract offers zero appeal to me, one attractive person does not make me attractive, who knows why she met me, perhaps she was just bored. Who knows.

At least I have people I know who do get to attract the people I like so at least someone is successful.

May 19, 2021

Wow. Again, that’s a terribly negative/self-defeatist spin to put on it

May 19, 2021

Until you can accept who you attract is who you attract and be happy about it, there is NO solution here.

You did NOT attract the widow. Circumstances dictated why she came into your life.
She used you and discarded you, she was never attracted to you, she held you at arm's length and friend zoned you from the beginning...
With no (self admitted) game or sex appeal you stayed there.
You never had a hope in hell, that is the reality. Your friends were spot on, they tried to tell you...
I am not sure why you see this as some sort of a win... it isn't, it is a big loss.
It has made you even more determined to hanker after the impossible... when it should have been a huge wake up call.
A wake up call to learn some game, to cultivate some sex appeal, but no, you instead wallow in self pity.
IT'S NOT FAIR....

NO normal woman who is actively dating wants a platonic friend, they want to be "wooed", they want excitement, they want romance, they want sex....
Until you can provide that, even the most undesirable woman will reject you out of hand, never mind Miss IG Model...

May 19, 2021

Hmm I never really got the impression romance was the problem for ZA, other than he might be brought down by his own sense of it. He white-knighted the h*ll out of the widowed insta thot, and she was more than happy to take advantage of that ‘friendship’ the only problem occurred when she got flown out to hook up with Chad, instead of falling head over heels for Za, which is pretty much textbook in these scenarios. He could probably get * A* woman. The problem seems to be that ZA does not possess many if any of the qualities that women of the caliber he wants to get expect and he’s been emphatic he doesn’t want to put effort in to change this. Yet around and around we go. Weeeee

Edited May 19, 2021 by Cookiesandough

May 19, 2021

As with many facets of life, when you set a goal it should be attainable. Dating is no different.

Average looking guys date average looking women. A guy can jump a couple of leagues with a big enough wallet, but for the most part "water seeks its own level".

May 19, 2021

1 hour ago, Happy Lemming said:

As with many facets of life, when you set a goal it should be attainable. Dating is no different.

Average looking guys date average looking women. A guy can jump a couple of leagues with a big enough wallet, but for the most part "water seeks its own level".

Which is why the idea has very little interest for me anymore. Still waiting for someone to tell me exactly what average is. Fact of the matter is in pretty much everything I'd rather have nothing than something I do not want. Maybe this wrong but it is how I live.

May 19, 2021

1 hour ago, Cookiesandough said:

Hmm I never really got the impression romance was the problem for ZA, other than he might be brought down by his own sense of it. He white-knighted the h*ll out of the widowed insta thot, and she was more than happy to take advantage of that ‘friendship’ the only problem occurred when she got flown out to hook up with Chad, instead of falling head over heels for Za, which is pretty much textbook in these scenarios. He could probably get * A* woman. The problem seems to be that ZA does not possess many if any of the qualities that women of the caliber he wants to get expect and he’s been emphatic he doesn’t want to put effort in to change this. Yet around and around we go. Weeeee

I am who I am and I'd walk around alright with that than walk around miserable by going to places I do not like, doing things I do not like all in the hope that miss whoever will take an interest and even if I did those things there would be something else wrong or inferior about me. Just think about this whole cycle for a minute.....

With her I was really please actually, I managed to convey a lot of confidence, I could be me without wondering what I was doing wrong or was doing right and I could speak from my mind rather than thinking about everything before I said it. We spoke about lots of thing, she knows my story and I felt good telling it, she could have chosen to have nothing to do with me, instead she engaged with me, asked me questions and it was nice to actually be that best version of me for a while and to enjoy the things I had been looking for for so long.

You right what I like wants nothing I have to offer and nothing I change will ever make up for that and nothing I do will ever transform me into that person. Its tough but its the truth so the only way I get to enjoy a bit of it is to find situations like this or simply live vicariously though others.

Would I like more of what I had with her, yes but if the person is not attractive to me the entire idea is irrelevant to the point of being totally pointless. At least I can look back and say just for a time I had pretty much everything I wanted. I'd rather have that than be stuck dating someone that makes me feel nothing at all.

May 19, 2021

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I'd rather have nothing...

Then that is what you shall have... nothing.

For me, I'd rather date average looking women then be alone and stare at the four walls.

I'm average and my long term girlfriend is average. In the end, I'm happy.

For the record, I don't consider being "average" a put-down or a dig. If you look at a bell curve, the majority of us are indeed, average.

May 19, 2021

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Until you can accept who you attract is who you attract and be happy about it, there is NO solution here.

You did NOT attract the widow. Circumstances dictated why she came into your life.
She used you and discarded you, she was never attracted to you, she held you at arm's length and friend zoned you from the beginning...
With no (self admitted) game or sex appeal you stayed there.
You never had a hope in hell, that is the reality. Your friends were spot on, they tried to tell you...
I am not sure why you see this as some sort of a win... it isn't, it is a big loss.
It has made you even more determined to hanker after the impossible... when it should have been a huge wake up call.
A wake up call to learn some game, to cultivate some sex appeal, but no, you instead wallow in self pity.
IT'S NOT FAIR....

NO normal woman who is actively dating wants a platonic friend, they want to be "wooed", they want excitement, they want romance, they want sex....
Until you can provide that, even the most undesirable woman will reject you out of hand, never mind Miss IG Model...

Sometimes with you I read these posts as "tough love". I think circumstances dictate how many people land up dating, meeting via friends, at an event, at a coffee shop so yes it was circumstance.

I never felt used because what I gave I gave because I wanted to, what I received back in terms of warmth and companionship was miles more than what I gave and told her this. Of course she was never attracted to me, few are attracted to me and those who are, mostly they are trying to find a way out of their own circumstances. It was nice to compete for a while and at least this time I know why I lost which is not always the case. Why gives me some closure and well she still talks to me often so I still have someone in life who I really enjoy having around, not sure where the loss is there. The way I see it this is about the best I can ever hope for and if you offered me this or someone who would sleep with me and would try and provide that warmth but was not attractive to me wholly then I frankly would rather have the friend.

Again I got a lot right with her, I could convey confidence, I did much better in social situations where I was happy to lead the conversation, spending time around a baby brought out the soft side of me which I keep well hidden most of the time and it was good to just have for a short time someone to actually care about. I was happy with me, happy that within reason I was the best version of myself. That in itself was a good feeling.

No life is very fair, those with the best looks , the biggest wallets, they have the choice and that is simply how it is. I can argue against it all I like, neither I nor you nor anyone else can change it. Fit in or off, that really the crux of it.

I am well past the point where learning is deemed acceptable and even further past the point where no experience is considered to be normal, what would anyone accept this when they can go out and find better?

One thing I very rarely do is change position and after another birthday devoid of friends I just decided to, instead of mope about it, just accept it.

May 19, 2021

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

she could have chosen to have nothing to do with me, instead she engaged with me,

Werent you setting her and her child up with a temporary place to live

May 19, 2021

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

Then that is what you shall have... nothing.

For me, I'd rather date average looking women then be alone and stare at the four walls.

I'm average and my long term girlfriend is average. In the end, I'm happy.

For the record, I don't consider being "average" a put-down or a dig. If you look at a bell curve, the majority of us are indeed, average.

Well there we differ, in my world you should always aspire to what you want and accept nothing less provided that the want is realistic and I believe I have enough qualities which over a prolonged period of time would make me attractive. Notice the word choice there.

I could never ever be happy dating someone I do not find attractive, its just really simple if she does not tick the things I find attractive then I am totally uninterested. I wish I had enforced this more strongly when I was going on endless pathetic OLD dates under the assumption it was a numbers game.

At the end of the day so long as you are happy that is all that matters, me, I actually do not care too much for the concept but I can tell you I felt pretty happy spending time with the window, in fact for the first time ever I felt a sense of complete contentment.It was very nice indeed, I do not feel that when I go on a date and the person asks me nothing about myself, does not engage with me, has no interest in seemingly anything, no motivation, no there I just feel complete irritation.

And yes I have never had anything, hard to miss what you never had.....or so they say.

May 19, 2021

Just now, Cookiesandough said:

Werent you setting her and her child up with a temporary place to live

Nope I was not. She had no obligation to order me dinner, no obligation to sit talking to me for 4 hours, no obligation to invite me to spend time with her. The point is she choose to spend time around me, she had no obligation to go away with me, she could have said no and be done with it.

For a time I could be the person I really want to be and be valued as that person rather than thrown away like a piece of trash.

May 19, 2021

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Nope I was not. She had no obligation to order me dinner, no obligation to sit talking to me for 4 hours, no obligation to invite me to spend time with her. The point is she choose to spend time around me, she had no obligation to go away with me, she could have said no and be done with it.

For a time I could be the person I really want to be and be valued as that person rather than thrown away like a piece of trash.

Oh I must of misunderstood how you came about contact. She obviously saw you as a friend. Why do you not believe you deserve basic human decency?

May 19, 2021

At the end of the day I want to simply be the best version of myself and that is the challenge I set myself each day, yes nobody will date me but that does not mean I cant value myself against what I want to be as a person, how I interact with others, the interest I take in clients and co workers, I can always strive to be the best version of myself there. That version will never matter to the athletic brunette because there is no sex appeal or charm or anything else and I accept that, I don't agree that I am severely penalised for not having those qualities when I have others which apparently many guys seem to lack but again I cant change the values ladies deem important.

I went on this date and I reckon I did a lot of it right, not all of it but quite a bit and I could leave and not cuss myself out for saying something stupid. Again I could be happy with that.

May 19, 2021

At the end of the day I want to simply be the best version of myself and that is the challenge I set myself each day, yes nobody will date me but that does not mean I cant value myself against what I want to be as a person, how I interact with others, the interest I take in clients and co workers, I can always strive to be the best version of myself there. That version will never matter to the athletic brunette because there is no sex appeal or charm or anything else and I accept that, I don't agree that I am severely penalised for not having those qualities when I have others which apparently many guys seem to lack but again I cant change the values ladies deem important.

I went on this date and I reckon I did a lot of it right, not all of it but quite a bit and I could leave and not cuss myself out for saying something stupid. Again I could be happy with that.

May 19, 2021

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Nope I was not. She had no obligation to order me dinner, no obligation to sit talking to me for 4 hours, no obligation to invite me to spend time with her. The point is she choose to spend time around me, she had no obligation to go away with me, she could have said no and be done with it.

For a time I could be the person I really want to be and be valued as that person rather than thrown away like a piece of trash.

Also, you did stuff for her too.. you listened to her too., don’t act like you did not... she doesn’t get to stand on the pedestal and a shiny medal for a little reciprocation

Edited May 19, 2021 by Cookiesandough

May 19, 2021

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Because someone meets you does not automatically mean you are attractive

I choose to believe all women that meet up with me socially at least find me acceptable on whatever scale they have for attractiveness. From that point it's just a matter of if we have chemistry or not.

Quote

Well there we differ, in my world you should always aspire to what you want and accept nothing less provided that the want is realistic and I believe I have enough qualities which over a prolonged period of time would make me attractive. Notice the word choice there.

It doesn't matter what you believe is attractive though. You are not the buyer, you are the supplier.

In what market does the supplier tell the buyer what they want? It's the other way around, the customer is always right. In the case of dating, the woman is right.

The caveat is you could sell who you are right now as attractive, and people would believe it, but this requires confidence (which is the ultimate trump card with attracting women). Your position that you should be attractive to women doesn't work mainly because you lack the inner conviction to stand by it.

Edited May 19, 2021 by dramafreezone

May 19, 2021

20 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said:

Also, you did stuff for her too.. you listened to her too., don’t act like you did not... she doesn’t get to stand on the pedestal and a shiny medal for a little reciprocation

Exactly it was a two way street and enjoyed listening to her and what was going on in her life which again is more than I get on 99% of dates.

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