Author ZA Dater Posted May 12, 2021 Author Posted May 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: Of course. Paying a price comes in many forms, but it usually boils down to time, money or both. Improving yourself though becoming more personable, more comfortable around women comes at the cost of time for instance. If you're trying to get a better career, it comes at the expense of time. Getting a great body costs time and money. All those men that OP says he despises paid a price to hone their game. Most of them weren't born with their game, they learned it, and endured rejection, embarassment to get there. Wealthy people (unless they inherited their wealth) paid a price to get where they are. Celebrities, entertainers, most paid a price. Does anyone think Brad Pitt would still be considered a sex symbol if he worked at a gas station? There are plenty of men that only have great success with women because of their status, which they had to earn. Really, whether it's charisma, status, wealth, physical prowess, those are all things you had to earn. And here's the thing, none of that has to do with you as an actual person. Good looks offer validation for the other person. Physical prowess offers safety/security/validation for the other person. Wealth offers a lifestyle/security/validation. Both good and bad people can possess all of these traits. So I don't see where using one to attract the opposite sex is somehow more or less virtuous than any other. You have to know what you have to offer and lean into it, not try to measure yourself against others. If you're not that attractive and try to measure your success against people who are, you're just setting yourself up for failure and misery. Yeah well. Its a price worth paying if the return is worth the price. I'd argue getting fit has little to do with money. Sure, they had to hone their game but they also had success along the way to mitigate against failure, at the end of the day you are right it has nothing do with with the actual person, I guess one either buys into that or not or to lesser or greater degrees. I have none of those traits. Unlikely to ever have them either.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 12, 2021 Author Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, dramafreezone said: You don't have to do that. Full disclosure, I opened an account on SA a couple of weeks ago. I haven't paid for any membership or messaged anyone, but it is really cool (and a bit of an ego boost) to see the dating dynamic flipped on its head. I have a much better idea of what women experience on traditional OLD. I get 5-10 favorites a day. I don't believe in paying for meetups or paying an allowance, but all of them aren't looking for that. Some just want to spend time with someone that they get along with, can take them on nice dinners, go to events around the city, go on vacations. I do all of that anyway, so f I found one that was looking for that and I was attracted to, I'd definitely message her. But I don't get your hangup on "she wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the money." You wouldn't have gone out with her if she wasn't physically attractive. And you're not alone. You think Mick Jagger would've been a sex symbol if he wasn't a famous rock star? If he worked at a McDonalds he'd be just another guy. Seeking is transactional. All dating is transactional. A woman is going out with a guy to use something he has to benefit herself (and same for guys with women). Do you look at a pretty woman and say "oh wow she's has such a great personality." Hell no, you know nothing about her. You're attracted to something that has little to nothing to do with her character, and you feel if you could get her, that would reflect positively on your sexual value. Every single one I went out with wanted to be paid by the hour so no there was zero attraction there at all. I hope you have better experiences with it than I had. I get what you say but at the end of the day for me attraction is more than physical looks but I get why they are the be all and end all. Edited May 12, 2021 by ZA Dater
basil67 Posted May 12, 2021 Posted May 12, 2021 8 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Incorrect. I was talking about Seeking Arrangement whereby you need to pay the person to spend time with you, i.e. an hourly rate and that is before you buy dinner or anything else, its purely transactional dating nothing more and nothing less. You know the so called elites I apparently hang out with also like a waffle from a food truck......just saying Ah, so it was only the last sentence which was about actual dating. Gotcha. If those elites you hang out with also like a waffle from a food truck, why do you say things about women like they'd choose a someone with a Masserati over someone with a Mazda? Or they want Michelin over McD? Or being wowed by a helicopter ride. Pretty much everything you say about the women in the groups you hang out with comes back to money.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 13, 2021 Author Posted May 13, 2021 12 hours ago, basil67 said: Ah, so it was only the last sentence which was about actual dating. Gotcha. If those elites you hang out with also like a waffle from a food truck, why do you say things about women like they'd choose a someone with a Masserati over someone with a Mazda? Or they want Michelin over McD? Or being wowed by a helicopter ride. Pretty much everything you say about the women in the groups you hang out with comes back to money. Its not even groups, its OLD full stop.
basil67 Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: Its not even groups, its OLD full stop. So those rare guys who have Masseratis, dine at the top restaurants and can afford helicopter rides on a whim are on OLD? I would have thought they'd have women falling at their feet and have no need for that. Edited May 13, 2021 by basil67
sunny-daze Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 3:48 PM, ZA Dater said: After much encouragement and help from users here, against my better judgement I went on this date. Perhaps the one attractive match I had from Tinder in 5 odd years. Things looked good, she does not drink, she is into healthy living, is a life coach, models. We did not chat a lot before meeting up which I think helped and the location was great , small cafe near the ocean. My objective here was to try and do better bearing in mind the encouragement I received but I was also cautious because well I know these never end up with great outcomes. The date itself went well, for once I was complimented, asked questions and we chatted well. The downside is I realised I was never going to measure up to what she actually wanted, this is typical though so I took it on the chin. We got along well and the conversation went well, we have a few things in common, some beliefs in common and I did find her attractive which for me is rather rare. And so it was with a text this morning "I have come out of a relationship and not looking for anything and it was good meeting you and if you are OK with friends we could be friends". For me this basically just means there were not attraction, nobody goes onto Tinder to find friends, they go to find partners so this is just a nice way of rejecting me. Do I once again go down the useless friend road or do I just walk away? I think it's best to walk away from this. You're looking for a partner, not a friend. I think you could either choose to just leave things are they are, or send her a polite response in return telling her thank you for being honest, but you're not really looking for friendship and wish her all the best.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 13, 2021 Author Posted May 13, 2021 4 hours ago, sunny-daze said: I think it's best to walk away from this. You're looking for a partner, not a friend. I think you could either choose to just leave things are they are, or send her a polite response in return telling her thank you for being honest, but you're not really looking for friendship and wish her all the best. I simply told her cool lets be friends, knowing full well I'd never see or hear from her again and based on social media she and I are incompatible anyway, late night parties, again zero appeal to me so honestly I could not care less here. Hopefully I'll live another day and just jump into things I do enjoy doing on my own without the need to pander the wants of someone else who more importantly usually could not care about me at all. No thanks to the wise people here I think that use use try befriend cycle might have been broken and I am going to try stick to that.
Miss Spider Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) On 5/10/2021 at 4:37 PM, ZA Dater said: This was very unusual to get matched with her, she was definitely not the norm for me when it comes to matches. Far from it actually. I just went along, keen to try out some of what people here have been encouraging me to do, no expectations from my part because honestly I knew what would happen. For me reading here its become more and more apparent to me that maybe you cant just go and be yourself, you need to try maybe present something else, I went along asked questions, told stories of experiences I had, tried to get her to laugh, was relaxed but you know its like the lottery, you maybe get two number and its just not enough. Key I suppose is to just shrug it off and move on with life. I dunno what to work on so it will always be a case of luck and I get to choose how much I let it bother me so I do have some choice. Im glad you did at least try. And that you matched with someone you liked is promising. You’re right that dating can be a little bit like the lottery in that you have to cross paths with the right person(s) , then be able to have the right conversation, be in the right place in both of your lives etc etc. But the important thing here is that you tried. This is one of the first times you’ve implemented that advice. Interpersonal skills can take practice and time to build. You generally don’t go from having no sense of humor to being hilariously funny and charismatic in one date. & maybe your sense of humor just wasn’t her cup of tea. Anyway, glad you tried. Just try to be more optimistic. Edited May 13, 2021 by Cookiesandough
Sun Seeker Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I simply told her cool lets be friends Why did you say that? It seems you ignored everyone's advice again. All you did was show her you are a wet blanket with no backbone. Sure it doesn't really matter with her in particular as it was not going to go anywhere regardless of what you said, but at least for your own self improvement you could(should) have told her no thanks I'm not looking for a friend.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 13, 2021 Author Posted May 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, Cookiesandough said: Im glad you did at least try. And that you matched with someone you liked is promising. You’re right that dating can be a little bit like the lottery in that you have to cross paths with the right person(s) , then be able to have the right conversation, be in the right place in both of your lives etc etc. But the important thing here is that you tried. This is one of the first times you’ve implemented that advice. Interpersonal skills can take practice and time to build. You generally don’t go from having no sense of humor to being hilariously funny and charismatic in one date. & maybe your sense of humor just wasn’t her cup of tea. Anyway, glad you tried. Just try to be more optimistic. I have cut and paste pieces are various posts here which I read at the start of most days and that helps quite a lot, this was highly unusual because she was attractive and generally that happens maybe every 5 years or so at best. What did help here was she could talk about lots of things and this meant there was a conversation to be had. For me as odd as this may sound each one of these colours in a bit more of the picture of dating, I had the best parts of it with the window, of that I have no doubt but this coloured in a different part of the picture and I think if I see enough of the picture to see most of it, I could PROBABLY sort of live with leaving the picture at the gallery and not being too worried about taking it home. I do think it must be amazing to love someone, heck I became very attached to the window and her one year old, it was very difficult not having them around after spending so much time with them. I just think I need to be kinder to myself and with that means just accepting the reality.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 13, 2021 Author Posted May 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, Punterxx said: Why did you say that? It seems you ignored everyone's advice again. All you did was show her you are a wet blanket with no backbone. Sure it doesn't really matter with her in particular as it was not going to go anywhere regardless of what you said, but at least for your own self improvement you could(should) have told her no thanks I'm not looking for a friend. For the simply reason it was polite, what would have been accomplished getting into a whole squabble about this, I have enough different conflict to deal with on a daily basis, I do not particularly need something like this, an argument which is pretty senseless. She enjoys partying, I do not so it would never have worked anyway, she loves spending time with lots of people lots of the time, I do not really.
Miss Spider Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I have cut and paste pieces are various posts here which I read at the start of most days and that helps quite a lot, this was highly unusual because she was attractive and generally that happens maybe every 5 years or so at best. What did help here was she could talk about lots of things and this meant there was a conversation to be had. For me as odd as this may sound each one of these colours in a bit more of the picture of dating, I had the best parts of it with the window, of that I have no doubt but this coloured in a different part of the picture and I think if I see enough of the picture to see most of it, I could PROBABLY sort of live with leaving the picture at the gallery and not being too worried about taking it home. I do think it must be amazing to love someone, heck I became very attached to the window and her one year old, it was very difficult not having them around after spending so much time with them. I just think I need to be kinder to myself and with that means just accepting the reality. I get your analogy, but I’ve learned that there’s stuff that people are (generally) attracted to. Learn it, work on it, and become that, if you want to be successful at dating/relationships/love. If you don’t become what most people want, you can complain all day, but it’s not going to change the brutal reality of it which manifests in your inability to succeed at it 2
dramafreezone Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Cookiesandough said: I get your analogy, but I’ve learned that there’s stuff that people are (generally) attracted to. Learn it, work on it, and become that, if you want to be successful at dating/relationships/love. If you don’t become what most people want, you can complain all day, but it’s not going to change the brutal reality of it which manifests in your inability to succeed at it He doesn't want to change. We've been around and around on this topic. 1
Miss Spider Posted May 13, 2021 Posted May 13, 2021 Yea I’m well aware of it. I guess it was more advice for anyone else who may be reading the thread and could benefit from it
Author ZA Dater Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 8 hours ago, dramafreezone said: He doesn't want to change. We've been around and around on this topic. Why should I change to be unhappy. I am actually quite happy with the person I am, the beliefs I have and the approach I take to life. I have been down this so called change road before and the result was I felt even more of a misfit, even less confidence, even less attractive and for what? The very remote chance that brunette in the coffee shop might suddenly like me because I am now wearing jeans (which I hate)? Ask yourself, is that not a pretty ridiculous way to live, to live on the hopes of what other might find attractive at the expense of not actually feeling attractive? I simply refuse to pander to becoming another person in a crowd. If people walk left, I walk right. People find comfort in crowds, I do not. Because everyone goes to a bar, does not mean they all actually want to be there, why go somewhere you do not want to be? Because everyone else is? Sounds ridiculous to me. I am not going to go out, do things I do not enjoy, pretend to be someone I am not, go to places I do not like in the HOPE that someone will find me attractive when I already know they will not. Its my own fault I am unattractive because heck I just grew up thinking manners and those sort of things counted for nothing, turns out wallet, fun and good looks count for me. As they say at least window shopping is free!
basil67 Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: I simply refuse to pander to becoming another person in a crowd. If people walk left, I walk right. People find comfort in crowds, I do not. Because everyone goes to a bar, does not mean they all actually want to be there, why go somewhere you do not want to be? Because everyone else is? Sounds ridiculous to me. Some of this is the flexibility required to maintain friendships. If one has a friend who they value and the friend has a birthday event at a bar, it's good manners to attend. Might not stay till midnight, but we give it a crack because we want to be there for them. Likewise, if you want to celebrate your birthday having Sunday brunch at a Chinese Dim Sum restaurant your friends will stretch themselves to steamed dumplings and green tea. If we refuse to do all the things we aren't interested in, we end up with no friends. 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, basil67 said: Some of this is the flexibility required to maintain friendships. If one has a friend who they value and the friend has a birthday event at a bar, it's good manners to attend. Might not stay till midnight, but we give it a crack because we want to be there for them. Likewise, if you want to celebrate your birthday having Sunday brunch at a Chinese Dim Sum restaurant your friends will stretch themselves to steamed dumplings and green tea. If we refuse to do all the things we aren't interested in, we end up with no friends. That is completely different. It would be me going to a place to support a friend, instead of going there to try and find friends/gf. I have been to tons of places and parties I really did not enjoy just to support a friend. Never found any of them enjoyable but went anyway. I have few friends so I suppose that explains a lot haha. I think even the friends I do have are more associates than friends anyway, I doubt many would care particularly if I fell of the planet tomorrow.
elaine567 Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 OK so I see now after that rant, that you are a confirmed bachelor. You are so inflexible and rigid and stuck in your ways, that meeting anyone or more importantly perhaps keeping anyone is going to be impossible. You are in essence "The Grinch^". - you hate to see anyone enjoying themselves, so you are stuck on the sidelines miserable, yet you try to convince yourself that you are happy the way you are. Somehow it is noble and "right" to be walking to the right, away from everyone else walking on the left... The world has apparently rejected you, so you now reject the world... Great! How is that working for you? * watch the movie. I like the Jim Carrey version.BTW do you ever watch movies? 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: OK so I see now after that rant, that you are a confirmed bachelor. You are so inflexible and rigid and stuck in your ways, that meeting anyone or more importantly perhaps keeping anyone is going to be impossible. You are in essence "The Grinch^". - you hate to see anyone enjoying themselves, so you are stuck on the sidelines miserable, yet you try to convince yourself that you are happy the way you are. Somehow it is noble and "right" to be walking to the right, away from everyone else walking on the left... The world has apparently rejected you, so you now reject the world... Great! How is that working for you? * watch the movie. I like the Jim Carrey version.BTW do you ever watch movies? Yes I watch movies but never comedies. Why honestly must I buckle over when nobody ever bothers to do it for me? Its completely nonsensical to do so. I have no issue with people enjoying themselves, heck there are things I enjoy too. Sitting in bars and clubs are not on my list though. Everyone says you can make yourself happy and should not actually need anyone else in your life, has that not been said countless number of times here or it just another of those, "make the person feel better" phrases. The way I see it we can decide to be happy or decide not to be. Will I ever accomplish the dating outcomes I want, yeah very unlikely in any conventional sense really. I have a good idea how the game works now and am less inclined to walk onto the field again because the one thing I learnt that maybe trumps a lot is MARKETING. If you can have someone a friend REALLY market you then you have a FAR better chance. For me it boils down to needs versus wants. Do I need someone to go on holiday with, not really because I'd rather have no holiday than go alone, if I have no holiday I have less time to feel lonely and if I have less time to feel lonely I can feel quite ok about the outcomes I have.
jspice Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, ZA Dater said: Yes I watch movies but never comedies. I, for one, am shocked at this revelation. You’re absolutely joyless and you want somebody to want to be around your joyless self and like it. If she dares to have fun in a way you deem inappropriate she’ll be so harshly judged for “conforming”. You elevated the widow who was so obviously using you because she was “beautiful” but you talk s*** about average women grinding for themselves and their kids. You really deserve what you get. For real. I’m glad we’re all on the same page regarding your dating life. don’t date. Settled. As for why she went out with you... she’s a life coach. She probably saw a paid project, hence the offer of friendship.
chillii Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 l dunno how you could poss' be shocked za doesn't like comedies .
Gaeta Posted May 14, 2021 Posted May 14, 2021 Don't you know that the secret of seduction is humor? I think you would benefit from the release of endorphine that laughing generates. 2
Author ZA Dater Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 6 hours ago, jspice said: I, for one, am shocked at this revelation. You’re absolutely joyless and you want somebody to want to be around your joyless self and like it. If she dares to have fun in a way you deem inappropriate she’ll be so harshly judged for “conforming”. You elevated the widow who was so obviously using you because she was “beautiful” but you talk s*** about average women grinding for themselves and their kids. You really deserve what you get. For real. I’m glad we’re all on the same page regarding your dating life. don’t date. Settled. As for why she went out with you... she’s a life coach. She probably saw a paid project, hence the offer of friendship. You always say such nice things. However you once again read incorrectly, I have no issue with what people find find and what they do for fun, does not mean I have to partake, they wont find what I find fun either so. If someone wants to drink and party and go out, that's cool with me but but then do not critique me because I do not enjoy those things. Everyone uses everyone else to lesser or greater degrees. Just in this thread I have been told that dating is bought so there is that too. Not sure where the average women with kids comment comes from because I do not recall typing that, it would be true that most single mothers do not interest me for a multitude of reasons. Once again thanks you for saying such nice things, compliments accepted.
Author ZA Dater Posted May 14, 2021 Author Posted May 14, 2021 5 hours ago, elaine567 said: So no Rom-coms either? Does Pretty Women count? I actually used to watch a few rom coms but stopped when I realised they were actually garbage so far removed from reality to render them completely meaningless. Sure, I love a "he is a nerd, she is a cheerleader" but honestly this never happens in practice or very seldom. Perhaps a better plot would be something like Leaving Las Vegas, that's probably a better representation.
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