What is normal communication between dates in early stages of dating?

[hippychick3]

4 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Here is my thought & experience on that. 

To seek a romantic partner we need our 'edge'. We need our desire to mate on the high. For women it's what makes us become seductress when we're on dates and it's what attracts men toward us. If you have your sexual need met by a lover you're losing that edge when you out looking for a man. Think of it as feeding a lion before sending him to chase, how motivated you think he'll be if his belly is full. 

My opinion is if you keep this man as a lover you will go out on dates with other men while your belly full and because of that you won't connec with anyone else. 

Not long ago you had 3 prospects. That tells me you are a woman that has no difficulty attracting dates. 

Don't you think that the person you are, your heart, mind and body don't deserve more and the crumbs he's able to throw at you?

This is very true. OP, you’re already getting attached to this man. Until you fully let go and walk away, no other man will meet your needs or be enough for you. 

[BaileyB]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Tripping instead of appropriate mental health care

This to me being one of the biggest. 

I was so hoping psychedelic therapy was some kind of legit new-age therapy that I hadn’t heard of... 

Drug use/mushrooms would be an absolute deal breaker for me.

I know, you said he is “eccentric” and that obviously appeals to you. Just, be careful here. 

[Gaeta]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I was so hoping psychedelic therapy was some kind of legit new-age therapy that I hadn’t heard of... 

Drug use/mushrooms would be an absolute deal breaker for me.

I thought @Wiseman2 was making a joke about the mushrooms. 

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I thought @Wiseman2 was making a joke about the mushrooms. 

Quote

In the meantime, he would also like me to participate to one of his psychedelic sessions so that we can get to know each other better.

 

Quote

As for the mushroom thing, I already said no to that. Definitely would only do that with someone I fully trust and that might not disappear from my life shortly after. 

I’m confused. Is this a therapy thing? Is he using mushrooms for recreation? Sorry - perhaps I misunderstood. 
 

 

 

[poppyfields]

@DatingMomI'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but all his talk about "what if I want to have coffee with a female co-worker?" and "wouldn't you be jealous"? and suggesting you start seeing other men translates to he's either currently got something going on with his co-worker (or another woman) or is planning to. 

It's clear at least to me he is operating with a hidden agenda (another woman most likely); he's leaving clues for you to figure out and attempting to manage your expectations so you don't start thinking what you've developed means more than it does.. .which in his eyes is temporary and casual. 

It's a distance mechanism and again given you are seeking an exclusive committed relationship, I do not suggest hanging around hoping he "comes around" or whatever you're thinking.

He won't respect you, in fact your willingness to accept so little may result in him feeling turned off or worse repelled.

Think more highly of yourself, wish him well and WALK.

I'm sorry and wish you luck moving forward, ideally without him.

Edited May 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, BaileyB said:

I’m confused. Is this a therapy thing? Is he using mushrooms for recreation? Sorry - perhaps I misunderstood. 

Both: 

"When fully developed, the NYU Langone Center for Psychedelic Medicine, under the auspices of NYU Langone’s Department of Psychiatry, will support health-focused research across the translational spectrum, from basic science to phase III clinical trials. Principally, it will have three transdisciplinary areas of focus: psychiatry, medicine, and preclinical research."

This however is clinical trials, not an approved/proven application. Just like LSD, etc. was originally (believe it or not) developed to treat various psychotic symptoms.

Then there is Ayahuasca:

"Traditionally, a shaman or curandero — an experienced healer leads Ayahuasca ceremonies"

Then of course there are shrooms, etc. for partying, but that does not seem to be what he is alluding to.

[Alpacalia]

He wants to do mushrooms to "get to know each other better."

Maybe churn some butter. 

[poppyfields]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:19 AM, DatingMom said:

So yesterday he said that he really wanted a long term relationship with me, but that he felt too broken at the moment to enter any kind of relationship. He doesn't want to commit to someone when he knows he still has such a long way to go to heal himself. He said: "I want to be whole and fully available when that happens because I want to put all the energy I have into making you happy. But right now, I barely have enough energy for my various therapy sessions, and my healing process. I need to be selfish on this journey so that I can heal properly and be ready for the kind of relationship that I want. I feel it would be selfish and unfair to you to keep you around and not give you enough, and make you unhappy." We talked a long time about how this statement made each of us feel. 

Then he said that he's not possessive, and if I were ok continuing to see each other whenever possible, he would be happy if I dated other men, considered other options. He said that he cares so much about me that it would make him happy to see me happy...

May I be blunt?  This entire snippet^^ may be the biggest load of **** I've heard in while, I'm sorry to say that.

A mixed double message if I ever heard one! 

Any time a man says "I want a relationship with you... BUT"  stop him right there and politely excuse yourself.

It will save you from being forced to listen to all the inane BS that will undoubtedly follow.

I mean suggesting you date other men and keep your options open because he cares so much about you and wants you to be happy? 

Was he being serious with that? 

I know it's difficult for you to view this with clear eyes, I've been there too. 

But lord it's just so clear to me and everyone else that this is NOT a good or healthy situation for you and if you insist on being "patient and understanding" this is not going to end well for you.

Again, I'm truly sorry.  

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[Miss Spider]

Tbf , shrooms are things I’ve done in the past with people I didn’t feel a connection with, in hopes that the trip would enhance that or just because I was really bored 

[Wiseman2]

39 minutes ago, Alpaca said:

He wants to do mushrooms to "get to know each other better." Maybe churn some butter. 

Agree butter churning is a well known bonding experience.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Wiseman2

[poppyfields]

xxx

Edited May 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[poppyfields]

@Wiseman2  you mean this?

The Butter Churn

A polygamous sex act in which a women lies on her shoulders with her legs up in the air spread at about 90 degrees. One man stands perpendicular to her and between her legs, and positions his penis straight down into her vagina. Two other men (or women if they have the upper body strength) stand on either side and hold on to the woman's ankles. They then pull her up and down onto the man's penis, using her legs just like the handle on a butter churn.

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by poppyfields

[Alpacalia]

33 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree butter churning is a well known bonding experience.

Well, one has to think big, and buttery with this kind of thing.

[Dis]

14 hours ago, DatingMom said:

I'm trying to figure out if I could continue seeing him as a lover and nothing more while exploring other options, without that making me upset (I'm not sure that's possible), or staying friends with him with no sex until he makes up his mind, or if the only solution is walking away and moving on with the possibility he'll be back.

It's usually not possible to move backwards in a relationship once you develop feelings...for men and women

 

I think your best bet is to call a spade a spade.... you two have different goals and intentions that don't align with one another. Nothing will change that and you stepping back probably won't clear that up on your end because there's feelings involved

 

My vote is to cut the cord. But you do what's best for you and best of luck with everything xoxo 

[DatingMom]

22 hours ago, BaileyB said:

 

I’m confused. Is this a therapy thing? Is he using mushrooms for recreation? Sorry - perhaps I misunderstood. 
 

 

 

This is a therapy thing, yes. He is doing psychedelic therapy sessions in the presence of a certified psychotherapist. It's a new kind of therapy to deal with childhood trauma that might be too far away for memory to access properly. I guess it goes in the category of hypnosis to quit smoking for example. It's just another way to access your psyche and past memories. The things that come up during those psychedelic sessions he then processes in real therapy with another therapist. It's not a tripping thing. He's actually quite the opposite of an addict: he doesn't do any drugs outside of these types of sessions, doesn't even drink alcohol, doesn't smoke. 

Anyway, you guys might disagree with this kind of therapy, but it is something that entirely legal and proven to work. 

[Gaeta]

It's a new kind of therapy to deal with childhood trauma that might be too far away for memory to access properly.

Sorry for my ignorance but if you have childhood trauma that you don't remember why would you want to remember it? If the brain doesn't remember it's because it's equiped with a protective wall made exactly for us to not remember, it's a survival mechanism. What I heard of those seances is that you can actually create false memories based on things your heard your family say or things you've imagined yourself. 

To me sounds like this man is looking into finding himself more problems than fixing those he has already. 

[Alpacalia]

There's no reason for you to be doing therapy sessions with him of any kind.

[DatingMom]

18 hours ago, poppyfields said:

@DatingMomI'm surprised no one has mentioned this, but all his talk about "what if I want to have coffee with a female co-worker?" and "wouldn't you be jealous"? and suggesting you start seeing other men translates to he's either currently got something going on with his co-worker (or another woman) or is planning to. 

It's clear at least to me he is operating with a hidden agenda (another woman most likely); he's leaving clues for you to figure out and attempting to manage your expectations so you don't start thinking what you've developed means more than it does.. .which in his eyes is temporary and casual. 

I'm gonna address my overall thoughts in a minute, but just wanted to address some of the questions/concerns here first.

I'm 100% certain that this is not what is going on here. I see how from your perspective it could seem this way, but I know that's not it. There are quite a few red flags here, I completely agree with that, and the guy has many flaws for sure, but I really really doubt that lying and dishonesty is one of them, quite the opposite! He's too honest! If there were someone else, he would have told me about it. I'm 100% certain of that. 

So, two things are going on here:

1) This I have experienced myself shortly my separation (more like 3-4 months after my separation, but I guess everyone has a different timeframe after a separation do deal with things. In his case, my 2-3 months might be more like 1-2 years). 3-4 after my separation, I decided to try online dating (a friend encouraged me), and I was so sure I was ready for this. The first person I went on a date with was this very handsome super cool German filmmaker. We hit it off right away. 4-5 dates later, he alluded to something like he finally found the one, that made my go into panic mode. I realized that although he was amazing, and I would love to have a long term relationship with this person, I didn't want it right now. After 18 years of marriage, I just wanted to have different experiences, meet other people, sleep with other people. I was honest with him and explained that I wasn't ready to be exclusive, but would be happy to keep seeing him and see where it goes. He was not ok with that, with the "multiple partner thing" as he put it, although that's not really how I saw it (but I got his point). He didn't want to see me anymore, which was disappointing because 4 months later I had gotten it out of my system, and I was ready for something more serious. Timing is key. So, I think in some ways this is where he is at. He doesn't have other people on the side right now, but the idea of committing to one person again so soon after the end of his 20-year marriage feels overwhelming. 

2) He is dealing with a lot of other stuff. He's had a very difficult childhood (alcoholic violent father, bi-polar mother), and then was in a relationship for 20 years with a woman that also had mental issues (he realizes now that he was with her because he didn't know any better, that was what was familiar). Anyway, the last two years of his marriage, he started having severe pain, and doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong. Finally, one doctor suggested it might be psychosomatic because of his bad relationship with his ex as well as past trauma that he never dealt with. This is when he went on this journey of therapy and healing, as well as leaving his wife. He's told me pretty much every story of his childhood, and I see how much he has to deal with and heal from. And I think the therapy is brining up a lot of past pain and it's overwhelming. So, I see how right now he's in a place where he needs to focus on healing himself and doesn't really have the capacity to put much energy into a relationship.

 

[hippychick3]

22 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

This is a therapy thing, yes. He is doing psychedelic therapy sessions in the presence of a certified psychotherapist. It's a new kind of therapy to deal with childhood trauma that might be too far away for memory to access properly. I guess it goes in the category of hypnosis to quit smoking for example. It's just another way to access your psyche and past memories. The things that come up during those psychedelic sessions he then processes in real therapy with another therapist. It's not a tripping thing. He's actually quite the opposite of an addict: he doesn't do any drugs outside of these types of sessions, doesn't even drink alcohol, doesn't smoke. 

Anyway, you guys might disagree with this kind of therapy, but it is something that entirely legal and proven to work. 

If you’re going to do this, do not do it with this guy. It’s only going to deepen the bond and attachment that YOU feel (not him). This is a really bad idea for your mental and emotional health.  

[DatingMom]

14 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

It's a new kind of therapy to deal with childhood trauma that might be too far away for memory to access properly.

Sorry for my ignorance but if you have childhood trauma that you don't remember why would you want to remember it? If the brain doesn't remember it's because it's equiped with a protective wall made exactly for us to not remember, it's a survival mechanism. What I heard of those seances is that you can actually create false memories based on things your heard your family say or things you've imagined yourself. 

To me sounds like this man is looking into finding himself more problems than fixing those he has already. 

As I just explained, he is doing this to deal with pain that he has suffered from in the past years that is apparently psychosomatic and linked to past trauma. I think he was fine not dealing with it before.

[DatingMom]

23 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Here is my thought & experience on that. 

To seek a romantic partner we need our 'edge'. We need our desire to mate on the high. For women it's what makes us become seductress when we're on dates and it's what attracts men toward us. If you have your sexual need met by a lover you're losing that edge when you out looking for a man. Think of it as feeding a lion before sending him to chase, how motivated you think he'll be if his belly is full. 

My opinion is if you keep this man as a lover you will go out on dates with other men while your belly full and because of that you won't connec with anyone else. 

Not long ago you had 3 prospects. That tells me you are a woman that has no difficulty attracting dates. 

Don't you think that the person you are, your heart, mind and body don't deserve more and the crumbs he's able to throw at you?

I disagree with this actually. For myself in any case. Perhaps this is true for some people, but that's not me. For the last 2.5 years, I have had a FWB on/off (obviously not while I was in a committed relationship, but while dating). He is someone I had met through work ages ago, and after my separation we had a short fling, shortly before I met the guy I dated for a longer period of time. At the time of the fling, I was hoping for more, but he had broken up with this woman he had been seeing for 9 months shortly before, and wasn't really over her. So, I started dating this other guy, and we remained friends. When my relationship ended and we saw each other again, we started sleeping together. We talked about it honestly and agreed that this was a FWB arrangement to help with sexual needs while we were looking for something more serious with someone else. Sleeping with this guy regularly did not in any way affect my success in the dating world because I was still looking for an emotional connection. Incidentally the arrangement ended in January when he suddenly told me he had developed feelings for me and wanted to take this to another level. I didn't feel the same way about him, so that came to a natural end. 

What I'm saying is (and I'm not saying that this will be my decision), that I know I can have a "lover" while also dating others. I have become attached to this guy, but I'm not anywhere near falling in love with him. I'm trying to figure out for myself if I would be able to be ok with this being a casual thing for now, and be truly ok with it in my heart. This of course would mean that I would have to take a few steps back, and close off certain parts of myself to leave room for others. I know I am able to be physical with someone on a regular basis without developing feelings, I'm just not 100% sure yet if I would be able to with this guy. I need to give myself a bit more time to think about it. I feel going on a few dates with other men might give me clarity (I'm already working on the other dates: I have one set up for Thursday this week!). 

I know myself, and I know that I am emotionally in a good place right now. I feel very stable emotionally. I am not needy or in a rush. I will not fall apart at the drop of a hat. I feel open to possibilities and accept that in some ways things will happen when they happen, that I have little control over this, and that me rushing or trying to force things will not make things happen. So, I'm approaching the idea of romance and relationships with a zen attitude. I want to go with the flow and accept that if things are meant to be they will happen, and if they don't happen they were not meant to be. 

 

[DatingMom]

19 minutes ago, hippychick3 said:

If you’re going to do this, do not do it with this guy. It’s only going to deepen the bond and attachment that YOU feel (not him). This is a really bad idea for your mental and emotional health.  

I completely agree with you on this, and I already told him that there is no way I would do this with someone that is not officially my partner. I just explained that for me to share this type of experience with someone I need to trust that person. And that for me trust comes with the definition of a relationship. Since there is no definition, there is also no trust, and therefore I cannot do this with him. He understood. 

[Gaeta]

33 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

I'm 100% certain that this is not what is going on here.

You have known this man for 9 weeks. Here you are claiming you know him and defending him. You see what he wants to show you, that's all. My ex of 5 years was able to hide his secret life from me, how easy do you think it is to hide a secret life from a woman he's seen 9 weeks. 

That reminds me of when I discovered my ex's cheating and I called these women. One of them didn't beleive me, she was defending my ex she had met 3 weeks prior!! In her eyes it was impossible that the man she had  been seeing for 3 weeks was a liar and a cheat! because he came across as so kind and sincere. Right now you remind me of that woman. 

[DatingMom]

10 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You have known this man for 9 weeks. Here you are claiming you know him and defending him. You see what he wants to show you, that's all. My ex of 5 years was able to hide his secret life from me, how easy do you think it is to hide a secret life from a woman he's seen 9 weeks. 

That reminds me of when I discovered my ex's cheating and I called these women. One of them didn't beleive me, she was defending my ex she had met 3 weeks prior!! In her eyes it was impossible that the man she had  been seeing for 3 weeks was a liar and a cheat! because he came across as so kind and sincere. Right now you remind me of that woman. 

You're right. I completely agree with you. Let me rephrase this: I'm 100% sure that he is not sleeping with anyone else, and that he will not have multiple sexual partners. I say this because I don't think he would physically be able to. It was difficult for him to get physically comfortable with me, and it's only when we had a deeper connection that he was able to have an orgasm while having sex with me. So in this sense I doubt that he'd be able to sleep with more than one person at a time, and even less have one-night stands. But you are right that there might be some work colleague that he has an eye on and that he's not telling me about. I doubt it, but it's not impossible. 

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You have known this man for 9 weeks. Here you are claiming you know him and defending him.

I was just going to say the same. 

For a little perspective, two weeks ago you posted - you said that you had known the man for six weeks and you have been on weekly dates. Again, kindly, I think you are in deep here with a man that you hardly know. At this early stage of a relationship - when you see red flags, you get out! 

Edited May 17, 2021 by BaileyB