What is normal communication between dates in early stages of dating?

[DatingMom]

For the ones that had followed by previous post on "dating confusion", I finally decided to give the local (guy #2) a go. 

I met this guy about 6 weeks ago. When we met, I was also dating two other people at the same time, and it's only since the last two weeks that things have become a bit more serious, in the sense that we have been seeing each other on a weekly basis, and I haven't really dated anyone else during those weeks either (although I'm still in communications with a couple people, that I might perhaps decide to meet).

We got along great from the start. He is definitely a bit on the eccentric side, and seems to have had a difficult life, but he is very open and self-aware, and actively working on dealing with the issues in his past that still affect him to a certain level today. I do like his openness and ease of communications. He's very sweet and honest about his feelings, which I like a lot.

He is someone that is quite successful. He's an engineer and is managing a pretty big company that he founded. Despite that, interestingly enough, he seemed almost a bit shy or uncertain on our first few dates. I think he was really into me from the start, and the first time we had sex he seemed kind of stressed and I asked him what was wrong, and he said he was afraid of falling in love again. This was on our second date about 5 weeks ago. 

The first few weeks, he was texting me and calling me very frequently in-between dates. Since I was considering other people at the time, it was almost a bit overwhelming! But then this thing happened as I realized, getting to know him better,  that I liked him surprisingly a lot: he became more distant... in-between dates. When we are together, he is absolutely amazing. We get along really really well. We have intense deep conversations about everything, and I feel that he is comfortable being vulnerable with me and telling me difficult things about his life. As I had mentioned, he was a bit nervous sexually in the beginning, and that is something that we also have been able to discuss quite openly. I know he is really busy with work (he seems to be working 24/7), but when he's with me, he won't answer his phone, or he'll check his messages quickly, maybe make a quick 5 minutes phone call, but he is present. So, absolutely no complaints on the date quality front. It's fantastic!

However, since a few weeks, basically since I decided that I really like this guy and would like to give this a go, and that we have been seeing each other a bit more regularly, he's been less communicative in-between dates.  He never seems to find time for a phone call between dates, and he barely ever texts. If I text him, he'll send a quick reply within a few hours, but he rarely engages in a conversation (we used to have long text conversations).

All that to say that I am just slightly confused about this since he seemed so into me before. And I guess I'm also a little worried that he maybe has doubts? (of course now that I've decided that I wanted to give this a try! Classic!).

Am I worrying for no reason, or is this a red flag?

 

[wanderingthoughts11]

i think at this point you have known him long enough to ask him what is going on and where sees the two of y'all etc etc

[salparadise]

47 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

now that I've decided... is this a red flag?

Yea, it would be for me. It's one of the things I hate most about trying to date as an older adult. As someone posted in another thread, "it's such a game of cat and mouse." He probably realizes that it's not about him at all... he just happens to be the man of the hour, and next hour someone more fun or more successful may show up. So now he's giving you a chance to show him if there's any depth there.

Surely you don't actually expect him to keep up the texting and wooing and high speed pursuit indefinitely, do you? You held him at arm's length because you were doing several other men, then you give him a glance and expect him to chase like a teenager in heat? Nah, I think he's ahead of you, he knows your moves. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by salparadise

[DatingMom]

@salparadise What makes you think that he thinks that? I don't feel that there is anything in my behaviour that would give him that impression. I was throughout the entire time we've know each other very available and communicative. I was even the one that frequently would suggest dates or phone calls, or initiate texting. And I didn't tell him I was dating around. In fact, that wasn't really the case. It just happened by some strange circumstances that I had the option of three guys. But I wouldn't call myself a serial dater. Also, I am looking for something long term and serious. I am talking to some other people simply to protect myself from disappointment. I'd be very happy if he asked for exclusivity. 

[ShyViolet]

I've been a dating person for about 20 years and I've had my share of relationships.  In every single relationship I've been in, every single one, there would be some type of daily communication in between dates; whether it is a nightly phone call, or a few texts.  If you are barely hearing from this guy anymore in between dates, that is weird.  It suggests low interest or maybe he's pulling away.

[DatingMom]

@ShyViolet if I text him, he will usually reply within a reasonable time-frame. And I will check in with him about once a day, so in that sense I do hear from him daily. But he doesn't really initiate texts. I know some guys are not into texting. I also know he's quite busy and works weird hours. But it's just such a contrast to our interactions when we are together where he seems to want to connect at a very deep level. And it just seems to me it's not really that much effort to just send a little message here and there to check in, wrong?

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, DatingMom said:

  If I text him, he'll send a quick reply within a few hours, but he rarely engages in a conversation (we used to have long text conversations).

Sounds like it's going well and he's more comfortable with you so text chitchatting is less important than in person interactions.

This is psychedelic guy?🍄

As long as you are seeing each other regularly and are happy, there are no red flags.

[Goodguy05]

I'll take a guess and say at first he texted alot to get you and now that he has the reality has kicked in with his work. You said he's quiet busy I'd say that's probably it. Nothing to be concerned about I think 

[DatingMom]

@Wiseman2 yes, psychedelic guy! haha

@Goodguy05 The thing is that this bothers me quite a bit. I'll feel so connected to him after a date, and then the lack of communication during the week kind of undoes everything that was created at the last date. And when the next date rolls around, for the first hour I feel like we're on a first date again. Interestingly, he mentioned last time that we saw each other that he feels like I have a wall up every time we meet again. I was thinking about that, and in all honesty, I think it's caused by this lack of communication between dates. I suddenly don't feel the connection that we had at the last date, and when we meet he feels a bit like a stranger. I feel like I never know where I stand. It's kind of nerve-wrecking. 

I thought about bringing it up, but also don't want to seem like I'm suddenly becoming demanding or clingy. I do realize that men have those stereotypes about women, which I think are a bit unfair. We just like communicating! 

[d0nnivain]

He's a busy business owner who is trying to run a company and date. That is a tall order. 

You are upset because the frequency seems to have diminished.  I understand it from both sides.  Since you are now more invested in this relationship you want more contact.  To him, he's already sold you so you he doesn't have to work has hard.  You are the person he's dating.  He can put that energy into something else.  It's a sales adage:  it takes more work to get a new customer then service an existing customer.  You now know what you are getting with him; the dates are fun.  He doesn't have to work as hard to get you to agree to go on the dates.  It doesn't make you less valuable; you just feel that way.  

Speak to him in his language.  Any product / investment / relationship needs on-going customer service & routine maintenance.  In a relationship for you, that means you want more phone calls initiated by him than you are getting.   You can't use those words but you do have to give him a concrete plan of what you want him to do.  Don't be afraid to ask him to call you once per week between dates & talk for 15 minutes.  If you are specific in what you want, you will get it. If you are vague & just say something like I want more, you will be dumped as too needy / clingy / vague or something.  

[ShyViolet]

Sometimes guys can be really dense and honestly just not know what women want.  You should let him know that you really enjoy spending time together but you'd like to hear from him in between those dates.... either a brief nightly phone call to say hi, or at least a couple of texts.  Don't be all heavy and clingy about it, just casually mention it.  He might have genuinely just not known that you feel this way.  Whether or not you see a change in his behavior after this will say a lot.

[Goodguy05]

17 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

@Wiseman2 yes, psychedelic guy! haha

@Goodguy05 The thing is that this bothers me quite a bit. I'll feel so connected to him after a date, and then the lack of communication during the week kind of undoes everything that was created at the last date. And when the next date rolls around, for the first hour I feel like we're on a first date again. Interestingly, he mentioned last time that we saw each other that he feels like I have a wall up every time we meet again. I was thinking about that, and in all honesty, I think it's caused by this lack of communication between dates. I suddenly don't feel the connection that we had at the last date, and when we meet he feels a bit like a stranger. I feel like I never know where I stand. It's kind of nerve-wrecking. 

I thought about bringing it up, but also don't want to seem like I'm suddenly becoming demanding or clingy. I do realize that men have those stereotypes about women, which I think are a bit unfair. We just like communicating! 

Yep ain't that the truth re woman communicating. I learnt that the hard way haha. I remember my ex always wanting to talk her way through watching a movie lol. I think men are so single minded and focused it's just our awareness it is different to a woman's and we do it to get the task done to focus and block everything else out. I'm pretty sure that's what's happening here and yes I get your hesitancy to bring it up. Maybe there's a gentle way of bringing it to his attention without seeming clingy or needy ☺️👌. Here's a tip, if you can deliver how you feel to him without making him feel criticized or wrong your a winner chicken dinner☺️ that's the trick believe me he will then become aware and accommodate 

[Gaeta]

Why don't you start a habit of calling him for 10-15 mins on Wednesday nights? You 2 are equal partners in this relationship. You need a mid-week phone call, make it. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Yeah, it's worth prompting him, calling him.

But drop the "what's the normal" communication frequency. That's a ridiculous question. The only question is ... how much communication do YOU want and prefer? 

Yes, this guy going distant and quiet is alarming, is a red flag. Might be time for the "I enjoy talking to you. I'd like to talk more between dates." Look, that's the truth and you aren't getting anywhere suppressing your dissatisfaction. Give him a chance to step up or not. 

I don't buy that "busy" blocks someone from texting or calling in between dates. I don't. As someone who would suddenly go cold on women, my suspicion is always that this is a sign of immaturity and emotional confusion and fear. But that problem isn't quickly fixable. So yes, I think this is a red flag. 

Now, you've made it clear that you've been enjoying the dates? Assuming the answer is yes (I really do assume that) he needs to act like he wants to date. If he doesn't in a couple of weeks, dump his behind. There is deeper emotional trouble below this kind of behavior. Busyness ain't it.

[DatingMom]

Thanks for all the feedback, although somewhat contradictory! I have been really enjoying myself when we are together. And I think what is most confusing is that he is SO communicative when we are together, and seems quite interested. I'm always surprised how he'll suddenly bring up something I told him weeks ago, a small detail that I didn't think he would remember. He is clearly paying attention somehow. And he will text randomly here and there. Like tonight he texted me "how did you interview go?" - I don't even remember telling him I had an interview today. But then he does this frustrating thing where I will reply to his text, and then I don't get an answer to my reply for hours, or even until the next day. Drives me crazy!

I do realize of course that texting a lot doesn't necessarily mean anything either. I've been in situations twice within the last 10 months where I met guys that were texting me night and day, all sorts of things, sending me songs that they liked, texting me good morning and good night. But otherwise, would find very little time to meet in person. One guy wouldn't be available to meet more than once every three weeks, and he wasn't out of the city or country! I finally realized in both situations that they were perhaps just lonely or bored, and that the texting for them filled a void, but that otherwise they were not necessarily available to date. 

All that being said, I think at this point in the process of getting to know this guy, I think for me going forward (in a way that would not make me constantly feel frustrated), I would need him, within the next few weeks, to either communicate more between dates if he's only available to meet once a week, OR to start seeing each other twice a week. Is that a reasonable thing to ask for? I'm thinking perhaps better to bring it up in person next time I see him?

[Gaeta]

wrong thread

Edited May 4, 2021 by Gaeta

[d0nnivain]

11 hours ago, DatingMom said:

I think for me going forward (in a way that would not make me constantly feel frustrated), I would need him, within the next few weeks, to either communicate more between dates if he's only available to meet once a week, OR to start seeing each other twice a week. Is that a reasonable thing to ask for? I'm thinking perhaps better to bring it up in person next time I see him?

Yes those are reasonable things to ASK for. 

What would not be reasonable is for you to sit there silently & wait for him to make this change you want without actually telling him what you expect  You can't treat him like a mind reader then get mad when he doesn't do what you were thinking but never expressed.  That would be an unfair s***-test.  Don't do that.  Communicate.  

It's absolutely OK to spell out what you want as long as it's not unreasonable (you want him to quit his job & sit next to you holding your hand forever).   It's trivial but when DH & I first got together it made me nuts that when he would give me a card all he did was sign his name at the bottom.  No date on the card; no Dear D0nnivain, no love him. . . just his name.  Finally I said to him you need to write cards out correctly & explained the above to him.  He thought I was a bit batty but he did it.  Viola problem solved.  So speak up!

[BaileyB]

To clarify, it’s been six weeks. Things got more serious two weeks ago. Is he still seeing other women? And, you see each other once a week at this point. Is that correct? 

[DatingMom]

@BaileyB yes, that is correct, things got more serious two weeks ago. And yes, we see each other once a week. I don't think that at this point between his schedule with his daughter and my schedule with my kids + work responsibilities, that more would be possible. Maybe a day and a half at some point (if he sleeps over Friday and we spend part of Saturday together. So far, he has been leaving early morning on Saturday).

I don't know if he's seeing other women or not. I remember after our first few dates, I noticed that I could see that he was still active on the dating app, and which point I decided to unmatch him because I hated that I noticed and I didn't want that to bother me. I feel that he doesn't have enough time to date anyone else, but I might be wrong. Isn't it a bit too early to bring this up?

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, DatingMom said:

I don't know if he's seeing other women or not.

This is definitely an important detail. 

He’s obviously not going to have time to talk with you if he is busy with other women. 

It sounds to me like you have moved into “relationship expectations” but you have not actually clarified with the man whether he is still dating others or whether he wants to be in an exclusive relationship with you. 

I would not be expecting anything in terms of communication if he is still seeing other people. I also wouldn’t be having sex with the man if he is still dating other women. I think, after six weeks and I would assume six dates, it’s time to have that discussion. 

It doesn’t have to be “Do you think this is forever?” Because, he can’t possibly know that now - neither do you. But, it is important to know if he is dating others and/or if he wants to progress this relationship with you. 

In my relationship, this was the moment when we had that discussion. This was the moment when the time we spent together started to increase (given, you are limited by other obligations but so did we). It was also the time when we both spoke about expectations - my expectation was to talk by text at some point during the day and then to say goodnight. He told me that he didn’t like texting, he preferred to talk by phone. He tried to meet my expectations (I tried not to be upset if he didn’t text me during the day). And, I tried to pick up the phone and tell him how nice it was to hear his voice occasionally...

Edited May 4, 2021 by BaileyB

[Gaeta]

In my opinion If you've been intimate it's time to address exclusivity. There is no right or wrong, there is only what you are comfortable with. I've read stories on here where people were ok to date for 3 months without addressing exclusivity. On my part I do not go above 4-5 dates without adressing it, usually after we've been intimate for the first time I will bring it up on the following date. 

If he agrees you 2 are exclusive still do some spot check online to see if he's still active. Remain on the defensive for a while. We live in a time where people lie with no scruples. 

[DatingMom]

Interesting that you bring this up. I honestly didn't even think about this: i.e. exclusivity or whether he's seeing other women still. I think it hadn't really crossed my mind because I really don't think that he is sleeping with anyone else. He's definitely in the demisexual category, and hence not really someone who would have multiple sexual partners. That being said, he might be chatting with some people online still (as am I, I guess), which isn't really the same in my opinion. In the past, I generally just let those things develop naturally: i.e. at some point you just know you're in a serious relationship. I can't remember actually ever having a conversation about it. Is that what people normally do?

[Gaeta]

That's what people do since online dating because of all the games and dishonest people you meet. You have to watch your back because no one else will. Establshing the parameters of your relationship is important especially if sex is involved. It doesn't mean you have to meet each other's parents but at least establish you are sexually exclusive. 

My opinion is when you're in a relationship, her or him have no business on dating sites chatting. By doing that you are advertizing yourself as single and looking. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Gaeta

[DatingMom]

@Gaeta I agree with the relationship part. I guess we haven't established if we are in a relationship yet. I thought that normally happens more around the 3-month mark?

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by DatingMom

[glows]

In the example of his question about your interview, just text back if he's available for a quick call. Then call him. That is what I would do. I certainly wouldn't be texting about the interview itself or carrying on a conversation (several texts) about it. I think it's rubbish to have the guy call you in all/most instances when dating or getting to know someone. 

I agree on the other comments about assertiveness but it doesn't mean dictating frequency of calls. Just redirect the conversation to a different method if a text comes up. 

You're still talking with others so there's no reason to bring up exclusivity if that's not what you're ready for. If you are interested in that, I'd do it in person rather than over the phone.